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View Full Version : New IG codex question: Valkyrie/Vendetta/Vulture?



Tonberry
07-04-2009, 10:57
Why did they create the Vendetta instead of just putting the Vuklture into the new codex, don't they serve the same purpose (i.e. gunship?).

Is it just so the plastic kit could come with a single body design, due to the difference of shape of the Vulture?

chromedog
07-04-2009, 11:25
It gives you a psuedo vulture.
Valk with the firepower of a vulture.

FW vulture has more newer options, too.

Solar_Eclipse
07-04-2009, 11:34
The Vulture is a Gunship, The Vendetta is an anti armour variant of the Valkyrie, They are both different things.

Bloodknight
07-04-2009, 11:38
I think the mani point is that they wanted to include a vulturesque option in the codex, but did not want to change the vulture's design to the new Valk pack, and thus created the Vendetta. The Vulture looks pretty different to the Valk.

RCgothic
07-04-2009, 12:43
The vulture does have its roles.
The possibility of a twin-linked punisher cannon variant seems extremely scary.

Zanzibarthefirst
07-04-2009, 15:12
with vendettas having 3 tl lascqannons, the tradition roles of the Vulture are gone. I was always plannig on having a vulture with tl autocannons and racks of hunter-killer missiles to take armour out but i'd rather just use a vendetta now, a vulutre is going to be purely anti-infantry with punisher cannons and heavy bolters. THe punisher cannon might still be able to take out tanks though i woudlnt like to bet on it, has anyone ran the mathshammer on a tl punisher cannon vs side armour?

RCgothic
07-04-2009, 15:38
AFAIR The Vulture has always been better at anti-infantry than the valkyrie.

Treadhead_1st
07-04-2009, 15:46
The options available mean all the skimmers/flyers are now multi-role.

Ie, you can have a Valkyrie with Multi-Laser, Hellstrike and Door Gunners, fly in an pop a tank (remembering the bonus versus armour the Hellstrikes get) then hunt down Infantry, or use the ML/HBs on rear-armour. Or, you can equip it with Rocket Pods and hunt down hordes.

The Vandetta can do the same - eliminate tanks with 3xTL Lascannon, or it can swap two of those for Hellfury Missiles. Since these missiles ignore cover, they are excellent for clearing objectives and killing Lootas etc that are gunning for the rest of your army. After that you can hunt infantry with the HBs, and you still have a single TL Lascannon for any tanks that stray across your path.

The Vulture is the most multi-role of the lot, especially with the new FW kits they're producing. Multiple hardpoints mean you can specialise it to a single role (hunting tanks with lascannon AND hellstrike, hunting infantry with Rocket Pods AND Autocannon/Punisher Cannons) or mix the roles (Rocket Pods and braces of Hunter-Killer/Hellstrikes for an Apache-esque multi-role ground attack craft).

So really all can be adjusted for your needs, especially with the addition of door gunners on the Valkyrie/Vendetta. But the Vulture still provides more options in terms of versatility and specialisation (particularly at anti-tank if you want the funky Hellfury Missiles on the Vendettas).

SPYDER68
07-04-2009, 15:48
I imagine the Valkyrie is going to lose the Hellfury benefit vs tanks due to its not a flyer.

Treadhead_1st
07-04-2009, 16:10
I imagine the Valkyrie is going to lose the Hellfury benefit vs tanks due to its not a flyer.

What?

Hellfury Missiles are available to Vendettas, and ignore cover.

Hellstrike Missiles are available to Valkyries and have Ordnance in their "weapons type".

This is of course assuming they do still get Hellstrikes, and not Hunter-Killers (rumour summary and GW manager say Hellstrikes, I need a second look at the codex to check).

Both are part of the weapon rules, and not dependant on what mounts them. Valkyries are still flyers "in the fluff" they are just Skimmers for non-Apocalypse-game-mechanics, and ergo the justification of needing to be on Flyers for Hellstrikes to work properly is still valid.


As to the op:

See my last post, in additon:

The Vendetta is an up-gunned Valkyrie, but it still has the option to transport troops. The Vulture is up-gunned once more (depending on how you want to kit it out) but costs you the Transport ability.

It also means you can have 6 Valkyries (for 2x minimal Platoons), 3 Vendettas (for CHQ and 2x Storm Troopers/Veterans) and 3x Vultures (fire support)...provided you have enough cash/points to fit it all in. The Valkyries are a stand-in for Chimeras, Vendettas for Hellhounds&co and Vultures for Leman Russes, so you can take a fully Airborne force without having to take any land-based vehicles to support them.

laudarkul
07-04-2009, 18:22
I saw them as Ah-64D Apache, UH-60 Blackhawk and MH-60 Blackhawk. A variant for attack, a variant for transport and a variant for transport/gunship. They should complement each other and could makes possible an AirCav Regiment in 40k/Apocalypse.

Xenobane
07-04-2009, 19:46
THe punisher cannon might still be able to take out tanks though i woudlnt like to bet on it, has anyone ran the mathshammer on a tl punisher cannon vs side armour?

Well that rather depends what side armour you're talking about, doesn't it? It's going to do sweet FA against AV12. Against AV11 you would expect just less than 2 glancing hits per cannon, between 2 and 3 if it was twin-linked. Against AV10 you'd get that many penetrating hits, and the same number of glancing also.

Maine
07-04-2009, 20:37
Valkyries can be Fliers if using the IA datasheet; they can't if using the Codex entry (they are about 33% less expensive in the Codex than the IA:A sheet, probably in part to compensate for the lack of protection and extra shooting being a Flyer provides, in part because FW units tend to be overcosted).

Vendettas have no IA datasheet yet, and so unless you make your own, they aren't Fliers. After adding an appropriate price premium to be Flyers, the Vulture looks like a better deal...

Vultures are mostly meant to be Fliers. The extra protection (decrease enemy shooting range, only hit on 6s, no template weapon hits) plus always counting as stationary when firing, is a huge benefit. There won't be any fast moving/deep striking Vendettas opening up with 3 TL Lascannons on the same turn they appear, but a Vulture can drop nearly anywhere on a table and pump out a lot of firepower in a heartbeat.

I'm talking in context of standard games, not just Apoc here. IA6 officially replaces the Forgeworld Flyer rules to use the same ones from Apocalypse, and Imperial Armour: Apocalypse is the official replacement for IA Update 2006 (that is, it's not for Apoc only)

invinciblebug
07-04-2009, 20:40
Valkyre: Transport with anti inf weapons.

Vendetta: Transport with anti tank weapons.

Vulture: Gun ship with mostly anti inf weapons.

Spacker
07-04-2009, 20:49
I think the mani point is that they wanted to include a vulturesque option in the codex, but did not want to change the vulture's design to the new Valk pack, and thus created the Vendetta. The Vulture looks pretty different to the Valk.

However at the FW open day on Sunday the new Vulture body was on display - this looks like it will be bundled with the Valkyrie wing and weapon sprues in the near future replacing the current all resin Vulture kit, and should reduce the price. It's also lighter as the body is hollow rather than made up of solid resin parts.

Finally my Air Cav army will be fully mobile, it's had to suffer only 3 Valks as transport so far (backed up with Vulture, Thunderbolt, and Lightning as heavy options) and have the rest of the force deploy via Deep Strike. :D