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Desalbert
05-04-2009, 03:41
Okay, so, I looked at my old collection of Orcs and Goblins, and I realized, that what drove me away from playing them years ago, was just that the Orcs were not unpredictable and silly enough for my Goblin loving tastes! So! I have been striken by a wild bout of enthusiasm to tailor my old army into a fluffy Gobbo and/or Night goblin force, but I need some clarity from advice.... I have a few questions:

-Can all types of Goblins be freely mixed into a Goblin tribe, ruleswise? Or does having a night goblin warboss limit one's options, for example? I'm hoping to leave myself with the most variety possible, so, I'd like to include all forest, common AND night goblins.

-Would doing the above be unfluffy though? If Goblin tribes are usually one or the other flavour, then I'll consider my options better, instead of hodge-podging.

- If I take a Goblin boss, is having a unit of Orcs out of the question (not that I would, but you never know)

- Would taking rock lobbas, spear chukkas and doom divers be frowned upon, fluff-wise, for a Goblin army? I really hope not, but I could see why, simply because there's Orc's whipping them, logic would state that the wipping Orc would probably try to become a warboss instead and not a slaver :P

- Would selecting things like Trolls and Giants be similarly undesirable in a fluffy army?

Finally, some other things: How does the Gobbo Boss on the Giant Spider fair? That looks excellent. I would like to purchase it, but I thought I'd get some advice first...

Can Night Goblins ever be painted in lighter colours? Like a gore-red, or a blue?


Basically, I have a million questions being new to the 7th ed, so ANY clarification and advice on starting a fluffy goblin army would be MUCH appreciated....

Thank you all very much for helping me out with this, and my eventual Ogre Kingdoms that I had so many responses from earlier! :D

PS: I would like to have to do zero converting with this force, because I'm just no good at it :p

-Des (potential Lordin' Gobbo) :D

Nephilim of Sin
05-04-2009, 03:54
The restrictions in 5th ed. were lifted, so you can have a 'night goblin' as your general, even if you don't have any 'night goblin mobs'.

Concerning the fluff angle, there was a great article in WD a few years back that discussed 'subjugated' tribes; basically, if you want to have a 'Night Goblin Army', you could still include Wolf/Spider Riders, etc, and just have them explained as a captured tribe, or one taken over.

The War Machines don't have to have an Orc bully (Rock Lobba, actually), so most have more trouble fitting them in an 'all orc army' as they are being crewed by gobbos, so having them in a Gobbo army is no problem. Even still, if you are feeling adventurous, check out some of the Plogs, especially Warlord G.G.'s early ToFP work from last year; he converted older NGs to ride wolves, and it looks great. Others have Squigs pulling chariots instead of wolves, but following the normal rules, etc. It really depends on what you want your army to look like, either 'pure' NG or a powerful NG tribe that has managed to take over others (the article showed how the subjugated tribes had iconography of the leading tribe, but still had their own symbols to reflect what they were). So, nothing you posted would actually be 'unfluffy', especially since you could come up with a good backstory for it.

Trolls? Yes! Definitely. As for the color schemes, again, that is completely up to you, but there is nothing that says they have to wear black cloaks, and again, there are many examples in the Project Logs were others have painted their NGs in different colors, and they look great.

Hope that helps.

P.S. Just saw your PS on the converting, but the Wolf Riders were from 6th that I saw, and fairly easy to do. Squig-pulled chariots would be a bit trickier.

Desalbert
05-04-2009, 04:07
Thanks a lot! That really did help! So if there is a mix of Goblin 'ethnicity', it would usually result from a subjegation/pacification of those other whelps? I suppose that makes sense, given that Goblins don't usually have the Orc mentality of gathering around a strong leader, so far as I can tell. Okay, this is interesting :)

You're right! I just checked, and indeed, no bully is required! Excellent! :D

I'm quite excited, now, I just need to decide whether I'll be a majority Night or Majority common/forest (I lump them together because forest essentially must need to be manifested by the common goblins box and painted differently, in terms of troops-- if I image it right)

Anyway, I ramble. Thanks a lot!

Keep the advice coming! :D

Shiodome
05-04-2009, 04:15
for game purposes, it's better to have a normal goblin general leading the mob due to having higher ld than a night goblin warboss. but leading a range of nightgoblin and normal goblin units. you can justify the normal goblin being in charge cos they bring all the spear chukkas, chariots, rock lobbas and wolf riders... namely the stuff that can be killy from a distance, or too fast for the other goblins to catch (i.e better at running away). suits the goblin mentality perfectly... the boss with the big hitty stuff and fast stuff for sneak attacks will be the king of the hill in any goblin horde :P

so block units of nightgoblins, supported by goblins warmachines and characters. with a sprinkling of squig based mayhem for added flavour.

Braad
05-04-2009, 07:10
It's nice to theme an army towards night, common or forest, but you don't have to. A large group on warpath tends to attract all manner of greenskin, so mixing in different tribes is just plain normal.
It could be cool though, to have different colour schemes and tribal icons accross your army, to make it looks as they are actually a few small tribes gathered together for a larger battle or conquest. For example, a few units of gobbo's, a big boss and a warmachine painted to match one tribe, a couple of wolf riders and chariots to look like another... same for night gobbo's.

Making one faction a majority... if you do that, make it the generals group, to show his tribe to be the largest and that way also explaining why he is in fact the general of the whole bunch.

As said, orc bullies can be just left out. And there are no goblin units that are ever considered unfluffy amongst the others, so you can really have a go at this one. It's also nice to include a pump wagon or two, and a giant or a few trolls for some added strenght.

If you like, you can mix in orcs too. Though maybe not big 'uns or black orcs, as one of them would likely go and kick the gobbo big boss's ass and take over. But it could be easy to imagine how such a big bunch of gobbo's gathered their strength and subjugated a small group of orcs, to have some muscle among their ranks.
You can do whatever you want. Every model in the army can be mixed with others, and I think the most important fluffwise considerations you should keep in mind if you go for a fluffy army are:
-the biggest orc will lead, so if you take black orcs, big 'uns or more than a unit of boyz, either an orc should be general, or you should take a really impressive gobbo boss (modelwise, or maybe Grom or Skarsnik)
-if you take a warmachine, squig or other special, I think you should include at least one corresponding big block of core, as this just looks better
-same for general. I never liked it when a single gobbo big boss is seen leading only night gobbo's.

In fact, anything backed up by a good story will do. It's that easy...

For converting forest gobbo's, my guess is that the night gobbo boxes are actually a better place to start. If you compare the size of the current night gobblins, their weapons and design to the spider riders, you'll see that they match up quite nice. My idea was to get a box, file of the top of their hoods so that they don't have pointy one, sculpt on a lot of feathers and stuff, and paint their robes in a camo-scheme.

What colour you paint your gobbo's is up to yours. I've seen sone very nice ones around here that had robes in red, blue or whatever.

About the gobbo big bosson gigantic spider, hopefully I'll be able to tell you soon. I just started painting a common gobbo to go onto a giant scorpion, for which I will use the gigantic spider rules, and started cleaning the bits of a forest goblin big boss on gigantic spider too. So I hope they do well, as I'll soon be in possession of 2...

Urgat
05-04-2009, 09:47
Thanks a lot! That really did help! So if there is a mix of Goblin 'ethnicity', it would usually result from a subjegation/pacification of those other whelps?

Not necessarily. Gobs (and orcs) tend to flock together, gathering around a successful boss. There's some headbashing at the begining, but once the tribe is powerful enough, the lesser tribes probably join without too much argument. Same dynamic as how a Waaagh grows, but more limited if it's not on the move.

As for the gigantic spider, no, it's bad. It doesn't cause terror (heck, it doesn't even cause fear) so no psychology help. It's weak as hell, a couple shooting sessions will put your goblin boss walking. Even if it gets in combat, it's... her, week as hell too. It hits like a wet trout. And, iirc it cannot join units, so no way to protect it, and it'll have to test for fear against a good half of the armies (that includes about anything from the elf lists).

Ultimate Life Form
05-04-2009, 09:55
If you like, you can mix in orcs too. Though maybe not big 'uns or black orcs, as one of them would likely go and kick the gobbo big boss's ass and take over. But it could be easy to imagine how such a big bunch of gobbo's gathered their strength and subjugated a small group of orcs, to have some muscle among their ranks.


Hmmm... I donīt know. Doesnīt it say somewhere in the Army Book Goblin Bosses are only in power until a single Orc steps by, realizes the gobbos have no leader, and takes over the bunch? And isnīt it the nature of the Greenskins to follow the biggest, strongest and loudest? It would take some genius or monster of a Goblin Boss to subjugate an Orc tribe, and even then, his power base would constantly be threatened.

Urgat
05-04-2009, 10:15
Hmmm... I donīt know. Doesnīt it say somewhere in the Army Book Goblin Bosses are only in power until a single Orc steps by, realizes the gobbos have no leader, and takes over the bunch? And isnīt it the nature of the Greenskins to follow the biggest, strongest and loudest? It would take some genius or monster of a Goblin Boss to subjugate an Orc tribe, and even then, his power base would constantly be threatened.

Well, the first quote does say "no leader" :D (I know I know, it implies "no orc leader")
All the fluff I've read about it since 5th edition points to tribes being led by the strongest greenskin. if your goblin bigboss is tougher than the orcs, he's DA boss, he'll club the orcs heads around, and gain even more respect for doing that while being a gob :p

O&G'sRule
05-04-2009, 13:55
Orc and Goblin armies in the fluff are generally lots of small warbands coming together under 1 warboss, so no using different types of goblin/troll/giant is not unfluffy. You could argue that you shouldn't have a goblin warboss with orcs but in the army, but this is a game so forget it.
I have night goblins in bad moon yellow cloaks and I think they look good so imo theres no problem with whatever colourscheme

mattschuur
05-04-2009, 15:00
I run an all common Gobbo army and my army is led by a Goblin Warboss. I occasionally take a mob of Orcs and even Black orcs and justify doing so by making the Gobbo hard as nails. I give him Martog's, Armor of Mork and boss at. That makes him a S5, T5 Gobbo. Even a Black ork Big Boss would have to be careful.

If some good fluff is written anything is possible. Your Gobbo leader could be leading a little waagghh! and some orcs joined up mostly to see the little git get stomped. I say do what you want first, make it make sense later.

matt schuur

Braad
05-04-2009, 15:16
Stats-wise, a gobbo big boss is (slightly) more powerfull than a orc boy, especially if he has gathered some magic items to aid him, and since stats are a representation of how powerfull (or not) an individual is, it seems that a gobbo can be better than an orc, even though its a rare thing. So personally I don't think it is too weird that a goblin boss leads a tribe with a few orcs. His position will of course be threatened, and if this situation lasts long is a second thing.

WarlockOMork
05-04-2009, 15:39
Yep either just keep the goblin boss's stat so high he could bash any orcs brain in that wanted to steal his position (or his mount could etc.), wouldnt be the first Tough gobbo to lead a big waaaagh!

or just claim he's so cunning he outsmarts any orc (that shouldnt be to hard of a feat) and trick them into doing their bidding, even tough they think theyr the boss.
or just outnumber them 20 to 1 etc,

feel free to put in your army what you want to put into it, and if it doesnt look right, add an aditional dose of imagination/Fantasy.

besides all that, i on occasion include some orc slaves.
(converted chained up orcs, pushing rocks for my catapults or such, or a small unit flailing about with their prison style balls & chains) (often those orcs got a bunch of goblins behind them with big Squig prodders) (effectively hiding behind the orc/prodding him forward. if something dangerous runs past, explaining their bravery)
(they figured out if it works on viscious dangerous squigs, it works on orcs, just as dangerous and probaly just as smart.)

scolex
05-04-2009, 19:51
All types of gobbos can be mixed, and yes it is fluffy. Skarsnik rules everything around the World's Edge Mountains (greenskin wise at least), bound to be some common/forest goblins that bow to him. Don't see why another Warlord elsewhere couldn't do the same.

I'd personally frown on taking Orcs (who needs the grots), but one could safely assume that Orcs have followed Skarsnik/Grom into battle. So why not your Warboss?

The goblin boss on a giant spider fares quite well. It was used in a GT winning all gobbo force, and there really isn't much of a harder test.

Whipping Orcs are an option on war machines, not mandatory. They would be very unfluffy though. I can't begin to imagine a Gobbo Warboss putting an Ork in charge of some of his boys.

Trolls and Giants are perfectly fine to take. I'd say a Goblin Warboss would be perfectly capable of recruiting/tricking/enslaving such a large creature. He would just use different methods as compared to his orc counterparts.

Night Goblin's cloaks can be painted any number of colors while remaining fluffy. Just remember it should be dark enough to keep the light from getting through.

swarmofseals
05-04-2009, 21:34
I agree with most of the above posters.

Also, if you wanted to include bullies in your war machines, I wouldn't object to using a gobbo model to represent them. Just make sure it looks more imposing than the crew!

With respect to taking orcs, I can see it being OK... just be sure to give your goblin general some orc heads as trophies to demonstrate that he's fought off some challengers successfully and cowed the rest of the orcs as a result.

Also, I'd suggest looking into Avatars of War figures to represent some goblin characters. They have some awesome, badass gobbos!

O&G'sRule
05-04-2009, 21:40
Skarsnik's fluff has him being the overlord or Karak eight peaks, and recognised as being as such by goblin and orc tribes alike, so its not out of the question

O&G'sRule
05-04-2009, 21:41
I agree with most of the above posters.


Also, I'd suggest looking into Avatars of War figures to represent some goblin characters. They have some awesome, badass gobbos!

I have all of them, the goblin king is alittle big imo but otherwise theyre great

Cypher, the Emperor
05-04-2009, 23:31
Its pretty SOP for goblin armies to take as many bolt throwers as possible, fluff be damned.

Shiodome
06-04-2009, 00:06
killing stuff from a distance, safe from retribution? what could be more fluffy for goblins? :D

Dai-Mongar
06-04-2009, 03:39
Skarsnik is probably the best choice for a goblin general. I use him in my gobbo horde, and I kid you not, over half of my opponent's army was delayed by his special rule!
Get plenty of squigs as well (hoppers and herds), they're surprisingly hard-hitting, and doom divers are great fun.

rtunian
06-04-2009, 14:59
you can't use a goblin to represent the orc bully, because the whole point of getting an orc bully is to ignore panic caused by goblins, and you can't say that a goblin bully is "inspiring" enough to ignore panic caused by other goblins... especially since a goblin warboss panics from other gobs (and a warboss is much more resolute than a bully)

a goblin can subjugate orcs though, usually through cunning, but occasionally through badassery.

imo, for a greenskin army to be fluffy, there have to be some grots to push around. when you have an orc force, the gobbos are for pushin around. but when you have a gobbo force, who gets pushed around? snotlings. you need snotlings! pump wagons are the most obviously useful snotling units, but you could field a few bases of snots to hold down a table quarter, or make a unit of 5-10 bases and send into combat... snots can tie up inf for a long time, and they are stubborn, so don't panic from 25% losses in a turn. they can still break though, and likely will fail any break test with their unmodifiable ld.4

the biggest, most important thing to remember, when fielding a goblin army is... you need numbers. if you field units of 20 gobs as your combat units, you will get smoked. you need 30-40 for your big combat units. you still use 20 for your gob archers and for your fanatic-only units.

night gobbos are singularly better suited for combat units, because of netters, but regular gobbos with shields are the best at combat if they have ng netters supporting in the same combat. ng gets shield for free, but gobbo has light armor for free. fighting to front, ng has 5+ armor save with hand weap & shield, gobbo has 6+ unless pays extra 1pt/model for shields, when it gets 4+ (again, to the front)

regular gobbos with shields will be better at combat to the flank, having 5+ armor save compared to 6+ that ng has. otherwise, regular gob and ng are the same concerning fighting at the flank.

for all gobbo army, it's usually better to get more gobbos than to buy expensive upgrades and magic items. yes, you can make your boss strong and tough, but in the end, it's still a gob. for the same points as it takes to make your boss a bit of a badass, you can field another full unit of gobs. perfect example is the gigantic spider. you can get the spider and a bit of an armor save and a couple of poisoned attacks, or you can get almost a full unit of gobs.

it depends on whether you want competitiveness or fluffiness more. don't get me wrong, a 'good' general can win with 'bad' builds, but that doesn't make 'bad' builds 'competitive'

Braad
06-04-2009, 17:24
I wouldn't take an orc bully and use a goblin to represent him... that's going indeed a bit too far, if you ask me.


I have all of them, the goblin king is alittle big imo but otherwise theyre great

I got all of them too. I mail ordered Grom's chariot from GW, threw the original Grom in my bits box and replaced him with Felix's goblin king. Excellent model! He's in my blog (see sig) if you are interested.