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Raibaru
12-04-2009, 20:14
I don't have the luxury of having all the most recent codex to compare rules, but not really after that either.

I'm just curious what people's opinion is on which army has the best non-special character pyskers? Could be purely offensive, purely defensive, like them because they're more reliable, they're cheap and plentiful etc etc.

I'm just trying to jump back into 40k and want to see what others think of psyker based armies, or just psyker lead armies (ie. Librarians vs Ulthwe vs Iyanden vs Tzeentch etc etc).

Try not to make this a lore discussion though.

toxic_wisdom
12-04-2009, 20:43
A winged Daemon Prince with Mark of Tzeentch and enhanced with Wind of Chaos + Warptime is one of the better Psychers in the game. Elsewise imho based on overall application...

01. Daemon Prince Psychers
02. Aspiring Sorcerers
03. Librarians
04. Chaos Sorcerers
05. Farseers
06. Everything Else

07. Not much experience with psychers in Codex: Daemons so I'll have to keep them out for now.

Thud
12-04-2009, 20:45
Eldar Seer Council on jetbikes. Winbutton.

SirSnipes
12-04-2009, 20:48
fateweaver

MrGiggles
12-04-2009, 20:55
In terms of sheer efficiency, I'd go with the Farseers. Their powers aren't flashy, but things like Guide, Fortune and Doom really amplify the strengths of an Eldar army.

In terms of flashy and cool abilities though, I think the Librarian gets it for me at least, lots of mental blasts, teleporting and the like. The various Chaos abilities come very close though.

For entertainment purposes, the Wierdboy takes it. Gotta love it when your psyker occasionally blows it and detonates their own skull.

SirSnipes
12-04-2009, 20:59
weirdboy=funnest
fateweaver= easily most powerful(psycher like)

toxic_wisdom
12-04-2009, 21:06
Isn't Fateweaver a Special Character though ? As such the OP wasn't counting SCs in the discussion...

Reinnon
12-04-2009, 21:09
Lord of changes comes pretty close on the best psyker list, simply because its immune to psyker defensive items.

zendral
12-04-2009, 21:10
If were talking tabletop psykers and not the fluff, then I wouldn't count fateweaver as a "psyker". Seeing as none of his abilities require a test nor do they even count as psychic powers. There just shooting abilities.

Meriwether
12-04-2009, 21:10
Right... Because if he was talking special characters, Eldrad wins, hands-down. (Of course people will disagree with me, but that's ok. They're entitled to be wrong. :evilgrin:)

My opinion is that eldar farseers (properly equipped) are the best, especially in a seer council (look! More psykers!)

Meri

invinciblebug
12-04-2009, 21:12
Masses of IG psykers, everything counts in large amounts :evilgrin:.

Raibaru
12-04-2009, 21:23
Yea, I wanted to avoid special characters just because this would turn into a debate with no end in site.

I'm planning a thousand sons army (tzeentch at a minimum) and just wanted to see what other kind of armies "felt" the same. Iyanden is along the same lines, but last I saw, Eldar powers were mostly supportive in nature.

Don't have their new book though. Never used Eldritch Storm or Doom, and last I played Eldar was in 2nd edition. And that's when I had just started playing 40k. Once 3rd came I switched to DE with no psykers.

Main reason is I want to play a fun psyker army, and I just broke open my box of Sons and I want to kill myself thinking I have 30+ of these guys to make.

Meriwether
12-04-2009, 21:37
Eldar powers are still very supportive in nature (even Doom does no damage by itself), but they are IMO the best powers in the game.

If you want flashy, go with marine librarians or chaos.

Meri

Wapniak
12-04-2009, 22:04
I would put my money on Slaaneshi Daemon Prince with Lash of Submission in ANY brawl with ANY of those mentioned psykers. He is the "strongest" with S6! ;)And literally owns in melee. :D Not to mention that the Lash is kind of 'Broken'.:angel:

Meriwether
12-04-2009, 22:10
A seer council will destroy him in melee. He wounds them on 2s, but they will be getting 4+ re-rollable invulnurable saves. They wound him on 2s, and he only gets his normal save. And there are a lot more of them than there are of him!

Meri

The_Outsider
12-04-2009, 22:16
The seer council is - and has been for 3 editions now - the best load of psykers in the game.

CordovaLemonSlayer
12-04-2009, 22:24
According to the main W40K fluff, the strongest psykers are called "Alpha-Level Psykers" here's the description taken directly from the Rule Book

"Perhaps the most dangerous human in the galaxy is an untrained psyker. If they are not controlled or purged, the erratic and awesome forces they can unwittingly unleash may destroy whole settlements or even worlds. Those cursed with an incredible level of psychic talent are codified by the black ships of the inquisition as Alpha-Level - The highest category a human psyker can reach. Alpha-Level Psykers can turn a man inside out with a glance. A mere flick of a wrist can snap a Battle Titan in two, or a muttered syllable turn an army upon itself in a frenzy of bloodlust. With such god-like power at their disposal, it is a small wonder that the Alpha-Level psykers are amongst they most dreaded foes that the Ordo Hereticus of the Inquisition must face."

Cain The Good
12-04-2009, 22:50
:):):):);)
Hi, I'm Cain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The strongest psyker in my experience as far as offensive power is concerned is an Ork Warboss with a power klaw but for defensive power I personally favour an Ork Battlewagon with a Deffrolla and Grabbin Klaw. I hope this answers your question.
CAIN!!!

Marneus Calgar
12-04-2009, 23:01
Eldar psykers. With runes of witnessing (I believe that is what it is called) all other psykers blow up in their presence.

toxic_wisdom
12-04-2009, 23:21
I would put my money on Slaaneshi Daemon Prince with Lash of Submission in ANY brawl with ANY of those mentioned psykers. He is the "strongest" with S6! ;)And literally owns in melee. :D Not to mention that the Lash is kind of 'Broken'.:angel:

A Slaanesh DP take down a Tzeentch DP ? What ?

RichBlake
12-04-2009, 23:43
Dunno in terms of game abilities then the new IG Battle Squad is prett awesome. One psychic test and you can reduce an enemy's leadership to 2... combine that with lots of shooting and thats going to kick people's ass.

Mewy
13-04-2009, 01:19
1/Eldrad Ulthuan is the best for support. And the most resistant to harm from both the enemy and perils. Redeploying most of your army 2/3 of the times is huge in 5th ed too.
2/Fateweaver can use 3 powers in one turn against different targets so is the best offensive psyker, (even though they aren't "psykic" powers in the traditional sense) re-rollable 3+inv but runs away on a Ld test for each wound he takes.
3/Ahriman comes next with 3 psychic powers of which can be warp time, doom bolt, and force weapon.

Those are the best independant characters. For just codex choices we have...
1/Eldar - extreme support. In an army of specialists, clever use of a farseer is VERY deadly. Ghosthelm protects against perils and runes of warding against enemy psykers with them taking all tests on 3d6.
2/Chaos Marines - Mark of Tzeentch sorcerers and champions (in rubric squads) get 2 powers per turn. Given your choice of the best offensive shooting and close combat abilities in the game, they can turn very deadly. And then we have lash of submission for support, with 2 in the army breaking gameplay against inexperience.
3/Demons - in fluff they are psykers, but in game terms, their abilities just go off, no test, nothing. Their abilities can't be resisted. And they are very strong offensive abilities, it's the only shooting they have though, so they need it.
4/Space Marines - Redeployment of a squad via deep strike (near locator beacon), psychic hood, smite, vortex of doom are all good. You get 2 powers per 100point librarian and you can use both in the same turn for another 50 points. A 150 point dude for some awesome support which can 2/3 of the time hit your opponents Acilies heel. It's just a shame about only 2W and no inv save unless you waste a power on getting one.
5/Dark Angels - Mind worm, take a Ld test, or you are removed from the board. One good power, against any model in their army. Fearless does nothing.
6/Tyranids - nothing special here. 6+ inv... who needs it when you're T6/2+arm with 10W anyway. Warp blast is the only predictable anti-tank shot in the army. Venom cannon can only ever cause glancing hits, but we do have catalyst, the horror and shadow in the warp. So bugs always hit you, you need a ld test before charging and your psykers take 3d6 pick the 2 highest.
7/Orks - Special character can turn any of your independant characters into a squig. Roll off - 50% chance.

We'll learn more when Codex: IG comes out. So far this is how I rate them, others will have different priorities when it coems to how they use these powers in the game.

Hellebore
13-04-2009, 01:23
Eldar powers are still very supportive in nature (even Doom does no damage by itself), but they are IMO the best powers in the game.

If you want flashy, go with marine librarians or chaos.

Meri

I think you might see a bit of a different setup if they actually made the offensive eldar powers worth taking. Instead of always knowing that the Farseer will have guide and doom, you may end up with eldritch stormers if it was a good shooting attack (say S5 AP4).

I'm tired of seeing Supportseers r Us, it would be nice to see some of the truly nasty battle seers they used to have. It would change the metagame somewhat too.

Hellebore

Bunnahabhain
13-04-2009, 11:24
In terms of efficiency, Farseers win hands down. Either Guide, doom, and hide, or speedy speedy Seer council both do very well indeed.
I agree with Hellbore, them having some decent direct offensive powers would be good. Both


Behind them, CSM lash princes ( I hate that power...), and standard marine Librarians, who have a decent mix of abilities.

I have a feeling the new Guard reducing Ld power could be widely hated, as there are all sorts of tricks that can be used on your now Ld 2 unit- pinning, callidus assissins, assorted other psychic powers, simple morale checks, the list will expand, espicially in situations with allies. Mindwar, anyone?
It will be mitigated somewhat by the fact the unit using it isn't a daemon prince, or on jetbike, so is easier to catch, and easier to kill...

RichBlake
13-04-2009, 13:59
While we are here actually Inquisitors have some of the best potnetial from psychic powers. Daemonhunters have one that uses a blast template at S5 in CC, Witchhunters have a psychic power that permenantly reduces a IC's leadership to 3 and another that automatically causes a morale check as if the squad had lost 25%, with a negative modifier by the difference between leadership characteristics (WH inquisitor + Divine Pronouncement + Psyker battle squad = win)

Grazzy
13-04-2009, 16:48
I would say eldar top, as rerollable saves on seer councils is horribly good. You will win combat by several points every round not because you do lots of damage but because you take lots of damage.

Dont forget several heavy flamer templates first too.


Lash of submissions for chaos has to come in second. Try taking 2 and you can do what you want with the enemies army.

Avaron
15-04-2009, 07:35
the guard powers are really nice the primis psyker can go offensive tossing off 2d6 ST 6 AP5 shots at 24 inches (beating the magic shooting of just about anyone) or ward his unit so opponents need to pass leadership to shoot him.

the battle squad can reduce a opponents leadership or drop a ordanance template up to 36 inches away with ST =to psykers in quad and ap = 1d6 so they are a magical leman russ.

Shadowfax
15-04-2009, 10:10
No love for the humble Hive Tyrant?

- flexible (close combat badass or decent shooter)
- mobile (w/wings)
- handy variety of psychic powers (great armour save/pithy invulnerable save, deadly anti-tank shot, anti-psycher power, morale sapping power)

Probably not the absolute best from either a rules/fluff standpoint, but still a very solid choice imo.

ehlijen
15-04-2009, 10:42
I'd say the zoanthrope. It can have some nice powers and still cost less than a bare naked tactical squad.

John117
15-04-2009, 11:06
I don't have the luxury of having all the most recent codex to compare rules, but not really after that either.

I'm just curious what people's opinion is on which army has the best non-special character pyskers? Could be purely offensive, purely defensive, like them because they're more reliable, they're cheap and plentiful etc etc.

I'm just trying to jump back into 40k and want to see what others think of psyker based armies, or just psyker lead armies (ie. Librarians vs Ulthwe vs Iyanden vs Tzeentch etc etc).

Try not to make this a lore discussion though.

Farseer for sure: DOOM and GUIDE + Banshees asaulting Terminators/SM

Fixer
15-04-2009, 11:31
A special note for psykers with anti psyker abilities.

Runes of Warding and Shadow in the warp will ruin the day of anything other than a Runes of Witnessing or Seer Counciled Farseer.

Bekenel
15-04-2009, 11:58
:):):):);)
Hi, I'm Cain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The strongest psyker in my experience as far as offensive power is concerned is an Ork Warboss with a power klaw but for defensive power I personally favour an Ork Battlewagon with a Deffrolla and Grabbin Klaw. I hope this answers your question.
CAIN!!!
You're my favourite poster.

On topic, I must say I am looking forward to fielding the Pysker squads in a IG army. Making Leadership worth something is one thing, but for Guard to be the army doing it :evilgrin:

Madmacmcmad
15-04-2009, 12:17
Where is the love for the weirdboyz??

Anyone who can shoot a 36inch range S10 melta, give everyone in the army fleet, everyone in the unit +1A or teleport 30 orks accross the battlefield is awesome.

weirdo2590
15-04-2009, 12:29
Dont forget explode! They're very good at that too!

Also mephiston, all the joys of being a librarian with 4 pyschic powers per turn.

Madmacmcmad
15-04-2009, 12:33
They hardly ever explode!!! If you get the upgrade you can re roll any 1s :)

Plus the exposion doesnt kill you :D

weirdo2590
15-04-2009, 13:29
Lets not forget you can hit a 1 on your re-rolls of other powers too: Oh didnt need fleet this turn i'll tray agai- BOOM

I'm still trying to scrape the ork off my rhino since last time that happened ^^

Madmacmcmad
15-04-2009, 13:52
Ha yea but that is part of the fun. If it didnt blow up then they would be boring!!

Lord Cook
15-04-2009, 16:15
It will be mitigated somewhat by the fact the unit using it isn't a daemon prince, or on jetbike, so is easier to catch, and easier to kill...

Only on foot. Not only can they take a chimera, but they can fire out of it even while it's moving.

NightrawenII
15-04-2009, 17:29
4/Space Marines - Redeployment of a squad via deep strike (near locator beacon), psychic hood, smite, vortex of doom are all good. You get 2 powers per 100point librarian and you can use both in the same turn for another 50 points. A 150 point dude for some awesome support which can 2/3 of the time hit your opponents Acilies heel. It's just a shame about only 2W and no inv save unless you waste a power on getting one.


Wait.... What about terminator armour?????

Raibaru
15-04-2009, 17:40
Haven't played in a tournie or anything, but do people take Runes of Warding often when Eldar? Cause I just don't see how things like Chaos, IG, or pretty much anyone will make use of any psychic powers while things like that exist.

Meriwether
15-04-2009, 20:16
Haven't played in a tournie or anything, but do people take Runes of Warding often when Eldar? Cause I just don't see how things like Chaos, IG, or pretty much anyone will make use of any psychic powers while things like that exist.

I always bring them on my farseers -- but I don't always bring farseers.

Meri

carldooley
15-04-2009, 23:28
WH Inquisitor Lord, Hammer of the Witches, Excrutiators, Psychic Hood
3x Penitents

loads of win against ALL other psykers - even better if playing VPs.

Marshal Augustine
16-04-2009, 00:58
My vote is on a farseer. Simply because of how easily he can nullify enemy psykers. The runes are nasty.

RichBlake
16-04-2009, 01:50
My vote is on a farseer. Simply because of how easily he can nullify enemy psykers. The runes are nasty.

Thats not really the psyker though, it's his wargear....

AtnaShadow
16-04-2009, 01:53
Well yeah, though its the psyker using the wargear, so I'd say that still counts.

Ghost-13
16-04-2009, 04:34
Id have to say Farseer, by himself hes not that great but doom and guide can really annihilate any squad that gives you trouble.