View Full Version : 1500pt Fallen Realm vs Misty Mountain

Nu Fenix
14-04-2009, 18:20
Well, this afternoon I got to play my very first game for WOTR, trying out a tentative list based on what I have, though didn't want to have upgrades without the models being ready yet [certain command mainly].

As we wanted to get used to the rules, we used The Field of Swords objective with Shieldwalls for deployment, as we wanted a simple picthed battle, allowing us to focus on what our troops could do.

I had the following:
Dark Marshal
Grima Wormtongue
2x 3 Companies of Easterling Cohort, with Banner and Dragon Knight [1 Joined by Dark Marshal]
3 Companies of Easterling Cohort, with Pikes, Banner and Dragon Knight
2x 2 Companies of Easterling Archers
Khandish Chariot, with King
3 Companies of Kataphrackt [No command, not converted yet]
3 Companies of Spectral Host [Joined by Khamul]
Watcher in the Shadows

I believe this is roughly what my opponent had, though I might have missed the odd company or gotten some of the numbers wrong.

2x 3 Companies of Warg Pack
2 Companies of Moria Goblins with bows
3 Companies of Gundabad Blackshields
3 Companies of Morannon Orc
1 Company of Werewolves
Stone Giant
Dragon, upgraded to spellcaster and with Cursed Armour of Udun

We had a couple of hills on the board, with one in the middle, to break line of sight and make us move around the table. There were also some trees scattered around, with one large enough in my deployment for one Formation of Archers.

Well, the Dragon blitzed it down my flank, and started to pick off units with spells, causing considerable damage to me over the game.
The Giant went down the opposite flank, with the Werewolves in tow, heading towards my Chariot and Kataphrakts.
Meanwhile, the bulk of his army held back, as he relied on his monsters to do the bulk of the work in his army, supported by spellcasting.

Now, most of the game I can't remember specifically, but I do remember my army not performing as well as I hoped, and wondering how on earth I can deal with his Dragon! I didn't have much luck with magic against it, as Darkness and Dismay are more control based, although I did try to wound it by using Strength of Corruption, although it only cuased 1 hit against it. On the plus side, it failed to charge me and wasn't mighted up, which I was glad of.

By the end of Turn 4, I had lost my entire army. Now, I know I had some play mistakes which didn't help me, and that I'm way out of practice with wargaming as a whole, whilst the person I played has been playing since I last saw him in the store 5 years ago.

However, these are my thoughts and considerations about the game, what I might change in my list, and questions for all of you here.
- How do you deal with the Dragon? Whilst he cost almost a third of his army, considering the power it has, able to fly over anything in the way, At The Double to get well within range, is solid in combat, hard to hurt both in combat and with shooting, can be a spellcaster for extra power, and if it only moves half speed it can shoot with 6 shots at Strength 10! I felt my best chance was to try and lower its Courage value and attack with my Spectral Host, which had mixed results. By the end of the game it had 4 [or 5?] wound markers, but I had to do a serious pounding against it to do that. What could I pick that I can use in my army, ideally [but not restricted to] the Fallen Kingdoms list.
- Whilst I figured magic would be good, I felt that the Undying in a large unit would have possibly served me better then one of the other Ringwraiths, as not requiring me to use a Might point for Will of Iron could have forced my opponent to either be hopeful, or pick other units instead, allowing my main to plow through unscathed. I'm also tempted to stick a third wizard into my army at 1500, either a third Ringwraith or Queen Beruthiel, depending on what I can afford/sacrifice.
- Inspiring Leader is so useful! Since Amdur isn't out yet, and I haven't got a Suladan yet [debating if I want him], I decided I wanted to try out the Dark Marshal to bolster the Courage of my army. It was partly the reason why I went for Dragon Knights over Captains, as the Courage boost wasn't as critical versus the Fight boost. Once Amdur is out, when I do use him, I feel the Inspiring Leader ability will save me on more then one occassion.
- I think that if I merged the two Cohorts into one block of 6, they may have done more. I'm not certain without more testing, but bulking out the unit whilst saving points by needing less command may be worth it.
- My opinion of Dragon Knights being more useful then Captains because of their extra Fight is now tainted by the fact only having one Might REALLY makes you wonder when to use it! For a Heroic action? Will of Iron? Something else, although those two were the big times I felt a need. Unfortunately, every time I was in combat it was against his monsters who were higher then Fight 7, so I felt like I had been cheated out of trying out their full use.
- My opponent had gotten the rules wrong on banners, which himself and others had been doing. He thought they allowed you a re-roll on Courage tests, not rolls on the Panic chart, which I quickly corrected him on. I would just like to know if others have made this mistake, or seen others doing it? Is it just them thinking of a BSB from Warhammer, or just mixing up Panic and Courage, or even just not reading things right? Who knows, but I hope others don't make a similar mistake.
- If I was forced to make a choice between either a Banner or a Hero, I would pick the Hero each and every time! Both are useful, and if the unit intends to fight, try and take both, but the benefits you get from having a Might point, on top of the Command Company using their Fight value when attacking, is amazing! For those who are building lists and can't decide if it is worth paying for, try and have a Hero [Epic or normal] in every unit, and if an Epic is going in, don't just skip on the idea of having a Hero because then it means you are hesitant to leave the unit and go elsewhere. I definately need to finish working on my Command for my Katarphrakts, for this I am certain!
- Spectral Hosts have a mixed opinion on the forums, and I was an advocate of them. Since they tried to fight a Dragon, whilst they had a better chance of wounding then most infantry, their lower Defence is noticeable. Ideally I would have liked to take on another infantry unit, preferably one with Grima in it.
- Watcher in the Shadows was great in theory, but because I expected him to actually move the bulk of his army forward, it ended up not being in a useful place. I still intend to combine with with either Spectral Hosts or Visions of Woe, and in an ideal world it would be both, with Grima for added angry!

So overall, and unsuccessful game, but like everything in life it was a learning experience, and once I figure out what things I would change, what models I would add, and what I would do differently, I can come back here with battle reports where I win [or at the least had a close loss!].

15-04-2009, 17:58
If you want to remain with your theme you could take a couple of Mordor or Isengard ballistas and replace the crew with Easterings. But still pay the point for it as an ally. Artillery are superb to bring down monsters and trolls, as well as large formations of troops.
As far as I know you can also put an Epic hero with it, that you could alter the die roll in your favor. Turning a Five on the Extra Hard to Kill table to a six would be useful, you also get +1 on the second roll as well. Or change the die roll on the artillery table.
Once the Dragon have a few wounds you would charge it with some powerful hero and epic strike him, where you also could burn a Might point to alter the die when necessary.

Artillery on a hill is very dangerous to such creatures, if you like trolls, have them guard the artillery until the dragon is dead, two of them would probably be enough... :)

Arbalesters wound the Dragon on sixes at close range, that would be quite dangerous for any big monster. Why not have a small contingent from Umbar as well...

Anyway there are several ways to deal with monsters and Dragons are one of the most powerful. As they should be... though I might question the fun in taking a dragon in such a small game, that is my bigges problem with power gaming...

If you had Boromir on your side he could beat it to a bloody pulp in a duel, backed up with Gandalf and he would could even do this repeatedly. But then again you are evil so you deserve a good beating. ;)

Nu Fenix
15-04-2009, 18:14
From the way I read the charts though, it says a Natural 6 is rolled, which to me implies you rolled the 6, no modified to a 6 from Might or Wound markers. My and my opponent both agreed how it was read, although the staff member disagreed. Being a former Redshirt [though they don't know that], they may think they are right but are actually wrong.

Using Easterling crew on a warmachine is tempting, and would still look right thematically.

I like the idea of Arbalesters, but the hugh price tag is putting me off. Once I have got other elements of the army sorted and saved up some cash, perhaps...

Him having two powerful monsters being almost half his army didn't impress me at all, as the rest of it just sat there and watched for most the game. He is practicing for the same 1500 point tournament as me though, so he is taking a list designed to win. Currently he seems like he has a strong chance to do so.

Allying someone like Lurtz in [the Evil Borormir!] would feel like a dirty yet effective way to deal with said creatures however.

As for deserving a beating for playing Evil, I think it is just some very good PR from the Good armies that makes them seem like the winners all the time. If we had good PR, people would celebrate our victories against Good ;)

Sarah S
15-04-2009, 18:52
I think your formations are too small to deal with monsters. Formations of 3 companies are quickly rendered ineffective (or destroyed outright) by the big ~500 point beasties. I highly recommend that you combine the two cohorts formations into a single formation of 6.

This will give you a block that can absorb punishment and still dish out its complement of attacks for a couple turns.

If you want a really devastating anti-monster combination for the Fallen Realms to deal with monsters, how about a formation of any of the units that come with poisoned weapons (or any formation if you can count on another character who can cast Dark Fury to be in the formation), joined by Amdur and equipped with the Morgul Blades fate?

Blowing your load of might points in one fight against the monster will give you a duel that you likely win, followed by hitting on 4's with the company, re-rolling 1's and then rolling another set of attacks for those that hit, etc. That should blow the dragon out of the water.

I don't think his list is actually all that effective. Once the monsters are dealt with, there's really not much of substance to it.

Damien 1427
15-04-2009, 19:13
Hmm, true, but a dragon with all those fancy bits he described is over a third of the points cost. But a Haradrim Warband that is loaded to the gills with nine companies, banner, Amdr and Morgul Blades is going to be in the same ballpark. A very pricey unit.

Nu Fenix
15-04-2009, 19:14
As I mentioned, I was unsure about merging them into one solid block of 6 instead, and thought that for the game I would try the blocks of 3, and use that to decide how it should have been done. Next time they will be one block of 6. [Although I now have a spare metal Easterling Command...]

I am hoping that there won't be much in the way of powerful monsters at the event, as I wouldn't want to build a list to counter something I don't know will exist or not. Conversely, I don't want to hope they will all be normal lists and everyone but me is running around with swarms of Ents, Eagles, Trolls, Giants, Balrogs and Dragons!

Whilst combining Amdur, Morgul Blades and poisoned weapons is very powerful, and can deal with most things, that is 290 points before the Formations even appear! However, if it can kill me a 500 point monster, then perhaps it is worth trying.
I was thinking a more solid unit such as Easterlings with Dalamyr or The Betrayer may be a better substitute, as the Defence 7 on the Easterlings would mean the Dragon only hits on a 4, whilst I can re-roll all failed hits instead of just 1s, further increasing my odds of getting through it.

Sarah S
15-04-2009, 19:18
Dalmyr is also a great combination.

I think Fates are pretty good equalizers against a lot of different things because they let you tailor your force to do "x" without having to change your units to do so.

Note that that combination would annihilate most enemies, not just monsters! ;)

Nu Fenix
15-04-2009, 19:26
Now all I have to do is change my list, offer him a rematch, and see if it works!

Failing that, beat someone else up instead and hope it works on them!

I'll probably try it with The Betrayer over Dalamyr for now, as the spellcasting and permanent re-rolls for 25 points more are the big swing, verses negating their charge. That and I own Khamul plus the Weathertop box and lack a Dalamyr ;)

16-04-2009, 16:57
take balistas! I've got three for my dwarves and they are str 8 compared to your str 9 balistas. They will shoot any monstors down!
for sure take the bigger blocks of troops - but you also need some cav - take the haridrim riders as they have lances to give you the all important plus 1 to hit!
next time just go balistic on the dragon, hold back your forces, and once he's down show him some wrath!
and finally you can also buy some cheap troops, no command, and use them as a screen to absorb initial attacks so it gives you time to shoot/magic the tough elements of his army.
hope it helps

17-04-2009, 03:01
Best combo for killing monsters is probably a monster killing hero (Boromir, Legolas, Lurtz) combined with a big block of shooters...

17-04-2009, 06:47
At 1500p you must have at least one big block of troops, preferably two I say.. but smaller formations are equally important because they give you a tactical advantage. So a mix of formation in different sizes are generally good.

A good medium sized infantry unit should cost about 150p including the command element, no more than that or it becomes too hurtfull to loose and it will attract unwanted attention from you oponent becasue it is too big a part of your army.

A good main unit should round out at about 250p+, so you can cram allot of companies in such a unit, the more the better including most of the command options as well.

The third category are minor support element, these should never cost you above 100p, these are small support element that you can use for flanking, protecting flanks, occupy defensible terrain or hunt for objectives. They are best use with high movement units, such as cavalry and cheap monsters. No command in those.

I think I'm rambling here and don't think I actually gave you any sound tips for this particular army... but in general... balance is good.