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View Full Version : Thoughts on ' Nid-Zilla ' armies?



hendybadger
12-04-2009, 00:06
i have 2 tyranid armies at the moment.
1 close combat nid-zilla
1 ranged nidzilla
both with 3 units of stealers for troops.

my reasoning isnt for power gaming or winning or anything like that.
i just love converting MC's and i dont like the gaunt models

would you play against these armies?
would you refuse?
and what are your general thoughts on these styles?

zetaplus
12-04-2009, 02:24
I would, I have 6 fexes and 2 tyrants in my nid army (lol). I just have a thing for giant beasts, then again if my opponent is going to cry over it, i also have 16 stealers, 32 gaunts, 6 warriors, a zoanthrope and some other bits and bobs. I would definitely play you!

Vepr
12-04-2009, 02:32
I play nids and marines and I have no trouble playing against someone that runs nidzilla Personally I do not run a nidzilla list and generally only run 2 fexes plus my tyrant sometimes I toss in another fex if I expect to face a lot of armor. I have no trouble playing against nidzilla lists although I can see why people complain because it is not much fun facing so many MC's.

I run gaunts and warriors for fun even though I know the points would be better spent on MC's in terms of a competitive list goes. I enjoy the swarm aspect of nids more but that is more about personal choice. If I played in tournaments with my favored list I would get smoked on a regular basis. :cries: :p

If nidzilla is what you enjoy go with it, after all enjoying yourself is what a hobby like this is all about. :)

SirSnipes
12-04-2009, 02:36
my orks will take yeh on

10 nob bikers
2 warboss on bikes
wazdakka(ork version of DN on bike)
zogwart(ork joker)
72 boyzin trukks
10 meganobs
15lootas
3 battlewagons
36 bikers

im sure i canfind a way to have fun against nidzilla( actually to me they are the single most funa rmy for me to play, i love the challenge)

Hicks
12-04-2009, 02:43
I wouldn't mind it at all. 5th ed. took away any chance of a cover save for MCs and since their weapons have a pretty poor range, they'll pretty much have to spend the game getting shot at by the enemies AT weapons.

Some armies will struggle against it like necrons who don't have much AP2 weapons, but pretty much any army has it's counter. IG and Tau just curl up and die when faced with a SM drop pod army, SM vs DE is like watching a grown man beat up a baby and so on.

Now add the fact that nids troops are terrible at capturing objectives and I don't see why a nidzilla list would be considered overpowered.

Orcboy_Phil
12-04-2009, 03:45
I've been experimenting with a Nidzilla army for a couple of weeks, and I have to say I'm not really finding them that good. There slow and pretty pathetic in combat (Two shovel tuskers and a Screamerakilla). The venom spitters pretty much usless now it can't tanks.My Dakkafexes (2x Twinlinked Devourers and enhanced sences) on the other hand continue to shine the others might as well stay at home.

Calibrate
12-04-2009, 08:30
I dunno.. I've never run a nidzilla - doesn't appeal to me.

I'm pretty content with maxing out the troops slots and taking a brood lord w/ ret..

My basic 1200 pt list includes: 6 warriors (cc and ranged), brood lord w/ retinue (tendrils), 2 units of steelers, 18 flesh gaunts, 8 dev. gaunts, 12 hormie's, 3 ravanours and a shovle tusker.

I LOVE this list.

My opponents either kill my fex with a round of shooting or ignore him and try to kill every thing else. Either way, something dangerous ends up in combat by the second turn.

Shadowfax
12-04-2009, 10:21
I wouldn't mind it at all. 5th ed. took away any chance of a cover save for MCs
You must play with an unfortunate lack of interesting terrain. There's plenty of stuff out there that will afford 50% coverage to a Carnifex, if not a Tyrant.

Nidzilla can be powerful against certain types of opposition, but I find it boring to play most of the time. Nids are most fun in larger points games where you can use 6+ big'uns and still have a lot of smaller tykes running around eating stuff.

It sounds like your army is already purchased, but anyone constructing a new nid army should be wary of the nidzilla build. There's a pretty good chance it will become obsolete, impractical, or impossible in the new codex.

hendybadger
12-04-2009, 11:29
i dont think they will get rid of it in the next dex.
especially after they pushed the fact that you can buy 6 fexes per army.
and in my veiw its no different to a SM army with 3 raiders and 3 dreads

incase people complain i also have a warrior sized force with raveners, thropes and such

Thud
12-04-2009, 11:49
I'd play you.

Of course, I have a Wraithzilla army, so I'd be a bit of a hypocrite if I refused, wouldn't I? ;)

Vampiric16
12-04-2009, 12:46
Its a legal army, so i would play you.
I always go with the swarm force. I use the elite slot so I can have a unit of zoans and vores as well as two carnifexes.

hendybadger
12-04-2009, 20:29
i think that either swarm or zilla is the players choice.
and in my situation the models decided for me

but why to people complain about zilla and not swarm?

Hicks
12-04-2009, 20:32
i think that either swarm or zilla is the players choice.
and in my situation the models decided for me

but why to people complain about zilla and not swarm?

Because a swarm army is now terrible thanks to 5th edition rules and to an extent codex creep.

Da Black Gobbo
12-04-2009, 21:56
I hate both nid lists (shooty-zilla and CC zilla) when i play with my daemons, there is no frikin' way i can win, i get shooted to bits and i cannot handle 6 carnifex and 2 hive tirants shooting, re-rolling to hit and re-rolling to wound when i just have a 5+ or in best cases 4+. Also Nid-zilla has no sense fluffwise, nids are suposed to be a horde army, not 8 big bugs with 18 little bugs running arround.

Orcboy_Phil
12-04-2009, 22:02
I hate both nid lists (shooty-zilla and CC zilla) when i play with my daemons, there is no frikin' way i can win, i get shooted to bits and i cannot handle 6 carnifex and 2 hive tirants shooting, re-rolling to hit and re-rolling to wound when i just have a 5+ or in best cases 4+. Also Nid-zilla has no sense fluffwise, nids are suposed to be a horde army, not 8 big bugs with 18 little bugs running arround.

You've not been reading your apcolypse book have you. A classic nidzilla is Fexes and Rippers. Stage 4 of a Nid invasion is the big things (fexes and the other larger creatures) followed up by the Rippers. It all makes sence from a fluff perspective :D

Victomorga
12-04-2009, 22:18
Because a swarm army is now terrible thanks to 5th edition rules and to an extent codex creep.

why do you say that? nids have lots of troop types to make huge scoring units with.


I hate both nid lists (shooty-zilla and CC zilla) when i play with my daemons, there is no frikin' way i can win, i get shooted to bits and i cannot handle 6 carnifex and 2 hive tirants shooting, re-rolling to hit and re-rolling to wound when i just have a 5+ or in best cases 4+. Also Nid-zilla has no sense fluffwise, nids are suposed to be a horde army, not 8 big bugs with 18 little bugs running arround.

seems you don't hate them so much as you hate losing to them repeatedly.

Nid-zilla makes sense fluff wise, why wouldn't it? even if you think so many monstrous creatures would never be deployed in such a small cluster (which I disagree with), you have to keep in mind a standard game of 40k, even an apoc game, only depicts a small section of a presumably enormous battle. five in-game miles in every direction of your table-top could be carpeted with hordes of gaunts, gants, stealers, etc. your boys just happen to be running head on into a cluster of giant monsters.

Da Black Gobbo
12-04-2009, 22:33
why do you say that? nids have lots of troop types to make huge scoring units with.



seems you don't hate them so much as you hate losing to them repeatedly.

Nid-zilla makes sense fluff wise, why wouldn't it? even if you think so many monstrous creatures would never be deployed in such a small cluster (which I disagree with), you have to keep in mind a standard game of 40k, even an apoc game, only depicts a small section of a presumably enormous battle. five in-game miles in every direction of your table-top could be carpeted with hordes of gaunts, gants, stealers, etc. your boys just happen to be running head on into a cluster of giant monsters.

8 Creatures inmune to insta-death in a game where there is no weapon that causes multi-wounds (well nids have some sort of mutation that makes every wound become 2, don't remember the name) with 4-5 wounds each and a possible 2+ save plus T6 and the possibility of taking weapons that shot 12-8 times with decent high st 5-8 and reroll everything is quite cheese in my humble opinion. The main problem is that there is no multi wound weapon and they are inmune to insta death, so my IG have to shoot 10 times with a las cannon in order to kill only ONE carnifex, and you have another 5 'fexes that everytime they shoot kill about (assuming TL devourer) 6-7 guards. Why on earth a direct hit from a bassie only makes 1 wound to a MC?? is ridiculous.


The same for my demons, 12 shots from a dakka tyrant is a guaranted death for a unit of lesser daemons (exept plague bearers if the weapon is ST 7 or less) and a real pain for my KoS or LoC who will loose 3 and 2 wounds each.

VorpalDoom
12-04-2009, 22:37
I find nid'zilla armies, or any army with multiple MCs to be a BLAST to play against! I run SW, with massive amounts of PFs and PWs.

Every game I have played against piles of MCs have been fun, and fast.

Might only be because a squad of blood claws would rip a 'fex apart, still fun either way.

zeep
12-04-2009, 22:55
8 Creatures inmune to insta-death in a game where there is no weapon that causes multi-wounds (well nids have some sort of mutation that makes every wound become 2, don't remember the name) with 4-5 wounds each and a possible 2+ save plus T6 and the possibility of taking weapons that shot 12-8 times with decent high st 5-8 and reroll everything is quite cheese in my humble opinion. The main problem is that there is no multi wound weapon and they are inmune to insta death, so my IG have to shoot 10 times with a las cannon in order to kill only ONE carnifex, and you have another 5 'fexes that everytime they shoot kill about (assuming TL devourer) 6-7 guards. Why on earth a direct hit from a bassie only makes 1 wound to a MC?? is ridiculous.


The same for my demons, 12 shots from a dakka tyrant is a guaranted death for a unit of lesser daemons (exept plague bearers if the weapon is ST 7 or less) and a real pain for my KoS or LoC who will loose 3 and 2 wounds each.

But it is of course, comletely uncheesy for you to poor out 3+ pie plates of death destroying any scoring units the nids have, tank shock the mc's off of the objectives that they were trying to contest, and focus fire into the tyrants (who die to las rifles) so that on the chance they did have a brood of guants left, they cant actually claim an objective. I just cant get much sympathy worked up for you. :rolleyes:

The_Outsider
12-04-2009, 23:08
Nidzilla is alright - for all it's power it is still a fatally flawed list.

Also never take on a DE army with nidzilla - you will be the one who gets it.

hendybadger
12-04-2009, 23:10
itsm nice to see the different veiws on this subject.

the weapons on fexes arnt as good as you say. either that or my dice are cursed!
and i play against daemons alot. the games are always very close and very fun.

Da Black Gobbo
12-04-2009, 23:15
But it is of course, comletely uncheesy for you to poor out 3+ pie plates of death destroying any scoring units the nids have, tank shock the mc's off of the objectives that they were trying to contest, and focus fire into the tyrants (who die to las rifles) so that on the chance they did have a brood of guants left, they cant actually claim an objective. I just cant get much sympathy worked up for you. :rolleyes:

Is fun, all the nid zilla players i know say the same, and also is fun that in a 18 people tournament with 3 'nidzilla players the 1st 2nd and 3rd where guess who? 'nid players, if they are in the tourney they win it, and maybe i could be a real bad player, but 15 players with different armies and no one able to defeat 'nids? i think 8 MC in a 1500 points game is a bit OP, in a 2k game is different everybody has more points for good and shiny stuff but nids only have points for gaunts or stealers (who die horribly easy to be honest).


itsm nice to see the different veiws on this subject.

the weapons on fexes arnt as good as you say. either that or my dice are cursed!
and i play against daemons alot. the games are always very close and very fun.

I'm not saying i don't have fun playing against nids, all the players are pretty good people but i think is not fair having the chance of getting 8 MC in a 1,5k battle, my closest chance to win against 'nids was in a tourney where we had a draw, but we rolled for another turn and a 6 appeared and i lost :cries:. Is the only army i cannot beat with my daemons, i've played against every army from TAU to Orks and loose/draw/win against many armies (my battle record is just tourney battles) I just can't against MC heavy nids, and in my playing cyrcle i'm not the only one.

Legionary
13-04-2009, 02:12
Err, if I had the choice I wouldn't play against Nidzilla, no. I'm either almost certain to win (by loading up on AT weapons) or almost certain to lose (by not loading up on AT weapons) - neither of which make for a fun game.

To be fair, I'd probably play you once or twice if you used Nidzilla, but it's sort of a boring army to face in my view.

Capt_Jman
13-04-2009, 02:23
Massed orks would be fun. I have done it one time, but I had to use the boyz to soak up blows while the PKs did the real damage. you may be insta-killing 3 boyz a turn, but its still only 3 boyz a turn. (for a shootie fex)

Or with my tau, I stand a gun line and send everything fast enough to slow them down. I would love to play them more often, but most of the time I play massed gaunts.

Thud
13-04-2009, 02:26
Nidzilla is alright - for all it's power it is still a fatally flawed list.

Also never take on a DE army with nidzilla - you will be the one who gets it.

And by 'it' you mean a thousand dark lances in the face, yeah? :p

The_Outsider
13-04-2009, 02:59
And by 'it' you mean a thousand dark lances in the face, yeah? :p

Ironically the lances are the least of a nidzilla's problems - it is the agonsiers they need to watch out for since there is no way to protect your MC's once they are in CC.

Vepr
13-04-2009, 03:07
If you are going to play in tournies from my observations from attending but not playing in them if you want to win you pretty much have to go nidzilla. I think they might be a touch abusive in friendly games if that is all you ever use but to each their own. If we had T5 warriors and maybe some troop choices that were not absolutely terrible at holding objectives people would play less nidzilla. I love playing my horde nids but they just are not very effective right now especially when compared to horde orks. If the rumors hold true horde guard are about to make horde nids look even more like horse droppings. :cries: :p

Hicks
13-04-2009, 03:08
why do you say that? nids have lots of troop types to make huge scoring units with.

Well nids have 3 choices of scoring units;

Hormagaunts: They have no shooting, they cost tons of points, they are marginally better than a guardsmen in CC, if you upgrade them their cost is almost near that of genestealers and to be scoring they nid a synapse babysitter.

Gaunts: Much better than the above, but they still need a babysitter and they are terribly fragile.

Genestealers: I have nothing bad to say about these wonderfull beasties... but it's a real waste to have them sitting on an objective and they are expensive, so not really fit to make huge units.

In my experience, horde nids die in droves on their way to CC, they get absolutely creamed in CC and they can't hold an objective to save their life.

Thud
13-04-2009, 03:11
Ironically the lances are the least of a nidzilla's problems - it is the agonsiers they need to watch out for since there is no way to protect your MC's once they are in CC.

I didn't even think of that... There's only one DE player around here and he has about 14-15 dark lances and 9 disintegrators, but only three agonizers. But yeah, when Carnifexes start going down to min-sized Reaver squads you just know you picked the wrong army to go up against. :p

In the same vein, with my Wraithzilla list, Nidzilla would actually be my most beneficial match-up.

Vepr
13-04-2009, 03:15
Well nids have 3 choices of scoring units;

Hormagaunts: They have no shooting, they cost tons of points, they are marginally better than a guardsmen in CC, if you upgrade them their cost is almost near that of genestealers and to be scoring they nid a synapse babysitter.

Gaunts: Much better than the above, but they still need a babysitter and they are terribly fragile.

Genestealers: I have nothing bad to say about these wonderfull beasties... but it's a real waste to have them sitting on an objective and they are expensive, so not really fit to make huge units.

In my experience, horde nids die in droves on their way to CC, they get absolutely creamed in CC and they can't hold an objective to save their life.

Yeah it is pretty brutal. I love Hormagaunts and I have 40 I run sometimes just for fun. Even with a screen and they new cover saves they get butchered when they get across the field and when they do reach CC they do not do much but hold units for a round or two before being completely crushed due to the new rules. It is particularly painful running them into a group of boyz who cost nearly half as much and absolutely spank them.

Huge groups of guants would not be so bad for holding objectives if it was not for synapse. Smart players do not even go after them and just do away with the synapse. Also I have found "without number" to be "without use" in most cases. I wish the individual models came on the board as they died and made a B line for their squad instead of coming on all at once again when the squad was killed off. Often it is not in time for them to do anything once they do come back on of if they get to come back on at all as players learn to blast them down to just a handful and then ignore them until doing away with them in the final turn.

Vepr
13-04-2009, 03:20
I didn't even think of that... There's only one DE player around here and he has about 14-15 dark lances and 9 disintegrators, but only three agonizers. But yeah, when Carnifexes start going down to min-sized Reaver squads you just know you picked the wrong army to go up against. :p

In the same vein, with my Wraithzilla list, Nidzilla would actually be my most beneficial match-up.

I have only played against DE twice and I could see where they would ruin nidzilla. I had decent luck against them in one of the two games due to two five man squads of warriors dropping death spitter templates and my Hormagaunts actually doing something for once. They seem to like CC with IG, Tau, and DE and that is about it. :D The other game he had good luck against all my synapse which proved problematic as always.

FunkyRatDemon
13-04-2009, 03:29
Of late I've found Deamon-zilla more difficult to beat (2 Bloodthirsters, 3 Deamon Princes w/ MoN + Wings) since usually u deal with 3 monstrous creatures on you T1! (within charge range usually)

I run a Tyranid force (1850) that runs only 2 Dakkafexes, always wanted to run a Nid-Zilla force but never the desire to purchase it.
5th Ed makes Screamer-fexes much better, and since cover is hard to attain and more armies gaining access to Ap1/Ap2 weaponry I see little issues with the army in its current form

stevester79
13-04-2009, 11:46
I have a friend that plays the nidzilla thing. never beat him. It's a tough list for me to beat. but then again I never win much anyway. hopefull the new IG codex will help. I've seen balanced or swarm list and I dont' see them doing as well as I see that MC list do. They need a new codex. I'm not for getting rid of the elite carnie's but they need to lower the cost of there small units. how the hell do you call maxing out a ripper swarm at 3 bases a swarm. how do you swarm with hormie's at 10 points a piece. and I hardly ever see zoanthropes hit anything. God don't get me started with how great biovore's are worth the Heavy slot. with 5th edition I dont think bare genesteelers are NOT worth 16 points a piece since they can't consolodate into other units anymore and they die pretty easy when shot and can't swarm with only a 12 limit to a brood. no wonder they run that MC list it's the only thing that can run acroos the board like there supposed to and take some punisment. Fellow guard players I understand your pain but I think are problem is are codex and not nids. I've seen tau, space marines, orks, and even a deamons beat nidzilla. We got some new stuff coming with real fast attack choices, are tanks will have more punch(check out the exicutioner and lumbering behemoth), and orders to help out our ifantry against MC's and tanks. If this new stuff doesn't work then I think we can cry fowl about it. but I think were gonna be ok.

Frostea
13-04-2009, 13:08
Nidzillas are terribly easy to defeat as long as you have AP3/2/1 weapons aplenty. In any other cases, cross your fingers and hope you have enough guns or men to survive them.

The_Outsider
13-04-2009, 14:31
I didn't even think of that...(post)


I have only played against DE twice...(rest of post)

So far my record stands at 3 carnifexes dead in a single turn from full strength - my archon ripped one in half, my wyches ripped another after it had absorbed a bit of lance fire and I melted the 3rd with a dark lance battery.

Shame this was only turn 2.

hendybadger
13-04-2009, 18:06
it seems like the Nid-Zilla list isnt that bad.
its just that some people have bad experinces with them then never want to play again.
and those people spread the word of hate!

would you play if the only reason of having a nid-zilla list was for the massive conversion and model potential?

Marshal Sinclair
13-04-2009, 18:43
I run a Nid'zilla list, and the easiest way to beat it is to kill my scoring units. You only need to claim a single objective then and you win. Nid'Zilla is great at forcing a draw, not so great at winning.

JonnyX
13-04-2009, 22:01
Well, ive only ever played against a couple of nidzilla armies with my raven guard but was scared the first time i plaayed them but the fact that i could jump and fleet over them and into the fleshy troops (compared to MCs) behind and then try to kill the MCs for the fun of it.

Of course flying hive tyrants are a problem and imho the only problem i have encountered purely bcause the are the only unit that can choose what to charge rather than be charged by a unit that could tear it to shreds or keep it held up for the game, but this was solved by a couple of whacks round the head by thunder hammers after the tyrant went through a couple of scouts however (1 squad of scouts did not want to die that easily)

So overall the nidzilla army looks good on paper but when it comes to playing people usually just go around the stuff you want in combat and go for the easy killpoints / objectives.

infernus31
13-04-2009, 22:21
I play a Nidzilla army and obviously wouldnt mind playing against a fellow nid player. From my experience Nidzilla can cause certain people to get annoyed as it is a competitive army and somoetimes might be unsuitable for certain games.

Its certainly not as Op as it was in 4th ed (sadly :p) Carnifexes and Hive Tyrants arent troops or scoring. its the fairly fragile troop section, either synapse reliant gaunts or expensive stealers.