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Proiteus
06-04-2009, 21:55
Iíve got 3 armies at the moment each designed to provide a different gameplay style that makes each fun to play with. But for my fourth army Iím after something new, which is an elite army with a very small model count. Something that could be transported in a pair of sandwich boxes instead of a full sized games workshop case.

In regards to what codex to use I was first looking at Deathwing but then a Nob biker army at the GT finals got my attention.

So Iím now curious to know what other effective elites armies (with a small number of models) exist in 40k that I can choose to play instead of deathwing and nob bikers?

misterboff
06-04-2009, 22:05
Nidzilla has a small number of large models (Carnifex, Hive Tyrant), Eldar can have Wraithguard and Jetbikes as Troops, and you can have quite a small CSM army if you really go to town on upgrades/wargear.

misterboff

LonelyPath
06-04-2009, 22:06
Grey Knight armies are small and are elite, but they take some finesse to play effectively. I personally love my GK force. Since the most basic troop is very high you can't get alot for your points so the armies can be very small indeed. Also, the only transport they get are Land Raiders, but they ARE Land Raiders.

CrownAxe
06-04-2009, 22:07
Nidzilla has a small number of large models (Carnifex, Hive Tyrant), Eldar can have Wraithguard and Jetbikes as Troops, and you can have quite a small CSM army if you really go to town on upgrades/wargear.

misterboff
nids are far from "elite" army

Daemons tend to be on the elite side,

Daemonhunters are the definition of elite army, but being totally pew-pew-pewter is expenisive

CSM are elite style too

Oathwarden
06-04-2009, 22:14
Deathwing is probably the smallest model count army outside of nidzilla and even then nidzilla can out number them depending on how big they make their troop choices

jason_sation
06-04-2009, 22:25
I play Guard and am glad this thread exists. I'm trying to decide if it's possible to make an effective elite Tau army. If not, I may go CSM. (I'd like to go Grey Knights so that I could also ally them with my Guard, but that might get expensive when I try to branch out to a full force).

Lord Cook
06-04-2009, 22:37
If you wanted people to groan every time you put your army on the table, then Ork Nob bikers and Daemon Bloodcrusher armies both have very small model counts. However it should be noted that using something like a mass of Nob bikers will earn you zero respect from pretty much anybody.

For a more reasonable elite army, I would recommend Deathwing, Ravenwing, Iyanden Eldar, Saim-Hann Eldar or Battlesuit-heavy Tau.

misterboff
06-04-2009, 22:39
With Tau you could have 2 squads of 6 Fire Warriors and then lots of Battlesuits, but the FW's are quite fragile compared to the Troops choices for the other armies mentioned.

misterboff

Kyrios
06-04-2009, 22:47
That's why you put them in devilfish with disruption pods, potentially in reserve (potentially with positional relay) and make them alot harder to kill befor you zoom in on a late objective grab.

Axel
06-04-2009, 23:04
Elysian D-99 Inquisitorial detachement.

Not really "elite" as in Terminator Space Marines but as elite as mere humans can come. And you need the Anphelion project IA4 to play. If you field FWs Elysian models, they become an "elite" force in monetarian aspects, too :-)

Grimtuff
06-04-2009, 23:10
Just do a search, this question was asked about a week ago. The smallest model count army you can make is Orks with 9 models.

Guy McCool
06-04-2009, 23:18
A few good ones have already been mentioned. Wraith/Iyanden eldar, Deathwing and Grey Knights are both very point heavy and pretty resilient. I don't know how effective it would be, but a tricked-out Genestealer tyranid force, backed by some monstrous creatures, could be pretty small (depending on upgrades, Genestealers can be over 30 points each, but again, I don't know how effective this would be). Battlesuit heavy tau are a classic option, but can suffer in objective-based games. A necron force that was heavy on destroyers and heavy destroyers could add up the point totals pretty quickly as well, but has the same issues with objectives as battlesuit tau.

As primarily a Chaos player, I would suggest looking at them pretty heavily. Any of the cult troops can be fielded in squads that clock in at over 400 points for 20 models, and thatís mostly without weapon upgrades or champions. Daemon princes and lords with daemon weapons can be real beasts in close combat and are fairly point heavy. Extremely customizable terminators can also add in a 2+/5+ deepstriking punch, and can be somewhat customized with marks to add effectiveness and take up points. While not as quite as point heavy or reliable, possessed aren't a terrible option if you're just messing around, and the models are nice if you're one of the more aesthetically minded players. Chaos bikers can add a fast attack element as well. Of course, if you're into marines on bikes, you might want to look at the loyalist codex and taking a captain on a bike accompanied by all bikers, as the mounted captain allows bike squads of 5 or more models to count as troops.

Also on the Chaos front, while not easy to transport, you can make lists with 6 walkers and 3 monstrous creatures (assuming no upgrades), for just under 1000 points. You'd still need 2 troop choices to make it legal, but as I said before, cult troops can eat up points quickly. Hope this at least gives you some ideas.

Nym
06-04-2009, 23:20
Just do a search, this question was asked about a week ago. The smallest model count army you can make is Orks with 9 models.

All the armies in this thread overloaded on useless wargear. I think the OP wants an army with which he can actually win... :p

Maine
06-04-2009, 23:40
In regards to what codex to use I was first looking at Deathwing but then a Nob biker army at the GT finals got my attention.

A note about Nob Biker lists - they are an undercosted unit that can be built in a way that is abusive with the wound allocation rules (I'm not getting into an argument here - that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it), if you take each Nob Biker with a different wargear option. This would be a WAAC list, and something to take if your goal is to win with a few models, rather tha play a fun game - you won't get many opponents agree to repeat games against that. It's those kind of lists that tend to place high in GT finals, but those are places where you can't necessarily refuse your opponent because you feel they are playing a broken/cheese list (and also why I feel that nothing of value was lost by cancelling of US GTs this year means).

Now, with that said, you can build Nob Biker list without abusing the wargear options (and thus without running off every opponent you play). Do that, and I think you'll have a small elite list that you and your opponents may enjoy.

If I personally were going for an elite, small but game-worthy force, I'd go Deathwing, Ravenwing, or Grey Knights.

Giganthrax
07-04-2009, 01:32
Deathwing all-terminators comes to mind.

Also, ravenwing, gray knights etc.

Dual lash, 9 obliterators lists also don't have get too many models. :D

captainramoz
07-04-2009, 01:36
I've found a way to make and ork 2000 points list with 53 models.
Not bad e quite an elitist ork list

imweasel
07-04-2009, 01:59
I've found a way to make and ork 2000 points list with 53 models.
Not bad e quite an elitist ork list

I've seen someone do it with 22 models.

It's fairly fragile though...

Shangrila
07-04-2009, 02:08
I have a tau force of the Farsight enclave. With the possibility to take over 20 battle suits in a list it fits your low model count requirement but wont fit in a lunchbox.

A pure Grey Knights force is also low model count, and would be even lower with Termie heavy or LR's.

captainramoz
07-04-2009, 02:18
I've seen someone do it with 22 models.

It's fairly fragile though...

Mine is a 30 ard boyz mob with grotsnik so they earn cibork bodies for 150 point
And two units of powerclawed nobs:D

tacoo
07-04-2009, 02:22
Iíve got 3 armies at the moment each designed to provide a different gameplay style that makes each fun to play with. But for my fourth army Iím after something new, which is an elite army with a very small model count. Something that could be transported in a pair of sandwich boxes instead of a full sized games workshop case.

In regards to what codex to use I was first looking at Deathwing but then a Nob biker army at the GT finals got my attention.

So Iím now curious to know what other effective elites armies (with a small number of models) exist in 40k that I can choose to play instead of deathwing and nob bikers?

sounds like you just explained Grayknight in a nutshell, as long as your skilled or can get good quick with them. they requir some skill against most opponents but in the end are alot of what you just said

-25 pts a model insures that there is no swarming going on.
-what doesnt sound funner then the shrouding, which i just think of one squad teleporting in and the whole enemy getting blinded from the sun reflecting off there armour
-i think they sound really fun and if i had more money i would maybe start collecting them, but i already have 2 babies, my necrons and daemons

Remoah
07-04-2009, 02:57
GK Pure list.
Not many people play them either, so they'll be off-guard when you put them down.
and they're stormbolter, force-weapon toting marines with a grudge against anything that doesnt pray 18 times a day...

TheDarkDuke
07-04-2009, 04:28
Well you can seriously get a small force (model count) in pretty much any army.

-DH are your main small force, not many GK and your at a full force quick maybe 25-30 models.
-SM can get some big pricey HQ's add in two troops, and some Sternguard. I have made a BT army with under 40 models and a Vanilla under 40 models.
-Ork grab two Warbosses deck them out and take two decked out mobs of nobs and you can easily be at 1000 points, even more if you take Nob bikers(but people will cry and yell at you). Meganobz can do this as well.
-Eldar never a large army to begin with, take some of the more pricey units and you will haver under 40.
-CSM stick to pretty much just troops choices with weapon options and you don't have a large army. My 1500 point DG have 38 models, 2000 point only added 15 more models.
-Nids look out its Nidzilla!!!!! Can have an under 30 model count for a 1500 point army.
-Necron can't get crazy small but never are really that large, you could field an under 40 model count.
-Tau if you go Crisis Suit heavy you can an under 40 model count.
-IG look to be able to field small armies of 1 Lord, 20 Vets and some big pricey tank squads, may be close but I think you will be able to get under 40... maybe 50.
-WH with expensive HQ and some assassins can be fairly low model count, not 100% sure but I think you could get a under 40... maybe 50.
-DE im not too sure about, but I think they are around the WH/Necron/IG for a slightly higher model count but still rather small force, really not sure on this one, but should be able to at least get under 50.

All of my judgements are based off of 1500 point armies, and a small force being a max of 40 models.

Bassik
07-04-2009, 10:05
I find Deathguard works realy well as a small elite army. With about 40-50 models, you're done painting realy quik, and the model's toughness ensures that they pull their weight.

DarkPrince
07-04-2009, 10:39
Tau is quite elite. Expeccialy with lots of Stealths. My army's pretty Stealth heavy and it's fun and strong

mughi3
07-04-2009, 10:55
Alot of the standards have been mentioned for theme-atic forces. the reality is that any time you take very expensive units they are generally going to be very killy and signifigantly reduce th overall size of your army.

my 2k DIY marines list runs 6 dreads(3 ven/3 ironclad) and has a wopping 35 models including the 3 pods. on the otherhand my new DW list has 23 (compared to my other list that has 19).
There are some builds that are obviously more competative and some that are just small.

It really depends on what your after.

DarkPrince
07-04-2009, 11:07
My Space Marine Captains and Chapter Master all add up to 1500 points between them. For 11 models

Grazzy
07-04-2009, 11:24
One option that does not seem to have come up is bike eldar.

A few fast troops and then 2 killer bike councils that are nearly impossible to kill.

Awilla the Hun
07-04-2009, 12:34
Compared to the new codex, I would say that the Imperial Guard were a small, elite army. Especially the Mounted Grenadier armies.

Codsticker
07-04-2009, 15:26
I am working on an all-infantry Grey Knight army led by by the Deathwatch HQ from an ancient White Dwarf issue. I plan to max out on Elites and HQ choices: that should keep the model count low. :)

Lord Cook
07-04-2009, 18:09
One option that does not seem to have come up is bike eldar.

For a more reasonable elite army, I would recommend Deathwing, Ravenwing, Iyanden Eldar, Saim-Hann Eldar or Battlesuit-heavy Tau.

Great minds think alike.

the1stpip
07-04-2009, 18:21
If you want a small army, Adam, you need something like Gareth's SM army.

3 LRR, Pred, 2 5 man squads of marines, Vulkan, Chap, 5 THSS Termies

And that is quite sick.

Grimtuff
07-04-2009, 23:10
If you want a small army, Adam, you need something like Gareth's SM army.

3 LRR, Pred, 2 5 man squads of marines, Vulkan, Chap, 5 THSS Termies

And that is quite sick.

There's no Vulkan in the list. (unless he's dropped the 2 Razorbacks and a truckload of other stuff)

Proiteus
07-04-2009, 23:30
If you want a small army, Adam, you need something like Gareth's SM army.

3 LRR, Pred, 2 5 man squads of marines, Vulkan, Chap, 5 THSS Termies

And that is quite sick.

True a heavy vehcile list would be very interesting and provide a new type of gaming style so it is tempting, however you know how much I'm against copying or making similar lists of armies that are already being used at the club!

monopeludo
08-04-2009, 00:01
I played some weeks ago a game between my DH 45-50 model army Vs a GK really low count army. He destroyed me with ease by playing very agresively. I couldent deal with so many armour(and I made some bad choices), and he only unleashed the GKPA when they where safe after swallowing one of my units.
GK low count army:
3xLRC
Great Master Inc
4xGKT Inc
5xGKPA 2xInc
5xGKPA 2xInc

So I'd go for GK or deathwing (A full terminator armour army is just great)

brassangel
08-04-2009, 00:04
nids are far from "elite" army

Daemons tend to be on the elite side,

Daemonhunters are the definition of elite army, but being totally pew-pew-pewter is expenisive

CSM are elite style too

Daemonhunters are one of the worst tournament armies, statistically, in existence. Sometimes the 2-3 Land Raider, 2 Brother-Captain + retinue army can be good.

'Nidzilla is one of the only tournament armies that can force concessions regularly on turns 3-4 in big events.

Daemons are poo in 40k.

I have no idea where you are getting your info from, but a lot of the tournament stats suggests the opposite of what you've told the OP.

tuebor
08-04-2009, 00:43
Daemonhunters are one of the worst tournament armies, statistically, in existence. Sometimes the 2-3 Land Raider, 2 Brother-Captain + retinue army can be good.

'Nidzilla is one of the only tournament armies that can force concessions regularly on turns 3-4 in big events.

Daemons are poo in 40k.

I have no idea where you are getting your info from, but a lot of the tournament stats suggests the opposite of what you've told the OP.

He doesn't mean elite as in "good in tournaments" he means elite as in very few models, which incidentally is exactly what the OP was asking about.

tacoo
08-04-2009, 01:41
and whats this "daemons are poo" stuff, i play chaos daemons and the main people i loose against (that dont use cheesy/broken list) are tau, ig, and hordes (and probably GK if someone up at the club played them). my daemons break through anything that doesnt swarm me and when against tau/ig, it usually very close.

that is unless poo is a refernce to nurgle being awsome

A1TEC
08-04-2009, 04:15
Grey Knights or Deathwing

the1stpip
08-04-2009, 07:44
If you don't like copying, choose Dark Angels, and go Ravenwing!

Oh, and he had Hest'an when I played him. His Rhino tank shocked a unit of Warriors on the last turn, made them run, and he won by 1 KP..!

Proiteus
08-04-2009, 09:01
If you don't like copying, choose Dark Angels, and go Ravenwing!

Oh, and he had Hest'an when I played him. His Rhino tank shocked a unit of Warriors on the last turn, made them run, and he won by 1 KP..!

LOL :evilgrin: Also if I wanted a biker army I may as well go with the nob bikers as they have the toughness and saves to survive being shot at.

But Deathwing seem the best suited, the only problem I have with them is the fact they can be so easily brought down with lots of small arms fire, all i need to do is roll 5 1s and the squads dead? How about a jump back Blood Angels army with a death company squad leading the charge?

Also just to let everyone know my current armies are: Death Guard, Imperial Guard and Tzeentch based Daemons. All very well balanced lists.

Grazzy
08-04-2009, 10:02
Daemons are actually a very good tourney army - they place quite well.

Daemons can do small model count armies aswell - a few monstrous creatures and soulgrinders backed up by some nasty daemons gives you a small force which hits like a ton of bricks.

gigglyjoker
08-04-2009, 12:10
Why was the US Grand Tournament cancelled?

mughi3
08-04-2009, 12:22
Well if you want small you could always go classic DA build-
X2 land raider
X1 land raider crusader.
X3 5 man squads of DW terminators
belial
and one other special character of your choice. librarian, chaplain etc...

That was a staple for many a mechanised DW army.

gigglyjoker
08-04-2009, 13:30
I played some weeks ago a game between my DH 45-50 model army Vs a GK really low count army. He destroyed me with ease by playing very agresively. I couldent deal with so many armour(and I made some bad choices), and he only unleashed the GKPA when they where safe after swallowing one of my units.
GK low count army:
3xLRC
Great Master Inc
4xGKT Inc
5xGKPA 2xInc
5xGKPA 2xInc

So I'd go for GK or deathwing (A full terminator armour army is just great)

Since when could Grey Knights take Land Raider Crusaders?

Necromancer2
08-04-2009, 13:41
I was going to suggest DG.. my list has 35 models with 2 LR at 2000pts. ;)

But if you want something new.. Nob Bikers or some sort of Eldar/Raven Wing force sounds like the list your looking for. They play fast and have low models. Or you could go and Honour Guard heavy SM force which would be really low.

gigglyjoker
08-04-2009, 13:50
Vanguard Veteran heavy SM force. Muahaha.

monopeludo
08-04-2009, 16:51
Since when could Grey Knights take Land Raider Crusaders? GK can get LRC. 100% sure. In fact you need a GK hero (Brother captain o master) to get one. Check the codex.

And I prefer LRC over LR any day, for my DH (Except against armoured company).

Grazzy
08-04-2009, 19:43
Of course GK get the Crusader. It is different from the normal one though as it has an assault cannon that has only 3 shots and no rending but can move 12'' and then fire the hurricanes.

Proiteus
09-04-2009, 23:18
Heres something thats both nasty and small a deamon army with at least 3X5 Bloodcrusher units each for the same cost as a terminator!

Don't worry about the cost as I'll most likely convert giant khrone warriors to represent them :D

cuda1179
10-04-2009, 03:13
The smalledst legal army I can think of consists of 4 models. Two ork Mekboys and two Deff Dreads. Add in 9 killa cans and a unit of 'Ard Boys and you have a REALLY hard anvil. Add in a unit of Nob bikers and you have a good hammer. Trap enemies between the slow moving wall of armor and the quick, hard-hitting nobs. Use the Mekboys with Shock attack guns for fire support. 30-35 models in total for this list, I think. It should fit into a couple shoe boxes.

Khornate Fireball (Ork)
10-04-2009, 07:43
Just do a search, this question was asked about a week ago. The smallest model count army you can make is Orks with 9 models.

Wait, why nine? Couldn't you use two Warbosses, then two three-Ork Nob squads? Isn't eight the minimum?

cuda1179
10-04-2009, 07:48
Wait, why nine? Couldn't you use two Warbosses, then two three-Ork Nob squads? Isn't eight the minimum?


Nope, as I stated in the previous post, four models is the minimum. Two Meks and Two Deff Dreads.

Somerandomidiot
10-04-2009, 15:25
Nope, as I stated in the previous post, four models is the minimum. Two Meks and Two Deff Dreads.

However, neither of those two lists make a 1700pt army, which was what the 9 model list was created to answer.

40kdhs
10-04-2009, 18:08
GKs = small number + elite army. Nobody does it better than GKs.

Heretic12
10-04-2009, 19:41
Heres something thats both nasty and small a deamon army with at least 3X5 Bloodcrusher units each for the same cost as a terminator!

Don't worry about the cost as I'll most likely convert giant khrone warriors to represent them :D

A dude at my local GS runs a Bloodcrusher force. Its earned him abit of disdain however I played it last week and had the win until I got bored and threw my remaining troops into the grinder :evilgrin:

Anyhow at 2k his list goes down like this:
2x Blood Thirsters
1x Daemon Prince
3x 8 Bloodcrushers
2x 8 Bloodletters

If he hadnt been rolling unsually low (for him) I wouldnt have come as close as I did, the crushers can demolish anything they hit on the charge and having 8 of them with 2 wounds each sporting furious charge and power weapons deffinatly hurts.

However there is a major weakness to this army depending on whos fielding it, with that low model count its very easy to stack up wounds and make em drop by sheer volume of saves to be made. Also crushers cant hurt Dreadnaughts with out getting the charge, so if your opponent knows what he is doing he can quite possibly take a unit (or two or three) out of the game indeffinatly. Cause when you consolidate around em you will eventually block off any of your other units from joining combat.

But if you get past that, they are a brutal army with low model count and earns you the favor of the blood god.

Forlorn
10-04-2009, 20:18
2000pt DeathWing Army

30 Termies including a Command Squad with standard and apothocary, 2x Assault Cannons, 2x Missle Launchers, Interrogator Chappy, Belial, 1 Landraider.

templersstorms
10-04-2009, 21:15
I have always been a fan of the Eldar, but they are very expensive. It is more difficult, but not impossible in the new codex. My old list had 18 models (including vehicles) for either 1500 or 2000.

Oberst Viktor Morte
11-04-2009, 00:31
Armoured Company. If you do it right, you can fit like four models into a 1700 point list.

gigglyjoker
12-04-2009, 19:40
I'm thinking of collecting a Grey Knights army. It'll probably include a Land Raider (lascannons) and Dreadnought (lascannons/missile) for anti-tank, but I'm thinking of supplementing that with a Sisters of Battle Dominion squad with 4 meltaguns in an Immolator with multi-melta.

Even though heavy support units may not be taken as allies, is it okay to take the Immolator since it is a dedicated transport for the Dominion?

monopeludo
12-04-2009, 20:29
I'm thinking of collecting a Grey Knights army. It'll probably include a Land Raider (lascannons) and Dreadnought (lascannons/missile) for anti-tank, but I'm thinking of supplementing that with a Sisters of Battle Dominion squad with 4 meltaguns in an Immolator with multi-melta.
Seraphim work better IMO. Inferno pistols, eviscerator and small squad size.


Even though heavy support units may not be taken as allies, is it okay to take the Immolator since it is a dedicated transport for the Dominion?
Yes, it's ok.

gigglyjoker
12-04-2009, 20:51
Don't you think the Dominion would get into position to use their anti-tank weaponry faster than the Seraphim? 5-6 girl Dominion squad so small squad?

druchii
12-04-2009, 21:01
An ork army made up primarily of Mega Armored Nobz in Battle Wagons will get you lots of respect, and it'll be small. And actually pretty good.

Another small elite army would be a Master of the Forge, 6 dreadnought army. Very cool, and very unique army.

Another is an all Biker Marine army (ravenwing or codex)-you can get away with about 30-40 models in a 2k army.

You've also got the eldar-zilla list, avatar, four wraithlords, a unit of wraithguard and whatever else will get you 2k real fast.

Greyknights are another option, but they're really on the much lower end of the power curve. I also think they've got the least neat looking models of all the lists I've posted, the least room for creative conversion, and everyone sees you put em down, and will know almost exactly what to expect.

You could do a khorne-ish demon army, 3x4 bloodcrushers, a pair of Thirsters, some grinders and a few squads of Plague Bearers or bloodletters.


d

LonelyPath
12-04-2009, 21:20
Greyknights are another option, but they're really on the much lower end of the power curve. I also think they've got the least neat looking models of all the lists I've posted, the least room for creative conversion, and everyone sees you put em down, and will know almost exactly what to expect.

I think the GK minis are among some of the best sculpts out there, though I may be being bias since I love playing DH, lol. You can also make GK out of plastic SM with some creativity, green stuff and plasticard. Not to weak either when oyu look at the other thread with the Tourny rankings on there, DH got a proud 6th or 7th (I forget exactly).

fivehole05
12-04-2009, 21:34
nid zillas very small

also necrons can be small

gigglyjoker
12-04-2009, 22:13
6 dreadnoughts you still need troops.

Ben
12-04-2009, 22:22
You want armies with low model count expensive troop choices. Deathwing are one example, but something I'm tempted by is bikerboyx.

Wazdakka plus Warbos with klaw on bike plus one unit of bikernobz plus a couple of units of bikerboyz. You want an all scoring fast moving army, and by not going all nob biker everyone won't hate you.

Proiteus
12-04-2009, 22:30
You want armies with low model count expensive troop choices. Deathwing are one example, but something I'm tempted by is bikerboyx.

Wazdakka plus Warbos with klaw on bike plus one unit of bikernobz plus a couple of units of bikerboyz. You want an all scoring fast moving army, and by not going all nob biker everyone won't hate you.

So far those are my two options Deathwing or Nob Bikerz and I must say to have a cheese army of my own is very tempting.