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rtunian
08-04-2009, 14:07
here's the situation:
i charged my black orcs into his black knights' flank, having passed my fear test. his bl.kgts were previously arranged 3x3, due to a necessary reform on the previous turn to squeeze by some other units and impassable terrain (he had reformed from 5x2 to 3x3, then next turn charged my chariot, which held, and then i counter charged with blorcs on my next turn). at the end of the combat in which they charged my chariot, my chariot fled, so they were not in combat again until my blorcs charged

the question is:
on the vc player next turn, what happens with the black knight unit?

we couldn't decide whether the bk unit reforms as 5x2, or if it stays as 3x3. in the end, we reformed him as 5x2, facing the blorcs (and the steeds got attacks as well)

thank you

stripsteak
08-04-2009, 14:26
on his next turn nothing would happen with them since you can't voluntarily reform a unit in combat.

you can only change a unit if it wins combat and it is done then at the end of that combat. the rules for what you can do are on pg 46 under free maneuvers.

rtunian
08-04-2009, 14:55
edit: i can read, really!

the problem was that his command squad was not touching my blorcs... i thought the command group was always re-arranged into the "front" after the turn, whichever side the front happened to be (ie the flank that i attacked from becomes the front, since he is not in combat with anyone but the blorcs). but wouldn't that imply a reform? i'm talking about p.80

what i mean is, because the champ & standard have to be in the front, that meanst hey have to move around, so wouldn't they reform into a 5x2? also, wouldn't they turn to face the "new" front, so that the steeds can now attack?

the command group rules say nothing about what to do if they are not in the front rank during combat

Atrahasis
08-04-2009, 15:01
A unit charged in the flank does not automatically turn to face the attackers, even if unengaged on every other side.

If you're flanked, the only way you can get out of it is to flee, make the other guys flee, or win combat and execute a turn manoeuvre. If you then win a second round, you can expand frontage.

Chaos Undecided
08-04-2009, 15:04
The Black Knights can't reform to face the Black Orcs they're stuck with you in their flank until either you run or they crumble, the command cannot move from the front of the unit only an attached character would be able to reposition itself to become involved in the combat on a subsequent turn to the Black Orcs charge.

Edit: actually rechecking the command pages the champion can move into a position where he can fight in a subsequent turn just like normal characters, but the std bearer and musician stay put.

Spirit
08-04-2009, 15:09
Edit: Im stupid...

stripsteak
08-04-2009, 15:29
for command. the banner and musician still work since they are still in the front rank of the unit. even if the unit is engaged in the side. the champion is free to move in the front rank on the vampires turn can be moved over in the front rank to engage the blorcs.

Spirit
08-04-2009, 16:09
for command. the banner and musician still work since they are still in the front rank of the unit. even if the unit is engaged in the side. the champion is free to move in the front rank on the vampires turn can be moved over in the front rank to engage the blorcs.

Partly true, but standards only work if they are in the fighting rank, in the front of the unit.

So no +1 if you get flanked and are not fighting the enemy. More reasont o put your standars on the left most or right most part of the unit.


Battle standrads only specify "in the fighting rank" so you can move the hero to the flank and still get +1 even if he is no longer in the front rank.

rtunian
08-04-2009, 16:24
i think i'm getting it...
so the black knight champion would move to the "front", to fight with the blorcs, but the black knight unit would still be arranged in the 3x3 that they were in when i charged.

one thing i'm still unclear on:
would the black knights stay facing the side, in other words... would i get the +1 cr flank bonus in subsequent rounds of combat, and additionally would the steeds be unable to fight, because they are facing sideways?

stripsteak
08-04-2009, 17:17
Partly true, but standards only work if they are in the fighting rank, in the front of the unit.

So no +1 if you get flanked and are not fighting the enemy. More reasont o put your standars on the left most or right most part of the unit.


Battle standrads only specify "in the fighting rank" so you can move the hero to the flank and still get +1 even if he is no longer in the front rank.

no regular standards just have to be in the front rank. pg 80 combat result bonus "a unit that has a standard bearer in it's front rank adds +1 to it's combat result..."

a BSB can either be in the front rank, or anyway involved in the fighting, either moved to the rear or side to fight. (pg 82)


i think i'm getting it...
so the black knight champion would move to the "front", to fight with the blorcs, but the black knight unit would still be arranged in the 3x3 that they were in when i charged.

one thing i'm still unclear on:
would the black knights stay facing the side, in other words... would i get the +1 cr flank bonus in subsequent rounds of combat, and additionally would the steeds be unable to fight, because they are facing sideways?

yes unless the black knights won combat they would still be in the same formation. but the champion can move around in the front rank to be in b2b with the orcs like so(CK is the champion, stacked to denote facing):
[code]

OOOCBB
OOOKKK
OOOBBB
OOOKKK

You will remain in their flank and get the flank bonus round after round until they are dead, flee or win combat and turn to face you.

mounts can attack to the side just fine. it is only chariot pullers that are not allowed to attack to the side.

Spirit
08-04-2009, 17:22
Im sorry, i must have been mistaken, i know there was something that worked like this but iv'e gotten confused somewhere, sorry.

stripsteak
08-04-2009, 17:30
Im sorry, i must have been mistaken, i know there was something that worked like this but iv'e gotten confused somewhere, sorry.

don't feel bad I had to go and double check myself cause i wasn't completely sure, and i know i've seen it mentioned as being in the fighting rank on other posts on this board as well.