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View Full Version : somthing ive never understood (space marines)



Mannimarco
09-04-2009, 14:59
why exactly were the relictors wiped out by the inquisition? the gathered up chaos equipment, locked it away and studdied it trying to find a way to master it and they were destroyed but the ultramarines and space wolves both have chapter masters who use chaos equipment and nobody bats an eyelid at them

does that seem odd to anybody else? its like if you wanna use the weapons of the enemy you had better be a 1st founding chapter

Bekenel
09-04-2009, 15:11
The Ultramarines and Space Wolves have a lot more influence than the Relictors did, for a start. Also pretty sure that they have one. The Relictors actively hunted and used Chaos weapons to try and understand/use Chaos, by my understanding. That's massively different.

Lord Damocles
09-04-2009, 15:12
To be fair, the Relictors kind of sealed their own fate when they attacked an inquisitorial base during the Eye of Terror campaign and stole an (unknown, but presumeably deamonic) artefact from the vault.

EDIT: But don't worry! Codex SurfLoveIn Space Marines seems to have retconned the Relictors being beat down:


RELICTORS
The Inquisition has become suspicious that the Relictors are developing an unhealthy fascination with tainted artefacts. As a result, they have requested that other Space Marine Chapters keep a close watch upon the Relictors' activities lest they turn renegade.

invinciblebug
09-04-2009, 15:13
The relictors used daemons and demonic artefacts in their hunt against chaos, they also killed loyal guardsmen to get to these demonic artefacts. They also refused to answer any calls for help or requests of aid from high ranking people and basically went their own way, doing what they wanted and cut them self of from the rest of the imperium.

Mannimarco
09-04-2009, 15:19
they attacked an inquisition base? wow yeah that should do it

ive always thought there were many chapters who did their own thing, ignoring the imperial chain of command (Dark Angels sprig to mind)

killing loyalist guardsmen, even other imperial forces will destroy guard forces who have got their hands on chaos equipment, just to be sure theyre not corrupted

wernt the relictors created from ultramarine stock? i would have thought this would have kept them ok

Hicks
09-04-2009, 15:21
Thay have been wiped out? I guess the problem stems from the fact that the Relictors dodn't have that great a knowledge of Chaos to start with. The Inquisition on the other hands fully knows what corrupting effect Chaos artifacts can have (look at Fulgrim). I think they just couldn't risk having a marine chapter turn.

As for the UM and SW chapter masters, I'm pretty sure their weapons have been deemed free of corrupting taint by the Inquisition, or if these artifacts were gathered before the Inquisition existed, they have now proven themselves free of taint. This isn't the same thing as taking corrupted weapons and using them when at the same time you're trying to hide them from the #1 authority in warp artefact safety.

Lord Damocles
09-04-2009, 15:22
wernt the relictors created from ultramarine stock? i would have thought this would have kept them ok
A mix of Ultramarine and Dark Angel IIRC

AmKhaibitu
09-04-2009, 15:22
It's really quite simple.

There was an artifact that they really wanted, that an inquisitor also wanted.

They chose to take it away from him and made the small mistake of not actually killing the bastard.

He was such a cry baby about them beating him that he called in his buddies the Grey Knights and co, and convinced people that the Relictors were bad.

In the end the Relictors were ousted and he got the artifact.

Mannimarco
09-04-2009, 15:26
that sounds about right lol

i always thought they were reluctant to use dark angels stock to create new chapters, maybe im thinking of sombody else as they do have a couple of successors

Lord Damocles
09-04-2009, 15:36
i always thought they were reluctant to use dark angels stock to create new chapters, maybe im thinking of sombody else as they do have a couple of successors
-Sounds of rustling parchments-
Ah, here we go...

...thought to be composed of that grown from the Ultramarines and Dark Angels. If this is the case then it would appear that the High Lords of Terra's reluctance to sanction the useage of Dark Angel's geenseed in the creation of new Chapters has relaxed somewhat...
Now what's that saying about a moment of laxity...? :p

Chairman_woo
09-04-2009, 15:39
As I understand it from the fluff the relictors are seen by others as haveing an "unhealthy" obsession with tainted artifacts. i.e. the inquisition (amongst others I imagine) simply dosent have the trust/faith in their piety. Inquisitors have to make (usually) educated judgements on a case by case basis. As were they ever to enforce the full letter of imperial law/creedo then at the very least, the blood angels, dark angels, black templars etc. and possibly even any chapter that does not directly adhear to the codex astartes would have to go with them. Along with a whole host of planetary and system governments, rogue traders, endless guard regements and fleet crew.
Then when you factor in the fact that the interpretation of the law/emperors will in matters of faith and imperial integrity are hugeley debated and contested at almost all levels of the imperium, (especially within the inquisition) it seems to me that a chapter, planet etc. is tollerated/supported or condemmed based largley on the beliefs, oppinions and temprement of whosoever has the will and capability to act on them.

As I understand it fluff wize (newest SM codex) the relictors are being watched carefully by the inquisition, but have yet to be "fully sanctioned". Where has it been suggested they were purged? I'm curious.

Mannimarco
09-04-2009, 15:39
things dont look good for the DA do they? theres always been the rumour that they were corrupt and the fallen were the good guys and now marines created from DA stock are using chaos equipment

sydbridges
09-04-2009, 15:48
As I understand it from the fluff the relictors are seen by others as haveing an "unhealthy" obsession with tainted artifacts. i.e. the inquisition (amongst others I imagine) simply dosent have the trust/faith in their piety. Inquisitors have to make (usually) educated judgements on a case by case basis. As were they ever to enforce the full letter of imperial law/creedo then at the very least, the blood angels, dark angels, black templars etc. and possibly even any chapter that does not directly adhear to the codex astartes would have to go with them. Along with a whole host of planetary and system governments, rogue traders, endless guard regements and fleet crew.
Then when you factor in the fact that the interpretation of the law/emperors will in matters of faith and imperial integrity are hugeley debated and contested at almost all levels of the imperium, (especially within the inquisition) it seems to me that a chapter, planet etc. is tollerated/supported or condemmed based largley on the beliefs, oppinions and temprement of whosoever has the will and capability to act on them.

On the sliding scale of heresy, "is using Chaos artefacts to understand Chaos itself and use Chaos against itself" is much closer to HERESY! than it is to heresy.


As I understand it fluff wize (newest SM codex) the relictors are being watched carefully by the inquisition, but have yet to be "fully sanctioned". Where has it been suggested they were purged? I'm curious.

Fluff from about five years ago, I think? It was around the EoT campaign, IIRC.

Mannimarco
09-04-2009, 15:52
true, either that or it was in the index astartes relictors article, there was a short story about them fighting with the GKs in the corridors of their ramilles fort

a small amount of them escaped the blockade

Lord Damocles
09-04-2009, 16:02
Where has it been suggested they were purged? I'm curious.
-More rustling sounds-

'Extremis Diabolus' in White Dwarf 289.

Inquisitor Cyarro leads Grey Knights in an assault on the Relictors' Ramilles-Star-Fort-come-Chapter-Fortress


Cyarro watched as the fleet he had assembled at Belis Corona hammered the dying remains of the Relictors' fortress-monastary with concentrated fire from their gun batteries. A Ramilles starfort was a massive edifice and took time to fully destroy, but they would leave only when no stone was left upon another and every trace of the Relictors was reduced to dust.

Some got away though (ooh, that was lucky wasn't it)

'Some of their ships managed to fight their way past our picket line', said the Grey Knight Captain. 'The starfort is no more, Inquisitor, we must give chase to those who escaped its destruction before we lose them in the Eye'

Mannimarco
09-04-2009, 16:08
the relictors are headed for the eye? does this mean they will now become fully fledged chaos marines? or are they more likely to do a soul drinkers type thing?

Lord Damocles
09-04-2009, 16:17
They were still effectively loyalist Marines (although with horribly broken deamonic gubbins) last we heard of them, and the current codex (somewhat randomly) has them as still being loyalist.

I wouldn't put some more 'in depth' research into Chaos past them though now that they don't have anyone to answer to...

Mannimarco
09-04-2009, 16:26
good stuff, is it all possible i would be able to use them as an allied contingent to my sons of malice or am i way off?

we all know the sons of malice were a nod to the fans of malal who is the chaos god of anti chaos or somthing so its possible they could ally or is it completely different? after all the sons of malice cant have massive amounts of troops left with all the fighting they do with the CSM so would probably welcome some allies, even if the do want the spoils after any battles

borithan
10-04-2009, 08:14
EDIT: But don't worry! Codex SurfLoveIn Space Marines seems to have retconned the Relictors being beat down:I thought that had more to do with most of the background stuff now being written just up to the eve of the Eye of Terror campaign, and it was only during that campaign they were actually excommunicated?

Thylacine
10-04-2009, 09:08
Relictors have a mention in the latest rule book, just the image of their chapter colours but that enough. They are headed into the EoT? I missed that. What would they do there, probably hook up with the Space Wolves 13th coy and fight the good fight.

A lot of gamers built up Relictors lists only to have them made unplayable with the introduction of the new Chaos codex and much of the wargear no long exists.

Bummer.

Frontier
10-04-2009, 16:18
ahhh the Inquisition. The only thing I cannot stand about the 40K universe.

sydbridges
10-04-2009, 16:40
A lot of gamers built up Relictors lists any sort of non-basic codex army list only to have them made unplayable with the introduction of the new Chaos codex 4th Ed and later codices and much of the wargear no longer exists.

Bummer.

Fixed for you.

LonelyPath
12-04-2009, 22:38
ahhh the Inquisition. The only thing I cannot stand about the 40K universe.

There's a heretic among us!!!

Okay, which faction of the Inquisition will be coming for you a wonder? DH or WH? Unless of course you've got green skin or pointy ears (or maybe both...)

lol

You're not alone though, there are a good few out there that think the Inquisition is a little off the theme of the game. However, given that the Imperium is based on a religious standing, I feel the Inquisition does fit in their dogma.

I quite like the fluff for the Relictors and been tempted to collect a army. But if I did that I'll be collecting armies I want to collect now when 8th edition appears, hahaha.

Chairman_woo
12-04-2009, 23:52
ahhh the Inquisition. The only thing I cannot stand about the 40K universe.

Really? if I was going to pick one single defining element of the imperium (and by proxy the human race) it would be the inquisition. I find it hard to see how you can have a problem with the inquisition and not pretty much the whole of 40k fluff as well. Certainly almost everything to do with the imperium seems unerpinned by the kind of religeous zeal and infighting the inquisition embodies, it seems like it would be a totally different imperium if it wernt for the inquisition or something very simmilar.

Would you prefer imperial justice/repression were less centralised or something? Dislike the pomp and circumstance that goes with i.e. you dislike what the inquisition is rather than what it represents (I have to assume you like the whole arcane/fantasy/sci-fi thing or you wouldent be singleing out one specific thing).

RichBlake
13-04-2009, 00:18
You're not alone though, there are a good few out there that think the Inquisition is a little off the theme of the game. However, given that the Imperium is based on a religious standing, I feel the Inquisition does fit in their dogma.



Those good few people are wrong :p

If anything emobdies the wacky mixture of technology and religion in the Imperium it's in the Inquisition and it's Henchmen. Also practically every good series of novels has Inquisitors pop in to say "HAI GUYS" every now and again, you know why? Inquisitors kick ass!




Would you prefer imperial justice/repression were less centralised or something? Dislike the pomp and circumstance that goes with i.e. you dislike what the inquisition is rather than what it represents (I have to assume you like the whole arcane/fantasy/sci-fi thing or you wouldent be singleing out one specific thing).

Say what? The Inquisition couldn't be more decenteralised if it tried! The only "centeraised" repression/justice organisations are the Arbites and the Commissariat.

LonelyPath
13-04-2009, 00:56
Those good few people are wrong :p

If anything emobdies the wacky mixture of technology and religion in the Imperium it's in the Inquisition and it's Henchmen. Also practically every good series of novels has Inquisitors pop in to say "HAI GUYS" every now and again, you know why? Inquisitors kick ass!

No need to convince me, the Inquisition convinced me in a rather nice way (requiring bionics after isn't the point, lol) that they're the best thing since sliced bread, then went on to convince me that sliced bread was an illusion created by Chaos and instructed me that there had always been the Inquiuition and that they were the best thing since ever, heh.

Needless to say, I'm a diehard DH fan ;)

Mewy
13-04-2009, 01:01
They're basically doing what renegade inquisitors do. They think it's all right and good, but the moment you try delve into mastering chaos, that's where you fail.

The Gauntlets of Ultramar and the Axe Morkai are supposed to have been sanctified by the respective chapters librarians/priests

victorpofa
15-04-2009, 01:47
I thought the Relictors were on a penance Crusade since EoT.