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Jorgen_CAB
14-04-2009, 21:03
I have a rules quiestion that I would like to talk about.

I fully understand the clipping part of the rules, but can you press a whole line back becasue you want to charge a unit further back. I demonstrate below.

O = Orcs
S = Shieldwal
A = Archers

Here we have an eight strong orc unit that charges the archers. Can they clip both shieldwalls to prevent them from flanking or do they have to charge in and align with their companies two wide and four deep?

I was figuring that you cant clip here, otherwise it could provide some strange results.

_______________OOOO:OOOO:OOOO:OOOO______________
_______________OOOO:OOOO:OOOO:OOOO______________

_____SSSS:SSSS:SSSS____________SSSS:SSSS:SSSS_____
_____SSSS:SSSS:SSSS_AAAA:AAAA_SSSS:SSSS:SSSS_____
__________________________________________________ __

krashreed
16-04-2009, 17:48
From what I understand of the rules. You would declare the charge with your lead/command company from a formation. The other three companies would fall in place with as many making contact as possible as long as you don't move more than double their movement to do so. For example you would end up with something like...
_____OOOO:OOOO:OOOO:OOOO______________
_____OOOO:OOOO:OOOO:OOOO______________
_____SSSS:SSSS:SSSS____________SSSS:SSSS:SSSS_____
_____SSSS:SSSS:SSSS_AAAA:AAAA_SSSS:SSSS:SSSS_____
_____________________AAAA:AAAA____________________ _

or...

_________________________OOOO:OOOO:OOOO:OOOO____
_________________________OOOO:OOOO:OOOO:OOOO____
_____SSSS:SSSS:SSSS____________SSSS:SSSS:SSSS_____
_____SSSS:SSSS:SSSS_AAAA:AAAA_SSSS:SSSS:SSSS_____
_____________________AAAA:AAAA____________________ _

Ending up with all four companies getting their full 8 attacks for a whopping 36 dice versus their 27. But in this scenario the unengaged warriors would get the flank charge on you.

Llew
16-04-2009, 19:29
IIRC, you don't have to pick your command company to be your spearhead for the attack. If you're willing to gamble on the result, you may try to pick a unit that's a bit further away.

This might allow you a chance to reform your unit as you charge (depending on how literal you were going to be with getting as many models as possible into combat), with a slim chance that maybe you end up outside of the charge arc of the second shieldwall unit.

Remember that, unlike Warhammer, you're not stuck in the same formation, and you're not moving your entire formation as a block. Each company basically moves separately as I understand it.

Bear in mind this is all highly dependent on your overall movement, etc.

There could also be the chance of getting a flank charge off ON a shield wall, but then you would definitely clip the archers and probably leave yourself open to a rear charge.

StanMcKim
17-04-2009, 02:18
My interpretation would be this:
You have charged the archers.
You are required to maximize frontage against the unit you charge, so under normal circumstances, your formation would line up against them this way:
oooo oooo oooo oooo
oooo oooo oooo oooo
_____aaaa aaaa
_____aaaa aaaa

However, in doing so you clip the shield walls and are thus required to "close the door" by having the opposing player move their companies the minimum amount in order to make everything line up correctly. This to me would mean pushing each one back in order to line up with the archers so you get:

________oooo oooo oooo oooo
________oooo oooo oooo oooo
ssss ssss ssss aaaa aaaa ssss ssss ssss
ssss ssss ssss aaaa aaaa ssss ssss ssss

This also seems to make the most sense from a "realistic" point of view.The orcs aren't going to let themselves get flanked by avoiding the warriors around the archers. It'll just be a tide that will engage the whole thing.

-Stan

Llew
17-04-2009, 14:00
Doesn't "closing the door" require that you actually reach your target though?

Here's the other thing that I alluded to -- you don't move your formation in a big block like you do in Warhammer. Clipping occurs not from moving the formation in a big block, but based on how you position the Spearhead Company, and whatever legal formation changes you make based off it's orientation.

Pick your spearhead. If that spearhead company can reach the archers, it does. Then you move the rest of the companies in your formation up to double your Move rate, one at a time, into the attack position, maximizing the number of companies in combat.

If you took this literally, and there was no overlap between the Shieldwalls and Archer (in other words, the right edge of one Shieldwall lined up with the left edge of the Archers, etc.) then actually you would move your two companies into the archers, and already be flanked by the flanks of the Shieldwalls. This, of course, would probably necessitate moving the Shieldwalls 1 inch away from you since I don't know that this is technically a clipping contact, but more an unintentional contact.

In this set up, there's really no practical way to charge anything without getting at minimum a flank and possibly a rear charge from the other Shieldwall.

NOTE: Using this following scenario might (justifiably) get you pummeled by your opponent for being a jerk and not playing in the spirit of the rules.

If you were hoping to draw two units into a fight, you'd start with one of your middle units of orcs as the spearhead making a flank charge at the Shieldwall. Move your orcs to contact a point on the Shield wall and have another point touch the archers. Since your unit of orcs is in contact with both units, claim that they can't be moved, and invoke the ruling that in such instances, the defender has to move to meet you. It's a flank charge, so the Shield wall turns so that it's flank is to you, and the archers would then "close the door" and be in a regular combat with your one company.

It would be messy, it would look bad and it definitey wouldn't be in the spirit of the rules.

Generally, I'd say that there's no way that any of the clipping scenarios so far described would happen if you follow the rules and forget WFB ways of thinking about movement.