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Sarah S
14-04-2009, 02:47
Since my Black Numenoraen army is a little beyond my price range at the moment, I think I'll make the following my firs WotR army:

Epic Heroes
Durbuz 70

Common Formations
9 companies of Goblins with Shields with Captain and Drum 305
9 companies of Goblins with Shields with Captain and Drum 305
3 companies of Goblins with bows 60
3 companies of Goblins with bows 60
3 companies of Goblins with bows 60

Legendary Formations
Buhrdur 125 - Angmar Ally

Rare Formations
The Balrog of Morgoth 500
Mordor Troll Chieftan 200 - Mordor Ally
Isengard Troll Captain 150 - Isengard Ally
Cave Troll 75
Cave Troll 75

Fates
Cursed Armour of Udun 75

Total cost 1985

The army is strictly based on everything that was found in Moria. Goblins and trolls. Oh, and a Balrog :D Although some of the trolls are from out of town I figure they can represent different levels of the Moria troll hierarchy. The Cursed Armour would most likely go on the Troll Chieftan. Possibly the Balrog, would benefit from the armour although I think he is already hard enough to kill.

On standard deployments, I'll have the troll horde right in the center of the force for maximum capability. Flanking them with the infantry and the archers wherever. The army is wide. Very wide. Flanks shouldn't be a problem for any of the units. It simply takes up so much space that it's hard to get around my units.

DurBurz is surprisingly powerful for his point cost. With 3 resilience, 4 might and Epic Strike, he can be devastating in a Heroic Duel against heroes twice his cost. He's no Aragorn or Gil Galad, but he is hundreds of points cheaper than them! He also has Iron Fist and Inspiring Leader, which is a godsend to the low Courage goblins. Epic Cowardice can get him out of a tight spot if he is threatened by the aforementioned woodchipper heroes and is also incredibly useful when playing the field of swords kingslayer version.

Goblins are goblins. Weak, pathetic and innumerable. In formations of 9 companies, they strike back at full strength against all but the most dedicated opponents, and their mob rule helps account for their poor fight value. If I wasn't such a stickler for sticking to my own perverse themes I would think about including a Shade or two but poor positioning of the damn thing (as I am wont to do) would likely have a more of a negative impact against my Balrog and trolls than my enemies.

That brings us to the trolls. While there was only a single troll in the movie, the Fellowship encounters multiple trolls in the book, and multiple trolls do I have in my army. While not a completely ridiculous amount of trolls, I hope that the two Cave Trolls backed up by the Captain, Chieftan and Buhrdur are sufficient for my needs. The Chieftan's Troll Charge will hopefully be entertaining and devastating with 4 trolls of various types backing him up. Although they are monsters, I have no illusions about their endurance and don't expect them to reach enemies unscathed, but shooting and magic directed at the trolls isn't directed at my infantry or Balrog.

The Balrog is manoeuvrable enough to find action where he sees fit and lend his mighty help where necessary. It's the Balrog. What more can be said? Honestly, I think the Dragon is a better unit, but there was no Dragon in Moria, so I'll have to make due with the Balrog.

So I think that this is the army I am going to get to work on immediately. Any comments or suggestions?

Faeslayer
14-04-2009, 03:32
I'm trying to visualize what 216 goblins would look like, and it's a completely hideous picture.

Nu Fenix
14-04-2009, 09:21
Whats the price difference between this and your metal army of doom? And either way, I assume you wouldn't be paying retail price but using a discounter?

Using the Mordor Troll Chieftan to allow all the trolls within 12" to perform a Heroic Charge just seems mean, as it can really swing the battle in my mind.

For the Cursed Armour, I would have to crunch the numbers to see what would be worth putting on, but on instinct I would agree that the Troll Chieftan would be the best pick, due to how critical they are to the army.

JHK
14-04-2009, 14:33
I think it looks like a great list. What about a troll drummer? Do they seem worth it? It fits with "the drums in the deep" theme of Moria...

Sarah S
14-04-2009, 15:53
I think I'd have to give up the Isengard Captain to make room for a drummer, and I think the Captain would be more valuable to my list. If the trolls seem difficult to manoeuvrer for some reason I will look into the drummer, but I think I will try like this first.

As far as expense, this army will probably run me ~500, the metal army of doom is closer to $900.

fubukii
14-04-2009, 17:10
no gundabad black shields? no dragon :( no wargs, or spiders


seems like a ok and if you are going for a theme stick with it :)but the list could use some cav and things to make it a bit better overal. also some blackshields as they are so much better then goblins for the same points...

Sarah S
14-04-2009, 17:21
Point taken on the Blackshields. They are a Rare unit as opposed to common, and that would significantly cut down on my amount of Trolls.

Avatar of the Eldar
14-04-2009, 18:39
no gundabad black shields? no dragon :( no wargs, or spiders


seems like a ok and if you are going for a theme stick with it :)but the list could use some cav and things to make it a bit better overal. also some blackshields as they are so much better then goblins for the same points...


Sarah, I've appreciated your thoughtful posts regarding WotR in other threads, so know that this feedback comes well intentioned from someone who shares your views.

First off, gold stars for going with swarms of weedy goblins. But in compensating for their gaming crapitude it feels like you went a bit overboard.

Burdhur + Isengard Troll Chieftain + Mordor Troll Chieftain (AND a Balrog!) feels like cherry picking allies at the expense of your theme. (I do understand that they would save painting cart loads more goblins, but hey, what's a few dozen more? :p)

If you're taking a Balrog, that's a lot of compensation right there. I'd say trade in the out-of-towners for standard cave trolls, riderless wargs, and possibly batswarms and more goblins (to fubukii's suggestions)

Or, if you really want those superior trolls, drop the Balrog. Both is too much and the Balrog, as sensational and rare as he should be, is much more with your theme.

For what it's worth...

AotE

Sarah S
14-04-2009, 21:10
I didn't cherry pick them because they were the best choices, I chose them to provide some variety amongst my trolls.

In the book the trolls were much smarter and numerous than they were in the movie, with a number of them throwing boulders so the Balrog could cross. They're also referenced as having grown smarter, so I wanted some sort of hierarchy amongst the trolls. It's not my fault that GW spread the different types of trolls across 4 different army lists.

If I was trying to cherry pick for effectiveness, I would almost certainly simply take 2 Mordor Chieftans, a Mordor Troll and a half dozen Cave Trolls.

But with some of the above comments in mind, I've taken a look at readjusting my force (in so doing, I noticed that one of my Goblin formations didn't have a drum):

Epic Heroes
Durbuz 70

Common Formations
9 companies of Goblins with Shields with Captain and Drum 305
9 companies of Goblin Prowlers with Captain and Drum 305
2 companies of Goblins with bows 40
2 companies of Goblins with bows 40
2 companies of Goblins with bows 40
2 companies of Goblins with bows 40

Rare Formations
The Balrog of Morgoth 500
Mordor Troll Chieftan 200 - Mordor Ally
Mordor Troll Drummer 150 - Mordor Ally
Cave Troll 75
Cave Troll 75
Cave Troll 75
Cave Troll 75

Total cost 1990

I fear that the increased number of trolls may seem more suspicious than the combination of trolls I had in the previous list


no gundabad black shields? no dragon :( no wargs, or spiders
Couldn't fit the Gundabad Black Shields.
I think taking the dragon and the Balrog would be quite unfriendly of me. Heck, Avatar of the Eldar has problems with the Balrog and trolls, so I think players might object to the dragon... Particularly as I think the dragon is a far superior unit compared to the Balrog (and definitely compared to the trolls).
No wargs or spiders because I don't recall there actually being any wargs or spiders in Moria.

What do people think of having a huge formation of Prowlers like that?
Bad defence, strength and fight, but poisoned two-handed weapons seems pretty good for instances where they actually survive to fight back.

Avatar of the Eldar
14-04-2009, 23:16
Like the list. Curious how the Prowlers will play out. (I'd still rather have the Blackshields if it were me.) I better understand youf intentions for the Troll Chieftains. I didn't mean "cherrypicking" to be as pejorative as it sounded when you repeated it back. But that was my honest reaction/assumption.

From my sense of Tolkein, wargs and, to a lesser degree, spiders would be more likely allies to Moria than a dragon. They could be summoned or sent easier than a dragon making the trek down form the Grey Mountains/Withered Heath. Not sure how the spiders get across the Anduin. Orcs running a ferry service? (Getting my Tolkein geek on! So this is what fanboydom feels like?)

And yes, to this one LotR purist's POV, Balrog + Dragon = WAAC-esque *************. :rolleyes: (Unless one is playing a First Age battle!) ;)

fubukii
15-04-2009, 00:58
I didn't cherry pick them because they were the best choices, I chose them to provide some variety amongst my trolls.

In the book the trolls were much smarter and numerous than they were in the movie, with a number of them throwing boulders so the Balrog could cross. They're also referenced as having grown smarter, so I wanted some sort of hierarchy amongst the trolls. It's not my fault that GW spread the different types of trolls across 4 different army lists.

If I was trying to cherry pick for effectiveness, I would almost certainly simply take 2 Mordor Chieftans, a Mordor Troll and a half dozen Cave Trolls.

But with some of the above comments in mind, I've taken a look at readjusting my force (in so doing, I noticed that one of my Goblin formations didn't have a drum):




Epic Heroes
Durbuz 70

Common Formations
9 companies of Goblins with Shields with Captain and Drum 305
9 companies of Goblin Prowlers with Captain and Drum 305
2 companies of Goblins with bows 40
2 companies of Goblins with bows 40
2 companies of Goblins with bows 40
2 companies of Goblins with bows 40

Rare Formations
The Balrog of Morgoth 500
Mordor Troll Chieftan 200 - Mordor Ally
Mordor Troll Drummer 150 - Mordor Ally
Cave Troll 75
Cave Troll 75
Cave Troll 75
Cave Troll 75

Total cost 1990

I fear that the increased number of trolls may seem more suspicious than the combination of trolls I had in the previous list


Couldn't fit the Gundabad Black Shields.
I think taking the dragon and the Balrog would be quite unfriendly of me. Heck, Avatar of the Eldar has problems with the Balrog and trolls, so I think players might object to the dragon... Particularly as I think the dragon is a far superior unit compared to the Balrog (and definitely compared to the trolls).
No wargs or spiders because I don't recall there actually being any wargs or spiders in Moria.

What do people think of having a huge formation of Prowlers like that?
Bad defence, strength and fight, but poisoned two-handed weapons seems pretty good for instances where they actually survive to fight back.


drop the gobs with shields, for the gundabad black shields, and drop 1 troll.

also your list is illegal you have 7 rare formations and only 6 common formations. so my advice

drop 2 trolls, giving you 5 rare units
Swap shield gobs for gundabads for a 5-5 ratio
with spare points add Druzhag
I think this will leave you with 50 pts left, drop a captain for a shaman.

just realized you will still need another formation, maybe add another set of archers. with teh spare pts instead of the shaman

Sarah S
15-04-2009, 01:38
drop the gobs with shields, for the gundabad black shields, and drop 1 troll.

also your list is illegal you have 7 rare formations and only 6 common formations. so my advice

drop 2 trolls, giving you 5 rare units
Swap shield gobs for gundabads for a 5-5 ratio
with spare points add Druzhag
I think this will leave you with 50 pts left, drop a captain for a shaman.

just realized you will still need another formation, maybe add another set of archers. with teh spare pts instead of the shaman

I like those ideas. I can't believe I can't count my rare and common units properly. I knew there was a reason I wanted to keep Buhrdur. I suppose that's what I get when I make army lists instead of studying for finals...

Hope I pay more attention to detail on my Trusts exam tomorrow.

Here's a (hopefully) valid list:
Epic Heroes
Durbuz 70

Common Formations
9 companies of Goblin Prowlers with captain and drum 305
2 companies of Goblins with bows 40
2 companies of Goblins with bows 40
2 companies of Goblins with bows 40
2 companies of Goblins with bows 40
1 company of Goblins with bows 20

Legendary Formations
Buhrdur 125 - Angmar Ally

Rare Formations
The Balrog of Morgoth 500 (does anyone else think it's weird that it's "the" Balrog but you can take multiples?)
9 Companies of Gundabad Blackshields with captain and drum 305
Mordor Troll Chieftan 200 - Mordor Ally
Mordor Troll Drummer 150 - Mordor Ally
Cave Troll 75
Cave Troll 75

So, I think this one actually adds up right, and has the right number of troops and such now.
6 common formations, 6 rare formations, 1 Epic Hero, 1 legendary formation.

fubukii
15-04-2009, 01:40
lol :) easy thing to over look dont sweat it and good luck :P


heres a question for you though what are you using as prowlers? as far as i know they are all metal and a formation of 9 companies would cost 360 dollars...... from gw

Sarah S
15-04-2009, 01:53
I was planning to make use of the plastic goblins with spears and no shields.
Chop off the spear tip, throw on an axe-head or halberd blade.

Seems a reasonable conversion since Prowlers are, in all respects other than their two-handed weapon, identical to Goblin Warbands.

fubukii
15-04-2009, 02:03
i have a moria army and wanted to use a large block of them but due to price am not running them.

what are you gonna use for the axe blade? i have alot of fantasy bits but i think they wouldnt be the right scale for the model