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Moi
05-05-2005, 01:00
My playgroup and I were having a debate on multiple wounds weapons (mww). In close combat, if a mww makes a wounding hit on a single-wound model, the additional wounds are ignored and each wounding hit results in a single wound made. When striking a multiple-wounds model (an undead bat with 2 wounds, for example), each wounding hit is multiplied by a number (in some cases, D3 wounds, in others, each wounding hit is doubled) with the the number of wounds of the target model being the maximum wounds inflicted.

My question is: What happens to mww in duels in regard to overkill wounds?

In my point of view, it is resolved in the exact same way as when hitting a regular model. On a hero with 2 wounds, each unsaved wounding hit would inflict a maximum of two wounds. So the same hero in a duel against a mww (the D3 wounds variety) wielding opponent hit two times by unsaved wounding hits would receive a maximum of 4 wounds for a +2 overkill bonus on combat resolution.

In some people's view in my playgroup, in a duel, each wounding hit from a mww would be multiplied without a maximum number of wounds for each supplemental wound is counted in a duel. Then, in the above example, if the player rolled 2 and 3 on each D3, the first 2 wounds would kill the hero and the 3 extra wounds would become a +3 overkill bonus.

What do you think?

Major Defense
05-05-2005, 12:31
I would guess that by "duels" you mean "challenges" so with that...

Your friends are correct. If your D3 wounds character hits and wounds three times against my lord character (three wounds) then each D3 of wounds is rolled seperately. So say I have no save and you roll the first of three and get a 2. No matter what the second wounding does I will only have one wound left for it to take and the last wounding also foregoes the D3, leaving you with 3 wounds caused +1 from overkill.

While we're on the topic of wounding I should point out something about Killing Blow. Models with this ability and multiple attacks have to be careful when attacking a character or other model with more than one wound in their characteristics. You can roll all of your hits together but you MUST roll each strenth-versus-toughness roll to wound seperately. If you grouped all of your wounds together and got a 6 in there then there would be no way of telling in which order the killing blow went. If it was the model's last wound or caused after the model was slain then it would only count as +1 overkill in a challenge.

scatterlaser
05-05-2005, 14:55
From the Direwolf FAQ (I don't have the Annual and so can't check the reference, but they're pretty reliable):

Q. Can you can use the multiplying affect of multiple wound weapons to rack up a bunch of overkill on one wound champions (or characters who are starting the combat round with one wound) in a challenge situation?

To illustrate: In a challenge, can a Character with 3 Attacks on his profile and wielding a multiple wound weapon gain +6 combat resolution points from trashing a unit champion with only one wound on his profile (or an enemy character starting the combat round with only one wound)?

A. Number of Wounds doesn't matter, because a character with 3 wounds reduced to one, or a champion starting with one wound is all the same for purposes of multiple wound weapons in a challenge. When attacks are allocated (when excess wounds may be wasted, unlike attacks against rank and file) then each unsaved wound is multiplied. In this case, you can tear the champion apart and get your +6 combat resolution (1 Wound plus up to 5 overkill), even though he has only one wound.

S. Gav Thorpe - Warhammer Design Team / Annual 2002 page 15
Going by that, all wounds, including overkill, get fully multiplied in challenges. I think this is different to how it worked in 5th Ed, where hit/wound multipliers didn't work for overkill (probably because there was no cap on overkill back then, so otherwise the Hydra Sword/Dragonslayer Sword/etc would have been ridiculous...)

Moi
05-05-2005, 15:13
Where is this FAQ? I need to point it to my friends! ;)

scatterlaser
06-05-2005, 00:32
http://www.geocities.com/mi_whplayers/dwfaq.html

It's a collection of GW FAQs/Q&As, organised by topic and with references to where they all came from. It's a pretty handy resource.

Crazy Harborc
06-05-2005, 00:57
Check in the 2004 or 2003 Chronicles.......I "think"(???) the question might be in one of them. It's worth a shot..........Hope for a link that goes to GW's site so you can print a "offical copy" that mentions GW on the margins.

Moi
06-05-2005, 07:03
I couldn't find it in either 2003 or 2004 Chronicles, that's why I asked here. ;) Thanks for the link!

WLBjork
09-05-2005, 10:30
That above Q&A is copied directly from the 2002 Chronicles, and apparently is not in any of the others.

More annoyingly it's not in the online FAQs.

Riddy
09-05-2005, 13:33
This is why a Chaos Lord with a Rending sword can take on units on his own.

Festus
09-05-2005, 14:00
How could he possibly?

If I can count, the unit will have +3CR through ranks, +1CR through standard and +1 CR outnumbering...
...combining a huge +5CR bonus.

Even if everything goes according to plan, the unit will test on a -1 modifier (as Overkill is capped at +5). This can easily be passed.
If not, the Lord wastes his potential on a unit of considerably less value than his own (at least 285 points, probably a lot more).

It is a lot easier to simply refuse the challenge, though, as the Chaos Lord can then only cause as many W as he has attacks, as all multiplying is for naught then :)
This has the additional advantage that he has to hit and wound with all his attacks to break even (-1 test due to musician)

If he doesn't manage to cause 6W, he will have to test himself (with a -1 modifier at least). Then the unit can lap around, gaining another +1CR for flanks and as such the lord cannot win and will always lose on the musician.
In the second and subsequent rounds, there will not be a champion present to challenge anymore, and the Chaos Lord will automatically lose.

Easy, innit? ;)

Greetings
Festus

T10
20-05-2005, 17:18
What do you think?

You lose a lot of wounds :-)

Seriously: In a challenge you work go for the max.

If score three unsaved wounding hits on a 2 Wounds character and each d3 for multiple wounds rolls a 3, then you score 9 wounds! However...

Actual wounds lost: +2
Overkill bonus: +5 (max)

Total +7 to combat resolution. Tip-top!

-T10