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View Full Version : 1500pt Fallen Realm w/ Morgul Blades



Nu Fenix
15-04-2009, 20:51
Well, after the defeat I suffered in my last game, and advise in my battle report [See here: http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193572]

Epic Heroes
Amdur - 165
The Betrayer - 125
The Undying - 125

Common Formations
6x Easterling Cohort + Morgul Blades - 305
3x Easterling Cohort + Pikes & Captain - 155
3x Easterling Kataphrakt + Captain - 140
3x Easterling Archer - 105
3x Easterling Archer - 105
Khandish Chariot + King - 150

Total - 1375

Originally I had 250 points and was debating what to do with it, but added The Undying, as being able to make Will of Iron rolls without expending Might, and also increasing in Mastery as spellcasters get within 12" of him, I felt was good to take and spread my character support across the board.

So, what would folks suggest for the remaining 125?
* Whilst I can afford a 3rd Ringwraith, I feel 4 Epic Heroes in a force this sized is risky.
* Another Formation would be my main thought, although the only models I have spare under this list are 3 Companies of Spectral hosts, who were a tempting plan for my original spare 250 points. I am thinking of 3 Companies of Easterling Cohort with a Dragon Knight for exactly 125 points. Another are a Watcher Warband, to use the Ambush ability to get into the right place.
* A tempting choice, in the spirit [excuse the pun!] of the Spectral Hosts, would be Court of the Fallen Kings, who could take on Resilience 2 Formations and scare them.
* Adding a Captain to the 6 strong Cohort Formation, as a backup hero, gives me spare Might, saving it on Amdur and The Betrayer, with the spare 75 for Grima. Yes I know he isn't that popular, but I like the idea of him, and combining him with Terror and Transfix/Visions of Woe is incredibly worth it, with the -1 Fight added icing. [Note, this is the only option I have models for at current]

So, any thoughts and suggestions?

Babolat360
15-04-2009, 22:30
1) First of all, why morgul blades??!! Horrendously overpriced and not exactly a game breaking item.
2) Good hero choices but IMO Khamul is the best ringwraith.
3) 1 or 2 companies of half trolls is probably a wise choice to team up with Amdur (best way to utilise his epic rampage).
4) Formation of haradrim raiders (without bows) maybe? Lances and poisoned attacks are nice.
5) Drop the king upgrade and take a pair of normal chariots - much better.
6) Make the easterling pike unit bigger - at least 4 companies

Hope this helps

Nu Fenix
15-04-2009, 23:36
I would like to answer your questions in the same order Babolat.

1. Because, as discussed in my Battle Report, I have had some issues locally with some of the largest monsters the game has to offer. There are many high Defence models out there my army has trouble dealing with, and they are likely to go towards my biggest unit due to the threat it will provide by having Amdur and The Betrayer within.

2. I have tried Khamul, and whilst he is VERY good, being one of the few models in the game to offer a save to their Formation, and rebound the hits on top, I wanted to try out the others as they don't get much love. The Betrayer's ability combines terrifically with Epic Rampage and Morgul Blades. The Undying is in there due to how prevelent I found magic to be, and even if his unit doesn't get targetted by many spells, the increased Mastery will certainly be useful.

3. If money wasn't an issue then I would love to try this, and even advised it in my review. However, Amdur + Betrayer + Morgul Blade = One very dead Formation hopefully.

4. For the 5 points extra, Serpent Riders are much better then Haradrim Raiders, although I prefer the look of Kataphrakts. Sure they don't have lances, but the higher Defence and Strength means even if they don't charge, or get counter-charged, they are still potent.

5. The increased Defence, Fight and Courage were very useful in the previous game. Plus, the Might allows me to pull off Heric actions, as making sure the chariot gets the charge is very good!

6. The only issue I have with making them bigger is needing more models, and there only being 4 in a box set :( I definately don't need any more archers [would use Haradrim archers instead if I could]

Sarah S
15-04-2009, 23:41
Good responses, great looking list.

I will be interested in seeing how useful the Undying actually is.

Avatar of the Eldar
16-04-2009, 00:12
I have tried Khamul, and whilst he is VERY good, being one of the few models in the game to offer a save to their Formation, and rebound the hits on top, I wanted to try out the others as they don't get much love...
...The only issue I have with making them bigger is needing more models, and there only being 4 in a box set :( I definately don't need any more archers [would use Haradrim archers instead if I could]

Good for you! It saddens me when everyone stampedes to "the best" character, unit, combo and I admire those who are finding ways to build lists that thoughtfully include a variety of units in a way that would make sense in Tolkein's millieu. (On that note, please, please no Grima in this list.)

That said, Khamul totally fits this list so double gold stars for not taking the path of least resistance.

I would love to add Half-Trolls as allies to my Mordor (with appropriate common support) but my hobby funds are not limitless. Like Blackroot Vale archers, Variags of Khand and Woses, they're glimpses of diversity in Tolkeins story that would add color to a game. (In the right scenario context of course.)

Given the popularity of Easterling pikes, I imagine there are 3 realistic solutions:
1- Wait for a repackaging. (Not likely as the poses are mixed on the sprues, no?)
2 - Buy a more Easterling box sets than you need to get the pike models.
3 - Convert the swordsmen (not too hard)
4 - Use the swordsmen as proxies in the back rank

Like the list and your approach overall.

Sarah S
16-04-2009, 00:16
1- Wait for a repackaging. (Not likely as the poses are mixed on the sprues, no?)

GW has the capability to re-cut the sprues and make new molds. They have done it before, and hopefully they will be doing for just about every plastic Lord of the Ring set.

I don't know if I would wait for that though...

Nu Fenix
16-04-2009, 00:27
Thanks Avatar.

Whilst the game is fresh and people are still working things out, going for the obvious combinations, as well as the tried and tested ones, I feel limits what we can learn. Hell, if in my game I find that my MVP was The Undying, I will be a very happy man! On paper he looks really good, as he can either force my opponent to overly focus his spells onto his Formation to make sure they go through, or ignore them and go for something else, potentially protecting an important unit.

Grima probably won't turn up, as I feel he works best when combined with my Spectral Hosts. Whilst one part of me enjoys playing to a theme and having a force that looks right, another part of me gets riled from losing [which happens far too often] and wants to chalk up a win every once in a while. Besides, when we had finished deployment my opponent started looking at his army, wondering where I would put the Grima I placed in the middle of the board as a warning.

Also, is that not four suggestions, not three ;)
On the spure, there are 2 pikes, 4 swords, 4 archers. If I converted some of the swordsmen, as I feel not all of them have the right pose for pikes, I would still end up with an incomplete company of something, and even more archers that I would rather not want.

If only there was some fool out there who was selling off plastic pikes and swords, and ignoring the archers, whilst keeping a reasonable price.

I intend to try and get in a game this Friday if I can, and come back with a result...

But what about suggestions for the spare 125 points in the list folks?
Babolat has suggested either Haradrim Cav, another Company of pikes, and having a second chariot. Though on my reply to suggestion 5, I should have mentioned I am tempted by another chariot, but am waiting to see if one appears at a bargain price on Ebay again [crosses fingers].

dtjunkie19
16-04-2009, 02:47
Well, after the defeat I suffered in my last game, and advise in my battle report [See here: http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193572]

Epic Heroes
Amdur - 165
The Betrayer - 125
The Undying - 125

Common Formations
6x Easterling Cohort + Morgul Blades - 305
3x Easterling Cohort + Pikes & Captain - 155
3x Easterling Kataphrakt + Captain - 140
3x Easterling Archer - 105
3x Easterling Archer - 105
Khandish Chariot + King - 150

Total - 1375

Originally I had 250 points and was debating what to do with it, but added The Undying, as being able to make Will of Iron rolls without expending Might, and also increasing in Mastery as spellcasters get within 12" of him, I felt was good to take and spread my character support across the board.

So, what would folks suggest for the remaining 125?
* Whilst I can afford a 3rd Ringwraith, I feel 4 Epic Heroes in a force this sized is risky.
* Another Formation would be my main thought, although the only models I have spare under this list are 3 Companies of Spectral hosts, who were a tempting plan for my original spare 250 points. I am thinking of 3 Companies of Easterling Cohort with a Dragon Knight for exactly 125 points. Another are a Watcher Warband, to use the Ambush ability to get into the right place.
* A tempting choice, in the spirit [excuse the pun!] of the Spectral Hosts, would be Court of the Fallen Kings, who could take on Resilience 2 Formations and scare them.
* Adding a Captain to the 6 strong Cohort Formation, as a backup hero, gives me spare Might, saving it on Amdur and The Betrayer, with the spare 75 for Grima. Yes I know he isn't that popular, but I like the idea of him, and combining him with Terror and Transfix/Visions of Woe is incredibly worth it, with the -1 Fight added icing. [Note, this is the only option I have models for at current]

So, any thoughts and suggestions?

Alrighty, well I will comment on your battle in that separate thread after this. I'm not sure whether this list is supposed to be specific to beat that misty mountains list or a general TaC list. I'm going to go with a take all comers list, as for the most part that's a good way to make the lists. With that, my thoughts:

-Morgul Blades. I know you feel they are necessary to deal with big bad monsters, however they are 125 points that could be better spent on a ringwraith. That Ringwraith gives you more magic and a point of might. I would suggest Khamul/Dark marshal.

-Change the easterling archers to haradrim archers at some point. you lose a point of defense but you gain poisoned weapons and for 5 points cheaper. Yes you also lose a point of fight but with easterling cohorts your archers should rarely ever be in combat. use the 30 points saved for my next point:

-definitely add another infantry formation to your list. the cohort is good, but take the 30 points from above and make it 4 companies.

-Personally, I would get at least 3 companies of corsair arbelasters, if not 6 to replace your archers. For 5 points less than haradrim or 10 less than Easterlings you get Strength 4 move or fire (which can be avoided if you have a captain) and defense 6 in the front arc. Amazing, these guys really mow things down. Also if you do get them it would add more points and you could probably squeeze in another company in your formations.

Now that gives you 4 more companies of infantry and another epic hero. With 3 ringwraiths you will have a strong magic phase and the likelihood of getting your important spells off is increased.

fubukii
16-04-2009, 06:01
why not just take the knight umbar is you are worried about monsters, you can steal thier F or str, now imagnie str 8 pikemen.... yes :)

Nu Fenix
16-04-2009, 09:17
Alrighty, well I will comment on your battle in that separate thread after this. I'm not sure whether this list is supposed to be specific to beat that misty mountains list or a general TaC list. I'm going to go with a take all comers list, as for the most part that's a good way to make the lists. With that, my thoughts:

-Morgul Blades. I know you feel they are necessary to deal with big bad monsters, however they are 125 points that could be better spent on a ringwraith. That Ringwraith gives you more magic and a point of might. I would suggest Khamul/Dark marshal.

-Change the easterling archers to haradrim archers at some point. you lose a point of defense but you gain poisoned weapons and for 5 points cheaper. Yes you also lose a point of fight but with easterling cohorts your archers should rarely ever be in combat. use the 30 points saved for my next point:

-definitely add another infantry formation to your list. the cohort is good, but take the 30 points from above and make it 4 companies.

-Personally, I would get at least 3 companies of corsair arbelasters, if not 6 to replace your archers. For 5 points less than haradrim or 10 less than Easterlings you get Strength 4 move or fire (which can be avoided if you have a captain) and defense 6 in the front arc. Amazing, these guys really mow things down. Also if you do get them it would add more points and you could probably squeeze in another company in your formations.

Now that gives you 4 more companies of infantry and another epic hero. With 3 ringwraiths you will have a strong magic phase and the likelihood of getting your important spells off is increased.

I'm aiming for an all comers list, but going in with the assumption there will be a Dragon, Balrog, Treebeard, Mumak or other large and devastating monster for me to deal with, which is likely at 1500 points.

I'm interested to see if after the game I wish I did spend the points on a Ringwraith, who has more flexibility then the Morgul Blades, or if the potential combo of Amdur + Betrayer + Blades will kill or horribly injure whatever stands in my way. I don't want to overload my field with Ringwraiths, and see which Fates are actually worth using, as some have potential and some just seem weak.

I would love to use Haradrim Archers, but the problem is I don't want the rest of them, so I won't buy a box set just to ignore over half of the box. If I could buy just them for a reasonable price, then I would do it.

The pikes are a similar issue, as I mentioned earlier, where I would have buy/convert more, and still end up with wasted models. Why can't GW make boxes of pure archers/pikes/swords, as I know I'd likely spend more money knowing I would be getting exactly what I want.

Arbalesters would be a very good substitute for my archers, but if I would a Company of 3, it would cost me 64 retail [25% online dicounters are wonderful!], which with my current situation isn't viable right now. For the same price, I could buy 4 infantry boxes, and end up with alot more men, and could be bought in smaller quantities whilst still being useful. Lots of saving in the future I think...

I can still fit in a third Ringwraith with my remaining points, although I would worry about being outnumbered, and if I went for another Formation I then worry I'd like a solid character to look after them.


why not just take the knight umbar is you are worried about monsters, you can steal thier F or str, now imagnie str 8 pikemen.... yes :)

But that would be the simple solution ;)

Plus, if I am fighting a similar army to my own which has lots of high Defence models but little to none in high Strength, then I still have trouble getting through their armour.

dtjunkie19
16-04-2009, 09:23
Fair enough, I will bow to the monetary concerns as they sure do take precedent. Except in my case, I just went nuts on models. i would still suggest another ringwraith or formation of swordsmen over morgul blades. Or maybe another charioteer (not king)

fubukii
16-04-2009, 19:50
felix true but you can steal a enemies FS and give it to the whole formation. steal that High fs characters fight for your while unit, even if they enemy is low str the large amount of extra attacks with surely help! (since the knights effect works on his WHOLE formation)

Nu Fenix
17-04-2009, 16:00
Unfortunately I couldn't test it today, as I was the only one at the store with a WOTR army, which was very disappointing!

I will have to try for next week instead. Although on the plus side, my Amdur arrived today :)

Nu Fenix
20-04-2009, 17:28
Well, I got to try it out for a couple of turns today at my local GW, but had to end it early due to the store closing.

I won't put up a report as we only got to play two turns, but I did manage to unleash Epic Rampage + The Betrayer + Morgul Blades as I was against a unit of Kahzad Guard led by Dain.
At first my opponent was confused by how I was rolling dice, due to seperating hits, but having to re-roll misses before I start on the following wave of attacks granted by Epic Rampage, and so on until eventually I missed.
Well, with 8 attacks base from Amdur's Company and a couple of extra dice for higher Fight and charging, we stopped counting my dice after there were enough hits to kill all three Companies.

Even without making sure it's a 4+ from Morgul Blades, the combination of Amdur + Betrayer is frighteningly good!

It may be costly, but it is disgustingly good, and something anyone who has trouble killing units should pick.

Nu Fenix
03-05-2009, 12:18
Since I felt it would be better to bump my own thread built around a similar theme, then to create a whole new thread, I'm back.

Next week I have a 1500 point game planned, against the person I first played - Misty Mountains built around Spellcasting Dragon, Stone Giant, Werewolf Pack, Druzhag, Kardush and spiders.

As such, I will be trying out the Morgul Blades on him, as well as some other things which will hopefully arrive by then.

Amdur - 165
The Betrayer - 125
Khamul [Possibly Knight of Umbar instead] - 125
6x Easterling Cohort, with Morgul Blades - 305
3x Easterling Cohort, with Pikes and Captain - 155
3x Serpent Guard - 90
2x Half Troll, with Two-Handed Weapons - 200
3x Watcher Warband, with Bows - 120
2x Chariots

Once again, Amdur and The Betrayer work with the large block of Easterlings, to maximise the Morgul Blades against the Dragon. If I can, I will also try to Black Breath it and then cause an Epic Duel with Amdur, to try and kill it off.

I can't decide between the defensive ability of Khamul, or the boosting ability of The Knight of Umbar, who either way will be joining the Half Trolls. That way they can ATD, and have a Might point [as precious as that 1 is] to avoid a 1 on the Beserk roll.

I recently bought [and waiting to be shipped] the Serpent Guard and Watchers, which is partly why I am using them.
The Serpent Guard as there to fight the lower Defence models in his army, such as Wargs, Spiders, and the Goblins/Orcs he uses. Whilst they are fragile themself, for their points they are there to hurt the enemy and take them down with them. I didn't buy any command, as I didn't want to have a Captain who won't live long, though thankfully I don't think dueling is a common tactic locally and so isn't a risk [yet!].
The Watchers are there to be a suprising force, deploying in a terrain feature behind his main line, harassing his forces and either forcing him to divert to me, or constantly lose models.

I haven't made the Chariots into Kings this time, as I wanted to try and get more things into the army this time, and see what they do without a 50% point increase. I will likely discover that the upgrade is worthwhile, though doing it for two of them in a small game might be unfeasible. I have only tried one until now, and am seeing how the pair of them do, over something such as cavalry, which I only have three companies of, and haven't had much luck with yet.

As I type this, an option for a third Ringwraith option for the Half Trolls comes to mind - The Undying. Due to him using three spellcasters previously [Dragon, Kardush, Druzhag], going for damage with Spells of Ruin, protecting the Half Trolls with free Will of Iron rolls feels appropriately useful. The extra Mastery will likely be useless due to not being able to re-roll Focus checks, but may be handy none the less.

So that is what I am currently thinking of using. My unused collection is everything in the original list, plus a recently acquired Suladan. Otherwise, new formations cannot be included, and with the looming price rise, likely will stay at this range of models [maybe another box of Kataphrakts ;)].