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Hochdorf
04-04-2009, 23:30
Ok, my plan is to make a magic-heavy Empire army. I hate gunlines, and all of the Empire armies I've seen are led by counts or grandmasters. I've never seen an Empire army led by a wizard lord (L8 being the obvious reason), but I want to attempt one.

Basically, I am already handy-capping myself by choosing a general with L8 and terrible close combat abilities. So, I want to maximize his other strengths. Namely, I need to decide on the best possible lore to use, and the best possible magic items.

This is where I need your help.

Magic is going to be playing a major part in the offensive (and defensive?) potential of this army. I've already mentioned the drawbacks: poor leadership and poor combat abilities of the general. So, I want to boost his positives: magic!

I need advice on what lore would be best to take of the eight available ones. Please tell me which ones you would consider the most effective for an Empire army that wants maximum magic effectiveness. And let me know if there are any lores I should absolutely stay away from too. FYI, the rest of my army will probably be a balanced mix of missile troops, combat troops, cavalry, and infantry. I'm only wondering about how to equip my general now.

Nurgling Chieftain
05-04-2009, 00:11
Empire Magic has two advantages: (1) You can pick any BRB lore and you don't have to do it at army list creation so you can, to a certain extent, customize based on who you're fighting, and (2) it's dirt cheap. Personally, I would be inclined to support the Wizard Lord with three level 2 wizards. For just 510 points you can have 10 levels of magic.

Selecting lores, as a topic, is far too large for one post. Check out the sticky thread at the top. Personally, I'm a big fan of Death Metal, and occasionally Light, but every lore has its strong points.

Hochdorf
05-04-2009, 00:23
Ok, I will keep that in mind.

Yes, I will probably max out all of my character slots on magic users.

Keller
05-04-2009, 03:22
I've played with all magic before in my empire. Its ok, but obviously unreliable. It is a bit more dependable in 7th Ed, now that ending the magic phase isn't quite so common on a miscast.

I would suggest keeping units large and utilize detachments in order to limit your panic liability. Also, Greatswords and Knights are already Ld8, so keep that in mind. Be careful with no fighty-chars to help deal with enemy soldiers. If you are lucky, you can weaken their CR enough before combat that you can sustain their wounds inflicted and still win.


All in all, a magic heavy army can work, but I find it a bit boring, due to the nature that it leads the army to play.

Makarion
05-04-2009, 03:50
Consider using the (2001 Albion Campaign DOW) Truthsayer. It's level 3 wizard hero with Ld 9.

Bies21
05-04-2009, 04:14
There is always the Arch-Lector on War Altar. 3 Bound spells a turn, 1 from Lore of Light. Generates 2DD.

I use the arch lector and 3 lv2s + rod of power, ring of volans, doomfire ring, 1powerstone and 2 Dscrolls.

Gives me 8-11PD +5 Bound spells and 7-10DD with 2 scrolls. Thats pretty offensive for Empire magic.

With the lord you can get up to 13PD so only two more and maxed at only 2 boundspells (3 if you take Orb of Thunder). So they end up being similiar in levels of magic while I have a ld9 lord.

Hochdorf
05-04-2009, 06:05
Well, I specifically want to make an army commanded by a wizard lord. My buddy uses an Arch-Lector, so I don't want to do that. The wizard lord is far and away the least used lord character (in my experience), especially as the army general. That's what appeals to me. I never like to take the common/easy road. :)

So, as I've decided to build a themed army on this basis, what I'm really looking for is how to maximize the potential of this particular build.

So, that brings me back to my original question... What lore is best suited to this task? I really like the style of the lore of Shadows, but the casting costs seem a little high. A lot of people have told me metal is good and life is weak. What are your experiences?

Commodus Leitdorf
05-04-2009, 11:29
As always with the Empire the lore selection can depend on the opponent. So you shouldn't limit yourself. Life isn't weak at all, but its effectiveness depends on the army your facing (Dwarfs really hate it).

If you want a Lore that will be good all the time against everyone, the default is always Fire.

-Commodus

bob_the_small
05-04-2009, 11:56
Well you could always try the common use of killy magic e.g = Fire, Death, Metal and in some cases Light.

What magic lore you choose depends upon what army you are playing.

For example

Wood Elves = Take Fire
Daemons = take Light
High Elves and Dark Elves = Take high strength spells and things that limit shooting
Beast of Chaos = Take Beasts (Funnily enough)
Bretonnia = Take Metal
Dwarfs = Take Life or shadow (shadow helps you get there faster)
Empire = Take high strength spells and thing that limit shooting - like fire, death and life.
Warriors of Chaos = Metal, Fire and Death
Lizardmen = Fire, Death
Ogres = Fire, Death
Orcs & Goblins = Take high strength spells and AOE spells - like fire and heavens
Skaven = Take high strength spells and AOE spells - like fire and heavens
Tomb Kings = Take Heavens and Light
Vampire Counts = Heavens and Light

This is just a rough guideline but it does depend upon what your opponent has in his army and where they deploy etc....

Hope this helps

BOB

Bies21
05-04-2009, 16:58
If you're set on a wizard lord then I wouldn't choose a lore. I'd choose depending on opponent.

Go with the +1 to cast arcane item (grey wand or wizards wand) and then max out on powerstones.

if you're taking 3lv2s then take, rod of power, ring of volans and doomfire and max out on powerstones. leave 1 wizard with scrolls.

12-15PD +2 bound and at least 3PS with 7-10DD with 2 scrolls.

Makarion
05-04-2009, 16:58
I'd actually use Beasts against Lizardmen. Those stegs, krox, and so forth suddenly are shut down if you aren't facing a Slann (who might well contest your magic phase after all).

Against Ogres and Skaven, Shadow and Death would be my choices. Skaven might be a good try for Life as well if there's terrain to work with (Rain Lord is good either way, obviously).

Hochdorf
05-04-2009, 17:11
Thanks for the advice everyone. I guess I will just have to convert multiple wizard lord models (I like them to look like their college!) and then choose which one to use based on the circumstances. Oh well, that will be a fun project anyway.

Bies21: Ya, I like the Grey Wand.

How about the Armour of Tarnus? Worth taking?

And what about mounts? Is it always best to go with a Pegasus for the wizard lord?

bob_the_small
05-04-2009, 17:32
Naa no pegasus, he's too vulnerable that way. What is the Armour of Tarnus?

Hochdorf
05-04-2009, 21:51
It's a 35 point magic armour that gives a 5+ save and wizard can wear and still cast spells.

Pegasus does make him vulnerable, but also gives him way more mobility.

bob_the_small
05-04-2009, 22:11
Its a risk...

Keller
05-04-2009, 22:51
How about the Armour of Tarnus? Worth taking?

And what about mounts? Is it always best to go with a Pegasus for the wizard lord?

The Armor of Tanarus is ok. It provides a 6+ AS and 5+ Ward, if I recall correctly. Could be combined with a barded-horse for a decent 4+/5+ save, which could help keep your wizard alive. I've never really used it much, but I don't really think I've ever had much problems keeping wizards alive in my Empire army. Those that would kill them, would do so anyway even with the armor.

I like Pegasus, but usually only on a second Lord. My general always needs to be near my troops. Even if he is only Ld 8 in this case, its still better than the Ld 7 of most units.

Bies21
06-04-2009, 02:10
I'd go with Keller on this one.

However it depends on how you want to play. TBH if you wanted a real strong empire phase then I'd get Balthasar Gelt.

If you want your lord to be aggressive then I'd go peggy.

If you wnt your lord to support your battle line and cast a few aggressive spells here and now (I mean magic missiles and the like). I'd go on a barded steed.

I can't remember if Tarns gives a ward or not I thought it was just a 5+ save, so if on a horse you'd have a 3+ however if it's a 6+/5+ then being on a horse with a 4+/5+ is probably the best way to go.

Commodus Leitdorf
06-04-2009, 13:46
How about the Armour of Tarnus? Worth taking?

And what about mounts? Is it always best to go with a Pegasus for the wizard lord?

the armour is worth taking if you plan on going all "warrior mage" with your lord. Take the armour, slap him on a horse with the Speculum and the Luckstone and you'll be good. The few times I used a Wizard Lord (I'm not a fan of magic...its tends to hurt me more then the enemy) I gave him the Speculum, Luckstone and the Holy Relic with the Lore of Beasts (for Bears anger. With that he can take care of himself. I wouldn't recommend putting him on a Pegasus as if your going for all wizards your leadership will be crap and your troops are going to leg it more often then not. You need him close to your troops, not flying around.

-Commodus

Chaos Undecided
06-04-2009, 14:53
Have to say I'm always unsure about being able to select schools of magic with Empire Battle Wizards at the beginning of the battle mostly because of the very strong background GW have established for the schools of magic in the Empire with each having their own established symbolism, favoured colors etc, personally I've got almost an entire line up of old battle wizards models from when they did one for each college which helps even less.

Can easily imagine the sort of look you'd get from a daemons or undead player when you declare you Wizard Lord all dressed in purple is in actual fact a member of the college of Light.

I suppose in a friendly game this wont usually be a problem, the alternative is bringing a Plethora of different colored mage models

Keller
06-04-2009, 15:08
Have to say I'm always unsure about being able to select schools of magic with Empire Battle Wizards at the beginning of the battle mostly because of the very strong background GW have established for the schools of magic in the Empire with each having their own established symbolism, favoured colors etc, personally I've got almost an entire line up of old battle wizards models from when they did one for each college which helps even less.

Can easily imagine the sort of look you'd get from a daemons or undead player when you declare you Wizard Lord all dressed in purple is in actual fact a member of the college of Light.

I suppose in a friendly game this wont usually be a problem, the alternative is bringing a Plethora of different colored mage models

I have a bunch of the different models, and some of the modern ones painted for specific schools. I tend to agree with you about selecting magic at list creation, rather than based on your opponent, but I always plan my magic to boost my army, not hinder the enemy. I generally take lores which I know will work with my list well (Beast, Light) or ones meant to do damage (Fire, occasionally Death) and the rest seldom get used because they are too situational.

If you do want to pick your lores based on enemy, and are worried about your model being out of place, just bring more models! Take all of your mages along and select the model for the lore you are using.