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mukelnas
06-04-2009, 16:52
Latley I have been playing with a highly unbalanced force, but unbalanced in my opponents favor. You see, my Tau army was built for Apocaylpse, about 4500 points, and doesn't scale down well. Out of all those points I only have 18 fire warriors, and no kroot. (There is a good reason for this, but it's kind of a long story and not really the point of this post, if you are intrested in my strange army structure scrool down, but anyway.) I have been playing them at 2000 points and am severly handicaped when it comes to objectives, and still pretty bad at KP. Truthfuly I don't care. I love my army and don't mind loosing all the time, I still have fun, and when I do win it is great. I am worried how other people will react, So far I have only played my close friends, but I want to play people at my local club. I don't want them to feel like I am handing them a win. It's not like I don't try, it's just I make it very hard for myself.

I guess my point is, would you play a game just for the sake of playing even if you were guaranteed a victory?




Ok if you want to know why my Tau army is so strange here it is. For the most part I don't really like the tau. I don't like the fluff and I don't really care for their military orginization. What I do love are the battle suits, I find them strikingly simmilar to the mechs in the armored core video game series. That's what my army is based on. An extreamly elite force of mercinarie mechs and robots. I can feild over 30 battle suits of diffrent types, not to mention tanks and drones. In actual game terms it works very well in Apoc. Every suit is heavily converted and many of the classic designs and weapons from the video games are represented, like broadsides that ride on tank tracks. Many of my models use very few actual tau bits, but everything is easy to identify, for example a unit of gun drones made from epic scale falcons. Fluff wise, They are a group of space pirates who allied themselves with the tau only to stab them in the back and make off with a bunch of equipment and weapons. Now they work as mercinaries in exchange for technology used to upgrade and repair their pilfered alilen death machines

spaint2k
06-04-2009, 17:21
Hey, your army sounds cool and fun. I'm thinking of making a similarly (un)balanced army with Tyranids based on the Trygon and Raveners. I have no idea what they models are like in game-terms; I just like the figures.

Steve

The_Outsider
06-04-2009, 17:42
I guess my point is, would you play a game just for the sake of playing even if you were guaranteed a victory?



Yes - i've done it on many occasions - I enjoy the playing of the game, even if that has led to some games being analogous to a child being hit by a lorry at 70mph.

Giganthrax
06-04-2009, 17:53
I guess my point is, would you play a game just for the sake of playing even if you were guaranteed a victory?
Of course I would.

As The_Outsider said, I enjoy playing the game. However, playing against subpar lists also gives me a relatively forgiving ground where I can practice subpar tactics and field obscure units. If the opponent's list is really really bad (and there are people who bring chronically bad lists day after day in my LGS), I might play him just to try and wipe him off the table by turn 3 or something like that.

Blinder
06-04-2009, 18:14
It really depends on *why* I'm guaranteed a victory-
if someone's just phoning it in *again* and refusing to try something other than the "I've never played before but these guys are marines so they can beat you up so I'm gonna just charge" wannabe-tactics they've used for several months... I'm gonna do my best to not play that person. Not because it's an auto-win, but because it's just plain boring.

If someone's just learning, and playing with whatever they can scrape together (meaning I don't have to be the one scrabbling for points that game), and really doesn't have a chance... I'll gladly play them, and do my best to help them learn what does and doesn't work. Admittedly, I come from the "you can't learn if you win" school of thought so I don't throw too many intentional mistakes their way but I also do my best to not be an ass about it and have been trying to learn when to give "mulligans" if they flub something up on their turn (like shooting themselves out of the chance to assault). It does help that I'm at best passable at this game myself, so I don't have to worry as much about letting my competitive side get the better of me as I do in a couple other things...

Finally, if someone's doing something off the wall (as it sounds in the OP's case), it's probably going to be amusing even if they've set themselves up to fail, and they'll probably be trying to make the best of it so it isn't like they're just setting up and milling about.

I *would* suggest to the OP to find some acceptable "counts-as" options for the things that seem missing as far as the "list as written" goes- you talk about backstabbing mercenary types stealing tau tech, you could always go for a mix of the IG cadian plastics with tau guns and the occasional head (or firewarrior bodies with human heads/hands (feet?) if they stole the whole suit) and catachan with whatever for counts-as kroot. Dilutes the "stole all the best stuff" idea a bit but it lets you adjust your 40k lists so they work a bit better (and really, who's going to give the new guy all the shiny toys anyway...). Of course, the main idea is that it makes sure the people at the club you're looking to play at don't start mistaking you for player type 1, and there's also the fact that it *is* nice to win a game every once in a while ;)

Inquisitor_Tolheim
06-04-2009, 18:25
What, play an army with a unique style instead of yet another cookie cutter tournament list? HERESY! :D

Of course I'd play you. Furthermore, if I knew before hand that you were using a themey list I would feel much more comfortable leaving my box and using some of my units who never manage to see the table top. Which means I'll have the fun of actually playing my army differently then I normally do.

In my experience, fluffy themed armies that "gimp" themselves in favor of a concept tend to be more fun to play against, rather then less.


I *would* suggest to the OP to find some acceptable "counts-as" options for the things that seem missing as far as the "list as written" goes- you talk about backstabbing mercenary types stealing tau tech, you could always go for a mix of the IG cadian plastics with tau guns and the occasional head (or firewarrior bodies with human heads/hands (feet?) if they stole the whole suit) and catachan with whatever for counts-as kroot.

This is a good idea. In the words of the internets: Cool Theme + Cleverly Converted Models = Epic Win.

petpetpetpet
06-04-2009, 18:28
Balanced armies = boring.

Vepr
06-04-2009, 18:41
I have played an all warriors and gaunts list a few times just for fun. It looks impressive with all the spine, terma, and hormagaunts spread out in a swarming sea but even with three venom cannon totting warriors and a lictor the list has no real answer to heavy armor other than perfect roles from my CC warriors if they make it across the board. Still it is fun to pull out on occasion. :)

ehlijen
06-04-2009, 21:35
Might I suggest that you may actually end up being happier with some other game that suits your needs better? 40k is more or less all about the troops (ie FWs and Kroot) being supported by a select few specialist units; the mission structure is based on such armies and the points costs are assigned with such distribution in mind.

What you seem to like souns more like battletech or something similar (I'm sure most other mecha universes also have their own games).

I'm not saying you shouldn't play 40k, just suggesting to try something that I think fits your description of what you like better.

brightblade
06-04-2009, 23:27
I play unbalanced armies all the time. Got wiped off the board with my eldar the other day by BA and loved every minute! I just field my favourite models/units and have fun!:D

Damocles8
06-04-2009, 23:35
I've been doing this since I switched to Guard 3 years ago.....I used all deep striking Guard army......then an all light infantry army......then a mechanized company......then a grenadier company.......now I have all of the aformentioned.....plus an all drop pod Space Marine army.....

Skyrir
07-04-2009, 03:17
I always lose in apoc with my csm cuz I have only one land raider,10 terminators, and 2 obliterators as far as really powerful stuff is concerned. The rest is all plague marines & chaos marines. Works fine in standard scale games.

mukelnas
07-04-2009, 06:22
Might I suggest that you may actually end up being happier with some other game that suits your needs better? 40k is more or less all about the troops (ie FWs and Kroot) being supported by a select few specialist units; the mission structure is based on such armies and the points costs are assigned with such distribution in mind.

when I started this army 40k missions were structured very differntly. everything could capture objectives, except gun drones IIRC. In those days only a few missions really revolved around capturing things anyway. Mostly it was victory points, and getting into your opponents deployment zone. As the rules changed they saw more shelf time and less game time untill Apoc. came around.

If I want to play a "normal" army I use my 'Nids.

Tyndmyr
07-04-2009, 09:26
I don't honestly feel such a list is that unbalanced. Tau firewarriors are rather overrated. They have exactly one role...shoot stuff with a pulse rifle. At everything else, they are poor to terrible. Now, taking objectives is nice...but infiltrating kroot are better at it anyhow, and if you are fortunate enough to get an objective in woods, life is great.

Battlesuits and tanks are where the real tau strengths lie. I love broadsides in apoc because the sheer scale guarantees they will have sufficient juicy targets for their railguns. Shield drones or an invuln upgrade are essentially a requirement, of course. The amount of armor ignoring items about is insane, though cover can sometimes help.

But Im getting off track...lets look at a standard XV8 with a burst cannon and a missile pod. In comparison to an equally expensive quantity of firewarriors, the XV8 puts out the same number of rounds from 12-18". The ability to move and fire helps, as does JSJ. In addition, the missile rounds are superior to pulse rounds, so that offsets the rapid fire advantage a bit. In terms of toughness, they are not exactly equal, but an extra T and point of armor will make them at least as tough against small arms fire. Neither really has a chance against strength D templates and such, but the ability to hop behind cover is pretty useful.

I can't think of a lot of reasons to field firewarriors in quantity, and typically use only a single 12 man squad now. For the same points, kroot or suits are just as powerful, and more versatile.

TimLeeson
07-04-2009, 10:54
I love trying to win with weaker army builds! I usually make my own home-rules purposely underpowered as well because I love the challenge and it makes it feel more intense!

mughi3
07-04-2009, 10:59
To the OP-
it looks more like your going for fun fluff builds over brutal effective builds. there is nothing wrong with that.

As my admech "deathwing" themed list i am building can attest to.

Everybody gets enjoyment from the hobby in different ways. althoguh i think you can build both a fun list and a relatively competative list if you put your mind to it.