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QuantumO3
16-04-2009, 01:55
Hi, i need some tips on picking an army, i know what i want, and i've read the really useful guide on the armies, but i cant make decisions and need a hand. The things i want in an army is magic, cavalry and not being chaos. (missile fire would be liked, but not required) Yeah so any help anyone can give me would be greatly apprieciated.

Sorry if i've posted this thread in the wrong topic.

LKHERO
16-04-2009, 01:56
Magic and Cavalry huh?

Maybe High Elves or Dark Elves :) Now do you like good guys or bad guys? :P

QuantumO3
16-04-2009, 02:10
not really fussed about whether their good or bad

Erie Ed
16-04-2009, 02:22
High Elves sound like they would be your top choice though if you were more interested in cavalry than magic then bretonians would be a great choice

QuantumO3
16-04-2009, 02:39
i think i just want magic, because i used to really like dwarfs, but after playing with them i find their to unmaneuverable for me to use, so i want to be able to maneuver a lot more quickly, and magic just looks good.

Makarion
16-04-2009, 03:02
Empire could work as well. They tend to use a lot of bound items to supplement the magic phase, but priests in units of knights are pretty good, anyway.

LKHERO
16-04-2009, 03:05
i think i just want magic, because i used to really like dwarfs, but after playing with them i find their to unmaneuverable for me to use, so i want to be able to maneuver a lot more quickly, and magic just looks good.

Then either Dark Elves or High Elves.

Both have very mobile Magic. High Elves have more defensive magic, Dark Elves have more offensive.

QuantumO3
16-04-2009, 03:14
ok thanks everyone, lots to think about, i like the idea of empire or high elves, i dont know if i'm barking up the wrong tree hear but would vampire counts work in this sense, cos they have all the stuff, but thanks i'll think about all this.

Ertle
16-04-2009, 03:31
Vampire counts while they have a lot of magic wont be moving fast unless your can get vanhels off.

rtunian
16-04-2009, 03:46
what about tomb kings?

good shooting, check
good speed, check (assuming you are ok with swap of chariot units for cav)
lots of magic, check
easy to paint, bonus
underplayed army, +1

the biggest bone of contention, given the original post, is the lack of cavalry. instead, tomb kings use units of chariots. the difference is that chariots are useless if you don't get the charge off. as such, perhaps tk isn't very noob-friendly... but, if you are a quick learner, and can get the hang of deployment and movement quickly, tomb kings might be the way to go!

Dexter099
16-04-2009, 04:06
things i want in an army is magic, cavalry and not being chaos.

Too bad about the Chaos. Warriors are fun.

Elves do the cavalry and magic thing pretty well.

Vampire Counts have way too good magic ever since they got rid of all the special rules that kept them balanced last edition.

Their cavalry is pretty decent.

Tomb Kings work, though. They have good cavalry and chariots, and uniquely powerful magic.

MTUCache
16-04-2009, 05:20
I have a hard time not steering anyone "undecided" towards the Empire...

The list is just so versatile, capable of having a completely different army focusing on any phase of the game.

By building the list that you're interested in first (whether it's an infantry/magic army, a shooty/cav army, or whatever), and then supplementing it with a handful of "alternate" units and characters, you can essentially have four or five completely different 2000+ point armies by only owning about 3000 points worth of models. Also, if you find that you're willing to make the commitment into the army it's quite easy to focus your selections into a horde style army, so you're not stuck with a handful of 300+ point units and the same 50-60 models all the time.

The only other army that comes close to that is DE, which are capable of being strong in any phase, but require a bit of an acquired taste in fluff and/or flavor. HE are similar, but offer less in the "horde" department, being an essentially elite army.

To me, those are the three most versatile armies in WHFB. All the other armies either require a commitment to a completely different type of playstyle (LZ/OK/TK/VC), are very oriented towards elite/horde armies (HE/Brets/O&G), or are built around completely sacrificing at least one phase of the game (WoC/Dwarves/Brets).

Add to that the army is essentially a human army, as well as being on the "good" side (more or less), and it feels like a good starting point into the fantasy realm. Sprinkle in the option to use the army in just about any other system (including historical wargaming, which I'm also into), and you really can't get a better bang for your buck.

Desalbert
16-04-2009, 05:31
I have a hard time not steering anyone "undecided" towards the Empire...

The list is just so versatile, capable of having a completely different army focusing on any phase of the game.

By building the list that you're interested in first (whether it's an infantry/magic army, a shooty/cav army, or whatever), and then supplementing it with a handful of "alternate" units and characters, you can essentially have four or five completely different 2000+ point armies by only owning about 3000 points worth of models. Also, if you find that you're willing to make the commitment into the army it's quite easy to focus your selections into a horde style army, so you're not stuck with a handful of 300+ point units and the same 50-60 models all the time.

The only other army that comes close to that is DE, which are capable of being strong in any phase, but require a bit of an acquired taste in fluff and/or flavor.

To me, those are the three most versatile armies in WHFB. All the other armies either require a commitment to a completely different type of playstyle (LZ/OK/TK/VC), are very oriented towards elite/horde armies (HE/Brets/O&G), or are built around completely sacrificing at least one phase of the game (WoC/Dwarves/Brets).

Add to that the army is essentially a human army, as well as being on the "good" side (more or less), and it feels like a good starting point into the fantasy realm. Sprinkle in the option to use the army in just about any other system (including historical wargaming, which I'm also into), and you really can't get a better bang for your buck.


I just wanted to tip my hat to these suggestions and army descriptions; I'm newer myself, and getting back into understanding the armies and all, but for my money, this fellow seems spot on and quite informative.

Props!

-Des

MTUCache
16-04-2009, 05:45
Also... I wanted to note this as well...

In terms of learning the game of WHFB, I think there's a lot to be said about choosing an army that has a lot of weaknesses as well. By learning to minimize them and compensate for them, you become a better general later, no matter which army (or how many) you end up playing.

I see way too many kids these days jumping right into the hardest, most elite, or most forgiving armies, because they're competitive and easy to play. But they don't advance anywhere in the game, it becomes an exercise in dice rolling essentially. They become dumbed-down by their armies of Immune-to-Psych units, high-leadership units, 2+AS cav units, or rock-hard characters, and when they pick a different army they struggle mightily with it because they've never had to deal with things like psychology or low-AS before.

So... if you're new to WHFB (which I'm not sure you are), I'd certainly avoid armies like VC, DoC, TK (or even HE/DE/WE) because they are inherently "advanced" armies. They may not take much to make hard (or even cheesy), but they assume you've already mastered the basics of psychology and such and instead focus on magic and/or manueverability.

Empire or O&G are usually my first suggestions when starting out.... you'll learn more in your first dozen games than many other new players will in a year. After you figure out your first army all the rest will come to you much easier.

Kerill
16-04-2009, 06:16
I agree with empire- always one of the best first armies with any toy you could want, any magic lore from the brb and almost every psych effect can be included in the army.

Keller
16-04-2009, 13:46
I have a hard time not steering anyone "undecided" towards the Empire...

The list is just so versatile, capable of having a completely different army focusing on any phase of the game.

By building the list that you're interested in first (whether it's an infantry/magic army, a shooty/cav army, or whatever), and then supplementing it with a handful of "alternate" units and characters, you can essentially have four or five completely different 2000+ point armies by only owning about 3000 points worth of models. Also, if you find that you're willing to make the commitment into the army it's quite easy to focus your selections into a horde style army, so you're not stuck with a handful of 300+ point units and the same 50-60 models all the time.

The only other army that comes close to that is DE, which are capable of being strong in any phase, but require a bit of an acquired taste in fluff and/or flavor. HE are similar, but offer less in the "horde" department, being an essentially elite army.

To me, those are the three most versatile armies in WHFB. All the other armies either require a commitment to a completely different type of playstyle (LZ/OK/TK/VC), are very oriented towards elite/horde armies (HE/Brets/O&G), or are built around completely sacrificing at least one phase of the game (WoC/Dwarves/Brets).

Add to that the army is essentially a human army, as well as being on the "good" side (more or less), and it feels like a good starting point into the fantasy realm. Sprinkle in the option to use the army in just about any other system (including historical wargaming, which I'm also into), and you really can't get a better bang for your buck.
MTU is pretty much spot-on here. Empire was my first army; I quickly learned the game with them and got a very good understanding of all phases, including how to best utilize and even exploit them verses various opponents.

Ultimately, though, I wouldn't advise starting any army you aren't drawn to. Warhammer is a very expensive hobby, and even more so time wise. Empire can require a very large number of models (I regularly have 200+ on the table) and as such, can be very expensive to collect. Its not worth the investment just to decide you don't really like the feel of basic-humans with more or less nuetral alignment. Its best, IMO, to pick what ever army you are most interested in for models/background. While playstyle is important, you'll spend far more time with your army off of the battleground than on.


Vampire counts while they have a lot of magic wont be moving fast unless your can get vanhels off. VC units are just as fast as any other race, provided you have a vampire nearly by enable them to march. With Vanhel's extra movement, you just go that much faster. The only downside in the movement phases is that you can't flee.

RaZeR
16-04-2009, 13:53
Nobody's really suggested them so far, but the first army that sprang to my mind was Wood Elves... Great cavalry in wild riders/glade riders, lots of other fast stuff as well, giving you a lot of variation in your 'fast, maneuverable' idea. Seem to have some decent magic options as well, without being overpowered, and some fun magic items.

As regards the 'learning to play the whole game' argument goes, I think they're alright for that. Better than some others infact, for example the magic lore isn't just point-and-click, it requires tactics and careful use, etc.

The only problem might be the slight lack of variability in terms of gameplay, with certain magic items always appearing, certain combo's seemingly essential, etc. I dont know the full details though as I'm a WoC player :P

bigunns
16-04-2009, 16:08
um i gotta give my two cents on this one bc no one has isted them when they are really magic heavy and manuverably even tho i dont think they have chariots but skaven move quick and pretty heavy handed with magic
plague is an evil thing

id say OnG but they kinda hurt to use bc of animosity... but have sum quick cav units...

QuantumO3
16-04-2009, 20:46
I'm not sure that i'm drawn particularly to any army, i was drawn to the dwarves, but the more i look at their rules i can see how inflexible they are. Also i'm new to the game, i would like an army that can participate in every phase, the empire army sounds good, but then a lot of models is gonna cost a lot, and since i'm poor :( (as in not able to buy battalions every other week) i think that might hurt me a lot. But all in all i think that all of you suggestions are very good. I think i need to decide if i want a lot of models or a few really elite models.

Captain Cortez
16-04-2009, 20:58
If your short on cash, my army of choice is Ogre Kingdoms. A battle force is about 1500pts, if I remember.

Ogres is an army that does take some time to master, but they are very fun to play and have lots of character. Did I I mention they are easy to paint.

MTUCache
17-04-2009, 00:27
I'm not sure that i'm drawn particularly to any army, i was drawn to the dwarves, but the more i look at their rules i can see how inflexible they are. Also i'm new to the game, i would like an army that can participate in every phase, the empire army sounds good, but then a lot of models is gonna cost a lot, and since i'm poor :( (as in not able to buy battalions every other week) i think that might hurt me a lot. But all in all i think that all of you suggestions are very good. I think i need to decide if i want a lot of models or a few really elite models.

Being an almost all-plastic army makes Empire a lot cheaper than you might think...

Stick to a magic-heavy and cav-oriented list (with just one large block of infantry), and you'd be able to field 2000 points with well under $300 in purchases. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of only 50 models if you min/max it all the way... closer to 80 if you're not completely strapped for cash.

Then you can gradually build those other two units of infantry slowly...

QuantumO3
17-04-2009, 00:29
that sounds pretty good, thanks :)

Papa JJ
17-04-2009, 04:57
I agree with the previous recommendations of Empire for a magic and cavalry themed army. Units of Empire knights are iconic in Warhammer and as a core unit can make up a large part of your army. With Pistoliers, Outriders, and Steam Tanks you can field an essentially all mounted army... and soon in plastic too! I think it would be fitting of this theme to use the Balthasar Gelt model as your general (either as the named character or as a Wizard Lord mounted on a pegasus). There are also numerous other good choices for your Empire heroes so that you can tailor this most personal section of your army list to your own tastes.

My other suggestion would be High Elves if cost is a deciding factor. Since Silver Helms are a Special choice you'll have to fill at least the minimum number of core units with infantry. If you wanted mainly cavalry but not to the complete exclusion of basic infantry then High Elves might be a better choice. Empire foot soldiers are so cheap in terms of points, but they're sold in boxes of 10 for $22 USD rather than 16 elves for $35 so therefore you'll end up spending more to have the same amount of points worth of infantry. Such a mounted High Elf army can also make great use of the plastic Chariot kit for those extra Special slots of which High Elf generals get to make use.