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sir_shvantselot
11-04-2009, 12:02
I bought and painted the little fellah below, only to be subjected to the most upsetting flak on the grounds that he is useless...

He cannot join units, is not very tough and in the only game I played with him got a bolt through the head in turn 2.

Any suggestions about making good use of him?

dijit80
11-04-2009, 12:50
hmmm, you might have to check the rules for this. But since he's a non-flying monsterous mount can't he join a units? See pages 58 and 72 battle of skull pass rulebook. So put him in a unit of trolls and watch the mayhem!

Braad
11-04-2009, 13:06
Indeed... I can't find a reason why he should not be able to join units.

Anyway, I think such a monster will find its most use in a more wooded or with other terrain covered setting, or for flanking purposes. I don't think its useless, but it seems to me a bit more care is needed in fielding them, as they are indeed no point&click killer models.

I don't really understand that this creature doesn't have fear, though...

rtunian
11-04-2009, 13:18
at least, there should be some race that has "fears spiders" hehe

sir_shvantselot
11-04-2009, 13:59
ah yes, p58 of main rulebook says "monsters can never join other models to form a unit, except when they are ridden by a character" and p72 says "characters mounted on flying creatures cannot units" ...silent about monsters that cannot fly.

Urgat
11-04-2009, 13:59
hmmm, you might have to check the rules for this. But since he's a non-flying monsterous mount can't he join a units? See pages 58 and 72 battle of skull pass rulebook. So put him in a unit of trolls and watch the mayhem!

Well, trolls hit harder, and the spider loses its movement bonuses. That's very counterproductive to put a gigantic spider in a unit of trolls, imho.
I for one believe it's pretty useless, really, but not as much as the cave squig, at least.

bob_the_small
11-04-2009, 14:24
Just put him in a unit of 9 spider riders and watch em go!

dijit80
11-04-2009, 15:02
If the rule that if you only took goblin characters you could take an extra for each 1000pts was still in effect then you could easily get away with having a spiderriding hero that could cause all sorts of fun and games without the risk of your goblins running away.

selone
11-04-2009, 16:18
I can't see the point in this sadly. He doesn't cause fear so is very vunerable to psychology on his Ld 7, if you use him on his own he's very vunerable to attack though he can move through terrain to cover him. If you do stick him in a unit he's going to likely lose the benefit of his wall crawler rule unless you stick with spider riders which is pretty whacky, would they keep fast cavalry then?
I actually like the cave squig more as it's ItP and can charge 360o, however its a nice model you've got there and well painted. Give it a go, once or twice.

Braad
11-04-2009, 16:27
Well... if you read the rules for the great cave squig on page 50 and 58, you'll find that it's actually not ItP at all.
A bad thing, if you ask me, and we play it as if he is, bit stil...

For both the squig and spider goes: they are cool models, so nothing is going to stop me from using them!
And the squig can actually be quite funny. I'm not sure about the spider yet, currently in the process of getting two (one converted scorpion for a common gobbo).

Time of Madness
11-04-2009, 16:31
The giant spider character is great in a unit of night goblins with nets. The nets make the character really hard to kill. Add the armour of Gork and some other items for a great general.
Time of Madness

Txan
11-04-2009, 16:57
Or, make him scout... err wait ur to big... :(

selone
11-04-2009, 19:12
Well... if you read the rules for the great cave squig on page 50 and 58, you'll find that it's actually not ItP at all.
A bad thing, if you ask me, and we play it as if he is, bit stil...

For both the squig and spider goes: they are cool models, so nothing is going to stop me from using them!
And the squig can actually be quite funny. I'm not sure about the spider yet, currently in the process of getting two (one converted scorpion for a common gobbo).

I'd never rely on a summary over the actual description which on page 26 suggests it is ItP. I think you'd have to be a certain type of person to argue it otherwise, mind it's worth checking into just in case :)
If it got ruled not itP it would drastically reduce its worth.

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Time of madness I don't think a goblin general could ever be described as great :D but that's a funny idea.

Braad
11-04-2009, 21:57
Well, thing is... you got 3 sources. 1 suggests you do have it, 2 don't say you have it... Personally the unit entries in the armylist are my number 1 source, as they have a list of every specific model.

For example, in the bit for spiders on page 29, it says "fast cavalry" as a general rule. But this fast cav rule also doesn't come back on page 50, in the mounts section for the gigantic spider, but it is included on page 53: spider riders.

But as I said, I play it as ItP, as it is just silly that it wouldn't be so...

zoggin-eck
11-04-2009, 22:57
Nothing wrong with a gigantic (Note, not gian spider :)) spider, I've been running one since 4th edition (glad I can use him again after 6th ed!)


in the only game I played with him got a bolt through the head in turn 2.


This could happen to just about any character of any army, that's partly what bolt throwers are for, doesn't make this character useless.

Stick him in a unit of spider riders, look after some trolls, go lone wizard/war machine hunting. In fact, the bolt thrower you mentioned is probably the best thing to take out with a mobile character like this!

Storak
12-04-2009, 08:57
well, completely useless, unless you are playing siege games.

GW forgot to add the fear rule to the spider and squig, and while they keep Q&As on all sort of stupid stuff, they failed to fix this so far.

i don t know when i last used my gigantic spider.

50 points and causing terror would be a good change, and it might occasionally get used. being ridden by a gobbo only is a DISADVANTAGE, that needs to be factored into the price of a mount.

Dead Man Walking
12-04-2009, 16:34
I used that bugger very well in smaller games.

In 500 point games he was the general and would sit 3 inches inside of woods and then waagh his unit out into the flank of my opponent. My opponent would usually think they were safe because I was too far in woods to declare a charge.
I used this most effectively against a unit of brit special knights. I Waagh'd into his flank and used the magic blade that gives an additional -3 to armorsave modifier (str 4 so -4) and he could only claim a 6 ward save, I rolled that unit and over ran into another unit of heavy calv and then it was game over.

In another 1500 pnt game I used him on a flank and barreled through woods (my opponent miscast and allowed me to cast the Big Waaagh before I even got my first turn) and this little sucker carved up an empire 20 man unit and its detachements.

Is he useful? Yes, but you have to make sure to use him intellilgently, that means you dont shoot him into elite units with killy heroes. He makes tough 3 heavy calv easy to beat as long as you do the charging and dont forget that the spider has a really high leadership, much better than the rider! You use the highest leadership in the unit right? :skull: