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View Full Version : Devil Dog tank vs. "Justice Pattern" Immolator



Vet.Sister
05-04-2009, 20:36
When I first looked at the DD in the new IG summary, I was pretty peeved!:mad:
But the more I look at it, I think it'll suffer the same fate the Immolator has suffered. Due to some unfortunate short comings, they don't get used very often. They look good on paper, but fall short on the table top.

While the DD has better front & side armor, it won't hit as often at BS3.
The Immolator can hit better with the twin linked MultiMelta, but is more fragile.
Plus the DD is 35 points more than the Immy w/ the twinkM.Melta load out.

Steel Legion for Life
05-04-2009, 20:38
It is a fast vehicle, which helps alot.

BS3 matters less when firing a blast as well.

I do feel it suffers in comparison to the Vendetta as a tank hunter, but hey, so does everything else.

MrBims
05-04-2009, 20:44
You are forgetting several things. The Devildog's melta is a blast weapon, so it's not significantly less accurate than the Immolator. Also, the Devildog may have a hull Multi-Melta to increase firepower. To further sweeten the deal, the Devildog is a fast tank, so it may move 12" and still fire one of the melta weapons, or move 6" and fire both.

The Devildog is vastly superior to the Immolator no matter how you look at it.

Vet.Sister
05-04-2009, 21:26
You are forgetting several things. The Devildog's melta is a blast weapon, so it's not significantly less accurate than the Immolator. Also, the Devildog may have a hull Multi-Melta to increase firepower. To further sweeten the deal, the Devildog is a fast tank, so it may move 12" and still fire one of the melta weapons, or move 6" and fire both.

The Devildog is vastly superior to the Immolator no matter how you look at it.

I thought the DD was a FastAttack choice, not a fast vehicle?

Steel Legion for Life
05-04-2009, 21:28
It's both a fast vehicle, and a fast attack choice.

All the Hellhound variants are. I still agree with you though, it won't see much use, as the Vendetta is clearly the superior option.

The armour is the same, but the vendetta can carry troops, is faster, ignore terrain as it moves, has three twin linked guns less dependant on Melta for efficacy and has scout, so it can Outflank. (eeek!)

You'll only use the Devildog for cool purposes; the Vendetta seems to me to do the same job, but better for the same cost.

Vet.Sister
05-04-2009, 21:37
It's both a fast vehicle, and a fast attack choice.

All the Hellhound variants are. I still agree with you though, it won't see much use, as the Vendetta is clearly the superior option.

The armour is the same, but the vendetta can carry troops, is faster, ignore terrain as it moves, has three twin linked guns less dependant on Melta for efficacy and has scout, so it can Outflank. (eeek!)

You'll only use the Devildog for cool purposes; the Vendetta seems to me to do the same job, but better for the same cost.

Hadn't looked at the vendetta, but this is what I thought would happen when I started to analyse what exactly the DD is capable of....

EDIT; I need to read the rules on firing blast weapons to see if BS3 is really minimized...

IAMNOTHERE
05-04-2009, 21:49
I've already converted a model to take advantage of this gun. It fits perfectly with my mechanicus themed IG and complements my hellhound as is.

I didn't realise it could also have a hull multimelta thoug, mine's running a heavy flamer instead - dual role.

I'm not that fuussed with the skimmers for this list, it's an armoured FORCE not a flying one.

rodmillard
05-04-2009, 22:08
I'm not that fuussed with the skimmers for this list, it's an armoured farce not a flying one.

Quoted For Truth

Vet.Sister
05-04-2009, 22:14
Just read the rules for firing blast weapons. The MeltaCannon isn't really more reliable than the twinkM.Melta, however, the fact that the DD can fire the MeltaCannon AND a hull mounted MultiMelta while moving 6 inches is the big advantage.... *sigh*
I am beginning to be annoyed at GW again!!!:mad:

MrBims
05-04-2009, 23:17
Just read the rules for firing blast weapons. The MeltaCannon isn't really more reliable than the twinkM.Melta, however, the fact that the DD can fire the MeltaCannon AND a hull mounted MultiMelta while moving 6 inches is the big advantage.... *sigh*
I am beginning to be annoyed at GW again!!!:mad:

You're annoyed that a codex designed to be competitive in 5th edition rules against other 5th edition codexes has superior flexibility and viability than a codex written in 2003 for 3rd edition rules?

What is especially face-palm-worthy about that is that we're talking about the Imperial Guard...

RichBlake
05-04-2009, 23:28
Will it be half strength if the hole isn't on the centre of the hull?

If it's full strength even with the hole off the hull then it's pretty awesome tbh.

Vet.Sister
05-04-2009, 23:51
You're annoyed that a codex designed to be competitive in 5th edition rules against other 5th edition codexes has superior flexibility and viability than a codex written in 2003 for 3rd edition rules?

What is especially face-palm-worthy about that is that we're talking about the Imperial Guard...

Nope! I haven't explained the source of my annoyance. I read through the IG Rumors IV thread and saw the stat line for the DevilDog tank.... It seemed (to me anyways) that it was custom made for Battle Sisters! However, now that it has appeared in the IG codex pretty much "as is" from the rumor thread, it means that the Battle Sisters won't be getting anything like it in their re-write because the tank is an "IG thing" and GW doesn't care for large amounts of duplicity between Imperial forces since 3rd edition.

I'm annoyed because the Devil Dog tank could have been a true piece of work for the Sisters, expanding the flexibility and viability of their army. But now the IG have it and the army that I personally like better (Battle Sisters) has once again been left to look into the restaurant window while others sup upon their very desire.:mad:

decker_cky
06-04-2009, 00:21
Just read the rules for firing blast weapons. The MeltaCannon isn't really more reliable than the twinkM.Melta, however, the fact that the DD can fire the MeltaCannon AND a hull mounted MultiMelta while moving 6 inches is the big advantage.... *sigh*

BS3 blasts will hit a vehicle about 50% of the time. So even with the hull multimelta, you aren't as reliable as a twin-linked BS3 multimelta, but you compensate with the chance at 2 hits, and the ability to hit something else on a scatter.

PapaDoc
06-04-2009, 00:46
I haven't explained the source of my annoyance. I read through the Chaos Space Marine Codex and saw the stat line for the winged sorceror with lash of submission.... It seemed (to me anyways) that it was custom made for Imperial Guard! However, now that it has appeared in the Chaos codex, it means that the Imperial Guard won't be getting anything like it in their re-write because the sorceror is an "Chaos thing" and GW doesn't care for large amounts of duplicity between Imperial and Chaos forces since 3rd edition.

I'm annoyed because the winged Sorceror with Lash could have been a true piece of work for the Guard, expanding the flexibility and viability of their army. But now the Chaos have it and the army that I personally like better (Imperial Guard) has once again been left to look into the restaurant window while others sup upon their very desire.


What makes you different?

MrBims
06-04-2009, 01:21
Nope! I haven't explained the source of my annoyance. I read through the IG Rumors IV thread and saw the stat line for the DevilDog tank.... It seemed (to me anyways) that it was custom made for Battle Sisters! However, now that it has appeared in the IG codex pretty much "as is" from the rumor thread, it means that the Battle Sisters won't be getting anything like it in their re-write because the tank is an "IG thing" and GW doesn't care for large amounts of duplicity between Imperial forces since 3rd edition.

I'm annoyed because the Devil Dog tank could have been a true piece of work for the Sisters, expanding the flexibility and viability of their army. But now the IG have it and the army that I personally like better (Battle Sisters) has once again been left to look into the restaurant window while others sup upon their very desire.:mad:

Alright, that makes more sense. I understand where you're coming from now.


I haven't explained the source of my annoyance. I read through the Chaos Space Marine Codex and saw the stat line for the winged sorceror with lash of submission.... It seemed (to me anyways) that it was custom made for Imperial Guard! However, now that it has appeared in the Chaos codex, it means that the Imperial Guard won't be getting anything like it in their re-write because the sorceror is an "Chaos thing" and GW doesn't care for large amounts of duplicity between Imperial and Chaos forces since 3rd edition.

I'm annoyed because the winged Sorceror with Lash could have been a true piece of work for the Guard, expanding the flexibility and viability of their army. But now the Chaos have it and the army that I personally like better (Imperial Guard) has once again been left to look into the restaurant window while others sup upon their very desire.


What makes you different?

The problem is that the Witch Hunters codex has a major focus on flame and melta weaponry. Vet.Sister means to say that the Devildog, as a fast tank carrying two melta weapons, would fit perfectly in a new Witch Hunters codex.

I think that it's unlikely for a new WH/Inquisition codex to not be able to take the Devildog in their standard force organization, and even if that turns out to be the case, the new codex will probably have something similar.

Vet.Sister
06-04-2009, 01:57
I haven't explained the source of my annoyance. I read through the Chaos Space Marine Codex and saw the stat line for the winged sorceror with lash of submission.... It seemed (to me anyways) that it was custom made for Imperial Guard! However, now that it has appeared in the Chaos codex, it means that the Imperial Guard won't be getting anything like it in their re-write because the sorceror is an "Chaos thing" and GW doesn't care for large amounts of duplicity between Imperial and Chaos forces since 3rd edition.

I'm annoyed because the winged Sorceror with Lash could have been a true piece of work for the Guard, expanding the flexibility and viability of their army. But now the Chaos have it and the army that I personally like better (Imperial Guard) has once again been left to look into the restaurant window while others sup upon their very desire.


What makes you different?

I suppose the main difference between myself and others on warseer, is that I actually chuckled with amusement as you deftly skewered my whiny rant.:)

EDIT: thanks for the kind words MrBims.

IAMNOTHERE
06-04-2009, 09:08
Quoted For Truth

Damn you for your eagle eyes rod, :mad: