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Brother Muninn
17-12-2005, 19:34
So I was reading through the Adeptes Astartes article of US WD 311 where a sidebar mentions the fact that 90% of the Chapter was wiped away by an Ork invasion of their homeworld. So now they're running at 20% capacity, since it was mentioned that they've recruited their 10th company back to full strength, but refuse to expidite their training in order to return the chapter to full strength as well.

Now I'll admit, it's been a while since I read the Adeptes Astartes article on the Crimson Fists, but I'd think I'd remeber something as significant as that. Admittedly the 3rd edition Space Marine book cover WAS a mound of Fists making a last stand, but I never thought there was a story to go along with it. I was a little suprised at this, and I'm sure there are a few Fist players out there who will be as well.

Wraith
17-12-2005, 20:15
Yeah, during an attack by orks on the chapter's home world (Rynn’s World) one of the chapter's own missiles malfunctioned arced back on the fortress monastery and detonated the armoury.

It's all in the Crimson Fist's Index Astartes article,

schoon
17-12-2005, 20:49
IIRC, they were also used as the "Blind Obediance" counterpoint to the "Enlightened Freedom" of the Soul Drinkers in the latest novel of that series - more than somewhat heavy-handedly.

Though Black Library is of dubious "canon" worth sometimes, that novel would seem to indicate a continued decline.

Nazguire
17-12-2005, 20:52
The Crimson Fists armoury was also the subject of conspiracy, thinking that an Assassin tampered with either the missile or the Fortress itself to create such catastrophic damage. Because really, the odds of the missile, finding the only real weak point in the entire Fortress-Monastery is incredibly and completely unlikely.

Regardless, the Crimson Fists also went against the Rule 'o Cool in 40k also, instead of declaring a suicidal last stand against an enemy and wipe ALL of themselves out, the Chapter Master Kantro (that right, I might be wrong on the name partially?) decided to rebuild their strength and only participate in small raids where numbers weren't important. Hence why during the 13th Black Crusade you heard nothing about such an important and older Chapter.

Also it is good that the Crimson Fists story is being furthered along by Games Workshop, whether it is a sales ploy or not. At least it is some furthering of the background which is good. More of it :)

marv335
17-12-2005, 20:53
rynn's world was a while ago.
there are two versions of the history.
one says that one captain and 15 marines survivied. (rogue trader.)
the other says 128 marines survived.
the latter is the established version. this is why the 1st company is 128 marines strong. in memory of the fallen. also the chapter master is also the captain of the 1st company.
all full marines have the left glove painted red. members of the 1st company (also known as the crusading company) have both gloves painted red.
veteran sergeants generally use a powerfist.

the commander at the time was Pedro Cantor btw

Nazguire
17-12-2005, 20:59
rynn's world was a while ago.
there are two versions of the history.
one says that one captain and 15 marines survivied. (rogue trader.)
the other says 128 marines survived.
the latter is the established version. this is why the 1st company is 128 marines strong. in memory of the fallen. also the chapter master is also the captain of the 1st company.
all full marines have the left glove painted red. members of the 1st company (also known as the crusading company) have both gloves painted red.
veteran sergeants generally use a powerfist.

I thought that the Crusading Company had nothing to do with Rynns world. I was quite sure that it had something to do with the Crimson Fists' opening Crusades or something similar. That was why before Rynn's World the First Company (Crusading Company) was always 128 Marines strong and that it was a bad omen to go to war without the Crusading Company involved.

Rynn's World also has two versions. One is that the war is still en-going (the older) and that the world has been reduced from the forest world it was into a wasteland due to war, and the other was that the Crimson Fists and IG recaptured it and are now re-building everything (which is the established newest version)

Edit* Cheers, knew it was something along those lines, a friend to Captain Cortez he was and confident in Cortez' survival

FieronThor
17-12-2005, 21:44
From my memory it was all to with Orks landing at Badlanding, and a Company of Crimson Fists got sent to determine size of the ork invasion there. Subsequently the Rynn's World attack takes place. I think the fluff was left off where Rynn's World is back in Imperial control thanks to Pedro Kantor's leadership. But the original invasion at Badlanding is still in Ork territory.

damz451
17-12-2005, 23:25
iv read somewhere that other space marine chapters tampered with the missile due to the crimson fists annoyance to other chapters claiming them as unpure

AgentZero
17-12-2005, 23:33
iv read somewhere that other space marine chapters tampered with the missile due to the crimson fists annoyance to other chapters claiming them as unpure


That's so VERY unlikely.
First off ,what is a Chapter doing allowing another Chapter's personnel into a sacred area or to maitenance/have access to such weaponry?
The Fortess' armaments and their upkeep would not be subject to another Chapter's attention.
If one Chapter has a problem with another, they duke it out, none of that sissy behind the back crap. That's =I= territory.

neXus6
17-12-2005, 23:39
I've always had a bit of a feeling that it was a conspiracy.

There also has to have been more than just the missile being tampered with.
The Dark Angels Fortress Monistary had a force field strong enough to keep it and a large chunk of Caliban safe while the planet broke appart, yet this lone missile passes through, I assume, a very similar field, busts through a mountain and lands smack dab in the armoury.

At least they got off a lot lighter than the Celestial Lions. :p

Brother Muninn
18-12-2005, 00:13
Yeah, those poor Lions... I'm thinking of painting up a Kill Team of them and playing them out as the last remnants of the Chapter.

If I recall they too were wiped out in an Orkish invasion (Armageddon?) where "surprisingly accurate" Ork snipers killed off every single Apothacary. That's what you get for opposing the Inquisition though.

Nazguire
18-12-2005, 04:59
I've always had a bit of a feeling that it was a conspiracy.

There also has to have been more than just the missile being tampered with.
The Dark Angels Fortress Monistary had a force field strong enough to keep it and a large chunk of Caliban safe while the planet broke appart, yet this lone missile passes through, I assume, a very similar field, busts through a mountain and lands smack dab in the armoury.

At least they got off a lot lighter than the Celestial Lions. :p

Indeed, the Celestial Lions have no members of the Apothecarion left, and under 100 Marines left. But that also doesn't mean that they would be destroyed. Every Chapter sends gene-seed to the AM as a tithe for genetic purity, where it is stored and scrutinised. Surely, it would be possible for the Celestial Lions to send some novice or in training Apothecaries to Mars or wherever to get some knowledge of the subject of Marine-ification, or at least have Adeptus Mechanicus on standby helping out.

It may be harder than that though, as the process of being turned into a Marine is a 'sacred' affair, and so I'm guessing it was very secret and very few even in the Adeptus Mechancius know how to accomplish the feat.

And also there is the question, would the Inquisition let the above happen?

FieronThor
18-12-2005, 08:07
If that inquisitor was paricularly nasty he could stop the AM from teaching the necessary knowledge to become an apothecary to any Celestial Lion.

ankellagung
18-12-2005, 08:46
Actually, IIRC several chapters including the Space Wolves and Ultramarines offered to help them rebuild by lending a few Apothecaries (sp?) and such, but the Lions refused, either because they were too proud or because they knew the Inquisition would just come after them again.

ryng_sting
18-12-2005, 09:51
The Crimson Fists now stand at over 200 hundred warriors. Pedro Kantor now doubles as Chapter Master and Captain of the 1st company, which is composed of all the Rynn's World Incident survivors (duh). Someone got a promotion (and a lot of bionics, by the look of it) to become the 10th company captain. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes the Fists to rebuild their numbers - if it took the Ultramarines over two centuries just to rebuild one company (albeit the veteran one)...

Another thought: their chaplains and standard bearers were wiped out during the incident, but each company needs to have one of each (we know their apothecaries survived). Do you think the scouts, once they become full marines, would repopulate the reserve companies first, or go straight to the battle companies?

neXus6
18-12-2005, 14:19
I suppose it would depend, the reserve companies are used to replace troops lost from the battle companies. If the battle companies are still far from full strength you would assume they would pretty much go straight into them.

FieronThor
18-12-2005, 17:03
From a recent White Dwarf article, it seems that the Crimson Fists are making sure that their troops are trained properly. They are not rushing troops thru the scout stage, i.e. 10th company. I suspect that it will be like how the Ultramarines rebuilt after Hive Fleet Kraken's (i think) attack on Macragge. The 1st company will be the very last to be bolstered, while the battle companies are rebuilt.

McMullet
19-12-2005, 09:10
It was suggested in Crimson Tears that they were approaching half strength now; certainly, they took a lot of losses, and it was suggested that 1 company was nearly half of their strength of full battle-brothers. Therefore, there are over 200 marines, plus probably more than 100 scouts - getting on for 400 normal guys.

f2k
19-12-2005, 09:40
What Iím wondering is why the High Lords of Terra would sanction the destruction of the Crimson Fists? The Lions were a bit too vocal so they got whacked, but what did the Fists do to deserve such a fateÖ?

Captain Ardias
19-12-2005, 09:56
What happened to the celestial lions? Where they "rude" towards the inquisition?

charlie_c67
19-12-2005, 09:58
They sorted out a world so that it was brought back to the emperors light only for the inquisition to cyclone bomb it unecesairily. So they started to kick up and thigns went down hill from there. Has to be said though, the =][= who started to wipe them out must be damn sure of his position.

McMullet
19-12-2005, 11:01
I don't theink the Fists were nuked by the Inquisition; it's just a very old piece of fluff, where the writers weren't quite so concerned with checking consistency. Someone just decided that it'd be a cool bit of background, so they wrote it, and now it looks a bit weird. Quite a cool piece of fluff, but not implemented very well (might've been better if most of the Chapter were on a Battle Barge that got hit or something, much less of a bizarre coincidence).

ryng_sting
19-12-2005, 16:51
There's nothing beyond speculation that says the Inquisition tampered with the Crimson Fists; sheer bad luck seems to be the case.

The Celestial Lions defeated a Slaaneshi uprising on a planet; before they left, Inquisitor Apollyon had the entire populace destroyed by orbital bombardment. The Lions tried to stop him and failed, and publically denounced him and the entire Inquisition for Apollyon's actions.

It would seem they protested too loudly.

FieronThor
19-12-2005, 17:06
I dont think it was a case of bad luck that destroyed the Crimson Fists' fortress. In my opinion someone in the Imperium probably wanted them out of the way if they were interfering with things. It could also be possible yet far fetched, that it was the Orks who infiltrated and sabotaged the base.

cailus
20-12-2005, 08:04
In regards to the destruction of the Fist's fortress, I offer but one word:

Cypher.

FieronThor
20-12-2005, 08:07
I thought Cypher usually pops up on the other side of he galaxy near the EOT to Terra 'passage'.

Nazguire
20-12-2005, 08:14
In regards to the destruction of the Fist's fortress, I offer but one word:

Cypher.

why? That's the last person that could be at the heart of the 'conspiracy against the Crimson Fists'

boogle
20-12-2005, 10:28
Re the celestial Lions: http://www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/clions.html

Jimbobjeff
20-12-2005, 10:40
Freak warp storm.....

marv335
20-12-2005, 14:20
In regards to the destruction of the Fist's fortress, I offer but one word:

Cypher.


the destruction of the crimson fists fortress-monastery was described long before cypher was ever thought of. it's one of the original pieces of space marine fluff ever written. cypher didn't turn up until late 2nd edition.

Apollyon
20-12-2005, 14:32
My $.02, old fluff circa WD 98(ish), The Crimson Fists were hard up against it. The Orcs had them trapped in a box canyon on Rynn's world and were massing forces to wipe them out. The Dark Angels heard their request for help and dropped podded in the entire Ravenwing (on speeder bikes no less look I said it was olde fluff). The RW used the expaimrntal tactic of launching the speeder from the pods as they desended. Lucky they did as there was a100% drop pod failure !! The DA caught the Orcs by suprise and being caught between the DA and the CF they were massacred to an Orc !

Who coould be behind the Missle and drop pod failure ???


Orkemedes! :eek: :wtf:

edit for clarity:o

FieronThor
20-12-2005, 14:37
Being a bit far-fetched here -> Orkimedes could of invented a teleportation system which could of got a bunch of Orks into the CF fortress, and they could of sabotaged stuff. But why they would of stopped there would not make sense.

marv335
20-12-2005, 23:29
the only problem with the orkimedies theory is that rynn's world was probably before he was spored.