PDA

View Full Version : [WotR] Angmar 2k list



Hellfury
07-04-2009, 23:08
Witchking on fellbeast Legendary Allies

Glavhar, The Terror of Arnor Legendary

The Tainted mounted Epic Hero

Ghostly Legion (3 companies) Common
Captain

Ghostly Legion (3 companies) Common
Captain

Carn Dm Warband (6 companies) Common
Cheiftain/Banner/Hornblower

Angmar Orc Warband w/ shields (9 companies) Common
Captain/Banner/Drummer

Court of the Fallen Kings formation (1 company) Rare

Morgul Knight formation (3 companies) Rare Allies
Knight Commander/Banner

1980 pts

I wanted this list to be extremely themed but still have a bit of punch in play.
Lots of undead, and a bit more evil men and orcs. I think the weight of numbers should be solid enough. I do not believe that anchoring either flank with the Orcs and the men of Carn Dm should be a problem.
I was on the fence about what calvary to put into the army, but I think that the Morgul Knights make a better synergy with The Tainted than do wargs. Plus, they are kinda sexy.

I really wish I had enough ally points left over to take Grima Wormtongue, just for the fun of it the fun of seeing my opponents cry aloud that is

Is this list made of fail? Win? Meh? Comments and critique welcome of course.

takaetun
08-04-2009, 09:13
Yes! Somone who fields orcs in formations of nine companies! Mwuhaha! Ahem.

I would seriously, seriously reccommend getting banners for your Ghostly Legion. There is nothing worse than rolling a one, then watching your opponent roll a one for his charge, but he gets to reroll it.

Court of the fallen king... Meh. Very overpriced unit. Carn Dum seems great, what are you using for models?

Hellfury
08-04-2009, 09:59
Banners for the legion as well, eh?

Court of the fallen king is just an excuse to use some nice reaper and rackham minis in a unit. They look good and are fluffy. Perhaps if they sit behind the huge orc block and outflank they may be useful. Countercharge unit basically.

Models for the Carn Dm warband are proxied by Corsair plastics. Not very feral, but the best generic humans made in plastic for LotR by GW. But on second thought, those new celt minis from wargames factory might make better and even cheaper plastic alternatives.
http://www.wargamesfactory.com/_product_16676/Celt_Warband_Box_Set
32 figs for $20. You cant beat that with a stick. It gives you exactly 4 company bases.

There is no way in hell that I am paying GW's prices for Dunlendings.

Reinholt
08-04-2009, 20:32
Court of the fallen king... Meh. Very overpriced unit. Carn Dum seems great, what are you using for models?

I could not disagree more.

Having used them several times, this unit is your perfect counter to cavalry and monsters; their special ability means that high resilience units need to live in fear of them. Combined with the fact that they compare strength to courage rather than defense (also usually very bad for the person with high resilience units)...

These are what you use to crush enemy elite units (Ents, Cavalry, etc). From what I've seen using them, they are very, very good.

Chris_Tzeentch
08-04-2009, 21:38
Having used them several times, this unit is your perfect counter to cavalry and monsters; their special ability means that high resilience units need to live in fear of them. Combined with the fact that they compare strength to courage rather than defense (also usually very bad for the person with high resilience units)...

These are what you use to crush enemy elite units (Ents, Cavalry, etc). From what I've seen using them, they are very, very good.

Seconded. They cost a small fortune (Cash and Points) but they are worth it!

Hellfury
09-04-2009, 06:15
So the list is ok other than the legion needing banners then?

albinoork
09-04-2009, 10:08
So the list is ok other than the legion needing banners then?


Goodness, you speak Minnesotan even when you write ;)


What comes out to fit the banners?

lorelorn
09-04-2009, 10:27
List looks great to me. I'd be interested in hearing how you go.

My only comment is to note you haven't taken a Fate. Given the amount of Terror in your army, I think 25 points for the Curse of Morgoth would be a good investment.


For barbarians I find I prefer the Warlord Games Celts http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/celtic-warriors-104-p.asp though you get 30 to a box rather than 32.

Hellfury
09-04-2009, 13:44
Goodness, you speak Minnesotan even when you write ;)
What comes out to fit the banners?
Funny thing is I have only lived here for a couple years. I was born and raised in chicago.

As for what to take out? I have no clue. I would hate to take out any companies to make it fit in there. A bit more thought on that I suppose after I get off work.


My only comment is to note you haven't taken a Fate. Given the amount of Terror in your army, I think 25 points for the Curse of Morgoth would be a good investment.


For barbarians I find I prefer the Warlord Games Celts http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/celtic-warriors-104-p.asp though you get 30 to a box rather than 32.

Good points on the Fate and the celt models, thanks. I forgot all about those and the FLGS has been trying to get me to buy them forever now.

Emissary
09-04-2009, 15:18
I think I would personally exchange the shields on the orcs for great weapons. Def 3-5 is okay, but getting that +1 to wound across the board is pretty nice as well.

I also think a shade would do the army pretty well. The lower fight value on the spirits is really countered pretty easily by the shade and can cripple things like heroic duels (which order forces do so well) and so on. Plus it helps with the great weapons above.

Nu Fenix
09-04-2009, 19:00
My only thought of Shades being near Two-Handed weapons is that the Shade would reduce them to 2, and then the weapons lower them to 1, so your opponent would always get +1 dice. However, I could see them getting more then 1 extra dice most the time, depending on the force involved.

Emissary
09-04-2009, 19:10
The reason why I'm thinking that was is that orcs have a fairly low fight value and it's hindered even more by the great weapons. The shade just helps to push their opponent down to their level. There isn't a lot out there that is going to have a fight value lower then the orcs' 3, but there is a lot out there that is higher, sometimes much higher. Hence, at least to me, the orcs almost always come out on the positive end of the shade's effect. Suffering 1 extra attack against you for each company because of the great weapons is better then suffering 2+ extra attacks.

Reinholt
09-04-2009, 19:47
All true, but the Shade is not free, keep in mind. That's three more companies of orcs and a captain (or potentially many other things) you are giving up to get that.

My issues with shades are twofold:

1 - Are they worth the points? (It depends on your foe, I think)

2 - Will they live? (A good opponent will kill them first, and to be honest, they are pretty fragile)

Nu Fenix
09-04-2009, 19:56
If you surround him with your units, a Shade should be pretty solid. This can be done by one large unit, which isn't hard to do with Orcs, by going for 3 wide frontage, and then the remaining companies going down the left and right hand sides, leaving the centre free so the Shade can hide.

Emissary
09-04-2009, 19:58
1) Well, everything is going to be situational to some degree. If you look at the ghostly legion, riders, spectral host, angmar orcs, and court, they all have a fight of 3 which is on the low side. Most humans, uruks have around a fight of 4 and elves and dwarves are up around 5 iirc. Plus a lot of monsters tend to have a high fight value as well. Ghosts are expensive to only have a fight of 3 and defense of 5, so decreasing the number of attacks against them is pretty important IMO.

2) Well, the shades can hide behind a unit and still get it's effect off (12" is a good distance). There's no reason to keep it on the battleline. It also has an 8" movement so can outpace most regular infantry.

Nilhouse
09-04-2009, 20:10
Shades are definately worth it in particular situations or against some opponents.

Against elves and dwarves they are easily worth it. Against the realms of Men or most other evil forces it is situational.

For instance, if you are charged by a cavalry formation lead by Theoden on an Epic Charge, you want it, since it reduces the Fight value of the unit from 7 to 2. That can save you from 12 attacks wounding on 3's.

It is always great against monsters since they tend to have very high fight values. Dragons, Balrogs, Ent's etc. will lose 6+ attacks.

With that in mind, I'd take one Shade and move it around where it is needed most.

Reinholt
09-04-2009, 20:49
I'm not saying the Shade has no uses; clearly there are ways to use it decently enough. The question I'm asking is if it is good enough to justify the cost you pay for it compared to what else you take.

Is it better, for instance, than a three company strong warg riders unit with a captain to flank charge anything that charges your unit? They are almost exactly the same cost.

This is what I'm considering here; I like the Shade. If they were free, I'd definitely take them. But given fragility (screening with orcs won't work on foes on hills, or anyone with enough cav to maneuver around you, or anyone who can land magic on it) combined with points cost for something that is not directly fighting, I think the question is not "is it good", but rather "could the points be better spent elsewhere?".

My personal answer is "sometimes", as against elves and dwarves, I 100% agree it's beastly, but against gondor and rohan not quite as much.

Hellfury
09-04-2009, 21:55
Hmm good food for thought on the shade.
I haven't tried it yet but it sounds like the same tactic I would use the court of the fallen kings for so the idea isn't too obtuse.

I have to say that I am amzed at how many games people have been getting in with WotR already. Out less than a week and some people are already grognards it seems. ;)

Nu Fenix
09-04-2009, 22:01
I haven't played a game yet, just basing everything I say on theory ;)

For all I know, I could try out everything I have said and be proven completely wrong! I hope not, as I wouldn't know what to do then.

Emissary
09-04-2009, 22:36
Our store has had the WotR book for awhile now; at least a month.

Billpete002
12-04-2009, 07:07
I am pretty sure the fellbeast with nazgul counts as epic hero and not an ally as it would have stated it in the book if you couldn't take a fellbeast as a normal choice.

As for the shade - yes it is situational, but that is what Angmar is all about! As I see it you take a large regiment of orcs (9 formations) on a flank and put the shade right behind it or next to it (based on terrain and how exposed your flank is). in the orc squad either have a nazgul OR a shaman as you want to cast dismay focus 3 spell (the one that takes off courage) and behind those orcs you stick a nice lump of ghost cavalry to run through and charge through the enemies to his rear when stuck in CC.

The combination of that dismay spell plus shade plus spirits is just disgusting for a flank attack and very few units could hold against that kind of punishment.

If you are to ever take an orc formation I would always tack that shaman in the bunch as that dismay spell is WELL worth it with all the spirit touch critters in your army.

Chris_Tzeentch
13-04-2009, 09:59
I am pretty sure the fellbeast with nazgul counts as epic hero and not an ally as it would have stated it in the book if you couldn't take a fellbeast as a normal choice.

That does seems a little harsh, although you are correct.