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Ultimate Life Form
07-04-2009, 14:28
Well, as by Braads request (so you can´t blame me:p), this is a thread for people to discuss the creation of a Warhammer "Horde". Since it involves a great number of areas, we thought the general discussion was the place to post it. If you don´t know the Warcraft series, or don´t want to add anything of value, you´re wrong here, and I kindly ask you to leave.

This idea has been on my mind for quite some time now, and we got into it a little on another thread. This is to bring you up to speed:

1. Rule number one: Only Warcraft and Warcraft II are true Warcraft games. Everything after it was utter scrap! I want absolutely no War III or even, heaven help us, WoW ideas here, so don´t tell me to make Jungle Trolls or stupid Far Seers (I curse you, Blizzard! Far Seeing was a Human Spell in War I, nowadays it´s used by Orcs! Could it be any more nonsensical? It was a slap right into my face as a long-term fan!)

2. It all started with my question how to make War II Ogres from GW stuff. Unfortunately, choices seem limited. No models without pants, boots, and lotta armor. Also the heads are far too big. Any suggestions on this are welcome.

3. Ah yes, the Axe-throwing Trolls. They always were my favorites. They are so cool. You can imagine how disgusting I found GW´s idea of Trolls when I first saw them. How to make these guys? There seem to be no decent bodies, and even if there were, the faces... well, maybe Savage Orc bodies and goblin faces, but I´d have to wait for Savage to come out in plastic for price and conversion reasons...

So basically, I´m looking to reproduce the Orc army as it was in War I, as Warhammer Orcs look more like War I Grunts than War II Grunts. Wolf Riders instead of Boar Riders also should be no problem. Spearmen instead of Arrerboys. Catapults. Luckily, the Orc Shaman already looks perfectly like a Warlock. Then a Necrolyte... and Spiders and Daemons... everything there!:p

So this will be two different stories:

1. Creating the models

2. Coming up with house rules (maybe Orc Spells, Ogres as Elite, Ogre Magi and so on.)

Everything (useful) appreciated!

Ultimate Life Form
07-04-2009, 14:38
Oh, so I just realized Braad already did all the work and PM´d me. So here´s what he wants to share:

Army rules
No animosity, I think.
Also, no ‘size matters’ rule.

Heroes:

Orc Lord
Powerfull fighter

Ogre Mage
Lvl 2 fighting wizard

Death Knight
Lvl 4 wizard


Special characters

Cho’gall
Threatourous ogre mage. Powerfull and cheap, but with a chance to turn against you later in the game…

Zuljin
Axethrower hero

Gul’dan
Death knight, and mightiest caster in the army.

Grom Hellscream
Mighty Orc lord

Teron Gorefiend
Death Knight with special spells and additional magical prowess

Korgath Bladefist
Mighty Orc lord

Dentarg
Ogre mage with increased magic level and new abilities

Deathwing
Powerfull dragon. Maybe mage?

Core:

Orc Grunts
Plain orc boyz

Troll axethrowers
Orc boyz stat set, but no choppa. Instead: throwing axes!

Peons
Gobbo’s!, but orc-size models.


Special:

Ogre
Use ogre rules

Goblin sappers
Groups of 3 goblins on 40mm base. Same stats as any goblin, but 3 wounds for the whole base.
When you charge a unit, instead of fighting, it deals 2D6 S5 impact hits as explosion, and then is removed. No break tests, but panic test if necessary.

Move-and-fire Catapult
Rock lobber, but mounted on wheels. Can move like any warmachine, but is allowed to fire even when moved. Is manned by peons.


Rare:

Goblin Zeppelin
“I Wish I had a weapon!... O wait… I got one! BANZAI!”
Flying flame cannon or something. Can carry a unit of 10 orc grunts, upgraded with the skirmish special rule, and deploy them at the end of its own movement phase at any location the zeppelin is currently occupying.

Unmounted dragon
Use the rules for Deathfang (Asarnil’s dragon, DOW) but without the rider.

Thank you very much, Braad!

Ultimate Life Form
07-04-2009, 15:01
Well, Braad, I like most of this, however I would vote against Axe Throwers using Orc stats. I still remember very well they had less HP, no armour, were pretty frail and died in droves when on their own. Probably the best way to reflect this would be T3 for them. Maybe, to reflect their Regeneration, a 6+ Ward Save?

Darwin_green
07-04-2009, 15:24
any of the ork bosses should be fine for their respective roles.
Death knight?
ogre mage- an ogre butcher works fine
wyvern rider- just a regular hero on a wyver should work fine. maybe take up a hero and a rare slot?


how about this for your core infantry

orcs- big-uns for you regular orcs.
peons- regular un-upgraded orks
trolls- savage orcs with throwing weapons should work fine.

specials

goblin sappers. snotling pump wagons seem like they'll do the trick since they have both a random movement and random damage output

catapults should stay as normal catapults. they could move, and shoot, but not both so it shouldn't be anything special.

ogres... they were really tough in the games, so I'm inclined to use them as Man Eaters since bulls seem a little weak.

zeps? simply use it as a goblin doom diver. keep the zep "anchored" and say when your dropping gobbos it's making it's attack run, then it returns to its location(basically it stays on the same place on the table).

Ultimate Life Form
07-04-2009, 15:27
zeps? Simply use it as a goblin doom diver. Keep the zep "anchored" and say when your dropping gobbos it's making it's attack run, then it returns to its location(basically it stays on the same place on the table).

This is the best!

Braad
07-04-2009, 16:29
Axe thrower:
Stats of an orc boy, but -1T and no armour at all.
To reflect regeneration... well we got regeneration in warhammer! You could ofcourse say something like "regen on a 5/6+", as 4+ is a bit strong, since we're making houserules anyway :)
I guess you do agree with the throwing axes?

The problem with pump wagons is that they don't actually explode... You could just make a rule for them that you completely take them away, and make them 30-35 points instead of 40 (usually they don't survive after being beaten in combat anyway, so it doesn't have to be that much of a difference...).

I think if you add wolves to orcs, that you should actually use the wolves rules. So no tusker charge. Though I can also imagine a wolf not being so fast anymore with a heavy orc on top...

I wouldn't just say arrer boy = spear orc... there's cool rules in the BRB and it would be nice to use those.

@ Darwin_green
Remember zeppelins are slow aircraft. I don't really imagine them zipping back and forth...
Savage orcs as trolls make them too powerfull I think. Ultimate is right that they really died hard in the games when on their own... Well... if you didn't change certain things in the level editor, that is :p "One shot-one kill" axes, anyone?

About magic... I'll throw in a things for ogre-mage magic, then I'll head for dinner:
Bloodlust: this made them really hard, and fast-hitting. Maybe as effect allow frenzy on a unit until the next magic phase?
Eye of killrog: effect of exploring is again a bit useless... maybe make it some kind of burning eye that kills stuff. E.g. magic missile, something like D6 S3 hits.
Runes: Cast this on 3 locations in one go, in a range of 16". Mark the spots. Any model/units that crosses the locations sustains D6 S4 hits...

Ultimate Life Form
07-04-2009, 17:03
Death Coil - Makes target unit´s models die on 6 and replenishes 1 wound.

Raise the Dead - Creates a Skeleton Unit, just like VC´s Spell with Zombies.

Haste - Vanhel´s Danse Macabre

Unholy Armor - Target Hero loses 1 wound and has an 1+ Ward Save until caster´s next turn

Whirlwind - 2D6 S3 magic missile that jumps to closest unit next turn

Death and Decay - Curse of Years


Maybe we should work out a mana-based casting system? But I think that would be too much.

Solasun
07-04-2009, 18:57
/nitpick

Gul'dan was a warlock not a Death Knight. Knights of the Realm = basis for conversion for Death Knights.

/nitpick

Also, bizarre choice of heroes, you claim War 1 is canon but I don't see any reference to Blackhand or Doomhammer instead you use Second Draenic War leaders - Kargath stayed and Grom dove through the Dark Portal at the end.

Pretty sure Zul'jin is also a Second War vet that had little to do with the First War? I know Firethorn/Witherbark/Smolderthorn are all Alterac tribes originally not Black Morassian.

Deathwing would be a mage as well as a fighty lord of doom.

>_> Also... no Demons?

<_< And yea, World of Warcraft's pretty much canon and makes as much sense as Warhammer lore (It's retroactive)

For rules - Wyvern Orc Lord could be substituted with a Red Drake with Savage Orc Boss.

For a First or even Second War army I'd include an army wide rule of Hatred for all Orc units. Give Trolls a 5+ Regen save - Remember that First War Ogres had no Magi and looked like big barbarians not the Second War nappy style.

Also - Vengeance for Sen'jin, just to tease you further >.>

Charistoph
07-04-2009, 21:25
Remember that First War Ogres had no Magi and looked like big barbarians not the Second War nappy style.

If you refer to the Orcs vs Humans game as the First War, there were none, Ogres were brought in for the Second War (Tides of Darkness). First war, the Wolf-Riders were the anti-knights, with Ogres being anti-knights for the second.

PS: You can call the 2nd Warcraft Orcs Fel Orcs, if you want, and it would still be canonic.

Guitarkalle
07-04-2009, 21:54
Warcraft 1 and 2 are so awesome, I still play war2 online. Two headed ogres and death knights would be so cool in warhammer.

Wasn't Orgrim Doomhammer the boss in war2 (you couldn't play as him)

I also loved all the different Tribes. Stormreaver, Blackrock clan, Laughing scull, Shadowmoon, bonechewer etc.

Guitarkalle
07-04-2009, 21:55
If you refer to the Orcs vs Humans game as the First War, there were none, Ogres were brought in for the Second War (Tides of Darkness). First war, the Wolf-Riders were the anti-knights, with Ogres being anti-knights for the second.

PS: You can call the 2nd Warcraft Orcs Fel Orcs, if you want, and it would still be canonic.

I think there were Ogres in the first game? But they were neutral?

Thoras Ulriksson
07-04-2009, 22:06
I think there were Ogres in the first game? But they were neutral?

yeah they were neutral so maybe have some special rule to reflect that like animosity when within 6" of an orc unit? I remember in the manual it saying something along the lines of the only reason the ogres sided with the orcs is that they hated the orcs but they hated the humans more so they chose the lesser of two evils. but they wouldn't just lose that hatred. of course I could be wrong.

Braad
07-04-2009, 22:40
@ Solasun
When Ultimate came up with the idea for a warcraft army, I already started writing stuff down out of sheer enthousiasm before he mentioned anything about the first game... The second always was my favourite, as the gameplay was just a bit better and faster.

Ogres were indeed around as NPC's, I believe mainly in those cavern levels they had back then. Only single headed ones though.

Personally I think it could just as well be nice to mix stuff up from both games, as they are in about the same era anyway. There's only a couple of years between 1 and 2 if I remember right.

@ Solasun, about daemons
Since I started thinking from game 2, where daemons where mainly NPC's that came around now and then, I didn't include them. Also, taking the daemons from the first... well, just throw down some summonable bloodthirsters... cause that's like the power they had, and I think that's just a bit too much.

@ Ultimate
Mana-system? Would be a bit too much I think, and my guess that it's best to keep the main rules in line with warhammer, to keep the setting right.
Maybe something like give them two lores, one for the ogre magi (3 spells) and one for the death knights (6 spells) and let them randomly generate spells according to the standard rules. And then just use power and dispel dice. Keep it as simple as you can, is the best thing you can do. Otherwise you have to explain too much everytime you try for a game, and this would keep people from playing you.

BTW, who keeps track of all the ideas here? You or me?

Leogun_91
07-04-2009, 23:39
Allright I´m really tired and it was a long time since I played the game (War II that is never played War I) but I still have it somewhere but I´ll do my best to comment it anyway.
Army rules
No animosity, I think.
Also, no ‘size matters’ rule.Give size matters to dragons (Dragons only take panic tests caused by other dragons) this includes Deathwing.


Heroes:

[QUOTE=Ultimate Life Form;3446208]Orc Lord
Powerfull fighterOrc warboss for lordchoice and orc bigboss for hero choice seems fine, no need to make it more complicated than that.


Ogre Mage
Lvl 2 fighting wizard!Seems right, I would suggest to skip it as a hero choice and have it only as lord.


Death Knight
Lvl 4 wizard!Lvl 3 may be upgraded to lvl 4, maybe give it some rule that makes it a bad general (things feel uneasy in it´s presence) or something to make it less of the most powerfull character, could a hero level version be made? if not a hero level caster must be added.

Also I might suggest an ogre fleetmaster beacouse the ogres built juggernaut ships in War II and an ogre with a massive cannon would be cool.



Special charactersI don´t remember these so I´ll skip this.

Core:

Orc Grunts
Plain orc boyzSounds right, no big un upgrade.


Troll axethrowers
Orc boyz stat set, but no choppa. Instead: throwing axes!I would suggest M4 WS3 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld6, equipment throwing axes.


Peons
Gobbo’s!, but orc-size models. I suggest M4 WS2 BS2 S3 T4 W1 I2 A1 Ld6 Equipment: Handweapons, lacks command option, fleeing or killed peons does not cause panic.



Special:

Ogre
Use ogre rules.With the addition, only ogre characters may join units of ogres.


Goblin sappers
Groups of 3 goblins on 40mm base. Same stats as any goblin, but 3 wounds for the whole base.
When you charge a unit, instead of fighting, it deals 2D6 S5 impact hits as explosion, and then is removed. No break tests, but panic test if necessary.Quite fun but I would prefer them exploding when killed rather than exploding when charging then they would be better balanced I think.


Move-and-fire Catapult
Rock lobber, but mounted on wheels. Can move like any warmachine, but is allowed to fire even when moved. Is manned by peons.No move and fire, give it a spiked ammunition upgrade (+1S) and be done with it.

Also you forget that when you have upgraded the throwing axes enough a new upgrade becomes avaiable:
Troll Berserks
M4 WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7, Equipment: Throwing axes, special rules: regeneration



Rare:

Goblin Zeppelin
“I Wish I had a weapon!... O wait… I got one! BANZAI!”
Flying flame cannon or something. Can carry a unit of 10 orc grunts, upgraded with the skirmish special rule, and deploy them at the end of its own movement phase at any location the zeppelin is currently occupying.I think it should work purely as a transport/marchblocker and be quite cheap, maybe with a goblin crew rather than orc grunts, have 20 common goblins in it and if they are armed with ranged weapons they can shoot out of it.


Unmounted dragon
Use the rules for Deathfang (Asarnil’s dragon, DOW) but without the rider.That´s good, seems to be as it should.

Solasun
07-04-2009, 23:42
The Second War immediatly followed the First. The biggest differences being Ogre Magi, Death Knights and uh Giant Sea Turtles if I recall.

Sorry, I'm a tad of a Warcraft-y nerd - don't take my tone as anything but friendly plox.

My advice is to wowwiki The Dark Horde from World of Warcraft (Gasp!) since it's basically the old Horde from Warcraft 1 and 2 but more desperate and lacking Death Knights (easily added.)

Darwin_green
08-04-2009, 01:00
actually for game legal rules, why not just add a mercenary wizard with lore or death or shadows? or a dark emmisary if you can still find the rules for him.

Dexter099
08-04-2009, 02:01
Warcraft is actually a rip off of warhammer, if you didn't know.

Darwin_green
08-04-2009, 02:39
actually it was a going to be a licensed warhammer game before something came up. then they just made it into Warcraft. So... your not exactly right in calling it a rip-off.

WarlockOMork
08-04-2009, 03:00
next up someone saying that X is actualy a rip off of Y wich was there before both.

besides that personaly think that
Ogre Magi: should be 2 hero choices, to actualy make it fair for something to be Tough, have lots of wounds, be as strong as a fighter, and a lvl2 mage. just 1 hero choice seems kinda unfair.

Raiders: dont believe goblin wolf riders would represent this unit well, raiders are much more destructive.

Death coil should work like: The Steal soul spell. or for the jumpy effect, the dark elf spell, Soul Stealer.

Blood lust: (Something like bash 'em ladz,) but more realisticly, +xS on attacks untill the next magic phase.

FireBall: Add fireball to their spell list, well i assume this doesnt require much thinking about.

Dark Vision/Eye of killrog: X inch, target enenmy unit, Enemy player must reveal all hidden things (fanatics/assassins,magic items etc.) in said unit.

Trolls: i think giving them regenaration would be to much even with -1T, would make them a lot tougher then they originaly where, even with regen on 5+ instead of 4+.
think it would fit around T2 with normal regen aka 4+ or such.

Catapults: didnt they have Spiked, Flaming shots which exploded upon impact. (in other words needs a higher S inmo)

Sappers: Explode when ever owning player wants/or on death as earlyer suggested. the D6 S5 attacks & ignore armour. (and should probaly be at the price of fanatics, maybe only 1 use, but they are more controled.)
Either that or Function like a normal goblins with the Dying Squig herder Squad rules. 2d6" friendly and enemy D6 S5 hits. (personaly like this one best)

Zeppelins: Should have no weapons, they never had and shouldnt have, im with the Very cheap transporter/march blocker thing on this.

thats my vieuw on it so far (well thats what i remember from the game at least, been a while, Great game tho)

Edit: Damn darwin posted while i was making mine, there goes my opening comment.

Solasun
08-04-2009, 03:32
Ogre Magi: should be 2 hero choices, to actualy make it fair for something to be Tough, have lots of wounds, be as strong as a fighter, and a lvl2 mage. just 1 hero choice seems kinda unfair.

Ogre Butchers are already fairly tough fairly high wounded strong fighting level 2 mages

>_>

WarlockOMork
08-04-2009, 03:48
Ogre Butchers are already fairly tough fairly high wounded strong fighting level 2 mages

Ws3 S4 T5 W4 A3. hm.. not really, tough yes maybe, fighty?, when compared to other ogre heroes no , and that is what i meant.

btw - and Butchers arent lvl2 mages either >_< , they got a totaly diffrent casting system (, wich also hurts themself, as a extra penalty for that, and if any other ogre caster in the army wants to even attempt to cast the same spell any other has cast then its even worse, and lastly wich lore they have acces to also works on how much something should cost.)

In short, as in give something like bruiser stats to a butcher, with acces to a Stronger lore. using the basic(inmo a better) magic system. And acces to stuff like Ogre Clubs.

gotta see the big picture.

Edit: but other wise make em lvl3 because They where Specialy designed to be Briliant mages by Gul'dan, and can effortlessly wield magics.
and its supposed to be something unique in its own right, not just a copy of a butcher. what i believe doesnt do it justice.
To me the two for one thing kinda captures that, as it fits what they are. or have them be a 0-X choice instead. Considering they are supposed to be quite rare in the warcraft world.

Another Edit: To be clear: it was the two headed kind i was talking about. And it are all just random suggestions, take it for what you want, just giving my opinion.
Who knows maybe some of my random ramblings might give you(Ultimate/Braad) an idea.

Ultimate Life Form
08-04-2009, 04:49
Well, Braad, the Daemons pretty much killed everything they encountered with a single swipe of their sword, EXCEPT those annoying Knights who always seemed to have a single HP or something left and started hacking away. I think a Bloodthirster would be too much. Just imagine that. A Bloodthirster having trouble killing a Knight. Maybe a toned-down version.

It would be great if you could keep track of this, since I´m especially bad at this kind of stuff, and I´m gonna visit my Granny soon.:D

Well, to clear things up, it started with me wanting War II Ogres, but then I realized just how much I liked War I, so I decided to go more into that direction, especially since I won´t have anything to convert Trolls and Ogres from anytime soon. But I think mixing the units won´t be a problem since the character of the Horde didn´t change. Also, of course, I´m talking ORC Wolf Riders here.

I could go on for hours and hours how much I hated War III and WoW and how stupid it is (Orcs with human skin tone:eek:, Orcs with red skin:eek:, Orc SHAMAN:eek:, Samurai Orcs:eek:, oh, damn it, GOOD Orcs:eek:) (and this is only the beginning of the Orcs, which is only the beginning of the entire system), but this doesn´t belong here.

Braad
08-04-2009, 07:30
@ Ultimate
Sure, I'll try to make something out of it. I got time anyway

@ the rest
Thanks a lot for all the responses, there are some really cool things here!

I especially like the comment about troll berserkers, how come I didn't think about those...
Something like Trolls as more or less proposed, but BS3 and no regeneration at all, and berserkers get BS4 and regen on 5+ or 6+, depending on what is fair... But I'll try to balance that out a bit.

I think I'll just go get the ogre armybook this afternoon. Was already thinking about it, and for this it will come in handy.

I'll be back later today with some more worked out concepts.

someone2040
08-04-2009, 08:19
Not really helpful but...
My Ogres are blue based on the ones in Warcraft 2. I was going to give all my characters two heads, but in the end only my Bruiser got that treatment (Not that I have a large army, only the Batallion really. So Bruiser and butcher).
So yeah, good luck with your list! I personally don't agree that Warcraft 3 killed the series, as I think the Orc Shamans/Farseers are such a cool thing - and hey, Ogres are still Ogres - they didn't exactly change much.

Braad
08-04-2009, 08:57
About what killed what... I liked Warcraft III too. It's a cool game. They just had to shape it a bit to make it suitable. Sometimes things tend to be a bit difficult to continue with in the current shape.

I gathered all ideas here and started working on a list now... hopefully I'll have something up somewhere in the afternoon (CET)...

Braad
08-04-2009, 14:00
Army rules

Size matters
Smaller orcs and adversaries do not panic the larger ones. In the following list, units only cause panic to their own kin, and to those above them.
• Peons and Goblins
• Orcs, Trolls, Death Knights and Warlocks
• Ogres
• Dragons


Special unit rules

High flight
Goblin zeppelins have the rule high flight. As zeppelin has the physical disability to land and take off over and over again in a short time, they instead remain stationary at altitude. Therefore they never land during a game, can end their move hovering over forest and other impassible terrain, and are never obstructed by anything. They can only be attacked by ranged attacks, magic and other flyers. They can only make a fly move and do not have ground movement.

EXPLODE!
Sappers can decide to blow themselves up. Decide to do so at the beginning of a round of combat, before any attacks are made, but after impact hits are resolved. The goblin’s explode and deal D6+2 S4 hits to any unit in base contact, and D3+1 S4 hits to any unit within D6+3”. These hits are flaming and allow no armour saves.

The concoctions wielded by Sappers are very unstable. At the start of the players own turn roll a D6 for each unit of Sappers. On the roll of a 1, the unit explodes on the spot.


Horde magic

Casters from the Horde use only their own spell lores. Death knights randomly generate spells from the Lore of Darkness; Ogre and Warlock characters pick their spells from the lore of Blood.


Lore of Darkness

Death Coil
Cast on 8+
This spell can be cast on any enemy model in line of sight, even in close combat. The enemy model loses 1 wound, with only ward saves allowed. If no successful ward save is made, the caster gains 1 wound for the remainder of the battle. This spell can raise his wounds up to double of its starting number.

Raise Dead
Check someones VC book??? Raise the Dead - Creates a Skeleton Unit, just like VC´s Spell with Zombies.

Whirlwind
Cast on 11+, remains in play
Summons a mighty tornado unto the battlefield. Mark a spot, and scatter this with the artillery and scatter dice. A hit is treated as a scatter instead, and moved in the direction of the tiny arrow. A misfire counts as 0” instead. Place the large …” template on the spot. Any model fully under the template sustains a S5 hit. Any model partially under the template is hit on a 4+. A model (partially) under the hole in the template is considered to be in the eye of the storm, and is not hit at all.
At the end of the next caster’s magic phase, roll a D6. On a 1-3 the tornado ends. On a 4+, scatter the tornado and work out damage again as described above. The tornado can also be ended according to the normal rules for remains in play.

Unholy Armour
Cast on 8+
This spell can be cast on any character within 18”, even if in close combat, except on the caster himself. The target looses 1 wound, but gains a 2+ ward save until the players next magic phase.

Haste
Vanhel´s Danse Macabre ???


Death and Decay
Curse of Years ????


Lore of Blood

Blood Lust
Cast on 7+
Cast on any friendly unit within 12”, even if engaged in close combat. The unit receives +1S for the duration of this turn, up to a maximum of 10. A unit can only be affected once at a time by this spell.

Dark vision
Cast on 6+
Target any enemy unit (no targeting restrictions). This unit must reveal all hidden properties, like fanatics, assassins and magic items.

Runes
Cast on 8+, remains in play
Cast this spell on a location within 18” of the caster. This location must be unoccupied so that you can place the small …” blast template at this location without touching any unit. Any unit (friend or foe) that comes in contact with the template sustains D6 S4 hits, with no armour saves allowed. The spell is dispelled right after causing damage once.
Even though this spell remains in play, it allows the caster to cast other spells without the runes being dispelled.

FireBall
Cast on 5+
Magic missile with 24” range. Causes D6 S4 hits.

Eye of Killrog
Cast on 7+
What does this do? Magic missile or something?

Summon Spiders
Cast on 9+
This spell summons D6 Giant Spiders on an unoccupied location within 12” of the caster.


Characters - Lords

Orc Warlord
Rules: Orc Warboss

Ogre Mage
Lvl 2 fighting ogre wizard
2 headed option.

Death Knight
Lvl 3 or 4 wizard
Cannot be general

Cho’gall
Threatourous ogre mage. Powerfull and cheap, but with a chance to turn against you later in the game…

Gul’dan
Warlock, and mightiest caster in the army.

Grom Hellscream
Mighty Orc lord

Teron Gorefiend
Death Knight with special spells and additional magical prowess

Dentarg
Ogre mage with increased magic level and new abilities

Deathwing
Powerfull dragon. Maybe mage?


Characters - Heroes

Orc Chieftain
Rules: Orc Big Boss

Orc Warlock
Level 1 or 2 spellcaster

Zuljin
Axethrower hero

Korgath Bladefist
Mighty Orc lord


Core units

Orc Grunts

Points/model: 5
Unit size: 10+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Orc Grunt 4 3 3 4 4 1 2 1 7
Champion 4 4 3 4 4 1 2 2 7

Wargear: Hand weapon and light armour

Options
• May take shields (+1 pts/model) or additional hand weapons (+2 pts/model).
• Upgrade one Grunt to a musician for +5 pts.
• Upgrade one Grunt to a standard bearer for +10 pts.
• Promote one Grunt to champion for +15 pts.


Ogre

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Ogre


Troll axethrowers

Points/model: 5
Unit size: 10+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Troll 4 3 3 3 3 1 2 1 7
Headhunter 4 3 3 3 3 1 2 2 7

Wargear: Throwing axe

Special rules: Skirmish

Options
• Upgrade one Troll to a musician for +5 pts.
• Upgrade one Troll to a standard bearer for +10 pts.
• Promote one Troll to headhunter for +15 pts.


Peons

Points/model: 4
Unit size: 10+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Zeppelin 4 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 6

Wargear: Shield and spear


Special units

Orc Raiders

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Orc Grunt 4 3 3 4 4 1 2 1 7

Wargear: Longswords, light armour and shields


2-headed ogre
Stubborn but more fickle due to extra head. Movement on dice instead of standard… M value = 2 less then ogre, but + D3, or maybe some kind of animosity.


Ogre Juggernaught-crew/Ogre Sailors
Use leadbelchers


Goblin sappers*
Groups of 3 goblins on 40mm base. Same stats as any goblin, but 3 wounds for the whole base.
When you charge a unit, instead of fighting, it deals 2D6 S5 impact hits as explosion, and then is removed. No break tests, but panic test if necessary.

Sappers: Explode when ever owning player wants/or on death as earlyer suggested. the D6 S5 attacks & ignore armour. (and should probaly be at the price of fanatics, maybe only 1 use, but they are more controled.)
Either that or Function like a normal goblins with the Dying Squig herder Squad rules. 2d6" friendly and enemy D6 S5 hits. (personaly like this one best)

Points/model: 30
Unit size: 1
* Note that up to 4 sappers may be bought as a single special slot
Base size: 40x40mm, several goblins on a single base
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Sappers 5 2 3 2 2 3 3 3 5

Wargear: Unstable concoctions

Special rules: EXPLODE!


Troll berserkers

Points/model: 5
Unit size: 10+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Troll 4 3 4 3 3 1 2 1 7
Headhunter 4 3 4 3 3 1 2 2 7

Wargear: Throwing axe (+2 range)
Special rules: Skirmish, Regeneration on 5+

Options
• Upgrade one Troll to a musician for +5 pts.
• Upgrade one Troll to a standard bearer for +10 pts.
• Promote one Troll to headhunter for +15 pts.


Catapult
Rock lobber, but mounted on wheels. Spiked ammo +1S, burning ammo: flaming


Rare units

Goblin Zeppelin

“I Wish I had a weapon!”
Flying flame cannon or something. Can carry a unit of 10 orc grunts, upgraded with the skirmish special rule, and deploy them at the end of its own movement phase at any location the zeppelin is currently occupying.
Zeppelins: Should have no weapons, they never had and shouldnt have, im with the Very cheap transporter/march blocker thing on this.
Base size: 100x100mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Zeppelin 0

Special rules: High flight


Dragon

Points/model: 300
Unit size: 1
Base size: 50x100mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Dragon 6 6 0 6 6 6 3 5 8

Wargear: Claw, scale and flame. He counts as having a hand weapon, a 4+ scaly skin and a S4 breath weapon

Special rules: Fly; large target; terror


Daemon?

Braad
08-04-2009, 14:02
Above, what I got up to now. Still needs a lot of work, but I think the unit selection is quite ok now.
Let me know what you think.

People who have any ideas on how to model stuff or were to get suitable models, like a zeppelin, share it I say!

Any input is welcome.

Ultimate Life Form
08-04-2009, 14:24
Whoa Braad, you really are determined! So you don´t know about Vampire Spells? Let me introduce you to the dark arts of my blood sucking brethren! I don´t have the English version on me, but I think it´ll suffice.

Sidenote: No Necromancy Spam for Orcs!

Raise the Dead: 5+

choose point within 12" around caster. Place 1 Zombie (Skeleton) there. Group the rest of the unit around it. W3+4 Zombies. First row at least 5 wide, keep 1" distance to enemies.


Vanhel´s: 7+

Friendly unit within 12" moves up to 8" like normal movement. This may be a charge. Only one Vanhel´s on this unit per turn. If they already are in close combat, they have ASF and reroll missed to hit rolls.



Curse of Years: 8+
Remains in Game

Cast on enemy unit within 18" even if in close combat. D6 for EVERY model. Dies on a roll of 6. If not banished (wrong term?:confused:), at next magic phase (enemy´s), the same, die on 5+. Then 4+, 3+, 2+ (max). No armor save allowed.

WarlockOMork
08-04-2009, 16:18
Zeppelin figures?

https://www.coolminiornot.com/190780 comes from the 2 black dragons
(best suggestion in this list inmo)

also i believe forge world has an airship somewhere.

or http://www.modelbuffs.com/airships_and_blimps.php but then you gotta model the rest yourself.

something like this maybe http://www.stronghold-online.de/Bildergalerie/GoldenDemon/gdschiff.htm

or simply buy a boat/ship to go under it/to go with the blimp.

Again, just giving random suggestions again, who knows maybe theyr usefull :p

Braad
08-04-2009, 16:55
@ ultimate
Does it show?

And no, I don't have anything on necromancy here... I only got O&G several editions, beast, warriors and, since an hour or 2, the ogre kingdoms book :p
So good to know this stuff.

@ Warlock
Looks nice. Any random suggestion is good, so keep stuff coming.

WarlockOMork
08-04-2009, 18:08
well in that case.

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/battle%20troll/latest/03087
convert his club into an Axe and he's got a nice throwing stance. and looks more or less simmilair.

and eye of killrog was a scouting spell. (so hence my identify hidden things in a unit, number of fanatics/assassins/what magic items/banner/etc., either that or a bonus to hit something (as you could then hit things easyer with your ranged weaponry, (from a safer distance)
It gave the caster knowledge of both the lands it wandered and the creatures that live there, leaving the mage with knowledge of the terrain
Edit: ah nevermind i see you already used that idea for dark vision. well a bonus to hit then? :P or swap their effects. dunno.

No touch of darkness spell or shadow spear?, then again a lore can only have 6 spells. well some have 7 but i cant think of one to put up as a lvl0 spell.
You could replace eye with Shadow spear tho. if you really cant think of anything it would do.

and know it might become a bit to many special chars, but where's Doomhammer? or Killrogg Dead eye.

Loving what the sappers are becomming tho, and almost wish they had them in Regular Warhammer in the O&G list.

and lastly didnt the horde also have grunt spearmen?
Edit: well thats what they where called, but where more like javlin throwers(as they could throw said spear).
+ assume raider longswords(shouldnt they be called warblades?) are Greatweapons that Do work when mounted. (dont remember them having shields tho)
would kill things easely, and die more or less easely. (fair as well as correct(as far as i remember))
give Peons pick axes? Dwarves got those, dont know what the rules for them where tho.

Darwin_green
08-04-2009, 18:28
if your into heavy converting I have an idea for troll axe-throwers.

bloodletter bodies, maruader legs, goblin heads and some green stuff.

you greenstuff the tusks and tunics to cover up the scales from the blood letters body and do the mohawks.

Ultimate Life Form
08-04-2009, 20:32
if your into heavy converting I have an idea for troll axe-throwers.

bloodletter bodies, maruader legs, goblin heads and some green stuff.

you greenstuff the tusks and tunics to cover up the scales from the blood letters body and do the mohawks.

Oh, that´s a good idea! I´ll check it out anytime soon!

Leogun_91
08-04-2009, 20:33
give Peons pick axes? Dwarves got those, dont know what the rules for them where tho.The picks counts as greatweapons so I think the smaller pickaxes carried by peons should count as handweapons.

Urgat
08-04-2009, 23:28
Eye of Kilrog: can be cast on any enemy unit on the table, no LoS required. If the spell is successfully cast, the target counts as in sight of any ranged attacks, even if it is not actually in sight.
How's that?
And yeah, peons shouldn't have shields and spears imho, they are weak like warhammer gearless goblin weak.

No warlock summoning demons? :p

WarlockOMork
08-04-2009, 23:42
Yeah agree with the weaponless/Hw pick axe, peon thing, but if thats the case make them 2-3 points instead.

and damn that i didnt come up with that, well, in any event good one for eye of killrogg
thinking of that concept and following up on it, if your also making magic items, could (also) make it(or something simmilair) a magic item, like the dark elf one. (a fammiliar that allows you to either trace casters line of sight, from him/her self or the fammilair. wich always has to stay within 6" or something, either that or has its own movement value)

would be cool, having a eye (figure) zipping about the table.
not hard to Gstuff either.

Dexter099
09-04-2009, 04:20
actually it was a going to be a licensed warhammer game before something came up. then they just made it into Warcraft. So... your not exactly right in calling it a rip-off.

You are correct, it was going to be a liscenced warhammer game, before the liscence was pulled. However, Blizzard didn't want to change the models, so they got sued successfully for copyrighted idea theft by GW.


next up someone saying that X is actualy a rip off of Y wich was there before both.

Don't really understand what you're saying, but Warhammer came out long before Warcraft, and it was proven in a corporate lawsuit.

I'm just sharing an interesting tidbit of information.

WarlockOMork
09-04-2009, 04:25
at the end of my post i Edited/said, that darwin posted while i was typing mine, thus ruining that/my opening comment.

as he indeed something along those lines.

namely that usualy if someone says something(x) is a rip off of something(y).
someone else tends to come along and say, no its actualy a rip off/remake of/not quite right/..... Etc.

wich he did.

Edit: bit of a cliche thing on forums and discussions. when ever someone comes along claiming rip off, someone else tends to come along claiming its actualy not quite right.
so was supposed to be an opening joke. but i was to late as someone already posted it before i finished my own post.

Braad
09-04-2009, 08:44
@ WarlockOMork
Well, touch of darkness and shadowspear are their actual attacks... I could give the warlokcs and death knights a ranged attack though, under that name...
Also, indeed, I had 6 spells, and I picked those I found most important... Also, I believe I already gave both lores a magic missile.

Too many specials characters.... yeah, I think you're right on that one. Luckily I didn't work on that one too much...
If I'm honest, I think adding in Deathwing would be too powerfull and allows to many dragons anyway. So I think I'm going to drop that. Maybe also Gul'dan and Cho'gall, as they are traitours anyway.
I'm not really familiar with the Warcraft I heroes anymore, so I'll need to read into that a bit...

Pick axes is a nice idea. But great weapons is a bit too much... Maybe just put them on model-wise?
I also thought about spearmen, but we also have axe throwers and berserkers, already. Wouldn't this be a bit too much overkill in an army that is based on brutal combat?

@ Darwin_Green
Well, I asked for the converting mainly because Ultimate has some plans. And it also allows us to visualize how such a thing could become, so that maybe others are tempted in using this....
Nice idea btw. Sounds like that could work. Maybe the old metal bloodletters could also be nice here... Just more difficult to convert.

@ Urgat
You gave me an excellent idea! What about this:

Eye of Killrog
Cast on 8+
Target one enemy unit within 24" and LOS, even when in close combat. A character in a unit cannot be targeted seperately. If succesful, this unit counts as being a large target for all purposes of targeting in the next friendly shooting phase.

Well, what do you think? This allows for all ranks to 'know' where the target is, and so all models can shoot it, even if some other unit is intervening.

@ Dexter
Really? Never knew that... interesting stuff you're telling here.

Charistoph
09-04-2009, 16:20
One other thing I would note, unless you plan on having the Alliance field Knights as Core, I would put Ogres in as Special with 2-Headed Ogers as Rare, but that's just what I think.

Also, 2-Headed Ogres were supposed to be the Ogre Mages, maybe give them special rule ala Horrors where so many 2-Headed Ogres allow them to represent as x level of character Ogre Mage (obviously not the same number, but make them a little expensive, and have them be 1 model per level as an example).

And I like that new Eye of Kilrogg, fits well in WH.

Gotta have Doomhammer, he's the leader of the Horder from mid-Orc War 1 to end of War 2.

Braad
09-04-2009, 19:06
The idea was to include the ogre mage only as a character. Such an orc and ogre army would not be considered magic heavy in the warhammer setting, so doing it that way, with units getting magic, might be a bit weird and abusable... But maybe the units champs of the two-headed ogre units could be upgraded to get a magic level... Hmmm... I'll certainly put some more thought in this.

And yes, I don't see why knights wouldn't be core, if someone came up with the opposing army... Instead, I rather think these ogres should be somewhat less powerfull compared to the ones in the ogre kingdoms book, while two-headed ogres are more likely to equel those, or maybe even a bit more... Something like that.

I'll certainly check out Doomhammer.

I'll try to make an updated list tomorrow, so everyone can check again. But I also got some painting to do, so I'm not sure yet how much time I can put in it.

Ultimate Life Form
09-04-2009, 19:12
Doomhammer lost my respect when after the Horde´s defeat, going along with Blizzard´s new policy of ridiculous nonsensicalness, he changed from a bloodthirsty frenzied barbarian megalomaniac to a peaceful hermit who retired to the mountains in order to meditate.

Since at least to me this is not canonical, and I still keep the picture of the old Doomhammer in my heart, I´m okay with it though. However we need Gul´dan!

War I Heroes of notice:

Blackhand, mighty leader of the Horde

Grizelda, his daughter who runs off to a cave with a bunch of Ogres (though the game never explains why) and needs to be assassinated by her father´s order (sigh... the good old times... no "good" Orcs and no females that looked like supermodels with tusks...)

The Half Orc Garona (who always was cool even though I loathe the thought of Half Orcs)

Braad
09-04-2009, 19:39
Ow look... I recognize those pics.
But it's been so long... I can hardly remember anything about those.

Btw, magic items!
What about those? I don't think there were many items of true interest in the WCI and II games... I could snatch some stuff from III, but up to now we didn't include any.
Or should I just make stuff up, that sounds a bit recognizable?

Ultimate Life Form
09-04-2009, 19:43
Well, there´s not much to say beside what I already wrote. Grizelda must be killed, she goes down with 2 or 3 attacks and doesn´t even fight back, and Garona has been captured by the enemy and needs rescue. Of course, she doesn´t lift a finger either.

I do know nothing about Blackhand except he was the Horde´s leader, got assassinated by Doomhammer and had two sons, Rend and Maim who along with their Clan opposed Doomhammer. Don´t recall the name. Was it the blacktooth-grin clan? I think it was the black one, but it´s described in the War II manual.

I think we will do well without magic items, but I´ll start to think about it.

WarlockOMork
09-04-2009, 19:59
Semi Correct it was he was originaly the leader of the black rock clan, but when he died, Rend and maim formed a splinter group from the black rock clan, The Black Tooth Grin Clan, with wich they oppose doomhammer.

About Blackhand, i dont remember his first name ever beeing mentioned, (he's just called chief/warchief,) he is known as a tactical genious in battle tho, but one with a giant ego/lust for power .
Wich made him an easy puppet for Gul'dan. (who also helped him become Warchief)
(the power behind the throne kind of thing)

Charistoph
09-04-2009, 20:55
The idea was to include the ogre mage only as a character. Such an orc and ogre army would not be considered magic heavy in the warhammer setting, so doing it that way, with units getting magic, might be a bit weird and abusable... But maybe the units champs of the two-headed ogre units could be upgraded to get a magic level... Hmmm... I'll certainly put some more thought in this.

And yes, I don't see why knights wouldn't be core, if someone came up with the opposing army... Instead, I rather think these ogres should be somewhat less powerfull compared to the ones in the ogre kingdoms book, while two-headed ogres are more likely to equel those, or maybe even a bit more... Something like that.


Only reason I mentioned it was because both Ogres and Knights were Tier 2 units, with their upgraded personae, Ogre Mages and Paladins, being Tier 3. Obviously, the closest to tiers in Warhammer is how they are ranked (Core, Special, Rare, Character), and while you could pump out an entire army of them, I thought it would be more characteristic if they were bumped up a tier. But, this is not my house rules, this is yours. I will deposit 2 CU on the way out.

Braad
10-04-2009, 07:05
No worries. Just throw it all out, and I'll use everything in the big plan. It's a good thing you pointed me to the fact that plain ogres might be a bit to much to just throw in as core. I just think we already got so much special...

At first I was thinking to make the 2-headed ogres stronger than the 1-headed, but I'm now thinking to switch this to something like this:
Drop 1 attack and 1 wound, and maybe another stat too from the one-headed ogres, and keep them as core. And use the ogres like how they are in the ogre book as 2-headed ogres, and in the special section. Would that level it out a bit?

Also, what about allowing for the 2-headed ogre champions to be level 1 ogre mages?
I would fix the two-headed ogre lords to level 2 then, or make him level 2 and upgradable to 3, and maybe dissallow the death knight if any ogre mages are included, to cap the magic level a bit. Or not... What do you all think?

I'll try for an updated list this evening (CET), though not much on the special characters yet.

Ultimate Life Form
10-04-2009, 07:13
I´m not sure about the Ogre Champ, but I think I could get used to it.

The rest you wrote is pretty much to my liking, but I want to be allowed to take a Ogre Mage AS WELL as a Death Knight, or else!

Well, I´m off to my Granny then! I trust you manage all this during my absence!:D

Braad
10-04-2009, 09:54
Hmmm...
Well, since my guess is that you should have a big saying in this, its maybe better to skip the mage champion, and stick to the old plan...

If your granny suddenly has large ears and mouth today, be carefull... And don't wear a red hood... ;)
Don't forget the cookies though! And save some for me.

Charistoph
10-04-2009, 16:23
Another thought, Ogre Mage/Paladins could have their magic work more like the Empire Warrior Priests or Tomb King Liche Priests.

Braad
10-04-2009, 17:18
I'm unfamiliar with TK, but warrior priests work like bound spells right?
Hmmm... Would that improve it much? I don't really see how that would be much better than just the normal system.

WarlockOMork
10-04-2009, 17:22
it would be better and worse in a way.

TK cast them as 2d6 value bounds (Ie at a very low value inmo, easy to dispell)
but they do have acces to all spells of their lore, but can only cast one spell of them a phase.

Prayers work kinda simmilair, but then are always bound 4 (ever easyer to dispell)
but afaik, can cast two spells of their list.

so better and worse, always acces to the entire lore, but easyer to dispell. (inmo that makes it in total more worse then better)

also a nice bonus you cant miscast bounds.

Ps: not a fan of it, it might be safe, but its far from usuable unless your enemy has very little magic defence.

Charistoph
10-04-2009, 17:28
Also consider that the official list for the aforementioned units is about 4, and that's what "spell lore" we are looking fore.

Also one other point on Bloodlust, it increased speed as well as damage, which made spamming Ogre Mages so broken, so would add to M as well as I.

Braad
10-04-2009, 17:31
Also one other point on Bloodlust, it increased speed as well as damage, which made spamming Ogre Mages so broken, so would add to M as well as I.

Good one! While I didn't try to actually copy the spells 1 on 1, this is indeed a good effect as it will give the spell a use when your not in combat yet.


Indeed, spamming ogre mages was terrible. As you could give bloodlust before you attacked, and needed to heal during the attack, bloodlust was much better then healing...

Braad
10-04-2009, 19:39
I did updates! I included a lot of the ideas that were proposed here, so check it out.

I still need magic items, and stats and rules for the characters. Especially ideas and fluff for the special characters would be much appreciated.

I also came up with an interesting rule for peons, as I thought they would otherwise be a bit pointless.


Da Horde!

Warcraft I&II armylist remake for Warhammer

In the age of chaos two factions battled for dominance.
The kingdom of Azeroth was a prosperous one. The humans who dwelled there turned the land into a paradise.
The knights of Stormwind and the clerics of Northshire Abbey roamed far and wide, serving the King’s people with honor and justice.
The well trained armies of the King maintained a lasting piece for many generations.
Then came the orcish hordes…

No one knew where these creatures came from, and none were prepared for the terror that they spawned.
Their warriors wielded axe and spear with deathly proficiency, while others rode dark wolves as black as the moonless night.
Unimagined were the destructive powers of their evil magiks, derived from the fires of the underworld.

With an ingenious arsenal of weaponry and powerful magic, these two forces collide in a contest of cunning, intellect and brute strength with the victor claiming dominance of the whole of Azeroth.

This list is a fan based project and in no way endorsed by either Games Workshop or Blizzard.


Horde special rules

Army rules

Size matters
Smaller orcs and adversaries do not panic the larger ones. In the following list, units only cause panic to their own kin, and to those above them.
• Peons and Goblins
• Orcs, Trolls, Death Knights and Warlocks
• Ogres
• Dragons



Special rules

High flight
Goblin zeppelins have the rule high flight. As zeppelin has the physical disability to land and take off over and over again in a short time, they instead remain stationary at altitude. Therefore they never land during a game, can end their move hovering over forest and other impassible terrain, and are never obstructed by anything. They can only be attacked by ranged attacks, magic and other flyers, and do not trigger any groundbased effects like the Runes spell or Orcs&Goblins Fanatics. They can only make a fly move and do not have ground movement.

“I Wish I had a weapon!”
Zeppelins do not have any weaponry. If they are attacked, they can only try to survive until help arrives, or flee the combat. They have a Unit Strenght of 4, but if they outnumber an opponent, they cannot claim a bonus for this.

Troop Carrier
Zeppelins main purpose is carrying troops around. They may carry 1 unit of up to 15 Orc Grunt, Orc Spearmen, Peons, Troll Axethrowers or Troll Berserkers, or up to 4 Goblin Sappers around. These have to be bought separately.
The unit starts the game boarded, and is effectively deployed when the Zeppelin is placed. The unit cannot be effected by anything while boared. If the Zeppelin is killed with the unit still on board, the unit is placed directly on the location where it crashed. Roll a D6 for every model inside. On a 4+ the model dies with no armour saves allowed. Take a panic test if necessary.
At the end of any movement phase, even if the Zeppelin moved, the unit may be deployed. They climb down with robes, and land directly underneath the Zeppelin. They may not perform any action this turn, but are free to perform any action from the next turn on, independently from the Zeppelin. The Zeppelin may now fly anywhere, but cannot claim table quarters.


EXPLODE!
Sappers can decide to blow themselves up. Decide to do so at the beginning of a round of combat, before any attacks are made, but after impact hits are resolved. The goblin’s explode and deal D6+2 S4 hits to any unit in base contact, and D3+1 S4 hits to any unit within 5”. These hits are flaming and allow no armour saves.

The concoctions wielded by Sappers are very unstable. At the start of the players own turn roll a D6 for each unit of Sappers. On the roll of a 1, the unit explodes on the spot.

As they are supposed to die horribly, Sappers never cause panic to any other unit.

Berserker
These well trained Troll warriors excel with the throwing axe, and have improved skills. Besides having a higher Ballistic skill as the basic axethrowers, they also have the following upgrades:
• Regeneration on a 5+
• Improved range on their throwing axes: 8”

Work work!
Peons are the working force of the horde. When a unit of Peons starts the movement phase within 4” of a Catapult that is unmanned or lost part of its, models from the Peon unit may move out of the crew to replenish the warmachine crew up to a maximum of 3 crewmembers.
There must be a direct and clear path between the unit and the warmachine, and the unit must be allowed to move that turn and may not be fleeing.
The Peons move directly to the warmachine and immediately join the crew. The Peon unit may not charge after this, but is free to perform any other action.


Weapons

Throwing spears
Orc throwing spears are heavier than the average javelin. They count as javelins for all purposes of ranged weaponry, but can also be used as normal infantry spears.

Longswords
Orcs mounted on wolves may be equipped with giant Longswords. These can only be handled by the most brute and adapt warriors. A Longsword works exactly as a great weapons, though can only be used when mounted, and confers to a mounted warrior a Strenght bonus of +2 instead of +1.

Cannon
Ogre Sailors carry small cannons around the battlefield. These cannons fire as a handgun, with a range of 18” and strength 5, only instead of 1 shot, they fire D6 shots. Roll one D6 for each ogre each time before they fire, to determine the amount of shots they get. Then roll to hit and to wound as normal. On a roll of 1 when determining shots something went wrong. If this happens, roll on the misfire chart below once for each 1 rolled.

Roll Effect
1 Explode! The unit sustains D6 wounds, with no armour saves allowed.
2-3 Sizzle… The cannon is not working well today. From this moment on, all D6 rolls for this ogre are instead a D3 (with only a natural 1 causing further misfires).
4-6 Poof! A slight malfunction. May not shoot this turn.




Horde magic

Casters from the Horde use only their own spell lores. Death knights randomly generate spells from the Lore of Darkness; Ogre and Warlock characters pick their spells from the lore of Blood.



Lore of Darkness

Death Coil
Cast on 5+
Magic missile. Does D6 Strenght 3 hits with no armour saves allowed. If the missile causes at least one wound, the spell steals life and gives this to the Death Knight. He gains +1 wound each time, up to a maximum of double his starting number of wounds.

Raise Dead
Cast on 7+
Pick an unoccupied spot, at least 1” from any enemy unit, and within 12” of the caster. Place one skeleton at this location, and group the rest the rest of the unit around. Ranks have to be at least 5 wide. Creates 2D6 skeletons. This spell may also be used to replenish existing units.

Haste
Cast on 7+
One friendly unit within 12” may immediately make a free move, at their normal movement rate. No march, and difficult terrain modifiers must be applied. If they come in contact with an enemy, they count as charging. If the unit is already engaged in combat, they count as having ASF in the next combat phase.

Unholy Armour
Cast on 8+
This spell can be cast on any friendly character within 18”, even if in close combat, except on the caster himself. The target looses 1 wound, but gains a 2+ ward save until the players next magic phase.

Death and Decay
Cast on 8+, remains in play
May be cast on one enemy unit within 18” and within line of sight, even when it is in engaged in close combat. This unit must roll a D6 for every model in the unit, and on the roll of a 6 the model dies, with no armour saves allowed. Roll again at the end of each following magic phase (both the caster’s and the opponent’s phase) if the spell is not dispelled. The second time models die on a 5+, the third time on a 4+, and so on. From the fifth time on, the models keep dying on a 2+.

Whirlwind
Cast on 11+, remains in play
Summons a mighty tornado unto the battlefield. Mark a spot, and scatter this with the artillery and scatter dice. A hit is treated as a scatter instead, and moved in the direction of the tiny arrow. A misfire counts as 0” instead. Place the large 5” template on the spot. Any model fully under the template sustains a S5 hit. Any model partially under the template is hit on a 4+. 1 model (partially) under the hole in the template is considered to be in the eye of the storm, and is not hit at all. If more models are partially under the hole, the controlling player decides which one to keep safe.
At the end of the next caster’s magic phase, roll a D6. On a 1-3 the tornado ends. On a 4+, scatter the tornado and work out damage again as described above. The tornado can also be ended according to the normal rules for remains in play.



Lore of Blood

Fireball
Cast on 5+
Magic missile with 24” range. Causes D6 S4 hits.

Dark vision
Cast on 6+
Target any enemy unit (no targeting restrictions). This unit must reveal all hidden properties, like fanatics, assassins and magic items.

Blood Lust
Cast on 7+
Cast on any friendly unit within 12”, even if engaged in close combat. The unit receives +1S for the duration of this turn, up to a maximum of 10. A unit can only be affected once at a time by this spell.

Eye of Killrog
Cast on 8+
Target one enemy unit within 24" and LOS, even when in close combat. A character in a unit cannot be targeted seperately. If succesful, this unit counts as being a large target for all purposes of targeting in the next friendly shooting phase.

Runes
Cast on 8+, remains in play
Cast this spell on a location within 18” of the caster. This location must be unoccupied so that you can place the small …” blast template at this location without touching any unit. Any unit (friend or foe) that comes in contact with the template sustains D6 S4 hits, with no armour saves allowed. The spell is dispelled right after causing damage once.
Even though this spell remains in play, it allows the caster to cast other spells without the runes being dispelled.

Summon Spiders
Cast on 9+
This spell summons D6 Giant Spiders on an unoccupied location, at least 1” from any enemy and within 12” of the caster. Place one spider, and group the rest around it, making ranks of at least 5 wide. This spell may also be used to replenish existing units.



Magic items

None yet...



Characters - Lords

Orc Warlord
Rules: Orc Warboss

Ogre Mage
Lvl 2 fighting ogre wizard, picks spells from lore of blood
2 headed option.

Death Knight
Lvl 3 or 4 wizard, picks spells from lore of darkness
Cannot be general
Has Touch of Darkness as attack.

Doomhammer
Dunno yet…

Gul’dan
Warlock, and mightiest caster in the army.

Grom Hellscream
Mighty Orc lord

Teron Gorefiend
Death Knight with special spells and additional magical prowess

Dentarg
Ogre mage with increased magic level and new abilities



Characters - Heroes

Orc Chieftain
Rules: Orc Big Boss

Orc Warlock
Level 1 or 2 spellcaster, picks spells from lore of blood

Zuljin
Axethrower hero

Korgath Bladefist
Mighty Orc lord



Core units

Orc Grunts

The brutal mainstay of the orcish hordes. The powerful green skinned warriors are a deadly foe, and feared by many.

Points/model: 5
Unit size: 10+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Orc Grunt 4 3 3 4 4 1 2 1 7
Champion 4 4 3 5 4 1 2 2 7

Wargear: Hand weapon and light armour

Options
• May take shields (+1 pts/model) or additional hand weapons (+2 pts/model).
• Upgrade one Grunt to a musician for +5 pts.
• Upgrade one Grunt to a standard bearer for +10 pts.
• Promote one Grunt to champion for +15 pts.



Orc Spearmen

The smaller and less stronger orcs often come equipped with light throwing spears, to supply supportive fire for the groups of grunts.

Points/model: 6
Unit size: 10+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Orc Grunt 4 3 3 3 4 1 2 1 7
Champion 4 3 4 4 4 1 2 1 7

Wargear: Throwing spear

Options
• May take shields (+1 pts/model).
• Upgrade one Spearman to a musician for +5 pts.
• Upgrade one Spearman to a standard bearer for +10 pts.
• Promote one Spearman to champion for +15 pts.


Ogre

These huge barbaric monsters are not the brightest in the army, but make up for this in sheer resilience.

Points/model: 22
Unit size: 3+
Base size: 40x40mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Ogre 6 3 2 4 4 2 2 2 7
Bonecrusher 6 3 2 4 4 2 2 3 7

Wargear: Hand weapon

Special rules: Cause fear

Options
• May be equipped with additional hand weapons for +3 points/model.
• Upgrade one Ogre to a musician for +10 pts.
• Upgrade one Ogre to a standard bearer for +15 pts.
• Promote one Ogre to Bonecrusher for +15 pts.



Troll axethrowers

The tribal Trolls are masters of the throwing axe. While these weapons are only short ranged, Trolls often have little difficulty in sneaking up close enough on their enemies to strike hard, before disappearing stealthily into the undergrowth again.

Points/model: 6
Unit size: 10+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Troll 4 3 3 3 3 1 2 1 7
Headhunter 4 3 4 3 3 1 2 1 7

Wargear: Throwing axe

Special rules: Skirmish, Scouts

Options
• Upgrade one Troll to a musician for +5 pts.
• Upgrade one Troll to a standard bearer for +10 pts.
• Promote one Troll to headhunter for +10 pts.



Peons

These are the workforce of the Horde. Though not skilled in combat, they sometimes accompany the grunts to the field of battle to provide support in numbers.

Points/model: 3
Unit size: 10+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Peon 4 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 6

Wargear: Hand weapon

Special rules: Work work!


Special units

Orc Raiders

Points/model: 20
Unit size: 5+
Base size: 25x50mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Orc Raider 4 3 3 4 4 1 2 1 7
Orc Looter 4 3 3 4 4 1 2 2 7
Black Wolf 9 3 0 4 3 1 3 1 4

Wargear: Longswords, light armour and shields

Special rules: Fast cavalry

Options
• Upgrade one Raider to a musician for +10 pts.
• Upgrade one Raider to a standard bearer for +15 pts.
• Promote one Raider to Looter for +15 pts.



2-headed ogre

Points/model: 32
Unit size: 3+
Base size: 40x40mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
2-headed Ogre 6 3 2 4 4 3 2 3 8
Bonesmasher 6 3 2 4 4 3 2 4 8

Wargear: Hand weapon

Special rules: Cause fear

Options
• May be equipped with additional hand weapons for +3 points/model.
• Upgrade one Ogre to a musician for +10 pts.
• Upgrade one Ogre to a standard bearer for +15 pts.
• Promote one Ogre to Bonesmasher for +15 pts.




Ogre Sailors

Most of the time sailing the 8 seas in crudely made Juggernaughts, the ogre sailors also sometimes lend their aid in land battles. While not being the most powerfull ogre warriors, they do carry small cannons around as if they were handguns.

Points/model: 35
Unit size: 3+
Base size: 40x40mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Ogre 6 3 2 4 4 2 2 2 7
Bonecrusher 6 3 2 4 4 2 2 3 7

Wargear: Cannon

Special rules: Cause fear

Options
• Upgrade one Ogre to a musician for +10 pts.
• Upgrade one Ogre to a standard bearer for +15 pts.
• Promote one Ogre to Bonecrusher for +15 pts.



Goblin sappers*

There are crazy people running around, but probably none as crazy as these! They laugh in the face of danger, as they run around with explosives and ready to blow themselves straight into the first foe they encounter… If they make it that far, that is.

Points/model: 25
Unit size: 1
* Note that up to 4 sappers may be bought as a single special slot
Base size: 40x40mm, several goblins on a single base
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Sappers 5 2 3 2 2 3 3 3 5

Wargear: Unstable concoctions

Special rules: EXPLODE!



Troll berserkers

These are the most well trained Troll warriors that can be found. With deadly accuracy they can slice a man’s skull with their axes. Daubed in warpaints, and growling with anger, they stalk the forests in search of prey.

Points/model: 9
Unit size: 5+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Berserker 4 3 4 3 3 1 2 1 7
Stalker 4 3 5 3 3 1 2 1 7

Wargear: Throwing axe

Special rules: Skirmish, Scouts, Berserker

Options
• Upgrade one Troll to a musician for +6 pts.
• Upgrade one Troll to a standard bearer for +12 pts.
• Promote one Troll to Stalker for +15 pts.



Catapult

The massive catapults of the horde can cause devastating damage upon massed units of rank&file warriors.

Points/model: 75
Unit size: 1
Base size: 50x75mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Catapult - - - - 7 3 - - -
Peons 4 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 6

Crew: 3 peons

Options
• The Catapult can be equipped with spiked ammo (+1S) for 10 points, or come with burning oil (flaming attacks) for 10 points.


Rare units

Goblin Zeppelin

These chunky floating balloons are a fast and safe way of carrying your units around.

Points/model: 50
Unit size: 1
Base size: 100x100mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Zeppelin - 2 3 2 4 4 3 - 8

Special rules: High flight, “I Wish I had a weapon!”, Troop Carrier



Dragon

Mighty dragons are the most powerful asset of the Orcish Horde. The terrifying creatures soar the skies, burning their victims in searing flames.

Points/model: 300
Unit size: 1
Base size: 50x100mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Dragon 6 6 0 6 6 6 3 5 8

Wargear: Claw, scale and flame. He counts as having a hand weapon, a 4+ scaly skin and a S4 breath weapon

Special rules: Fly; large target; terror

Devil
10-04-2009, 21:18
I don wanna be a negative jack ass but I gotta say it. Playing this great game is a good way of giving the finger to evil entities such as Blizzard ( a corporation which should be burned down to its foundation and the earth beneath it blessed to cleanse the world of its vile evil and greed) Warhammer is so pure and beautiful why in the hell woodya wanna tarnish it with world of borecraft?

That game is evil incarnate. That game is wicked blasphemy!! Many of our children have no clue who Abraham Lincoln was yet with unflinching certainty can tell you where the white lion spawns at in the Barrens. Please don't corrupt something as stimulating and imaginative as Warhammer is on a young mind with something that is in turn having quite the opposite effect on our children and their imaginations.

Shame on the very notion!


I'll repeat my over all message I was hoping to convey.

Warhammer is Evil. Ever see Time Bandits?

" DOn't touch it!! It's Evil".............BOOM

WarlockOMork
10-04-2009, 23:32
Yes blizzard has gone/is evil, (tho it wasnt always like that)
This isnt world of Farmcraft, this is something based on the original fun games that blizzard used to make (before they became Greed incarnate).

and anything can inspire people. even if it is, dare i say it, World of... Boringness.
its the excessive use of anything. and i do mean anything, that is bad for people.
Incl. Warhammer. if you stick all your time in that, i doubt you'll know who abraham lincoln was either.

That aside, Warhammer is slowly becomming greed incarnate as well inmo.

but back to the topic.

love the current build, tho i still think that dragons as a rare might be a bit to strong(tho less so then when you also had a Special Char Dragon). but as it stands would always take them over the zepp.

Beyond that looks more or less, well balanced.

And DoomHammer as a special Char i suggest to be a Frenzied blood thirsty Warlord/maniac.

For magic items i fear you'll either just have to think up things that would fit the fluff.
or use the WCIII ones. (as i dont think WI and WII had anything even remotly near it(aka magic items))

Charistoph
10-04-2009, 23:46
I'll repeat my over all message I was hoping to convey.

Warhammer is Evil. Ever see Time Bandits?

" DOn't touch it!! It's Evil".............BOOM

I am confused by this part. First you say that the mother of the illegitimate child is evil, but the father good, than you reiterate by saying that the father is evil? I'm sure you meant: "Warcraft is Evil." Have fun with your opinion, I enjoy Warcraft myself. :p

Equipment for Orgrin Doomhammer would have Full Plate of some kind for Armor, and then the Doomhammer, a Great Weapon Hammer, probably doesn't tank his Initiative at the least.

Hellscream tended to be the most frenzied of the Clan Chiefs, IIRC, but pretty much all of the Orcs who drank Mannoroth's blood were blood-thirsty maniacs.

Braad
11-04-2009, 14:00
Yeah, read the same thing. Seems he doesn't like both warhammer and warcraft...

Anyway, I don't think it's that bad. WOW is a nice game, and I specifically chose warhammer only because I knew I had to pick one (due to time restraints) and I was already into warhammer. WOW would have had me totally addicted though... The problem is not necissarilly in the game, but rahter in certain people who can't seperate real life from virtual life anymore... but that's a completely different discussion, so I'll leave it to that from now...

@ WarlockOMork
Yeah... dragons might be a bit too powerfull... Would it be a good idea maybe, to make them 2 rares? Or maybe 1 per full 2000 points, to allow for the use of zeppelins?

Personally I'd love to give the zeppeling something like a gun, to give it some more use than just the drop off, but certain influentual people seem te be very much against that :D

About the special chars, I think it would be nice to give Doomhammer Hatred, and Hellscream frenzy. Right?

Stronginthearm
11-04-2009, 16:42
I don wanna be a negative jack ass but I gotta say it. Playing this great game is a good way of giving the finger to evil entities such as Blizzard ( a corporation which should be burned down to its foundation and the earth beneath it blessed to cleanse the world of its vile evil and greed)
Unfortunetely I have to agree with you here, but remember that this wasn't always the case I thoroughly enjoyed WC1 & 2 but WC3 and WoW have taken what used to be an awesome game and thoroughly ****** with it, I like the idea of building a warhammer army outta the first two but if it continues to three then I will be stuck with the raving fanatics of WoW haters criticizing it

Not to be negative or anything:D

Braad
11-04-2009, 17:20
Don't worry. We're stuck at 1 and 2 at the moment.

Anyway, back to the original topic... you can moan about WOW in the random muzings bit.

I'm currently not having much inspiration for magic items. Any suggestions would be very useful!
I'll include a few with the more or less standard effects like +1S or +1A stuff, but a few juicy ones with original effects would be very cool.

WarlockOMork
12-04-2009, 01:33
Item idea's

Caer Darrow Runestone's
Runestones are large blocks of rock carved with powerful runes of elven magic. They were placed by high elven druid magi to
mark the boundaries of their new kingdom, Quel'Thalas, and to create a magical barrier that stopped the use of arcane magic
from being sensed by the Burning Legion. After beeing wrecked by gul'dan. (its a mission Yay!)
He Carved from the Runestones of Caer Darrow, the Altar of Storms, wich channels dark and arcane energies
and pervert the innate elven magiks of the Runestone. Are now used to create the powers of the ogre-magi. It is here that
the ogre-magi are imbued with new spells, skills and magical power to aid them in their fight against the Alliance.
The Altars are avoided by the rest of the Horde as the intense energies that emanate from their
cold surfaces can be...unhealthy.
(Magic bonus, Defensive effect, Negative effect to others in x", ogres only?)(Arcane item)

Vail of Beserker chemicals: (the chemicals made by goblin alchemists used to make trolls into beserkers
effectively transforming them into a veritable whirling cyclone of death and destruction.)
These potions enable them to throw their axes greater distances or sharpen their sight. It is also said that the speed
at which healing occurs is increased if the correct potion is ingested. This process of regeneration is one of the most
distinct and unbelievable powers of the Troll Berserkers. (or make it simply grant the beserker rules to said char)
(can be given to more then one char/aka not just one per army)(enchanted?) (30pts?)

Runic Writhings: The most powerful spell ever rumored to exist. Legends say that the caster would have the ability to summon
forth a daemon by allowing his body to be sacrificed to enable its existence in this plane. The daemon would then be guided
by the spirit of the caster to do his bidding, but should the daemon be destroyed, the warlock’s life would be forfeit.
The truth to this tale is questionable, but the incantations and rituals used to summon the creature may lay in these
runic writings.
(summon semi big demon on X+, but require to share wounds between the two chars, aka if 1 loses a W so does the other, if one dies
remove both, 100pts?) (Arcane?)

Spiders Venom?:
The Warlock Clan have used their magiks to create the hideous abomination that they call spiders. Mutated from the smaller
creatures commonly found in the area, these huge poison fanged beasts are twisted and predatory. While some are controlled
by the Warlocks, many grow too large to maintain control over, and are released into the forbidden lands. These giant
spiders lurk in dark, dank places and spin their webs, seeking to entrap the unwary.
These Hunters of the underground, are as venomous and deadly as any creation of the Warlocks. they inject their prey with a
deadly and painful poison into the unfortunate.
(Can coat, a weapon in it. gives Some semi intresting poison like effect)(can give this effect to multiple chars/aka more
then one char in the army can have this item) (Enchanted item?) (points cost, quite cheap?)

Shadow Spear: (it your not implementing it as a spell, why not as a magic item, as thats kinda what it is, originaly a
necrolye weapon, so usuable by warlocksand Death knights?) when an orc dies, his essence is divided into good and evil,
necro's have learned to siphon these energies. This weapon of darkness is a manifestation of those black souls, and causes
excrciating pain to those it strikes) (Spear, if hit, and enemy hasnt fought yet, he cant fight back?) (Weapon, 35pts?)

Cloak/armour of Blackhand
blackhand was the one to best rally and control the horde, he ruled with iron hand,
A ruthless dictator who inspired awe and terror in his warriors.
(Enchanted/Armour, Give +1 ld? or re-roll panics? (ignore animosity when he's your general or something?) unsure.Pts)

jeweled truncheon: Used by death knights through which they could better focus the unearthly powers they
would brandish. Into these jewels were infused the raw, necromantic magiks of the freshly slain Necrolytes.
(Weapon/Arcane?)

(meh getting less and less buggered to write up all the lore items i can think off in full so here is the rest in short)

Tome of Necromancy. (A Warcraft lore, psuedo invented by gul'dan (indirectly trough kill'jeaden)(Death knights train
in these arts). (counts as a Lvl 1 wiz in Necromancy/Death knight lore). (Enchanted) (40pts)

Giant rock: (thrown weapon ogre only, its how ogres train, rock hurling or crushing contests,
also helpes train others because any who come near such training ogres find themselves the quicker for it)

Troll lumber mill chemicals: (needs a better name) (the chemicals used by trolls to deaden and weaken wood
for easy harvast & extremly hazourdes to peon and earth alike)

Mighty Chains of Adamentine Steel: (needs a better name) magic item used to bind the most powerfull creature in all of azeroth,
Alexstrasza the dragon Queen, Captured and ensorcelled by magicks. (designed by the dragonmaw clan) (so they can raise whelps as mounts)

Tomb of Sargeras. (contains Remains and stash of demon that give Great magical powers)
Containes, Bones of Sargeras, Jeweled Scepter of Sargeras, & Eye of sargeras afaik.

Nether Charm. (The Twisting nether, the place magic comes from, but powerfull arcane energies)

Mantle of the Warchief. (the mantle a new Warchief of the horde aquires, along with the horned throne.)

Kilrogg's Deadeye. (something i just randomly came up with, its in my one of my previous posts, zipping eye of spell line of
sight)

Blade(or such) of Garona: (was a half-orc assassin of the horde, who knows)

Twilight's hammer: (A clan name, clan known for the destruction of all that they encounter, could make a nice weapon)

Goblin explosives:

tankard of Bloodmead: (your avarage orc's favourite Drink.)

Ironwood thingybob: (the material trolls lumber mills are made of extremly tough) (would make a good magic shield/armour)

Juggernaught Armour: (geuss, its the masive armour plates where juggernaughts are made of)

maybe also have Clan names, like Ogre names. tho i dont think it would work well, rarely do clans fight together unless
under the leadership of the Warchief. Could use as magic banner idea's tho.

Light throwing Axe: (troll upgrade. Extra range, not magical)

Ornate metal runes/mystic symbols: (These are usualy used in a warlocks spells of summoning. +1 to Summoning skeletons?)

Blackroot altar: ( A sacreficial altar made from the mystic blackroot, used in necrolyte rituals)(Sacrefice orcs/peons stuff for extra dice?).

Gauntelt of blackhand: he was kinda Known for wearing a big black spiked gauntlet

the blood of Mannoroth: Take a geuss.



Also i'd like to add From the Shadows and light book
(A Warhammer RPG D20 game book, quite fun, and also quite an old book tho it does go up to WC III in lore.)
(so just cut out what was after II)

Grommash "Grom" Hellscream was the chieftain of the Warsong Clan, a powerful blademaster. He was one of the chieftains who
had gladly taken the blood of Mannoroth the Destructor, thus binding the Horde to the Burning Legion — and he would
eventually pay the ultimate price to free himself and his people from the curse.

Personality
Grom Hellscream moves with a warrior’s grace and his reflexes are fast and abrupt. He is proud of his achievements but
willingly serves Thrall (or any other master), as he is content in his role as chieftain of the Warsongs. Grom is honorable
and admires his enemies’ fighting prowess. He is devoted to his race and his traditions. Though Thrall has calmed his soul,
Grom still seethes with suppressed rage. He speaks with a deep, guttural voice that is used to command. Combat

Grom is devastating in melee and he knows it. He eagerly charges into the thickest part of any battle, giving in to his
rage, and lays waste with the mighty Gorehowl. Though he knows that slaying enemy wizards and healers is to his tactical
advantage, he cannot resist going toe-to-toe against powerful melee fighters. Against such opponents he uses his critical
strike and maximum damage abilities, and uses blade whirlwind when lesser foes surround him.
Gorehowl

Grom's axe was called Gorehowl. After slaying Mannoroth, the axe disappeared from lore.


Also from Shadow and light.

DoomHammer.

Personality
Doomhammer is a warrior born, his leadership ability forged in combat. He is unendingly loyal to those who prove their
strength and service, but quick to avenge himself on those who attack him or his allies. Among the orcs, his gruff, curt
manner is respected, but to others he can seem dismissive and contemptuous. Understanding the value of protecting an army’s
leadership, battles often found Doomhammer in a far-off command tent. Yet whenever possible, he is a howling, bloodthirsty
presence on the front lines, personally leading his troops to victory. Though he is a towering presence in his black armor,
Doomhammer can hide himself completely in as simple a disguise as a tattered cloak in order to move undetected among his
enemies.

Combat
Doomhammer doesn’t hesitate to strike the first blow in combat, usually striking from surprise using one of the Blackhand’s
fangs hanging from his belt. Wielding the Doomhammer, he leaps fearlessly into any number of enemies and becomes a
whirlwind of destruction. Distrustful of spellcasters but confident in his armor, Doomhammer usually first attempts to kill
any wizards among his enemies. On occasion, he will save the strongest among his enemies for last, relishing the chance to
hone his martial skill against a worthy opponent

Doomhammer’s Plate
This half-plate armor was of course once worn into battle by the mighty Doomhammer. The armor is a black iron and mithril
alloy, giving the armor an overall dull black appearance.

Zhum... long post. Meh.

oh and lastly about dragons. just to make it a bit longer. think 2 rare choices i personaly 'd still take em, but if only 1 per 2000, to fill my last rare i might as well take it(a zeppelin) :)

Charistoph
12-04-2009, 05:59
Item idea's
Grommash "Grom" Hellscream was the chieftain of the Warsong Clan, a powerful blademaster. He was one of the chieftains who
had gladly taken the blood of Mannoroth the Destructor, thus binding the Horde to the Burning Legion — and he would
eventually pay the ultimate price to free himself and his people from the curse.

Personality
Grom Hellscream moves with a warrior’s grace and his reflexes are fast and abrupt. He is proud of his achievements but
willingly serves Thrall (or any other master), as he is content in his role as chieftain of the Warsongs. Grom is honorable
and admires his enemies’ fighting prowess. He is devoted to his race and his traditions. Though Thrall has calmed his soul,
Grom still seethes with suppressed rage. He speaks with a deep, guttural voice that is used to command. Combat

Grom is devastating in melee and he knows it. He eagerly charges into the thickest part of any battle, giving in to his
rage, and lays waste with the mighty Gorehowl. Though he knows that slaying enemy wizards and healers is to his tactical
advantage, he cannot resist going toe-to-toe against powerful melee fighters. Against such opponents he uses his critical
strike and maximum damage abilities, and uses blade whirlwind when lesser foes surround him.
Gorehowl

Grom's axe was called Gorehowl. After slaying Mannoroth, the axe disappeared from lore.


Hmm, special rules would point towards Frenzy and Always Challenge on him.

Whirlwind attack could be that he reduces his WS and/or S by x, but increases his attacks by 2x resolved against the entire unit, if in btb with more than one unit, both units suffer the full attack, cannot be used in consecutive turns, attacks for next turn are reduced by 1 while he recovers?

Braad
12-04-2009, 08:18
This is great stuff, WarlockOMork! I read part of it, and sounds very good! We'll have some easter-thingy with the family this morning, but after that I'll certianly make some time to have a better look and put a lot of it in the list.

@ Charistoph
Whirlwind... I could imagine this indeed to give extra attacks, but since he let down his defences to do so, give his opponent a +1 to hit and/or wound.

Braad
13-04-2009, 12:18
Did some work on the magic items that WarlockOMork proposed, and added a few:

Magic Weapons

Stormreaver Axe, 50 points
These mighty axes were inscribed with runic writing by Gul’Dan himself and gifted to his lieutenants.
These axes confer +1S and +1A for each enemy standard bearer and battle standard within 10”.

Burning Blade, 50 points
This is the symbolic weapon of the Chieftains of the Burning Blade Clan. These Orcs are more an elemental force of nature then an actual clan, living only for unholy rage and frenzy.
This Blade confers frenzy to its bearer. Instead of the normal +1 attack it confers +D3 attacks, and these are made at a +1 to hit modifier. This frenzy can never be lost. If he is mounted, the mount gains normal frenzy.

Twilight Hammer, 30 points
The mystical symbol of the Twilight Hammer Clan. This vile and crude weapon is covered in the blood of many victims.
Gives the killing blow ability to the bearer.

Shadow Spear (Warlock or Death Knight only), 25 points
At the death of an orc, his essences are divided into good and evil. The Orcish necromancers have learned how to siphon these energies and manifest them into a magic weapon.
This weapon gives the bearer a ranged attack. It counts as a thrown weapon at a range of 12”, at a strength of 5, with no armour saves and regeneration allowed. It inflicts D6 instead of 1 wound upon the target.

Assassins Blade of Garona, 20 points
Garano, a female half-orc, was a stealthy assassin.
This blade confers +1 attack to the bearer and makes his close combat attacks poisonous.

Gauntlet of Blackhand, 20 points
Blackhand has always been famous for wearing a huge spiked gauntlet, which he often put to good use to smash any opponents skull.
Confers +1 strenght to the bearer

Giant rock (Ogre Mages only), 10 points
Ogres train themselves by hurling huge rocks. These skills can also aid them in combat. Ogre mages sometimes carry magically imbued rocks to battle.
Gives the Ogre a ranged attack, which is treated to be at the strength of the user and at a range of 8”.



Magic Armour

Armour of Blackhand, 25 points
Blackhand was the one to best rally and control the horde and he ruled with iron fist.
A ruthless dictator who inspired awe and terror in his warriors.
Fleeing was not an option under the rule of Blackhand. A hero carrying this armour and the unit he is with may re-roll their break tests.

Ironwood shield, 25 points
Few things are as touch as those from made from Ironwood.
Shield. A hit can never cause more than 1 wound on a character carrying an Ironwood shield (so D6 rolls for e.g. cannons are not made).

Juggernaught Armour, 20 points
Massive iron boards taken from stranded Juggernaughts, and beaten into crude breastplates.
Counts as full plate armour (+3 to AS).



Talismans

Nether Charm (wizards only), 50 points
The Netherworld is the place where magic powers originate from. This charm directly taps into these powers and bestows them upon the bearer.
+2 to any casting rolls

Mantle of the Warchief (Orc Warlords and Chieftains only), 50 points
When a new Warchief is installed in a clan, he obtains the magical mantle that goes from leader to leader.
This mantle emanates an aura of leadership. If given to the general, his leadership range is increased to 18”. If another character is given such a mantle, he gains the same abilities as the general with regard to lending his leadership to other, and this effect has a range of 6”.

Tome of Necromancy (non-magical characters only), 35 points
A giant lore, partially written by Gul’Dan.
This giant magical tome gives the bearer a magic level of 1, and he may roll a spell from the Lore of Darkness.

Runic Talismans (may be taken by more than one character), 20 points
Many runic talismans can be found, some more powerfull than other. Roll a D6 to determine its effect:
D6 Effect
1 Grants the bearer a 4+ ward save
2-3 Grants +2 attacks
4-6 Allows the bearer to re-roll failed rolls to hit



Arcane Items

Runic Writhings, 50 points
The most powerful spell ever rumored to exist. A daemon is summoned and will do the casters bidding, but to a great cost.
One use only. Can be activated at the start of a turn, and summons a daemon from the Netherworld. This daemon has the following stats:
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Daemon 5 5 0 5 4 4 3 4 8
And has the special rules Fly, Stubborn and Terror and carries a Daemonsword that confers either +1 attack or +1 strenght (pick one before each round of combat) and flaming attacks.
The caster however sacrifices his body, and binds his soul to the daemon. He becomes ethereal and looses half of his attacks and -1 to his strenght. When the character dies, so does the Daemon and vise versa.

Jeweled Truncheon (Death Knights and Warlocks only), 50 points
Used by death knights through which they could better focus the unearthly powers they
would brandish. Into these jewels were infused the raw, necromantic magiks of the freshly slain Necrolytes.
Adds +1 dice to the first spell cast by the bearer.

Mystic symbols, 30 points
Glowing mystical symbols are often used in dark spells and empower the bodies of those created by it..
After randomly rolling spells, the bearer of Mystic symbols may not only swap 1 of his spells to the first spell of the lore, but also to either Raise Dead or Summon Spiders, depending on the lore. It also adds +1 spider or +2 skeletons to the unit for each time the spell is cast successfully.

Caer Darrow Runestones (Ogre Mages only), 25 points
Runestones are large blocks of rock carved with powerful runes of elven magic. After being defiled by Gul’Dan, he carved the Altar of Storms from the runestones to empower the Ogres with evil Magiks. Shards from these rocks are carried around by Ogre Mages to assist in their powers.
Adds +1 to their casting rolls.



Enchanted Items

Chains of Adamentine Steel, 55 points
These chains where used to bind the most powerful creature in all of azeroth, Alexstrasza the dragon Queen, captured and ensorcelled by magicks and used by the Dragonmaw clan to breed there army of dragons.
A character with this item may use one dragon, bought as a rare choice for 300 points, as a mount instead of the normal mount choices.

Vial of Beserker chemicals, 30 points
The ritual that is involved in training a Troll into a Berserker involves various chemicals concoctions, and one of the most specific traits gained by Berserkers is the regeneration.
Gives the user regeneration on a 5+.

Spiders Venom, 25 points
The Warlock Clan have used their magiks to create the hideous abominations that they call spiders. Mutated from the smaller creatures commonly found in the area, these huge poison fanged beasts are twisted and predatory.
A poisonous liquid distilled from certain organs of these spiders, can be used to daub weapons in. It grants the bearer poisonous attacks on a 5+.

Tankard of Bloodmead (unmounted characters only), 30 points.
Every Orc likes a good pint of Bloodmead, as it strengthens the senses before battle. When a cunning chief gives his bodyguard a tankard of this stuff before battle, they are likely to start combat in a bit of an ‘elevated’ state.
A character with this item must be deployed in a unit, and he may not leave this unit during the game. He and the unit count as being stubborn for the entirety of the battle.



Magic Standards

Standard of the Horde, 50 points
All shall tremble under the mighty banner of the Horde
This banner gives fear to the bearer and the unit he is with.

The bloodbanner of Mannoroth, 40 points
Daubed in the blood of Mannoroth himself, this banner eminates a crazing aura of bloodlust.
The standard carrying this banner and the unit he currently is with gain +1 strenght.

WarlockOMork
13-04-2009, 13:44
Nice write up. looks a lot like what i assumed it'd look like.
Love the runic talisman. i like supprise items like that. especialy one i can gear my entire army with :).

your putting in lots of work , almost makes me wish it was a real army i could play with or against.


Ps also looks a lot like a fix of the greenskin/other armies item lists :p
Like stormreaver axe, and the burning blade rules set, not that i mind.
its actualy a good idea, as then you get a good idea to what the points more or less should be.

Edit:
Jeweled Truncheon (Death Knights and Warlocks only), 50 points
Used by death knights through which they could better focus the unearthly powers they
would brandish. Into these jewels were infused the raw, necromantic magiks of the freshly slain Necrolytes.
Adds +1 dice to the first spell cast by the bearer.

I hope this is +1 dice to the first spell cast by the bearer EACH PHASE. as other wise im better off just buying a powerstone or two.

Toomanymind
13-04-2009, 14:22
Tehe, goblin sappers.:p

Charistoph
13-04-2009, 16:02
Could also give anything with Mannorath's blood (like the Banner) makes the unit's attacks Magical. I know this is more from War 3 lore, but...

Ultimate Life Form
13-04-2009, 17:47
Oh well. There I´m gone for a few days, and look what happens! Everything´s good to go! All I wanted to know is how to make War II Ogres from Warhammer stuff, and people start developing an entire army for me. I´m amazed!:D

I liked the posts about Blizzard´s evilness. These few days made me realize how much I loved the old games. Was a huge part of my life, and War III drove me off... Have been listening to War I soundtrack all the time... Best soundtrack in the series... those memories...:cries:

Looking at the sprites I posted, have you realized how Blizzard Orcs are bleaching? War I, their skin was saturated with dark green colour. Makes them look EVIL, and is a nice contrast to their glowing red eyes. Next, look at Braads avatar from War II. Still a dark green, but considerably lighter. Still looks good. War III, Orcs were now lime-green? Made me rub my eyes when I first saw it. Well, but seeing how they have either pink or red skin nowadays, I think it´s proof that things can always get worse.

Well, back on topic. I LOVE it! I can´t say anything else! It´s GREAT, guys! Let´s do it. A liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle thing or two though...

Those Ogre sailors... I wonder where you got the idea for those?:confused: I think they are an unnecessary addition to the army, but as long as I´m not forced to take them, I´m fine.:)

And I don´t like the Lore for the Ogre Magi. In fact, I want to be able to field Warlocks and Necrolytes. I dig them. I think it would be better to split the Lore. Let the Ogres know their three spells, and the Necrolytes and Warlocks as well. Everyone gets their own Lore and knows all spells. I would like that better.

Good stuff though! Thank you all for this!:D

Braad
13-04-2009, 17:53
Could also give anything with Mannorath's blood (like the Banner) makes the unit's Magical. I know this is more from War 3 lore, but...

What exactly do you mean? Make the unit magical?




Love the runic talisman. i like supprise items like that. especialy one i can gear my entire army with :).

I like them too. Especially when there is no negative effect, like with certain other items... :p



your putting in lots of work , almost makes me wish it was a real army i could play with or against.

Who's stopping you?
People really should stop thinking that the rules presented by GW are something set in stone. Why not make up your own set of rules? As long as you have people that don't mind playing with/against it, everything is just fine!
And this list probably will need some balancing, so if people want to try it, that's only a very good thing!
I'll try to pop out the characters in the coming few days, so that the list is playable.

On a side note, I'm also working on a list for a Troll army, and about 4 rules-sheets for new units for my O&G army (and ofcourse, plans for cool converted stuff to go with that!). So yeah, it's something I like doing :D Opens up great new ways to let my inspiration go crazy.



Ps also looks a lot like a fix of the greenskin/other armies item lists :p
Like stormreaver axe, and the burning blade rules set, not that i mind.
its actualy a good idea, as then you get a good idea to what the points more or less should be.

Indeed. When you go too far from existing stuff, balance will be very difficult. Also, there are only so much effects you can use without having to write a full page of fluff. I rather use existing rules as much as possible.
I specifically changed the effects a bit though, to make them unique.


I hope this is +1 dice to the first spell cast by the bearer EACH PHASE. as other wise im better off just buying a powerstone or two.

Yes, indeed, every phase. I'll change the wording.

Braad
13-04-2009, 17:58
Ow look, while I was typing, Ultimate came along...


Oh well. There I´m gone for a few days, and look what happens! Everything´s good to go! All I wanted to know is how to make War II Ogres from Warhammer stuff, and people start developing an entire army for me. I´m amazed!:D


Well, back on topic. I LOVE it! I can´t say anything else! It´s GREAT, guys! Let´s do it. A liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle thing or two though...

Well, glad you like it. I loved making it. As I said above, I'll try to fix the character section soon, so that the list becomes playable.


Those Ogre sailors... I wonder where you got the idea for those?:confused: I think they are an unnecessary addition to the army, but as long as I´m not forced to take them, I´m fine.:)

I think my love for leadbelchers kicked in a bit... Also I was searching for a way to include a bit about WCII seafaring, without having to pop-out rules for entire fleets :p If you don't mind, I'll leave them in. Gives me a nice excuse to go buy some leadbelchers some day :)
Also fills up the lack for bolt throwers a bit, I think, as the catapult is otherwise the only true artillery they got.


And I don´t like the Lore for the Ogre Magi. In fact, I want to be able to field Warlocks and Necrolytes. I dig them. I think it would be better to split the Lore. Let the Ogres know their three spells, and the Necrolytes and Warlocks as well. Everyone gets their own Lore and knows all spells. I would like that better.

Hmm, interesting idea. I'll see what I can do with that when I get busy with the characters.
Would it be a good idea to puit in necrolytes and give them acces to the same lore as the death knights? And then maybe make the warlocks level 2 wizard-warriors? Or is that unfluffy?

Ultimate Life Form
13-04-2009, 19:21
The mighty Ultimate Life Form says...

Necrolyte: Orc stats. Lv2 Spellcaster. Uses the Unholy Armor and Raise Dead Spells from the Death Knight Lore and the Dark Vision Spell from the Magi Lore. Don´t know if we call it a separate Lore or leave it at that.

Warlock: Orc stats. Lv4 Spellcaster. Uses the Summon Spiders spell, plus the Poison Cloud Spell:

8+ (?)

Place the big template over a unit within 24". Everything beneath it suffers a S3 poison hit. During each Magic Phase, roll the Artillery and Scatter dice and move the template accordingly. On a Misfire, the spell ends.


Summon Daemon:

Bound Spell 12

A mighty Daemon enters the Battlefield (something like a toned-down Bloodthirster without Flying) and is placed next to the Warlock. The Spell automatically works. However, it cannot be used if the Warlock has already cast something during this Magic Phase or if there is already a Daemon in play for this Warlock. Only 1 Daemon per Warlock! Nothing else can be cast by the Warlock in a magic phase when he attempts to summon a Daemon.

(Not sure if this works. You are free to alter it as you see fit.)

Edit: I think every Clan should have it´s unique item, like the Twilight´s Hammer! Keep coming! (Blackrock, Shattered Hand, Shadowmoon, Bleeding Hollow... c´mon! These should be able to inspire you!)

Braad
13-04-2009, 19:25
And me again...
I've added the generic characters to the list, changed the magic section a bit, and added a few other things. All that is left now is corrections and the special characters, but the list should be playable as it stands now...
I'll only give the changes here (excluding a few minor corrections):

---EDIT---

Haha, Ultimate, you posted just before me! Seems I more or less already did what you just suggested. We think alike...

---END EDIT---

Weapons section:

Daemonsword
The Daemons that can be summoned by the Horde, carry powerful Daemonswords. These confer either +1 strenght or +1 attack upon the Daemon. Pick again each round of close combat. In addition they grant flaming attacks.

Touch of Darkness
The Death Knights don’t physically attack their opponents, but instead let their chilling cold souls touch those of their opponents, draining their life and courage. The Touch of Darkness counts as a hand weapon in all respects. However, when they cause 1 or more wounds, the unit of the wounded model has a -1 leadership modifier if they have to take a break test that turn.



Horde magic

Casters from the Horde use only their own spell lores. Death knights and Necrolytes randomly generate spells from the Lore of Darkness; Ogre and Warlock characters both know all their spells from their respective lores: the Lore of Blood and the Lore of Chaos.

Lore of Darkness

Death Coil
Cast on 5+
Magic missile. Does D6 Strength 3 hits with no armour saves allowed. If the missile causes at least one wound, the spell steals life and gives this to the Death Knight. He gains +1 wound each time, up to a maximum of double his starting number of wounds.

Raise Dead
Cast on 7+
Pick an unoccupied spot, at least 1” from any enemy unit, and within 12” of the caster. Place one skeleton at this location, and group the rest the rest of the unit around. Ranks have to be at least 5 wide. Creates 2D6 skeletons. This spell may also be used to replenish existing units.

Haste
Cast on 7+
One friendly unit within 12” may immediately make a free move, at their normal movement rate. No march, and difficult terrain modifiers must be applied. If they come in contact with an enemy, they count as charging. If the unit is already engaged in combat, they count as having ASF in the next combat phase.

Unholy Armour
Cast on 8+
This spell can be cast on any friendly character within 18”, even if in close combat, except on the caster himself. The target looses 1 wound, but gains a 2+ ward save until the players next magic phase.

Death and Decay
Cast on 8+, remains in play
May be cast on one enemy unit within 18” and within line of sight, even when it is in engaged in close combat. This unit must roll a D6 for every model in the unit, and on the roll of a 6 the model dies, with no armour saves allowed. Roll again at the end of each following magic phase (both the caster’s and the opponent’s phase) if the spell is not dispelled. The second time models die on a 5+, the third time on a 4+, and so on. From the fifth time on, the models keep dying on a 2+.

Whirlwind
Cast on 11+, remains in play
Summons a mighty tornado. Mark a spot, and scatter with the artillery and scatter dice. A hit is treated as a scatter instead, and moved in the direction of the tiny arrow. A misfire counts as 0” instead. Place the 5” template on the spot. Any model fully under the template sustains a S5 hit. Any model partially under the template is hit on a 4+. 1 model (partially) under the hole in the template is considered to be in the eye of the storm, and is not hit at all. If more models are partially under the hole, the controlling player decides which one to keep safe.
At the end of the next caster’s magic phase, roll a D6. On a 1-3 the tornado ends. On a 4+, scatter the tornado and work out damage again as described above. The tornado can also be ended according to the normal rules for remains in play.



Lore of Blood

Blood Lust
Cast on 7+
Cast on any friendly unit within 12”, even if engaged in close combat. The unit receives +1S for the duration of this turn, up to a maximum of 10. A unit can only be affected once at a time by this spell.

Eye of Killrog
Cast on 8+
Target one enemy unit within 24" and LOS, even when in close combat. A character in a unit cannot be targeted seperately. If succesful, this unit counts as being a large target for all purposes of targeting in the next friendly shooting phase.

Runes
Cast on 8+, remains in play
Cast this spell on a location within 18” of the caster. This location must be unoccupied so that you can place the small …” blast template at this location without touching any unit. Any unit (friend or foe) that comes in contact with the template sustains D6 S4 hits, with no armour saves allowed. The spell is dispelled right after causing damage once.
Even though this spell remains in play, it allows the caster to cast other spells without the runes being dispelled.



Lore of Chaos

Fireball
Cast on 5+
Magic missile with 24” range. Causes D6 S4 hits.

Poison Cloud
Cast on 7+, remains in play
Target any location within 12”. Place the large 5” template on this location. Every model, friend or foe, that is hit by the template, receives a S2 hit.
At the end of each subsequent magic phase in which the poison cloud is not dispelled, scatter the cloud D6” and re-apply the effects.

Summon Spiders
Cast on 9+
This spell summons D6 Giant Spiders on an unoccupied location, at least 1” from any enemy and within 12” of the caster. Place one spider, and group the rest around it, making ranks of at least 5 wide. This spell may also be used to replenish existing units.



Characters - Lords

Orc Warlord

Points/model: 125
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Orc Grunt 4 6 3 6 5 3 4 4 9

Wargear: Hand weapon

Options
• May choose a great weapon (+16 pts) or an additional hand weapon (+8 pts).
• May carry light armour for 4 points or heavy armour for 8 pts. May also carry a shield for 4 points.
• May ride a Black Wolf for 32 points.
• May choose magic items for up to 100 points.



2-headed Ogre Mage

Points/model: 200
Base size: 40x40mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Ogre Mage 6 5 3 6 6 4 2 5 9

Wargear: Hand weapon

Special rules: Cause fear

Options
• May choose a great weapon (+16 pts) or an additional hand weapon (+8 pts).
• May carry a shield (+4 pts).
• May choose magic items for up to 100 points.

Magic
A 2-headed Ogre Mage is a level 2 spellcaster who knows all the spells from the Lore of Blood.



Death Knight

Points/model: 180
Base size: 25x50mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Ogre Mage 3 3 3 4 4 3 1 3 8

Wargear: Touch of Darkness, light armour and mounted on a Death Steed

Special rules: Cause fear, Immune to Psychology

Options
• May choose magic items for up to 100 points.

Magic
A Death Knight is a level 3 spellcaster who randomly selects spells from the lore of Darkness
• May upgrade to level 4 for 35 points.



Characters - Heroes

Orc Chieftain

Points/model: 75
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Chieftain 4 5 3 5 5 2 3 3 8

Wargear: Hand weapon

Options
• May choose a great weapon (+8 pts) or an additional hand weapon (+4 pts).
• May carry light armour for 2 points. May also carry a shield for 2 points.
• May ride a Black Wolf for 16 points.
• May choose magic items for up to 50 points.

Battle Standard Bearer
One Chieftain may be the Battle Standard Bearer for +25 points.
He cannot be the armies general, even if his leadership value is the highest.
He may not choose an additional hand weapon or a great weapon. If he has a magic banner, he may not take any magical equipment.



Orc Warlock

Points/model: 180
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Warlock 4 3 3 4 4 2 3 2 7

Wargear: Hand weapon and light armour

Options
• He may choose magic items for up to 50 points.

Magic
The Warlock is a level 1 wizard who knows all the spells from the Lore of Chaos.
• May upgrade to level 2 for 50 points
• Any warlock may summon a Daemon once in a game. While attempting to do so, he may not cast any other spells. The summoning is treated as a bound spell with power level 8. If not dispelled, A Daemon is placed on an unoccupied location, at least 1” from any other unit. This Daemon exists D3+1 turns (excluding the current) from this moment on. Remove at the end of the last turn.



Orc Necrolyte

Points/model: 65
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Necrolyte 4 2 2 3 3 2 3 1 7

Wargear: Hand Weapon

Options
• He may choose magic items for up to 50 points.

Magic
The Necrolyte is a level 1 wizard who can randomly select spells from the Lore of Darkness.
• May upgrade to level 2 for 35 points.



Character Mounts

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Black Wolf 9 3 0 4 3 1 3 1 4
Death Steed 8 3 0 3 3 1 2 1 6



Magic Creatures

Skeleton

Points/model: -
Unit size: 1+
Base size: 20x20mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Skeleton 4 2 2 3 3 1 1 1 6

Wargear: Hand Weapon

Special rules: Unbreakable; Fear



Giant Spiders

Points/model: -
Unit size: 1+
Base size: 25x50mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Giant Spider 7 3 0 3 3 1 4 2 6

Wargear: Fang and claw

Special rules: Unbreakable; Fear; Poison



Deamon

Points/model: -
Unit size: 1
Base size: 40x40mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Daemon 5 5 0 5 4 4 3 4 8

Wargear: Daemonsword

Special rules: Fly, Stubborn, Terror

Charistoph
13-04-2009, 19:31
What exactly do you mean? Make the unit magical?


Hehe, make the unit's attacks magical, sorry, I updated the post with the correction. It was the whole point of the post and I left out the most important word.

WarlockOMork
13-04-2009, 19:49
The demons seem a bit underpowered lore wise,
but i can see why, because else they might be a bit overpowered game wise.

oh and suggest that blood lust adds +1s to any attack type(not quite sure how to word this rules wise),
but i mean to ranged attacks as well as offensive spells and such.
seeing how in game blood lust also worked when buffing archers and mages and stuff.

and add some option of beeing able to carry a magic banner to either a core or special choice.
personaly Hate it when the only guy that can carry one is the BSB.

and lastly the Magic gauntlet, 20pts for something the sword of might does for 10-15pts.
only usefull if they dont have access to the common magic items wich i doubt.
So needs altering a bit.
something like an additional small extra bonus. +1ws/-1 extra armour save/+1I/or such.

another two cents. (a few more times and i can swim in em.)

Ultimate Life Form
13-04-2009, 20:01
oh and suggest that blood lust adds +1s to any attack type(not quite sure how to word this rules wise),
but i mean to ranged attacks as well as offensive spells and such.
seeing how in game blood lust also worked when buffing archers and mages and stuff.


:confused: I consider this more a bug than anything else. Games back then weren´t as perfect as nowadays; we don´t need to copy every single piece of brokenness, or we´ll end up having a DoC army.

I´ve seen a collection of weird things you could do on the web. For example:

Cast the Swirly Fire Shield Thingy Spell on an enemy worker. As soon as the worker starts constructing a building, the Spell doesn´t know where to go, sticks to the building and damages it all the time.

I also found an interesting use for the Death Knight Hero in War III:

Build a Death Knight, let him learn the "Speed up Friendly Troops" Aura and place him in the middle of your base. Considerably speeds up your wood-collecting Ghouls, esp. on Level3!:D

Btw, did you like your Forest Goblin Warband?

WarlockOMork
13-04-2009, 20:22
didnt realize that was a bug. 't was very usefull tho :cheese:

and Yeah, (thanks a bunch).tho im running it more or less nightgoblins, (forest goblin rules, night goblin convertyness).
Isnt doing as awsome as my old dwarf one, but i just like goblins more :)

Braad
13-04-2009, 21:37
Some good points here, I'll try to work on it tomorrow.
I don't think bloodlust should have effect on ranged units though... probably is a but much.
True about that magic gauntlet though.

But...
Forest goblin warbands? Tell me more :)

WarlockOMork
13-04-2009, 21:50
oh make it a weapon that adds armour (6+, combinable with other stuff, that'd be quite a unique item) ^^

am playing a mordheim campaign with some mates, and they banned me from playing my dwarves, as they(the dwarves) always won.
(and in their defence was kinda boring to play against, you'd never reach them, and even if you did reach them they where so armour clad you'd rarely get them to stay down, and even if you got them to stay down they'd rarely die, (Dwarfs get a re-roll on the injury chart(it almost became a buff chart)) )

so i went looking for a diffrent warband,
and encountered a thread about someone wanting a more supported warhammer skirmish, i recomended Mordheim,
and it slowly became a Warbands/Mordheim thread,

in it i ended one of my posts with great game, i only wish there was a goblin warband.

Ultimate, mentioned there was one, but didnt know exactly where.

but knowing there was one i went out and searched for it.

Found it, and since, i've been playing with it.

mighty fun, tho not as powerfull. (exactly the way i like it)

Ultimate Life Form
14-04-2009, 07:43
Yes, that´s the whole story. Now this is an absolute exception, and we´re NOT gonna change this into a Mordheim thread as well, but since we have an expert here, would you mind telling me how a Dwarf Warband would be overpowered? No one in our group likes Dwarves, so we don´t play them. I know they have dozens of freaky "can´t kill me" rules, but whenever we look at them, we see their single greatest flaw: M3!

In our gaming group, everyone uses Elves in all variants or Skaven, I use Clan Pestilens Skaven (M5), Lizardmen (Skinks M6) and Undead (Vampire M6, Dire Wolves M9). Our Warbands are so damn quick, they charge acros the map like Lightning. Even M4 Warriors have trouble keeping up with the pace. Also everyone has Infiltrate. Generally speaking, there are no unobtained Wyrdstone Shards on the table after Turn 2. Knowing my Gaming group, everyone would just charge into the center, we´d duke it out in a short yet violent outburst, and it would be over long before even a single Dwarf set foot into the area. They´d be bystanders, nothing more, and easily outrun.

So what makes them so overpowered?

WarlockOMork
14-04-2009, 10:47
Expert doubt that, and i didnt say they where overpowered simply that they(my group) tought they where overpowered.
but ill try and summerize a few things i think make em, at least nice.

as i've said one of the main things is that theyr ungodly tough,
(and with the re-rolls can almost turn the injury chart into a bonus stats chart.)

and when armed with ranged weapons can also have an near ungodly range,
(an Engineer + Eagle eyes makes you able to hit even the other side of the board)
(combine with some sneaky playing and you can only see the target you want to hit, or he'll be the easyer one to hit, or preferably stick em on top (from the start so you dont have to take those pesky Initiative tests)of buildings and you can just pick your targets(my favourite method))
(also i'd like to mention Quickshot + Crossbow + a nice BS = Win.)
(its also a fun thing that even if you can just see a single thumb, tail bit, you can still shoot em to bits ^^)

in short the more bolts the merryer

Wyrdstone hunter scenario's (not your best one)
but i tend to have a few of the little fellows slowly banter towards any tokens on the board,
(in a almost straight line as i've got little to fear anyway im Tough as nails,
simply walk up to it and pick it up, on to the next.)
while i set up the rest to lend cover Fire and shoot anyone attempting to take "MY" token or even get close to it.. (this works quite well, tho i rarely get all of em, cant cover everything)
(as long as i get some im happy) (oh and if you can, shoot their heroes, they often tend to die just as easy/hard anyway)

other bits.
its also nearly always one of the smallest warbands, wich often makes you the underdog rules wise, even if you arent :p. more xp is always great

all your heroes almost always surviving +Resource hunter talents = one hell of an exploration phase (High and multiple numbers here i come)
(this is where you get lots of shards especialy considering your a low number Warband.)
(get a mordheim map, and your fun could go trough the roof with a nice roll, especialy with your always survivng heroes and theirs getting shot up.)

even managed to get 22222 once, (aka i got a tome that allowed me to pick academic skills (gave him Wyrdstone hunter and, arcane lore. lol dwarf wizards ftw!)

To sum up the entire post, M3? Out run this! (sends a hail of bolts flying) /shoo go fight in the shade.

Kavyaan
14-04-2009, 16:47
i absolutely love warcraft and warhammer and im a reasonable converter, ive already made night elves, and a orc blademaster but thats war 3 so ill try to make some war 2 converts and tell u how i did it

Ultimate Life Form
14-04-2009, 17:45
You do that. I´m looking forward to it.

Braad
16-04-2009, 18:41
I actually had to post this in 3 bits, otherwise it would be too long...

I think it's time for a final disccussion on this one!
Below I posted the list as it stands now. It has everything it needs, now including a few special characters to spice it up a bit.
I think I'm now more or less done with it. I can put in some final remarks, if anyone has them. Maybe a few changes here and there, little balancing thingies, or maybe a bit of fluffwise changes on the special characters...
I will make all changes in the next three posts, from now on.

After that, I can e-mail the original word file to anyone who wants one, just PM me your e-mail and I'll send it along as soon as we got the final version done.
Ofcourse you can just copy it from here too, but the word file has a bit more lay-out.

And ofcourse, to anyone who really sets out and uses this for anything, be it conversions or games, let us know what you think of it!

-----------------------

Da Horde!

Warcraft I&II armylist remake for Warhammer

In the age of chaos two factions battled for dominance.
The kingdom of Azeroth was a prosperous one. The humans who dwelled there turned the land into a paradise.
The knights of Stormwind and the clerics of Northshire Abbey roamed far and wide, serving the King’s people with honor and justice.
The well trained armies of the King maintained a lasting piece for many generations.
Then came the orcish hordes…

No one knew where these creatures came from, and none were prepared for the terror that they spawned.
Their warriors wielded axe and spear with deathly proficiency, while others rode dark wolves as black as the moonless night.
Unimagined were the destructive powers of their evil magiks, derived from the fires of the underworld.

With an ingenious arsenal of weaponry and powerful magic, these two forces collide in a contest of cunning, intellect and brute strength with the victor claiming dominance of the whole of Azeroth.




This list is a fan based project and in no way endorsed by either Games Workshop or Blizzard.


Horde special rules

Army rules

Size matters
Smaller orcs and adversaries do not panic the larger ones. In the following list, units only cause panic to their own kin, and to those above them.
• Peons and Goblins
• Orcs, Trolls, Death Knights and Warlocks
• Ogres
• Dragons


Special rules

High flight
Goblin zeppelins have the rule high flight. As zeppelin has the physical disability to land and take off over and over again in a short time, they instead remain stationary at altitude. Therefore they never land during a game, can end their move hovering over forest and other impassible terrain, and are never obstructed by anything. They can only be attacked by ranged attacks, magic and other flyers, and do not trigger any groundbased effects like the Runes spell or Orcs&Goblins Fanatics. They can only make a fly move and do not have ground movement.

“I Wish I had a weapon!”
Zeppelins do not have any weaponry. If they are attacked, they can only try to survive until help arrives, or flee the combat. They have a Unit Strenght of 4, but if they outnumber an opponent, they cannot claim a bonus for this.

Troop Carrier
Zeppelins main purpose is carrying troops around. They may carry 1 unit of up to 15 Orc Grunt, Orc Spearmen, Peons, Troll Axethrowers or Troll Berserkers, or up to 4 Goblin Sappers around. These have to be bought separately.
The unit starts the game boarded, and is effectively deployed when the Zeppelin is placed. The unit cannot be effected by anything while boared. If the Zeppelin is killed with the unit still on board, the unit is placed directly on the location where it crashed. Roll a D6 for every model inside. On a 4+ the model dies with no armour saves allowed. Take a panic test if necessary.
At the end of any movement phase, even if the Zeppelin moved, the unit may be deployed. They climb down with robes, and land directly underneath the Zeppelin. They may not perform any action this turn, but are free to perform any action from the next turn on, independently from the Zeppelin. The Zeppelin may now fly anywhere, but cannot claim table quarters.


EXPLODE!
Sappers can decide to blow themselves up. Decide to do so at the beginning of a round of combat, before any attacks are made, but after impact hits are resolved. The goblin’s explode and deal D6+2 S4 hits to any unit in base contact, and D3+1 S4 hits to any unit within 5”. These hits are flaming and allow no armour saves.

The concoctions wielded by Sappers are very unstable. At the start of the players own turn roll a D6 for each unit of Sappers. On the roll of a 1, the unit explodes on the spot.

As they are supposed to die horribly, Sappers never cause panic to any other unit, except when they cause actual casualties to that unit.

Berserker
These well trained Troll warriors excel with the throwing axe, and have improved skills. Besides having a higher Ballistic skill as the basic axethrowers, they also have the following upgrades:
• Regeneration on a 5+
• Improved range on their throwing axes: 8”

Work work!
Peons are the working force of the horde. When a unit of Peons starts the movement phase within 4” of a Catapult that is unmanned or lost part of its, models from the Peon unit may move out of the crew to replenish the warmachine crew up to a maximum of 3 crewmembers.
There must be a direct and clear path between the unit and the warmachine, and the unit must be allowed to move that turn and may not be fleeing.
The Peons move directly to the warmachine and immediately join the crew. The Peon unit may not charge after this, but is free to perform any other action.

Undead
Skeletons and Death Knights are undead. They can both be subject to spells, items and effects that target them. They are also unbreakable and cause fear.
In addition, non-character Undead follow the same rules for dying after a lost combat as Unbreakable swarms do, as described on page 53 of the basic rulebook.



Weapons

Throwing spears
Orc throwing spears are heavier than the average javelin. They count as javelins for all purposes of ranged weaponry, but can also be used as normal infantry spears.

Longswords
Orcs mounted on wolves may be equipped with giant Longswords. These can only be handled by the most brute and adapt warriors. A Longsword works exactly as a great weapons, though can only be used when mounted, and confers to a mounted warrior a Strenght bonus of +2 instead of +1.

Cannon
Ogre Sailors carry small cannons around the battlefield. These cannons fire as a handgun, with a range of 18” and strength 5, only instead of 1 shot, they fire D6 shots. Roll one D6 for each ogre each time before they fire, to determine the amount of shots they get. Then roll to hit and to wound as normal. On a roll of 1 when determining shots something went wrong. If this happens, roll on the misfire chart below once for each 1 rolled.

Roll Effect
1 Explode! The unit sustains D6 wounds, with no armour saves allowed.
2-3 Sizzle… The cannon is not working well today. From this moment on, all D6 rolls for this ogre are instead a D3 (with only a natural 1 causing further misfires).
4-6 Poof! A slight malfunction. May not shoot this turn.

Daemonsword
The Daemons that can be summoned by the Horde, carry powerful Daemonswords. These confer either +1 strenght or +1 attack upon the Daemon. Pick again each round of close combat. In addition they grant flaming attacks.

Touch of Darkness
The Death Knights don’t physically attack their opponents, but instead let their chilling cold souls touch those of their opponents, draining their life and courage. The Touch of Darkness counts as a hand weapon in all respects. However, when they cause 1 or more wounds, the unit of the wounded model has a -1 leadership modifier if they have to take a break test that turn.


Horde magic

Casters from the Horde use only their own spell lores. Death knights and Necrolytes randomly generate spells from the Lore of Darkness; Ogre and Warlock characters both know all their spells from their respective lores: the Lore of Blood and the Lore of Chaos.



Lore of Darkness


Death Coil
Cast on 5+
Magic missile. Does D6 Strength 3 hits with no armour saves allowed. If the missile causes at least one wound, the spell steals life and gives this to the Death Knight. He gains +1 wound each time, up to a maximum of double his starting number of wounds.

Raise Dead
Cast on 7+
Pick an unoccupied spot, at least 1” from any enemy unit, and within 12” of the caster. Place one skeleton at this location, and group the rest the rest of the unit around. Ranks have to be at least 5 wide. Creates 2D6 skeletons. This spell may also be used to replenish existing units.

Haste
Cast on 7+
One friendly unit within 12” may immediately make a free move, at their normal movement rate. No march, and difficult terrain modifiers must be applied. If they come in contact with an enemy, they count as charging. If the unit is already engaged in combat, they count as having ASF in the next combat phase.

Unholy Armour
Cast on 8+
This spell can be cast on any friendly character within 18”, even if in close combat, except on the caster himself. The target looses 1 wound, but gains a 2+ ward save until the players next magic phase.

Death and Decay
Cast on 8+, remains in play
May be cast on one enemy unit within 18” and within line of sight, even when it is in engaged in close combat. This unit must roll a D6 for every model in the unit, and on the roll of a 6 the model dies, with no armour saves allowed. Roll again at the end of each following magic phase (both the caster’s and the opponent’s phase) if the spell is not dispelled. The second time models die on a 5+, the third time on a 4+, and so on. From the fifth time on, the models keep dying on a 2+.


Whirlwind
Cast on 11+, remains in play
Summons a mighty tornado. Mark a spot, and scatter with the artillery and scatter dice. A hit is treated as a scatter instead, and moved in the direction of the tiny arrow. A misfire counts as 0” instead. Place the 5” template on the spot. Any model fully under the template sustains a S5 hit. Any model partially under the template is hit on a 4+. 1 model (partially) under the hole in the template is considered to be in the eye of the storm, and is not hit at all. If more models are partially under the hole, the controlling player decides which one to keep safe.
At the end of the next caster’s magic phase, roll a D6. On a 1-3 the tornado ends. On a 4+, scatter the tornado and work out damage again as described above. The tornado can also be ended according to the normal rules for remains in play.



Lore of Blood

Blood Lust
Cast on 7+
Cast on any friendly unit within 12”, even if engaged in close combat. The unit receives +1S for the duration of this turn, up to a maximum of 10. A unit can only be affected once at a time by this spell.

Eye of Killrog
Cast on 8+
Target one enemy unit within 24" and LOS, even when in close combat. A character in a unit cannot be targeted seperately. If succesful, this unit counts as being a large target for all purposes of targeting in the next friendly shooting phase.

Runes
Cast on 8+, remains in play
Cast this spell on a location within 18” of the caster. This location must be unoccupied so that you can place the small …” blast template at this location without touching any unit. Any unit (friend or foe) that comes in contact with the template sustains D6 S4 hits, with no armour saves allowed. The spell is dispelled right after causing damage once.
Even though this spell remains in play, it allows the caster to cast other spells without the runes being dispelled.



Lore of Chaos

Fireball
Cast on 5+
Magic missile with 24” range. Causes D6 S4 hits.

Poison Cloud
Cast on 7+, remains in play
Target any location within 12”. Place the large 5” template on this location. Every model, friend or foe, that is hit by the template, receives a S2 hit.
At the end of each subsequent magic phase in which the poison cloud is not dispelled, scatter the cloud D6” and re-apply the effects.

Summon Spiders
Cast on 9+
This spell summons D6 Giant Spiders on an unoccupied location, at least 1” from any enemy and within 12” of the caster. Place one spider, and group the rest around it, making ranks of at least 5 wide. This spell may also be used to replenish existing units.



Magic items

Magic Weapons

Stormreaver Axe, 50 points
These mighty axes were inscribed with runic writing by Gul’Dan himself and gifted to his lieutenants.
These axes confer +1S and +1A for each enemy standard bearer and battle standard within 10”.

Burning Blade, 50 points
This is the symbolic weapon of the Chieftains of the Burning Blade Clan. These Orcs are more an elemental force of nature then an actual clan, living only for unholy rage and frenzy.
This Blade confers frenzy to its bearer. Instead of the normal +1 attack it confers +D3 attacks, and these are made at a +1 to hit modifier. This frenzy can never be lost. If he is mounted, the mount gains normal frenzy.

Twilight Hammer, 30 points
The mystical symbol of the Twilight Hammer Clan. This vile and crude weapon is covered in the blood of many victims.
Gives the killing blow ability to the bearer.

Shadow Spear (Warlock or Death Knight only), 25 points
At the death of an orc, his essences are divided into good and evil. The Orcish necromancers have learned how to siphon these energies and manifest them into a magic weapon.
This weapon gives the bearer a ranged attack. It counts as a thrown weapon at a range of 12”, at a strength of 5, with no armour saves and regeneration allowed. It inflicts D6 instead of 1 wound upon the target.

Assassins Blade of Garona, 20 points
Garona, a female half-orc, was a stealthy assassin.
This blade confers +1 attack to the bearer and makes his close combat attacks poisonous.

Gauntlet of Blackhand, 20 points
Blackhand has always been famous for wearing a huge spiked gauntlet, which he often put to good use to smash any opponents skull.
Confers +1 strenght to the profile of the bearer. Can be used as a second hand weapon if the character has this option, in combination with the basic hand weapon it carries.

Giant rock (Ogre Mages only), 10 points
Ogres train themselves by hurling huge rocks. These skills can also aid them in combat. Ogre mages sometimes carry magically imbued rocks to battle.
Gives the Ogre a ranged attack, which is treated to be at the strength of the user and at a range of 8”.



Magic Armour

Armour of Blackhand, 25 points
Blackhand was the one to best rally and control the horde and he ruled with iron fist.
A ruthless dictator who inspired awe and terror in his warriors.
Fleeing was not an option under the rule of Blackhand. A hero carrying this armour and the unit he is with may re-roll their break tests.

Ironwood shield, 25 points
Few things are as touch as those from made from Ironwood.
Shield. A hit can never cause more than 1 wound on a character carrying an Ironwood shield (so D6 rolls for e.g. cannons are not made).

Juggernaught Armour, 20 points
Massive iron boards taken from stranded Juggernaughts, and beaten into crude breastplates.
Counts as full plate armour (+3 to AS).



Talismans

Nether Charm (wizards only), 50 points
The Netherworld is the place where magic powers originate from. This charm directly taps into these powers and bestows them upon the bearer.
+2 to any casting rolls

Mantle of the Warchief (Orc Warlords and Chieftains only), 50 points
When a new Warchief is installed in a clan, he obtains the magical mantle that goes from leader to leader.
This mantle emanates an aura of leadership. If given to the general, his leadership range is increased to 18”. If another character is given such a mantle, he gains the same abilities as the general with regard to lending his leadership to other, and this effect has a range of 6”.

Tome of Necromancy (non-magical characters only), 35 points
A giant lore, partially written by Gul’Dan.
This giant magical tome gives the bearer a magic level of 1, and he may roll a spell from the Lore of Darkness.

Runic Talismans (may be taken by more than one character), 20 points
Many runic talismans can be found, some more powerfull than other. Roll a D6 to determine its effect:
D6 roll Effect
1 Grants the bearer a 4+ ward save
2-3 Grants +2 attacks
4-6 Allows the bearer to re-roll failed rolls to hit



Arcane Items

Runic Writings, 50 points
The most powerful spell ever rumored to exist. A daemon is summoned and will do the casters bidding, but to a great cost.
One use only. Can be activated at the start of a turn, and summons a Daemon from the Netherworld.
The caster however sacrifices his body, and binds his soul to this daemon. He becomes ethereal and looses half of his attacks (rounded down) and -1 to his strength. When the character dies, so does the Daemon and vice versa.

Jeweled Truncheon (Death Knights and Warlocks only), 50 points
Used by death knights through which they could better focus the unearthly powers they
would brandish. Into these jewels were infused the raw, necromantic magiks of the freshly slain Necrolytes.
Adds +1 dice to the first spell cast by the bearer in each magic phase.

Mystic Symbols, 30 points
Glowing mystical symbols are often used in dark spells and empower the bodies of those created by it.
After randomly rolling spells, the bearer of Mystic symbols may not only swap 1 of his spells to the first spell of the lore, but also to either Raise Dead or Summon Spiders, depending on the lore. It also adds +1 spider or +2 skeletons to the unit for each time the spell is cast successfully.

Caer Darrow Runestones (Ogre Mages only), 25 points
Runestones are large blocks of rock carved with powerful runes of elven magic. After being defiled by Gul’Dan, he carved the Altar of Storms from the runestones to empower the Ogres with evil Magiks. Shards from these rocks are carried around by Ogre Mages to assist in their powers.
Adds +1 to their casting rolls.



Enchanted Items

Chains of Adamantine Steel, 55 points
These chains where used to bind the most powerful creature in all of azeroth, Alexstrasza the dragon Queen, captured and ensorcelled by magicks and used by the Dragonmaw clan to breed there army of dragons.
A character with this item may use one dragon, bought as a rare choice for 300 points, as a mount instead of the normal mount choices.

Vial of Berserker Chemicals, 30 points
The ritual that is involved in training a Troll into a Berserker involves various chemicals concoctions, and one of the most specific traits gained by Berserkers is the regeneration.
Gives the user regeneration on a 5+.

Spiders Venom, 25 points
The Warlock Clan have used their magiks to create the hideous abominations that they call spiders. Mutated from the smaller creatures commonly found in the area, these huge poison fanged beasts are twisted and predatory.
A poisonous liquid distilled from certain organs of these spiders, can be used to daub weapons in. It grants the bearer poisonous attacks on a 5+.

Braad
16-04-2009, 18:43
Tankard of Bloodmead (unmounted characters only), 30 points.
Every Orc likes a good pint of Bloodmead, as it strengthens the senses before battle. When a cunning chief gives his bodyguard a tankard of this stuff before battle, they are likely to start combat in a bit of an ‘elevated’ state.
A character with this item must be deployed in a unit, and he may not leave this unit during the game. He and the unit count as being stubborn for the entirety of the battle.



Magic Standards

Standard of the Horde, 50 points
All shall tremble under the mighty banner of the Horde
This banner gives fear to the bearer and the unit he is with.

The bloodbanner of Mannoroth, 40 points
Daubed in the blood of Mannoroth himself, this banner eminates a crazing aura of bloodlust.
The standard carrying this banner and the unit he currently is with gain +1 strenght, and all close combat attacks become magical.



Characters - Lords

Orc Warlord

Points/model: 125
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Orc Grunt 4 6 3 6 5 3 4 4 9

Wargear: Hand weapon

Options
• May choose a great weapon (+16 pts) or an additional hand weapon (+8 pts).
• May carry light armour for 4 points or heavy armour for 8 pts. May also carry a shield for 4 points.
• May ride a Black Wolf for 32 points.
• May choose magic items for up to 100 points.



2-headed Ogre Mage

Points/model: 200
Base size: 40x40mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Ogre Mage 6 5 3 6 6 4 2 5 9

Wargear: Hand weapon

Special rules: Cause fear

Options
• May choose a great weapon (+16 pts) or an additional hand weapon (+8 pts).
• May carry a shield (+4 pts).
• May choose magic items for up to 100 points.

Magic
A 2-headed Ogre Mage is a level 2 spellcaster who knows all the spells from the Lore of Blood.



Death Knight

Points/model: 180
Base size: 25x50mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Ogre Mage 3 3 3 4 4 3 1 3 8

Wargear: Touch of Darkness, light armour and mounted on a Death Steed

Special rules: Undead

Options
• May choose magic items for up to 100 points.

Magic
A Death Knight is a level 3 spellcaster who randomly selects spells from the lore of Darkness
• May upgrade to level 4 for 35 points.



Orgrim Doomhammer

Born as a warrior, and ascended to general-ship through a life of battle and warfare, he is one of the most powerful orc warriors ever. Respected by his allies and fearer by his enemies, he was a towering orc clad in blood encrusted black armour.

Points/model: 260
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Ogre Mage 4 7 3 6 5 3 4 5 9

Wargear: The Doomhammer and Steel Plate

Special rules: Always Strike First

Magic items
Doomhammer
If two things can be one, then Orgrim and his hammer would be a prime example. In a fearsome dance of destruction, either of these seems to fill the shortcomings of the other.
This hammer allows Orgrim to re-roll all failed rolls to hit and it negates ward saves.

Steel Plate
This nearly black piece of plate armour doesn’t look very special, and is a dull black colour, but the touch of blood gives it a sinister gleam.
This plate gives Orgrim a 3+ Armour Save and 5+ Ward Save.



Gul’dan

One of the most powerfull Warlocks of the Horde, but as treacherous as the night. In his evergoing hunger for power, he would finally sacrifice all who stood close to him.

Points/model: 300
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Warlock 4 3 3 4 4 2 3 2 8

Gul’dan must always be the general, and no other special characters may be chosen in an army led by him.

Wargear: Hand weapon and light armour

Magic
Gul’dan is a Level 4 wizard who knows all the spells from the lore of Chaos.
• As a warlock, he may summon a Daemon once in a game. However, the power level of his summoning spell is 12 instead of 8, and his Daemon lasts until either destroyed or the game is finished.
• Being a true master of the Chaotic magiks, he may attempt any spell from the Lore of Chaos up to 2 times.

Magic items
Staff of Deamonblood
Said to have been daubed in the blood of Daemons, this staff is used by Gul’dan to channel his evil magiks.
Gives +2 to his first casting attempt and +1 to his second attempt in each magic phase.

Book of spells
In this magical book, Gul’dan keeps record of some of the more exotic spells he discovered.
Roll a D3. Gul’dan may choose this many spells from the Lore of Darkness and Lore of Blood, and use them in addition to the Lore of Chaos spells.

Cloak of Gul’dan
This piece of cloth, woven with unknown material, is soaked with power which slowly seeps out when needed.
The cloak provides 1 extra power dice and 1 extra dispel dice to the pool each magic phase.


Grom Hellscream

One of the most battle-crazed orcs ever to step into the world. Grom was known for his relentless and frenzied attacks and undying lust for blood.

Points/model: 150
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Orc Grunt 4 6 3 6 5 3 4 4 9

Wargear: Hand weapon and light armour

Special rules: Frenzy (cannot be lost), Killing Blow

Options
• May choose magic items for up to 100 points.

Magic items
Blade of Winds
Forged from extremely light but also durable steel, his sword is like a whirlwind of death on its own. Wielded in Grom’s crazed hands only amplifies this effect.
Gives +1 weapon skill. In addition, Grom can choose to lower his defences in exchange for extreme fighting power. He is at +2 to hit for enemy models, but gains 3 attacks. Choose whether or not to use this effect each combat turn.



Characters - Heroes

Orc Chieftain

Points/model: 75
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Chieftain 4 5 3 5 5 2 3 3 8

Wargear: Hand weapon

Options
• May choose a great weapon (+8 pts) or an additional hand weapon (+4 pts).
• May carry light armour for 2 points. May also carry a shield for 2 points.
• May ride a Black Wolf for 16 points.
• May choose magic items for up to 50 points.

Battle Standard Bearer
One Chieftain may be the Battle Standard Bearer for +25 points.
He cannot be the armies general, even if his leadership value is the highest.
He may not choose an additional hand weapon or a great weapon. If he has a magic banner, he may not take any magical equipment.



Orc Warlock

Points/model: 180
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Warlock 4 3 3 4 4 2 3 2 7

Wargear: Hand weapon and light armour

Options
• He may choose magic items for up to 50 points.

Magic
The Warlock is a level 1 wizard who knows all the spells from the Lore of Chaos.
• May upgrade to level 2 for 50 points
• Any warlock may summon a Daemon once in a game. While attempting to do so, he may not cast any other spells. The summoning is treated as a bound spell with power level 8. If not dispelled, A Daemon is placed on an unoccupied location, at least 1” from any other unit. This Daemon exists D3+1 turns (excluding the current) from this moment on. Remove at the end of the last turn.



Orc Necrolyte

Points/model: 65
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Necrolyte 4 2 2 3 3 2 3 1 7

Wargear: Hand Weapon

Options
• He may choose magic items for up to 50 points.

Magic
The Necrolyte is a level 1 wizard who can randomly select spells from the Lore of Darkness.
• May upgrade to level 2 for 35 points.



Korgath Bladefist

As a veteran warrior and Orc Chieftain, Kargath is a skilled fighter and excellent leader.

Points/model: 90
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Chieftain 4 5 2 5 5 2 3 4 8

Wargear: Great Weapon and Heavy armour

Special rules
Bodyguard – If Korgath is deployed in a unit of Orc Grunts, he and his unit become stubberon. Korgath cannot leave this unit.

Options
• May ride a Black Wolf for 16 points.
• May choose magic items for up to 50 points.



Zul’jin

A Warlord of the Trolls, and a magnicifent marksmen.

Points/model: 9
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Stalker 4 3 6 4 3 2 4 2 8

Wargear: Throwing axe

Special rules: Berserker
Skirmish, Scout - Zul’jin may be deployed at the same time as other scouts, and may immediately be placed in a scouting and/or skirmishing unit if the player wishes to do so.
I got axe for you! - Being a master of ranged attack, Zul’jin certainly has axe for anyone! He can throw 2 axes in the time another can hurl 1. Therefore he has 2x multiple shot at no penalty. He may hurl his axes at any target he can see and is in range, and ignore any other targeting restrictions. He may divide his own shots over 2 different target, and shoot at a different target than his unit.
Finally, his ranged attacks count as having Killing Blow. Against targets with a Unit Strength higher then 2, he inflicts D3 wounds instead, and ignores Armour save.

Options
• May choose up to 50 points in magic items


Character Mounts

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Black Wolf 9 3 0 4 3 1 3 1 4
Death Steed 8 3 0 3 3 1 2 1 6

Base size for both a Black Wolf and a Death Steed is 25x50mm.



Core units

Orc Grunts

The brutal mainstay of the orcish hordes. The powerful green skinned warriors are a deadly foe, and feared by many.

Points/model: 5
Unit size: 10+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Orc Grunt 4 3 3 4 4 1 2 1 7
Champion 4 4 3 5 4 1 2 2 7

Wargear: Hand weapon and light armour

Options
• May take shields (+1 pts/model) or additional hand weapons (+2 pts/model).
• Upgrade one Grunt to a musician for +5 pts.
• Upgrade one Grunt to a standard bearer for +10 pts.
• Promote one Grunt to champion for +15 pts.
• One unit of Orc Grunts may carry a magic banner worth up to 50 points.



Orc Spearmen

The smaller and less stronger orcs often come equipped with light throwing spears, to supply supportive fire for the groups of grunts.

Points/model: 6
Unit size: 10+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Orc Grunt 4 3 3 3 4 1 2 1 7
Champion 4 3 4 4 4 1 2 1 7

Wargear: Throwing spear

Options
• May take shields (+1 pts/model).
• Upgrade one Spearman to a musician for +5 pts.
• Upgrade one Spearman to a standard bearer for +10 pts.
• Promote one Spearman to champion for +15 pts.

Ogre

These huge barbaric monsters are not the brightest in the army, but make up for this in sheer resilience.

Points/model: 22
Unit size: 3+
Base size: 40x40mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Ogre 6 3 2 4 4 2 2 2 7
Bonecrusher 6 3 2 4 4 2 2 3 7

Wargear: Hand weapon

Special rules: Cause fear

Options
• May be equipped with additional hand weapons for +3 points/model.
• Upgrade one Ogre to a musician for +10 pts.
• Upgrade one Ogre to a standard bearer for +15 pts.
• Promote one Ogre to Bonecrusher for +15 pts.



Troll axethrowers

The tribal Trolls are masters of the throwing axe. While these weapons are only short ranged, Trolls often have little difficulty in sneaking up close enough on their enemies to strike hard, before disappearing stealthily into the undergrowth again.

Points/model: 6
Unit size: 10+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Troll 4 3 3 3 3 1 2 1 7
Headhunter 4 3 4 3 3 1 2 1 7

Wargear: Throwing axe

Special rules: Skirmish, Scouts

Options
• Upgrade one Troll to a musician for +5 pts.
• Upgrade one Troll to a standard bearer for +10 pts.
• Promote one Troll to headhunter for +10 pts.



Peons

These are the workforce of the Horde. Though not skilled in combat, they sometimes accompany the grunts to the field of battle to provide support in numbers.

Points/model: 3
Unit size: 10+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Peon 4 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 6

Wargear: Hand weapon

Special rules: Work work!

Braad
16-04-2009, 18:45
Special units

Orc Raiders

Points/model: 20
Unit size: 5+
Base size: 25x50mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Orc Raider 4 3 3 4 4 1 2 1 7
Orc Looter 4 3 3 4 4 1 2 2 7
Black Wolf 9 3 0 4 3 1 3 1 4

Wargear: Longswords, light armour and shields

Special rules: Fast cavalry

Options
• Upgrade one Raider to a musician for +10 pts.
• Upgrade one Raider to a standard bearer for +15 pts.
• Promote one Raider to Looter for +15 pts.
• One unit of Orc Raiders may carry a magic banner worth up to 50 points.



2-headed ogre

Points/model: 32
Unit size: 3+
Base size: 40x40mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
2-headed Ogre 6 3 2 4 4 3 2 3 8
Bonesmasher 6 3 2 4 4 3 2 4 8

Wargear: Hand weapon

Special rules: Cause fear

Options
• May be equipped with additional hand weapons for +3 points/model.
• Upgrade one Ogre to a musician for +10 pts.
• Upgrade one Ogre to a standard bearer for +15 pts.
• Promote one Ogre to Bonesmasher for +15 pts.



Ogre Sailors

Most of the time sailing the 8 seas in crudely made Juggernaughts, the ogre sailors also sometimes lend their aid in land battles. While not being the most powerfull ogre warriors, they do carry small cannons around as if they were handguns.

Points/model: 35
Unit size: 3+
Base size: 40x40mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Ogre 6 3 2 4 4 2 2 2 7
Bonecrusher 6 3 2 4 4 2 2 3 7

Wargear: Cannon

Special rules: Cause fear

Options
• Upgrade one Ogre to a musician for +10 pts.
• Upgrade one Ogre to a standard bearer for +15 pts.
• Promote one Ogre to Bonecrusher for +15 pts.



Goblin sappers*

There are crazy people running around, but probably none as crazy as these! They laugh in the face of danger, as they run around with explosives and ready to blow themselves straight into the first foe they encounter… If they make it that far, that is.

Points/model: 25
Unit size: 1
* Note that up to 4 sappers may be bought as a single special slot
Base size: 40x40mm, several goblins on a single base
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Sappers 5 2 3 2 2 3 3 3 5

Wargear: Unstable concoctions

Special rules: EXPLODE!


Troll berserkers

These are the most well trained Troll warriors that can be found. With deadly accuracy they can slice a man’s skull with their axes. Daubed in warpaints, and growling with anger, they stalk the forests in search of prey.

Points/model: 9
Unit size: 5+
Base size: 25x25mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Berserker 4 3 4 3 3 1 2 1 7
Stalker 4 3 5 3 3 1 2 1 7

Wargear: Throwing axe

Special rules: Skirmish, Scouts, Berserker

Options
• Upgrade one Troll to a musician for +6 pts.
• Upgrade one Troll to a standard bearer for +12 pts.
• Promote one Troll to Stalker for +15 pts.



Catapult

The massive catapults of the horde can cause devastating damage upon massed units of rank&file warriors.

Points/model: 75
Unit size: 1
Base size: 50x75mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Catapult - - - - 7 3 - - -
Peons 4 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 6

Crew: 3 peons

Options
• The Catapult can be equipped with spiked ammo (+1S) for 10 points, or come with burning oil (flaming attacks) for 10 points.


Rare units

Goblin Zeppelin

These chunky floating balloons are a fast and safe way of carrying your units around.

Points/model: 40
Unit size: 1
Base size: 100x100mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Zeppelin - 2 3 2 4 4 3 - 8

Special rules: High flight, “I Wish I had a weapon!”, Troop Carrier



Dragon

Mighty dragons are the most powerful asset of the Orcish Horde. The terrifying creatures soar the skies, burning their victims in searing flames.

Points/model: 300
Slots: 2x rare
Unit size: 1
Base size: 50x100mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Dragon 6 6 0 6 6 6 3 5 8

Wargear: Claw, scale and flame. He counts as having a hand weapon, a 4+ scaly skin and a S4 breath weapon

Special rules: Fly; large target; terror



Magic Creatures

Skeleton

Points/model: -
Unit size: 1+
Base size: 20x20mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Skeleton 4 2 2 3 3 1 1 1 6

Wargear: Hand Weapon

Special rules: Undead



Giant Spiders

Points/model: -
Unit size: 1+
Base size: 25x50mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Giant Spider 7 3 0 3 3 1 4 2 6

Wargear: Fang and claw

Special rules: Unbreakable; Fear; Poison



Deamon

Points/model: -
Unit size: 1
Base size: 40x40mm
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
Daemon 5 5 0 5 4 4 3 4 8

Wargear: Daemonsword

Special rules: Fly, Stubborn, Terror



Project by:
Ultimate Life Form
Braad

Thanks to the following Warseer members for participating in our thread, commenting and giving interesting ideas:
Charistoph
Darwin_green
Dexter099
Guitarkalle
Leogun+91
Solasun
Thoras Ulriksson
Urgat
WarlockOMork

Ultimate Life Form
16-04-2009, 19:31
Alright, I LOVE it!:D

Few things:

- Don´t you think regenerating on 5+ is too much for Berserkers? Maybe 6+?

- Shouldn´t Death Knights and Skeletons be undead?

Also I don´t want to sound arrogant, but in so much text, a few typos always slip through. I want this to be as good as possible, so...

Please change Garano in Garona´s blade:)

Runic Writhings – it´s viCe versa

Mystic Symbols – it..

AdamAntine Steel

Vial of BeRserker CChemicals

Apart from that, it´s perfect! Next up is Alliance!:D

Braad
17-04-2009, 14:51
About Berserkers... Well, actually, no. I don't think its that bad. They are a 9 point/model special, with no other saves at all... And I think making it 6+ diminishes the point of having regeneration too much.

Problem with undead, is that they don't have rules in the BRB, and if I want to use those, I have to copy them, which I consider a bit of a no-go... Having similar stuff is okay AFAIK, but copying things completely is not. But I got an idea... Also, I don't know exactly what 'undead' does...
I could give the skeletons the same rule as unbreakable swarms, so that they die if defeated in combat.

I'll changes those typo's. And don't worry about pointing them out, it's a well known fact that it is easier for someone else to spot your errors than to spot them yourself.

Alliance?
I'll leave that to the Empire players :p

---EDIT---

What do you mean with viCe versa?

Ultimate Life Form
17-04-2009, 15:00
Oh, that´s just perfect, making them like Swarms will do the trick. Swarms are basically undead except they don´t have the "undead" special rule. Which brings us to the next issue...

There is no such thing as "The Undead". Both my Vampire Counts and my Buddy´s Tomb Kings have different unead rules. I´m surprised you seem to know next to nothing about undead? Surely you know that with Vampires, you target their General, and with Tomb Kings, you go for the Hierophant. So they are not the same, and therefore, there is no need for us to copy their rules, since our army´s unique as well.

I was just thinking about putting the letters into their special rules, so they may be affected by stuff that affects Undead, like Lore of Light, Engine of the Gods and so on.

Edit: viCe versa means it´s spelled "vice versa", not "vise versa" as was in your version. I don´t seem to be able to recall where it was?

Charistoph
17-04-2009, 16:20
Oh, that´s just perfect, making them like Swarms will do the trick. Swarms are basically undead except they don´t have the "undead" special rule. Which brings us to the next issue...

There is no such thing as "The Undead". Both my Vampire Counts and my Buddy´s Tomb Kings have different unead rules. I´m surprised you seem to know next to nothing about undead? Surely you know that with Vampires, you target their General, and with Tomb Kings, you go for the Hierophant. So they are not the same, and therefore, there is no need for us to copy their rules, since our army´s unique as well.

I was just thinking about putting the letters into their special rules, so they may be affected by stuff that affects Undead, like Lore of Light, Engine of the Gods and so on.


Pretty much as he said. In general, Undead are Unbreakable Swarms, have Fear, can't March on their own, and Crumble when their summoner dies. These are the same for both VC and TK. The differences lie in how to get them to March, who the summoner is, and a special bonus for being near the TK Icon Bearer.

bob_the_small
17-04-2009, 17:03
What was wrong with Warcraft 3?

Charistoph
17-04-2009, 17:26
What was wrong with Warcraft 3?

Some poeple don't like change.

Some people liked the Horde being dedicatedly evil.

Demons responsible for everything.

Night Elves.

Arthas.

Introduced World of Warcraft.

Pick one.

I'm sorry if I missed anyone's personal objection, but I think I covered most of them.

I think it's pointless. It's like complaining that Return of the King was a waste of space, even though it is part of and a culmination of the overall story.

Braad
17-04-2009, 17:33
Okay... added the 'undead' special rule to both the death knights and skeletons, and removed their other rules. I put the whole bunch in the army rules under the heading 'undead' and wrote the following:
Skeletons and Death Knights are undead. They can both be subject to spells, items and effects that target them. They are also unbreakable and cause fear.
In addition, non-character Undead follow the same rules for dying after a lost combat as Unbreakable swarms do, as described on page 53 of the basic rulebook.

Good?
I didn't put any crumbling after the death of a summoner in, as it is not a major effect in the army, and lore-wise also not correct. I was thinking about putting a time-lapse in, as summoned things in WC also didn't last forever, like I did with the Daemon, but I figured it would become too complicated with units that existed of several summonings and also too much of a hassle to keep track of everything in a larger army...
Also skipped the not being able to march thing. Same with the other, I don't think it's that important in this army, as it is not fully undead, but just a few spawned units.

I found the viCe versa and changed it.

@ Bob
Nothing, if you ask me. But opinions differ, and they did suddenly turn the orcs from bloodthirsty monsters into shamanistic tribes. I can understand why some people don't like this... But sometimes change is necessary, and being able to change stuff is the whole bit of fun when you're in charge :p

Ultimate Life Form
17-04-2009, 17:44
Everyone:

This entire thread got me into playing War III again recently. (:eek:)

If there is true demand and this is not some trolling, I´ll gladly play the story mode again from the beginning to the end and write down every single thing I don´t like. Should take a few weeks. List will be insanely long. I can note the good things as well, if there is demand.

War III is not entirely bad. In fact, I played it for weeks upon weeks. The game play is smooth and the armies well balanced. It´s just that the story line is ridiculous, as well as many of the troop types and spells, I hate this stupid Blizzard humor, the german dub is ridiculously bad, and the whole thing in general doesn´t live up to the name of Warcraft and was a huge dissappointment from the very beginning.

(In my opinion, the first few Human missions are the best. They feel very much like Warcraft II, and show what the game COULD have been if they just tried. This makes me all the more sad.)

Braad
17-04-2009, 17:53
Maybe... just maybe... it's better if Warcraft III and WOW stuff was taken to some thread in the random musings, as I fear that the actual topic of this thread will get lost if we continue...

Also remember, how much you (dis)like stuff is a personal opinion and probably your list would be very different (also probably longer) than mine.

BTW: starcraft for da win!

Hehe... if I played 40K, I would now start translating space marine rules into a Terran army :p
Eldar for Protoss and Tyranids for Zerg: it would work well...

Back to the list, I say.
i was thinking, maybe it would be nice to convert it to PDF... and if we got any good artists here (probably not me), maybe make a few drawings to go with that?

WarlockOMork
17-04-2009, 17:53
would like to add normaly undead chars also lose wounds if they lost combat.
its the downside to all the advantages of beeing undead.

i myself would keep it that way.

and nice completed list.

just some nitpicks as usual.
inmo ogre sailors dont really fit in there.

and i personaly would never pick a orc warlord
with grom(as he is now) in the list. for 25points more you get Killing blow, Frenzy and a kick ass weapon.
(if i want killing blow for a normal char i already pay 30points for that, not to mention now it doesnt cost me any magic item points)
(and can still give him magic armour to make him tough as hell as i could any other char, his only weakness(wich is optional even) doesnt really balance that)

another char i'd always pick. Zul'jin, why? because hes only freaking 9points:wtf:.

also feel gul'dan is slightly over powered (altough that would fit lore wise :p)

Ps. cool im mentioned in the credits :D.
and didnt hate WCIII tho can see why others would, probaly because it heralded the dawn of blizzard commercialism, hate WoW for that reason tho.

Braad
17-04-2009, 17:56
Oops... 9 points for Zul'jin?
Forgot to change that... I'll go work on these points soon. But now I got to go!

And please, nitpicks are good! Go ahead! Especially when it comes to balance issues like these.

Anyone who has the models to playtest a game: please do so!

Ultimate Life Form
17-04-2009, 19:04
Sure, this doesn´t belong here. It´s just that everyone keeps asking what I don´t like about War III, so if they really are interested in the answer, I shall give them one. I´d send it around or post it in the PC games section or something.

Yes, Starcraft is basically in between: It enjoys the improved user interface and AI of the later Blizzard games, but plays in every regard like a real old schooler. I LOVE the game, in fact I played it through around christmas, and in my opinion this is closer to Warcraft than War III. Now with Star II dawning upon us, I fear they may mess this one up as well, but the screenshots, movies and what they write about it look promising.:)

Now for the finishing touches. Well, I was always envied for my artistic skills, but I consider myself a mediocre artist at best. Thing is though, I always hate my own drawings, this is not what I had in mind and that is not right and so on, so strangely as it may sound, I´m biased towards my own work. But if you can´t find someone else, I´ll do it. Depends on the quality you desire. A few pencil sketches is fine, but I´m no da Vinci.

Ultimate Life Form
17-04-2009, 22:33
I think I finally found a way to build cool Trolls.

As suggested earlier, the Bloodletters appear promising to base the model on. Their bodies are nicely sized and naked.

As for the heads, i think bald Goblin heads will do just fine. Just gotta model some chins and a furry mane outta GS and stick some tusks in.

Now, I finally found the feet: Daemonettes of Slaanesh appear to have the characteristical two-toed feed that Trolls sport. Looks nice.

Only poblem here are the arms. I don´t suppose there are any three-fingered arms out there? I figure I´ll use Orc Arms and do a little GS in order to fuse the fingers.

As far as I know, all models mentioned so far are made from plastic and should be easy to convert. Any thoughts on it? Think it might work? I have no experience with Daemons. Do you think the sizes of the different parts will match?

Braad
17-04-2009, 22:39
Pfew... maybe greenstuffed orc hands would be too large compared to daemonette feet... Maybe the same thing, but with smaller hands, would work better.
I think the chaos range could provide some cool axes?

Ultimate Life Form
17-04-2009, 22:44
Pfew... maybe greenstuffed orc hands would be too large compared to daemonette feet... Maybe the same thing, but with smaller hands, would work better.
I think the chaos range could provide some cool axes?

But wouldn´t the hands then be too small in relation to the Bloodletter body? What I´ve seen till now, these bastards are pretty damn big, even towering over my beloved Saurus Warriors.

Devil
17-04-2009, 23:47
Woops Obviously I ment warcraft mate. Warhammer is divine!!

"Have fun with your opinion, I enjoy Warcraft myself. " Charistoph


Warcraft is evil dude. It breaks up marriages. Turns pre pubescent teens into white skinned black lined under eyes vampires. Teaches greed. Corrupts our children amorally ( you can get great cybersex from that dancing night elf near the mailbox but trust me its no girl behind the keyboard yucK=(..)

It is vile blasphemy to congregate the two. One promotes creativity while the other takes a poop on it. This said however both warhammer and warcraft if done need to be done in moderation but the problem with warcraft is by design it is nearly impossible to approach that game with moderate intent.

At the end of the day I know warhammer/gamesworkshop has gotten alont greedier and while it may be close nobody can top Blizzard in the crappy customer service department and there corrupt nature and greed.

Ultimate Life Form
18-04-2009, 00:16
Warcraft is evil dude. It breaks up marriages. Turns pre pubescent teens into white skinned black lined under eyes vampires. Teaches greed. Corrupts our children amorally ( you can get great cybersex from that dancing night elf near the mailbox but trust me its no girl behind the keyboard yucK=(..)


This is exactly why I specifically excluded WoW. Maybe you missed that till now. Obviously, you are a pathetic miserable creature who never enjoyed the series before it went evil, and I pity you for it. As mentioned in the prologue, there is no place for trolling within these sacred halls. You are welcome as long as you have ANYTHING of value to contribute, but I will not suffer any kind of insolence, irrelevant ramblings or generic PC game bashing from you. Take this as a warning if you must. Otherwise, I´d have to send out Garona, and you wouldn´t like that.

Charistoph
18-04-2009, 09:07
Warcraft is evil dude. It breaks up marriages. Turns pre pubescent teens into white skinned black lined under eyes vampires. Teaches greed. Corrupts our children amorally ( you can get great cybersex from that dancing night elf near the mailbox but trust me its no girl behind the keyboard yucK=(..)

It is vile blasphemy to congregate the two. One promotes creativity while the other takes a poop on it. This said however both warhammer and warcraft if done need to be done in moderation but the problem with warcraft is by design it is nearly impossible to approach that game with moderate intent.

Blame not the product for the stupidity of the masses. This is like blaming the Bible for the Crusades and Priestly pedophiles. Far to many souls were unprepared for the MMORPG experience, especially such a smooth one as Blizzard provided. WoW has truly broken more homes than any other game, but EQ, UO, and DAoC, were doing it long before.


Good job Braad, it's a list I think I would enjoy playing (and consider I haven't been able to choose any fracking army at all because of all the wonderous choices). Now, on to the army of Stormwind and the Alliance of Lordaeron!