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Graves
08-04-2009, 05:06
I keep hearing the new lizardmen book is in the top 5 for tournament winning armies but... I can't see it. What is it that I'm not seeing, or more specifically what kind of list, is doing so well?

LKHERO
08-04-2009, 06:25
This is a really easy question that anyone that looked at the new book would know.

Steggies, steggies and more steggies.

Oldblood on Carnasaur, Engine of the Gods, new Slann + TG, Ancient Steggies, Steggies in general, Skink Chief with Stegadon War-spear on Ancient...

Some research would be nice :)

Ultimate Life Form
08-04-2009, 06:31
Yes, I didnīt play too much with the new book, and I donīt play tournaments, but I too find Stegs very worthwhile, and the multi-steg list being surprisingly effective.

SiNNiX
08-04-2009, 06:55
This is a really easy question that anyone that looked at the new book would know.

Some research would be nice :)


First of all, you're mean. If you didn't mean it in a mean" way, then... might wanna reword. Brother's just askin' for some help.

That being said, it's a very strategic army. For example, the 225pt hero Tetto'eko has the capability to re-deploy D3 units after deployment and can make your casters cast Lore of Heavens spells on any rolls of a double. The TG hero is simply ridiculously awesome. Ancient Stegadons with Skink Priests on top is verypowerful, while Slann (even though they still got nerfed) are still very capable, powerful casters. There's just alot of opportunity for limitless tactics and strategy.

Nicha11
08-04-2009, 06:57
First of all, you're a dick.


Where the hell did that come from:confused:

SiNNiX
08-04-2009, 07:00
Lol he just sounded really sarcastic and mean when the dude posting who asked the question was just looking for some help. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's somebody asking a serious question and getting a smart-ass reply to make him feel stupid.

If he wasn't trying to come across that way then I really do apologize. :) I reworded it to be nice.

Revolution
08-04-2009, 07:02
Where the hell did that come from:confused:

The guy was talking to the OP as if he was too stupid or too lazy to check the book or understand how the list can be powerful.

He may not have meant it that way, but that's how it sounded.

- As for the Lizzies, it is possibly to make a cheesy list. (2 Engines and as many stegs as possible) which will roll over many oponents, but that aside, there is also many many options for strategy and many units got buffed such as the Saurus and Temple Guard, as well as the stegs and Carnosaurs - IMO it really is a great list.

SiNNiX
08-04-2009, 07:13
Yeah it's definately a great new book; one of the few that I actually think GW did a good job on (not a huge fan of WOC, DOC [even though I play them =P]). By the way, if you want to see a real cheesy stegadon army, check out my "Ultimate Lizardmen Army" post in the Army Lists forums. =P

Jericho
08-04-2009, 07:24
Yeah I can't believe that for so long people were screaming about how GW screwed up the Lizards, and broke their book. They're still damn good. Slaan still bring a bucket of dice to the table, Oldbloods/Scar Vets can still curbstomp people in combat (Blade of Realities on Carnosaur is getting way too common for my liking!), Saurus got much better, etc. etc. etc.

The thing that astounds me is that a friend of mine took the BOR Carnosaur dude, EOTG, Warspear on Ancient Steg, MSU on Saurus spearmen and Skinks w/ blowpipes, plenty of Chameleons, multiple Salamanders etc. and still got really high sportsmanship/army comp scores. That people were arguing that this is a friendly army list is confusing as hell to me :p

Really the only thing that seemed to get worse in the new book is the Slaan's ability to recklessly throw buckets of dice without fear of miscasting, and the ability for Chameleons/Skinks w/ blowpipes to completely run circles around the enemy. Slaan are a fantastic deal for what they do, and unless they miscast a lot there's not much you can do to reliably shut them down or kill them even if they run around by themselves.

SiNNiX
08-04-2009, 07:35
Yeah but atleast I don't see any 1,000pt Slann anymore. :) Their capability might have diminished but atleast the point cost did, too.

Spirit
08-04-2009, 08:51
Well one of my friends puts it very nicely i think (gonna regret admitting this)

Lizards have no downsides. Look at each aspect.

Heroes: cheap monsters of combat with T5 and a 1+ save with 4 attacks and the best Ld for any hero, easily for under 150 points.

Lords: take your pick, a combat monster capable of killing almost anything on the charge, combined with a mount designed to win challenges or a mage that easily generates 7 power dice before power stones per turn. The slann has no downsides, t4 with 4+ ward and probably 4+ regen makes him unkillable. Perceivable downside? Miscasats... oh wait, you can ignore those aswell!

Magic: although the priests alone are not amazing, the defensive capabilities (i.e diadem of power) allow you to get by by spending 150 points on magic defence to get 5 dispell dice and a scroll, usually enough all the way up to the larger games. Not many armies can match that points/defence ratio.

Core: Tough, 2 attacks, ld9.5 (effectivly) 3+ save in combat. the only percieveable downside is the M4, but the rest of the army easily makes up for this. In larger games a slann forces you to come to them, which erradicates this problem.

Cheap skirmishers with decent ld and very decent shooting. Anything that poses a threat to the tough core gets pincusioned by skinks, easily some of the best skirmishers oi nthe game.

Special: Stegadons... Need i say more. Combined with the (really cheap) heroes and you get the EOTG (not much needed sayting here) or 2d6 S6 impact hits (not much can stand against this) or ld8 stubborn, combine with the fast, cheap core skinks to flank and there isnt much you can do.

Rare: more stegadons, or cheap, panic causing, knight killing flame templates. Again, all really good.

General: Cold blooded and a bsb gives you the most reliable Ld unless your undead! The slann gives your whole army more than ld10, with a re roll.

Every downside you can think of for a lizard army is covered simply by mixing your units to the right level, or adding a slann. It might just be new army syndrome, and people arent used to them yet, but im willing to put money on them staying where they are i nthe tournaments (at least untill the skaven book comes out and the creep continues!)

Ultimate Life Form
08-04-2009, 09:00
Well one of my friends puts it very nicely i think (gonna regret admitting this)

Lizards have no downsides. Look at each aspect.

Heroes: cheap monsters of combat with T5 and a 1+ save with 4 attacks and the best Ld for any hero, easily for under 150 points.

Lords: take your pick, a combat monster capable of killing almost anything on the charge, combined with a mount designed to win challenges or a mage that easily generates 7 power dice before power stones per turn. The slann has no downsides, t4 with 4+ ward and probably 4+ regen makes him unkillable. Perceivable downside? Miscasats... oh wait, you can ignore those aswell!

Magic: although the priests alone are not amazing, the defensive capabilities (i.e diadem of power) allow you to get by by spending 150 points on magic defence to get 5 dispell dice and a scroll, usually enough all the way up to the larger games. Not many armies can match that points/defence ratio.

Core: Tough, 2 attacks, ld9.5 (effectivly) 3+ save in combat. the only percieveable downside is the M4, but the rest of the army easily makes up for this. In larger games a slann forces you to come to them, which erradicates this problem.

Cheap skirmishers with decent ld and very decent shooting. Anything that poses a threat to the tough core gets pincusioned by skinks, easily some of the best skirmishers oi nthe game.

Special: Stegadons... Need i say more. Combined with the (really cheap) heroes and you get the EOTG (not much needed sayting here) or 2d6 S6 impact hits (not much can stand against this) or ld8 stubborn, combine with the fast, cheap core skinks to flank and there isnt much you can do.

Rare: more stegadons, or cheap, panic causing, knight killing flame templates. Again, all really good.

General: Cold blooded and a bsb gives you the most reliable Ld unless your undead! The slann gives your whole army more than ld10, with a re roll.

Every downside you can think of for a lizard army is covered simply by mixing your units to the right level, or adding a slann. It might just be new army syndrome, and people arent used to them yet, but im willing to put money on them staying where they are i nthe tournaments (at least untill the skaven book comes out and the creep continues!)

Oh, fantastic! I like what you said about my favorite army! I could listen all day!:D

The only real weakness I feel is that Skink Priests on their own arenīt capable of much during Magic Phase. With Lore of Heavens, you just have too high a chance to roll useless spells. Comet is uncastable for L2. Tried it around 8 times in a single game and got nothing but miscasts for it. The damage Spells are decent (roasted an entire unit of WE riders during first turn (and I had the first go:D) with a single try on sunday), but you only have a 1/3 chance to get one, and the rest is just too situational to justify the 150 pts for a Priest.

Vsurma
08-04-2009, 09:41
I agree, heavens is not good on a lv2 mage, but on a lv3 (priest on engine) its great, throw in plaque of tepok for a 3rd spell and there is a very good chance you will get atleast 1 good spell, comet, or one of the 2 magic missiles.

The reroll 1s is actually a great spell but mostly in CC and second sign is also nice. Problem is they are situational spells and as you said comet is too hard on a lv2.

Slann and tepok priest combo seems nice though.

There is still a small chance you won't roll any of the 3 spells you want which is annoying but considering the priest has only 3 dice, all you need is 1 of these spells and it can happily use all its dice on this 1 spell (or use 4 if you get comet)

Given the choice I would probably not take heaven, but combined with the Slann choosing which lore it wants and using all the pool dice aswell, I am ok with heavens. Only problem is taking plaque of tepok eats into your magic item allowence for the priest.

dsw1
08-04-2009, 09:57
The only real weakness I feel is that Skink Priests on their own arenīt capable of much during Magic Phase. With Lore of Heavens, you just have too high a chance to roll useless spells. Comet is uncastable for L2.

My level 2 rolls comet and got it off 2 times in a row last game, it was amazing! That one little dude won me the game (against daemons too :D).

I personally think the biggest weakness of the lizardmen army is the balance. it takes alot to balance an army and get it right, no unit is spectacular or "game winning" till you add a character to it (eg. Temple guard suck until you add a slann ect.) thus making the unit far more expensive.

Their magic items in general are not that great, sure they have 1 or two good ones, but overall they are kind of pants. While you get Blade of Realities, Reverse blade etc. there are to many things out there to counter them (eg. chaos rune shield, that 'thirster armour, special characters) which seems to becoming more of a trend within newer fantasy armies (like the armour that crumbled was a trend for a few 6th ed books).

It is just small things like that, that make the lizards a little worse in my eyes (I am afraid to say :(). Nothing in the new book really strikes me as "wow, i'd love to have that in my army!", more just "well, that's different, not exciting, just different."

Ultimate Life Form
08-04-2009, 10:05
Nothing in the new book really strikes me as "wow, i'd love to have that in my army!", more just "well, that's different, not exciting, just different."

And you consider it a flaw? Honestly, I think itīs a good thing if itīs so balanced you want to take everything equally. Saves Units from collecting dust, like Storm Vermin. It makes for an incredible number of possible combinations. By your words, you would prefer every army to have exactly 1 good core choice, 1 good Elite choice, and 1 good Rare choice, `cuz you wouldnīt take anything else anyway? And besides, I donīt get your point with magic items then. 4 or 5 good magic items should be enough, you canīt take more anyway.

Vsurma
08-04-2009, 10:18
I think there are a fair few good items, nothing spectacular I suppose but the following are quite nice:

Steed of shadows for scar vet
Rod of storm
bane head
curse item that forces T tests (kills teclis 30% of the time wtf)
Rebound 1st miscast onto enemy wizard on 2+ (combine that with reroll miscast result)

Granted there is not much choice, you have 3-4 characters and 4-5 items to take so you won't be changing it up much, still, each of these items seems nice for their cost.

dsw1
08-04-2009, 10:52
And you consider it a flaw? Honestly, I think itīs a good thing if itīs so balanced you want to take everything equally. Saves Units from collecting dust, like Storm Vermin. It makes for an incredible number of possible combinations. By your words, you would prefer every army to have exactly 1 good core choice, 1 good Elite choice, and 1 good Rare choice, `cuz you wouldnīt take anything else anyway? And besides, I donīt get your point with magic items then. 4 or 5 good magic items should be enough, you canīt take more anyway.

That wasn't exactly what I meant, I think I need to re-phrase it lol.

As for units, nothing really strikes me as something i'd want to have, if you get my meaning? I'll use an example from a different army, skaven since you used the storm vermin reference; Within a skaven army, a few units strike me as "wow I'd love to have that in my army" such as giant rats for instance. Not that they are any good, but because I'd like the idea of having a unit of huge rats running at my enemy (aka, the idea of the units rather than their effectiveness). Now with the lizards, nothing in the new army strikes me as "wow, I like the concept of the unit" more like "well it is different, I'll grant it that, but I don't particularly get its 'feel'".

Hopefully that clears up that little error :).

As for the magic items thing, if you look at other armies, they have items that if taken with other items produce a nice little combo, where as with the lizardmen items, it has more of a one use purpose. For example, warriors have the puppet and black tongue which work well together, and also work excellent on their own, we have Items that don't really get used with other items like that, more of the item is geared towards one specific goal and that's it. I'm not saying those one specific purpose items are rubbish, it would just be nice to have them work along side other items.

I also think that some of the items are no-brainers (diadem for example) where as I'd prefer a little more flexibility of items, I mean if a few of the rubbish items formed a some-what alright combo, then I'd take some of them instead of sticking to the no-brainers. But the way it has worked out, some of the items are never going to be used (amulet of itzl for example will be RARELY used, and cude of darkness (now you can't get the spawning of the old ones) will be used a lot less.

I hope this cleared up those misunderstandings?

Shamfrit
08-04-2009, 11:33
I disagree with the magic item selection, although of course, I'm a Lizardmen player and it's the first army I've actually painted 2 full units for and I'm happy to continue doing so because the whole package is excellent; so far:

Diadem of Power - yeah, this beast is good, it's really good, a dice saving device that can give your otherwise 'useless' Skink Priest even more dispel dice potential. Lately however, since everyone tends to run straight at the priest I've tempted to switch ownership to the Slann and run Banehead on my Scar Veteran alongside Pirahna Blade (I've never seen anything run through so many Fleshounds in all my life :D).

Burning Blade of Chotec - a very nifty, very cheap and very useful magic weapon. On a Scar Veteran/Old Blood you're looking at -4 to armour saves, and regen negation with magical attacks for an absolute steal of 20 points - Pirahna Blade too is immense against Daemons, Ogres, large targets and so on. Sword of the Hornet is tactile but looses out against High Elves, and 6 ASF STR5 attacks from an Old Blood is something most players won't expect, but regret when their otherwise quick character is mowed down. Revered Blade of Tzunki and Blade of Realities are of course both must haves for an Old Blood, but they really weaken his potential by costing so much - defensive capabilities drop, and so I'm tempted to stick to Pirahna Blade even for him.

Charm of the Jaguar Warrior, Cloak of Feathers, Ixti Grubs (Comet on Two dice = easy with this,) Blood Statuette, Aura of Quetzl and Shield of the Mirrored Pool are al perfectly useable, but don't see the light of day much because 'Slann Build 32' or X build take over and become so useful. I rarely run an Oldblood, so I don't use these items. I do use Blood Statue every game, and the Fear Banner.

Just experiment!

PARTYCHICORITA
08-04-2009, 12:28
Yeah I can't believe that for so long people were screaming about how GW screwed up the Lizards, and broke their book.

This makes me laugh as well and it also happened when the DE book came out; lots of players saying how the DE were still a lower tier army.

LM do have a very nice book but i also agree their magic item choices are pretty lame; IMO only 3-4 of them tops are useful and most of them are overpriced. The lizzies can put the best of fights with only 2 items or less.

OFF topic: Dunno where to ask this so i'm gonna ask it anyway... Shamfrit, what's the picture on your avatar? My first impression was Harry Potter with a shotgun but i assume that's not it.

Spirit
08-04-2009, 13:29
I must agree with the magic items. There are some that just never get used, and some that are too situational for good effect.

Would anyone really waste 25 points on a one use item that causes a toughness test on a character? Considering they only (usually, if T4 is used) have a 1/3 chance in failing, so about a 1/9 chance of taking 2 wounds from it, ive never seen it as worth the points.

Or 100 points for stubborn cavel=ry, while an army COULD be built around that, it's never really gonna be done.

However, the magic items that are good, are really good (poisoned attacks for 10 points, never get March blocked and 12" +1 to rally for 30 points, bound pwr lvl 6 no armour save spell) and most people will take them in every game.

Vsurma
08-04-2009, 14:06
I certainly like the blood statue.

its 25pts and has a 66% chance to do a wound on a T2 character such as an enemy skink priest (or did we have T3 can't remember) or teclis who is T2 if I recall. 44% to kill said enemy priest or 30% to kill that 300pts teclis character.

Even putting 1 wound on them will make it easy to terradon snipe the character or something similar.

T3 still has a 50% chance to take a hit or 25% chance to kill.

The average scroll caddy is T3 and costs 115-150pts

Using the 150pts as an example that statue will cause an average of 75pts worth of damage against T3, more against T2 and less against T4.

Seems ok to me, especially considering the chance to off teclis, or to actually use it to take out a character left on 1 wound, say I manage to wound a character down to 1 wound (might even me a 300pts elf on dragon), this could be used to finnish it off.

Or just to draw out an enemy scroll.

Spirit
08-04-2009, 14:11
I guess it just comes down to who your going to play. I very rarely seem to play against T3 heroes, so it's of no use to me.

N810
08-04-2009, 14:15
well Lizardmen are not without their weaknesses...

No real long range shooting (steg bow doesn't count),
low initive,
a lot of units are considered over priced for what they do
mediocre magic items.

that being said they are a fairly ballanced and varied army.

Finnigan2004
08-04-2009, 14:16
I just put it on a temple guard champion to draw out a scroll. It makes dark elves with the pendant really sweat. Actually, it makes elves in general sweat.

Shamfrit
08-04-2009, 14:37
Elves and humans, opposing Lizardmen armies, Skaven, there are a large number of regular opponents who will have something worthwhile you can Statuette, Beastmen too, let's not forget the Blue Scribes, Changeling, unit champion special character, unit champions with banners (Undead/Empire etc.)

Plenty of scope.

Spirit
08-04-2009, 14:53
Elves and humans, opposing Lizardmen armies, Skaven, there are a large number of regular opponents who will have something worthwhile you can Statuette, Beastmen too, let's not forget the Blue Scribes, Changeling, unit champion special character, unit champions with banners (Undead/Empire etc.)

Plenty of scope.


well thats what i'm saying, for me, i never fight beastmen, daemons, lizardmen and very rarely humans, elves and skaven. Id rather have the rod of storm.

Also, you cant pick out champions with banners. Banner bearers are not characters.

Ri-xthoal Lord of Lustira
08-04-2009, 15:35
You guys forget shooting at LM. LM are not that strong against firepower like that.

Bac5665
08-04-2009, 15:48
I just wanted to say that steggies don't kill people. Warspears and EoTGs kill people.

Lizards can be a very strong army, but I don't actually see them being broken. They can be taken the edge with some builds, but I've yet to see a lizardmen list that couldn't be beat by DE.

Shamfrit
08-04-2009, 16:22
Good point Spirit, thenjust unit champions then...out of interest, what armies do you play? :wtf:

LKHERO
08-04-2009, 16:41
First of all, you're mean. If you didn't mean it in a mean" way, then... might wanna reword. Brother's just askin' for some help.

Why are you so butt hurt? Anyone here can browse through the 7th ed. Lizard's tactica that's floating around the first-second page. Not to mention its the first thing that comes up when Lizard- is typed into the search parameters.

Anyways, there's only one magical item that I think it's borderline OP for its cost, and that item is Bane Head. This item allows you to nominate 1 enemy character on the field and your character that carries it deals 2x the amount of wounds caused.

What I think is utterly, utterly powerful about this is a Slann with Lore of Metal and +1 die to cast. Think of the possibilities against any heavy armored uber lord? Or even casting something of a magical missile vs a Bloodthirster? You FORCE the opponent to throw down dispel dice or lose his Lord because he can't afford to let something as simple as Rule of Burning Iron (first spell of Metal, 5+ to cast) through that you casted with ONE die but get a free one because it does x2 vs his Lord.

Bane Head is mind game galore.. and that's what makes it amazing. Every Slann should have this item. Your magic value and threat level just increased by 10 fold.

N810
08-04-2009, 16:47
True but it got a little nerfed....
you used to be able to target anything with it.

Spirit
08-04-2009, 16:48
Good point Spirit, thenjust unit champions then...out of interest, what armies do you play? :wtf:

Lol, theres loads of chaos at my store, orks, vampires (who uses his previous tomb king army as vampires...), an ogre player, some daemons (but no power play daemons yet... ) my cousin has skaven so it could be usefull against him.

If i'm being honest your probably right, most armies have a target for it, i guess im just unlucky with it lol. Ive managed to kill a wood elf mage before, but she was only on one wound and my slannw as dominating anyway lol.


Now im curious, what's your opinion? Im going to a doubles tournament in a couple of weeks, My army is an EOTG, 20 skink skirmishers and 3 kroxigor (only 750 points and my ally has no mages, so im there for the magic defence lol)

I have the diadem of power on the priest for 6 dispell dice, so i effectivly have 3 power dice (4 or 5 if needed) and one bound spell from a tree man. Do you think i should take a scroll or the blood statute? While i like the scroll as a backup cusion, im thinking the statue might be usefull.

What toughness are the blue scribes?

LKHERO
08-04-2009, 16:59
True but it got a little nerfed....
you used to be able to target anything with it.

Yes.. but now Slann have +1 die to each cast.

You're essentially tossing 1 power dice and possibly making your opponent need 3 to effectively dispel Rule of Burning Iron (a 5+ to cast spell) or lose his BSB.

There's nothing that can compare to such power for 15 points in the realm of magic. And this is why if I ever make Lizards, my army will always consist of a Slann with Rumination of Focus (+1 die to cast for each spell), Focus of Mystery (know all spells), Becalming Cognition (enemy wizard in 24" loses all rolls of 6s), BSB + Warbanner, Bane Head, and maybe 2x Power Stones. The sheer magnitude of mind games he can now play justified his use.

Not to mention with 1 die you can confidently cast Spirit of the Forge with a Power Stone. Now that's power.

N810
08-04-2009, 17:02
true but 2nd gen slann used to get +1 [die] to cast and +1 [die] to dispell <---- [oops]

Ps. I was talking about the Bane Head before

LKHERO
08-04-2009, 17:05
true but 2nd gen slann used to get +1 to cast and +1 to dispell

Ps. I was talking about the Bane Head before

Yeah, but a 2nd Gen Slann used to be how many points? I'm happy with just the +1 die to cast considering his points now.

To dispel? Not a problem. My list runs a Slann + TG + 2x EotG + extras. I got 8 dispel die per turn + Scroll + Cube.

Shamfrit
08-04-2009, 17:14
In your list, Diadem and Scroll is too much, 6 dispel dice is more than adequate with the Wood Elf Speed and your shooting, however, do not be fooled into complacancy, one warmachine not got too quick enough and your game is over - so I'd think twic about taking an Engine in a 750 point list, it's what, 60-70% of your list in one character, who is easily march blocked and not moveable.

A skink on foot with Diadem and a Scar Veteran or two would go miles more, as would a couple of throwaway Cohorts, even I, who is fond of big characters, wouldn't be that risky. You need more things to take objectives for sure.

Blood Statuette and Diadem for sure either way.

LKHERO
08-04-2009, 17:23
In your list, Diadem and Scroll is too much, 6 dispel dice is more than adequate with the Wood Elf Speed and your shooting, however, do not be fooled into complacancy, one warmachine not got too quick enough and your game is over - so I'd think twic about taking an Engine in a 750 point list, it's what, 60-70% of your list in one character, who is easily march blocked and not moveable.

A skink on foot with Diadem and a Scar Veteran or two would go miles more, as would a couple of throwaway Cohorts, even I, who is fond of big characters, wouldn't be that risky. You need more things to take objectives for sure.

Blood Statuette and Diadem for sure either way.

I only play 2250 though :) And I use min core 3 groups of 10x Skink Skrims. My exact list is something like:

Kitted out Slann BSB with Bane Head.
Skink Chief w/ War-spear on a Ancient.
2x EotG with Scroll + Cube.
3 groups of 10x Skink Skrimies.
As many TG as I have room for.

It's not a super friendly list because it has 10 levels of Magic and 3 Steggies. It's a very good list I think.. except War Machines scare me unless I roll some Comets and get lucky on 5+ Ward saves :)

Jericho
08-04-2009, 19:43
I definitely think that overlooking the capabilities of a L2(3) priest on EoTG is a mistake. Going pure magic defense is a massive waste against many armies. Taking a pair of EoTG priests with Plaque of Tepok and Rod of The Storm etc. still gives you a great return on your investment even without a Slaan.

BTW anyone who hasn't tried casting Portent of Far on something like a battery of Salamanders/Razordons, on a Warspear Steg, or on a Slaan casting fire/metal you're in for a treat. After spamming this spell every game with my support mage in a Dogs of War army I can't stress enough how good this spell can be. So good, and for 5+ to cast. The best part is that people often save DD for other spells so you get your boost on every spell that does get through.

Shamfrit
08-04-2009, 20:08
I only play 2250 though :) And I use min core 3 groups of 10x Skink Skrims. My exact list is something like:

Kitted out Slann BSB with Bane Head.
Skink Chief w/ War-spear on a Ancient.
2x EotG with Scroll + Cube.
3 groups of 10x Skink Skrimies.
As many TG as I have room for.

It's not a super friendly list because it has 10 levels of Magic and 3 Steggies. It's a very good list I think.. except War Machines scare me unless I roll some Comets and get lucky on 5+ Ward saves :)

I was talking to Spirit :p

Zoolander
08-04-2009, 21:09
Well one of my friends puts it very nicely i think (gonna regret admitting this)

Lizards have no downsides. Look at each aspect.

I see them as having plenty of downsides. Their troops are not exactly cheap, they are usually slow, they have horrible initiative (It's almost like having a ASL rule. Combined means that they will often get charged first and go second in each combat round - never a good thing), they don't have the best WS either, hitting many opponents on 4s. Their missile troops usually have BS 3, which isn't exactly great, either, and they have no war machines except the normal steggy (and maybe the short range salamanders). Also, Heavens is not a great college for level 2 wizards, honestly, and they lack the flexibility to switched lists, and they have limited magic item selection.

But their pluses definitely outweigh all those minuses! Great lord choices (I am actually believing Old One on carnosaur is a worse enemy than a BT on average! And the Slann + TG block is VERY hard to get rid off), solid combat troops with decent to good armor and toughness, poison on almost every ranged attack, great specials and rares. The thing I like about them is that they seem to have an important part of each phase of the game (movement, shooting, magic, combat), and their 2d6 cold blooded makes them extrememly reliable without being itp, so they can flee and almost always rally. Very important tactics. Just my 2 cents!

Spirit
08-04-2009, 21:27
In your list, Diadem and Scroll is too much, 6 dispel dice is more than adequate with the Wood Elf Speed and your shooting, however, do not be fooled into complacancy, one warmachine not got too quick enough and your game is over - so I'd think twic about taking an Engine in a 750 point list, it's what, 60-70% of your list in one character, who is easily march blocked and not moveable.

A skink on foot with Diadem and a Scar Veteran or two would go miles more, as would a couple of throwaway Cohorts, even I, who is fond of big characters, wouldn't be that risky. You need more things to take objectives for sure.

Blood Statuette and Diadem for sure either way.

See we thought of the cannon problem and we think we have it nailed. Woods block line of sight, and we get a free one, right in the middle of the table. Wherever the cannons go, the stegadon gets placed with the wood blocking it.

It may seem like a load of points but it comes down to what i have painted lol. Will try the statute out on the practice tournament we have on saturday.

Plus, im not going to be afraid to use the EOTG as a regular stegadon, the priest isnt exactly easy to kill lol.

Also the tournament is all pitched battles, so no objectives except table quarters, which arent a problem with the amout of crap we have lol.

Spirit
08-04-2009, 21:30
I only play 2250 though :) And I use min core 3 groups of 10x Skink Skrims. My exact list is something like:

Kitted out Slann BSB with Bane Head.
Skink Chief w/ War-spear on a Ancient.
2x EotG with Scroll + Cube.
3 groups of 10x Skink Skrimies.
As many TG as I have room for.

It's not a super friendly list because it has 10 levels of Magic and 3 Steggies. It's a very good list I think.. except War Machines scare me unless I roll some Comets and get lucky on 5+ Ward saves :)

This is the kind of list i would never use unless my opponent really did something nasty. Like the holocaust maybe. But just maybe.

I want to keep my friends in the store not alienate them..

LKHERO
08-04-2009, 22:10
This is the kind of list i would never use unless my opponent really did something nasty. Like the holocaust maybe. But just maybe.

I want to keep my friends in the store not alienate them..

Well, there's a 14 PD VC guy, an all-monster + Dragon DE guy, a Thorek guy, a Star Dragon guy (normally me), a crazy PD Tzeentch Daemon guy, an all-tree WE guy..

I guess it all depends on the metagame :D

N810
08-04-2009, 22:12
Wow what a chederfest :P

LKHERO
08-04-2009, 22:14
Wow what a chederfest :P

Completely fine with me because it makes for good practice for upcoming tournaments :)

Except most of us don't take those lists for the most part; we pretty much all play balanced lists with no special characters unless we feel like it. On some days, I just feel like bringing Skulltaker to claim some skulls on a 5+.

Gork or Possibly Mork
08-04-2009, 22:43
I only play 2250 though :) And I use min core 3 groups of 10x Skink Skrims. My exact list is something like:

Kitted out Slann BSB with Bane Head.
Skink Chief w/ War-spear on a Ancient.
2x EotG with Scroll + Cube.
3 groups of 10x Skink Skrimies.
As many TG as I have room


That is a pretty gross list. If you're worried about warmachines drop the SkinkChief, add terradons and a skink priest with cloak of feathers put both EotG's in the TG unit with the sun standard. Give your Slann Heavens and rod of storms. One EotG activates -1 to cast while the other activates Portant of warding.

You can hide the DeathStar behind some trees the first few turns while terradons take out most of the warmachines them bring the unit out and spam the hell out of them with heavens spells. Anything fast enough to come near ( that doesn't get lightning'ed to death ) will have to deal with double charging EotG impact hits and double burning alignments..and terror US 20 etc. Mean while skink skirmishers whittle away units, march block and redirect.

Of course if you roll bad for spells it won't work but in theory you could take an army out ( or cripple it badly ) before it has a chance to see combat.

Personally I would never take more than one EotG..and a Slann but we play more balanced list so I can see why you would. 2 Steggies is my limit and only one of them is a EotG.

Ri-xthoal Lord of Lustira
09-04-2009, 04:21
I hope that they'll give saurus warrior WS4 (initiative I don't really care as long a tactica is planned correctly.)

Having a slann in 2250 is not hard to pace as general as long he isn't above +360 or greater.

blackjack
09-04-2009, 04:26
Would anyone really waste 25 points on a one use item that causes a toughness test on a character? Considering they only (usually, if T4 is used) have a 1/3 chance in failing, so about a 1/9 chance of taking 2 wounds from it, ive never seen it as worth the points.

The blood statue is usfull when combined with the bane head against a low T enemy. If you want to custom build a list against Teclis for instance. But you are right it would rarely find a place in an all comers army.

Spirit
09-04-2009, 13:07
The blood statue is usfull when combined with the bane head against a low T enemy. If you want to custom build a list against Teclis for instance. But you are right it would rarely find a place in an all comers army.

Both those items are enchanted, how do you intend to combine them?

Xynok
09-04-2009, 19:55
I think the new lizards look fine. Good options for dealing with stuff. NOT a fan of the stupid amount of stegs you can use but besides that they seem fine. Rubbish trinkets though - not all but some are too pricey

Atzcapotzalco
09-04-2009, 19:57
I won't go so far as to give a killer list, but I can name one big strength of the current lizardman book.

Their infantry.
Saurus with spears, with 2 ranks and 2 S4 attacks per rank, are the most downright terrifying core infantry short of, maybe, chaos warriors. If it came down to it, they could have a fair try even at facing chaos warriors in a straight fight. They can take on a fair amount of special and rare choices too, and some armies don't really have anything that's a match for them in a straight fight. For this sort of fighting ability, their points cost represents a significant discount, and they can be accompanied by some of the strongest fighting characters in the game.
Temple guard have a higher points cost, but even more armour, halberds, and the possibility of being very close to unbreakable if guarding a slann.
Skink+krox, while lacking the raw fighting power of the saurus, have a lot of utility as a support unit for, again, a low points cost.
Excellent back-up for the saurus, and combined with them a very solid core to build a lizardman army around.