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Chris_Tzeentch
17-04-2009, 09:00
Seeing as Angmar is possibly the most difficult faction to play in WotR, I thought it would be a good idea to have a tactica here.

Llew
17-04-2009, 17:14
They're not one of the factions that has grabbed my attention yet. (Only because I don't really have miniatures for that faction at this moment.)

Perhaps a good way to start off would be a post describing the challenges of this particular faction?

Chris_Tzeentch
17-04-2009, 19:07
The biggest problem with the Angmar list is the sheer cost of our troops. With the exception of Orcs, practically all the spirits cost a lot of points.

The Angmar has access to quite a few good characters, and we can take more through our ally contingent.

I myself use the Necromancer of Dol Guldur and Grima Wormtongue.

Da Black Gobbo
18-04-2009, 00:40
Angmar is indeed, my evil choice, i don't think is that difficult to use, maybe it needs a bit more planification than just throw in 1 troll chief and 4 cave trolls.

What i have in mind is to use terror as my army's base, to be efficent with spirit units (those that wound against leadership and not against defense) i think there are a few tricks that may wreck havoc: There is a Ring Wraith that denies enemy hero's leadership atribute in 12' this coupled with the fate that modifies with a -1 to all enemy units in 6' may be quite devastating, add wormtongue for more fun.

Also Gulavhar and Burdhur are 2 awesome beasts able to have whole units for lunch. And shades are soo great against those super elves with combat 6-7 that suddenly becomes 2 ^^, Angmar is the naughty faction!

Axis
18-04-2009, 01:51
The biggest problem with the Angmar list is the sheer cost of our troops. With the exception of Orcs, practically all the spirits cost a lot of points.

The Angmar has access to quite a few good characters, and we can take more through our ally contingent.

I myself use the Necromancer of Dol Guldur and Grima Wormtongue.

Orcs (as you mentioned) and barbarians are quite cheap. Personally, i think it is a mistake to load up too much on spirits. I think you need a good core of orcs and barbarians with some spirits to be the heavy hitters.

The weakness of Angmar imo is it has no good cavalry, riders of the dead are too pricey. However, you can easily fix that with some allied warg riders.

JHK
18-04-2009, 16:13
I bought a few boxes of army of the Dead and a Burhdur blister as a way to start with Angmar and I have been stuck a little trying to figure out a way to expand it. I agree that filling in a larger rank and file center is crucial to making the Spirits function as the "hammer".
That said, I like the idea of having more of a "Carn Dum" list rather than a orc centered one, but the lack of a viable (or affordable) set of figures for them makes it a daunting task. The best solution I had for Carn Dum is to paint Morannon Orcs as if they were humans (might need a few head swaps on some of them).
If anyone was to write a tactica about Angmar, it would have to include a lengthy section on the use of allies as a way to both shore up the list and to focus its theme.
Recently I have been pondering what an Angmar list with a Balrog would be like. I have been re-reading the Silmarillion, so the ancient evils have been on my mind. I know its a huge point sink, but it might make for an interesting "horror of the past" themed army. It basically precludes any other allies, so you are left to the Angmar list for everything else- making spirit cavalry your main choice for flanking. Does this seem like a decent idea?

The Adept
18-04-2009, 19:53
I play Uruk based Isenguard, but had some Riders of Rohan spare. I painted them as ghosts, and I'm gonna use them as a fast, armour ignoring, terrain busting hammer unit. The uruk warbands (with there defence 7) are a great anvil, and I think the ghost riders will be a good hammer because of their spirit walk.

Billpete002
18-04-2009, 20:32
Actually I think loading up on spirits is a good thing - you use a 9x orc formation as a screen with the dark marshal or the tainted in it march them up the center with the spirits behind it - if you get into combat or close enough you let the spirits run through to the back of their lines and the orcs hit them from the front. Couple this with Dismay -1 spells, "There Shall Be No Dawn", and Specters/Shades you can control combats very efficiently.

The Necromancer is also a very nice addition or Castellans. - The object of Angmar is to use combos, but even more so than other armies you want to utilize Buff/Debuff and really micromanage the battlefield. If you load up on barbarians and orcs I really think you are loosing the whole grasp of the army - mine as well just play Mordor and take spirit allies!

Angmar is only tough against Elves (they all cause terror as well) AND dwarfs (high courage) - but Rohan or Gondor should be cake walks unless your 'friend' chose to field legolas/aragorn/dain combo for some sorta auto-win :S

Sarah S
18-04-2009, 23:07
I think Angmar sucks because they were originally intended to be nothing more than an ally force. On the page that lists the factions, it mentions how two of them can only be taken as allies.

It kind of makes sense because Angmar just doesn't have what it takes to be a full army... Hell, I'd rather have Hobbits than most of the Angmar troops.

Reinholt
18-04-2009, 23:53
What I have been having success with is thus:

1 - I don't use Ghostly Legion (the infantry variety); with the Tainted, they hit quite hard against many formations, but they are only defense 5, and thus often get hit hard back. I don't feel like paying 60 points to allow my opponent to rail my troops with his 35 point guys, even if I railed his in return.

2 - I do use Ghostly Riders (the cavalry variety); with the Tainted, they hit quite hard before infantry, and thus, I use them to exterminate infantry formations. They are also extremely fast, considering they move 12" and ignore terrain. These guys have been very effective for me, but you have to choose their targets carefully.

3 - The one area I see Ghostly Legion being strong in is monster elimination; most monsters do not have great courage compared to their defense, and even after taking a few hits, the Ghostly Legion would lay an unholy (pun intended) beatdown on an Ent, Eagle, or the like. However, I'm not sure they are points effective solely in this role.

4 - Barrow Wights are terrifying to cavalry. If they don't wipe them out, they are in real danger.

5 - I have found the Angmar orcs to be decent, and the Barbarians to be absolutely amazing. To make my barbarians, I take the Rohan warriors, cut the nubs for the Rohan shields, use the shields from Army of the Dead guys instead (they don't need them, they are spirits and shields don't impact their defense anyways - damned dead people, think they can carry around whatever they want), and then shave off all the Rohan insignias on the helms (bringing them down to flat skullcaps), as well as making sure to paint them all black-haired and dirtied (similar to Dunlendings).

Downside: you end up with extra bowmen you have no real use for.
Upside: trade them to a Rohan player.

6 - I have found one of the greatest additions you can make to your force is a way to take on cavalry yourself. Large units of orcs and barbarians can do it (though are not ideal), especially with a Ringwraith, as even if you get charged, so what? Flanked is another story, but that's a matter of positioning.

To forestall this eventuality, I recommend some combination of the following:

1 - A lot of your own cavalry in the form of allies, probably Warg Riders or Wargs for point efficiency and background reasons when I use them.

2 - Pikemen (Angmar has no real history working with the Uruk-Hai, but they are strongly affiliated with the Witch King and Mordor... so I might grab some easterling pikes as allies)

3 - Flying Monsters (Gulavhar, or perhaps a Nazghul on a Fellbeast)

So far, I've yet to lose with Angmar, but every single game I have played has been close. They have to grind out their wins.

JHK
19-04-2009, 01:52
I think Angmar sucks because they were originally intended to be nothing more than an ally force. On the page that lists the factions, it mentions how two of them can only be taken as allies.


Not really, It only says that about the Forgotten Realms. What it does say is that two of the factions are "not so much organized groups, but largely unaligned forces that can sometimes be persuaded to join the fray...". I actually think that this description more accurately describes the varied forces of the Misty Mountains list, with its inclusion of dragons, spiders, storm giants and such.


To make my barbarians, I take the Rohan warriors, cut the nubs for the Rohan shields, use the shields from Army of the Dead guys instead (they don't need them, they are spirits and shields don't impact their defense anyways - damned dead people, think they can carry around whatever they want), and then shave off all the Rohan insignias on the helms (bringing them down to flat skullcaps), as well as making sure to paint them all black-haired and dirtied (similar to Dunlendings).

Downside: you end up with extra bowmen you have no real use for.
Upside: trade them to a Rohan player.


This is brilliant. I just tried it with the Foot warriors that came with my "valiant rohirrim" box that I have never used, since my Rohan force is all mounted. It works great- thanks for the tip. I am putting a few leftover ent-twigs on the leaders helm to look like antlers.

Quannum
20-04-2009, 13:49
I see a lot of problems with the Angmar list. Many players are drawn to the list because, let's face it, the Army of the Dead models are incredible and when painted well, look stunning. But it's not got a lot going for it other than the aesthetics. I thought I'd throw in a couple of (negative) observations having played with and against them thus far to aid us in building a tactica:

1) Ghostly Legion and Ghostly Riders are expensive, glass cannons - very good and some things but with exploitable weaknesses that outweigh their positives.

2) People often praise their ability to run through a enemy formation, turn around and rear charge them. While the rules say this is possible, it is very hard to achieve mathematically. For example, say a single company of Ghostly Legion (GL) are directly opposed and 9" away from a single company of Dwarves. The GL player moves a full 8" towards them. He then rolls his "At the double" which must be done "after it has completed its move" (p64 of the WOTRRB). But, as the Dwarves are now within 6", the GL's movement is halved to 4" which is not enough to take the whole company through the Dwarves (as it must do - p.63). The awesome Spirit Walk rule seems to have been confounded by other universal game rules. Which brings me onto the next point...

3) The only formation able to easily achieve this technique isn't even in the Angmar list, it's in Gondor - The Court of the Dead King - who have the ability to Shadowstride on a 4+.

I don't mean to bash mindlessly at a list, I for one want to find out how to use Angmar properly. But I think as it stands, people can't rely on the Ghostly Legions as much as they want or deserve to. Orcs seem the way to go down the centre of the battlefield. To compensate for the above problems, I think Angmar players need to be masters of the flanks and fielding units like Buhrdur (an absolute beast for the points cost), Gulavhar and Shades go some of the way in aiding this.

Q

Hope this has helped shed some light on the downsides of the list. Lets get a tactica up and running.

ThrowN
20-04-2009, 16:17
A bit Off-topic, but those someone mind to post pics of his Rohan-to-barbarian-conversions? Sounds great...

Reinholt
20-04-2009, 17:14
Quannum,

I agree - my best Angmar lists contain no Ghostly Legion. I think the Ghostly Riders, with the longer move (they can plausibly charge from behind in some situations, but can almost always flank) and ability to strike first against infantry, can be quite good if used properly. The foot troops, however, are uninspiring at best.

However...

Average to Good: Orcs, Shades, Werewolves (I would like them more if I could have more than one company, as they are infantry butchers)

Great: Barbarians, Buhrdur, Gulavhar, Court of the Fallen King (only need one formation, as I use them to kill monsters and cav)

The trick is, ultimately, that the worst unit in the list is also the first unit in the list. If you can get away from Ghostly legion and are willing to use your allies contingent well, the list can play just fine. You just can't go nuts with 60 point underpowered infantry.

JHK
20-04-2009, 19:23
A bit Off-topic, but those someone mind to post pics of his Rohan-to-barbarian-conversions? Sounds great...

Finished my first one last night- will post a pic. It looks convincing. I am not the greatest painter, and my treatment of WOTR figs is definitely based on step reduction, but I have to say that it looks sufficiently different from Rohan to do the job!

Quannum
20-04-2009, 20:39
Quannum,

I agree - my best Angmar lists contain no Ghostly Legion. I think the Ghostly Riders, with the longer move (they can plausibly charge from behind in some situations, but can almost always flank) and ability to strike first against infantry, can be quite good if used properly. The foot troops, however, are uninspiring at best.

However...

Average to Good: Orcs, Shades, Werewolves (I would like them more if I could have more than one company, as they are infantry butchers)

Great: Barbarians, Buhrdur, Gulavhar, Court of the Fallen King (only need one formation, as I use them to kill monsters and cav)

The trick is, ultimately, that the worst unit in the list is also the first unit in the list. If you can get away from Ghostly legion and are willing to use your allies contingent well, the list can play just fine. You just can't go nuts with 60 point underpowered infantry.

Agreed 100%.

You're right, feasibly Ghostly Riders can get the rear charge tactic off - its just a shame the Legion 95% of the time cannot.

Chris_Tzeentch
20-04-2009, 21:10
Finished my first one last night- will post a pic. It looks convincing. I am not the greatest painter, and my treatment of WOTR figs is definitely based on step reduction, but I have to say that it looks sufficiently different from Rohan to do the job!

Looking forward to seeing these.

unheilig
22-04-2009, 05:48
let's pretend, just for a minute, that someone wanted to play angmar BECAUSE of the spirits.

perhaps someone holds a gun to your head and says " you MUST make an army heavily featuring spirits including ghostly legion".

any thoughts on how not to lose every game?

Sarah S
22-04-2009, 06:01
Go nuts on things that hurt enemy Courage and hope your enemies don't pass a single Terror test all game?

If I were to make a list of things to include:
Lots of Dismay magic - so Ringwraiths
The Tainted - almost necessary
Your choice of There Will be no Dawn, Evil Reputation or Watcher in the Shadows
Definitely some Shades

From there, season to taste, but trying not to take too many formations, but make them huge - that way the courage destroying abilities are easier to stack up.

Faeslayer
22-04-2009, 06:23
My two cents:

Spirit grasp is really, really nice.

Be ready to have a much smaller army than the enemy (welcome to my world!).

I think you'll be fine, though you may need to use allies as hero vehicles at some point. The only real nuisance I see with going spirits only is that blasted We Stand Alone thing. Though you're taking morgul knights, which would be a great place to stick a Nazgul, I think.

Chris_Tzeentch
22-04-2009, 17:55
Go nuts on things that hurt enemy Courage and hope your enemies don't pass a single Terror test all game?

If I were to make a list of things to include:
Lots of Dismay magic - so Ringwraiths
The Tainted - almost necessary
Your choice of There Will be no Dawn, Evil Reputation or Watcher in the Shadows
Definitely some Shades

From there, season to taste, but trying not to take too many formations, but make them huge - that way the courage destroying abilities are easier to stack up.

Also think about the Necromancer of Dol Guldur.

Cool magic and tons of synnergy with spirits.

JHK
23-04-2009, 04:42
Looking forward to seeing these.

Here's an image (http://fieldfaring.org/images/other/carn-dum-1.jpg) (or two (http://fieldfaring.org/images/other/carn-dum-2.jpg)) of one of the Men of Carn Dum that I finished.

Quannum
23-04-2009, 11:35
Here's an image (http://fieldfaring.org/images/other/carn-dum-1.jpg) (or two (http://fieldfaring.org/images/other/carn-dum-2.jpg)) of one of the Men of Carn Dum that I finished.

They look great. Loved the muted colour scheme!

Chris_Tzeentch
23-04-2009, 22:20
They look great. Loved the muted colour scheme!

Agreed. I might get some myself!

Chris_Tzeentch
28-04-2009, 12:11
I played my first 1500 point game against an Isengard list, and narrowly lost on victory points. A few things to note really :-

Magic does have its uses, but its a bit pointless to go overboard. If you enemy has plenty of heroes and might points, they can negate the really nasty spells on a 4+.

Trying to play the mass courage reducing terror card doesnt really work either. I had Uruk Hai passing courage tests and charging spirits with the greatest of ease.

The Ghostly Legion and Ghostly Riders were again dissappointing. Way too expensive for the cost.

Reinholt
28-04-2009, 16:41
Based on my experience with spirits so far:

1 - The Tainted is absolutely essential.

2 - They are far more dangerous in cavalry form than infantry form, as then you can use them to butcher units before they strike.

3 - Fantastic against monsters, especially Barrow Wights.

4 - You need large blocks of regular troops first, then spirit second, not the other way around.

Chris_Tzeentch
28-04-2009, 21:04
I think they made a mistake with the cost of the Ghostly legion. Army of the Dead are exactly the same yet are half the cost.

Also the Angmar Orcs are priced incorrectly compared to Mordor Orcs (the command crew are more expensive yet they are exactly the same).

Something isnt quite right there.

Titivillus
28-04-2009, 21:22
Army of the Dead are exactly the same yet are half the cost.

Army of the Dead are the same price (pg. 99). Strangely enough, though, they do appear to have a shoot value of 4+, despite not having missile weapons in their wargear. Otherwise the stats are the same.

Additional companies for the Court of the Dead King are half the price of Angmar's spirits, though, and have exactly the same stats (no shoot value). Go figure.

Billpete002
28-04-2009, 21:40
I think its all incentive based - Angmar is suppose to have a much smaller force than the hordes that Mordor or Misty has.

I think I see the logic in having Carn barbarians and orcs for "staying power" and then a few spirits to get rid of monsters/characters/cavalry

though it is a shame that it is 60 points for ghosts and the same price for riders - you'd think with the charge bonus and movement bonus cavalry would be 60 and foot would be 30 (as per the court of the dead king)

ThrowN
28-04-2009, 21:57
[QUOTE=Chris_Tzeentch;3520477

Also the Angmar Orcs are priced incorrectly compared to Mordor Orcs (the command crew are more expensive yet they are exactly the same).

Something isnt quite right there.[/QUOTE]
I'm very sure this will get an FAQ, the german book gives the same point costs for all of the 3 generic orc entries (Mordor,Isengart,Angmar).

Hellfury
28-04-2009, 22:10
For my part, I am in love with three things mostly as the core of my army.

Spectral hosts (led by the tainted preffeably.)
The tainted.
Men of carn dum.

I use the ghostly legion/army of the dead plastics for my spectral hosts. Sap strength is just deadly when you throw grima and the tainted around the board. It seems odd but I have been getting much better economy from spectral hosts than ghostly legion, especially against elves and dwarves.
I use warlord games celt barabarians for my men of carn dum.
http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/28mm-celts-30-c.asp
The scale is perfect and most importantly, they are as cheap as other LotR plastics. it seriously is a very good plastic set even though they lack the simplicity of assembly that LotR plastics have if you like modelling brevity.

Add in some nice allies from misty moutains for the fluff (you gotta have doggies etc. and other moutain allies, a good sourcebook for background would be the Angmar book for MERPS if you can find a copy. Compulsory reading)

Chris_Tzeentch
29-04-2009, 07:08
Additional companies for the Court of the Dead King are half the price of Angmar's spirits, though, and have exactly the same stats (no shoot value). Go figure.

That is the cost which I am referring to. Why should they be half the cost? It makes little sense to me.

Chris_Tzeentch
29-04-2009, 12:13
I use the ghostly legion/army of the dead plastics for my spectral hosts. Sap strength is just deadly when you throw grima and the tainted around the board. It seems odd but I have been getting much better economy from spectral hosts than ghostly legion, especially against elves and dwarves.
I use warlord games celt barabarians for my men of carn dum.
http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/28mm-celts-30-c.asp
The scale is perfect and most importantly, they are as cheap as other LotR plastics. it seriously is a very good plastic set even though they lack the simplicity of assembly that LotR plastics have if you like modelling brevity.

Add in some nice allies from misty moutains for the fluff (you gotta have doggies etc. and other moutain allies, a good sourcebook for background would be the Angmar book for MERPS if you can find a copy. Compulsory reading)

Great idea! I might get myself some of them.

Regarding the Angmar book, is this the one you are referring to?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/10961720/Angmar-Land-of-the-WitchKing

Hellfury
30-04-2009, 18:19
Yes, that is the very same book. Great find.

Shame about the resoultion and general poor quality of those pages. Perhaps I should scan my pristine copy and upload it to scribd.

Regardless, it is a shame that many of the elements found in that book are not part of the Angmar list proper. Things like the ability to take wolves/wargs, trolls, tracker units (rnagers of middle earth), dragons, etc. It would be an interesting list.

Fortunately there is the allies rule which can allow you to mimic this to some degree, or more if your opponents are cool with you making such a fluffy army.

huntroll
02-05-2009, 22:55
Would an Angmar army without ghosts work? The Barbarians form the core of the army, the orcs are meat shields, Gulavahr and Buhrdur do what they usually do. I can take some Ringwraiths and Trolls as allies, just like Carn Dum Barbarians on horses... I mean, Dunedling horsemen. Opinions?

Nu Fenix
02-05-2009, 23:07
I would say it can work, but then you are ignoring a major part of the army which would make me wonder why not play something else.

Why not be an Isengard army without Uruk-hai that uses Isengard Orcs and Dunlending Huscarls, Wild Men of Dunland and Dunlending Horsemen, with Thrydan Wolfsbane as your leader?
Or a Fallen Realm army with a large variety of men, whilst having acces to Orcs and other monsters as allies?
Or a Mordor army as you want Orcs, Trolls and Ringwraiths anyway, as they might end up costing more then using Angmar as allies would.

Whilst the variety of spirits are expensive, and as such hard to use in a small army, they are a critical theme of the army in my mind. Even if it's just using a single formation, such as a Shade, Werewolf Pack or Court of Fallen Kings, which whilst being 100-120 points, are something you only need one of, and in a 1000 point army still leave up to 900 points left.

huntroll
02-05-2009, 23:14
I would say it can work, but then you are ignoring a major part of the army which would make me wonder why not play something else.

Why not be an Isengard army without Uruk-hai that uses Isengard Orcs and Dunlending Huscarls, Wild Men of Dunland and Dunlending Horsemen, with Thrydan Wolfsbane as your leader?
Or a Fallen Realm army with a large variety of men, whilst having acces to Orcs and other monsters as allies?
Or a Mordor army as you want Orcs, Trolls and Ringwraiths anyway, as they might end up costing more then using Angmar as allies would.

Whilst the variety of spirits are expensive, and as such hard to use in a small army, they are a critical theme of the army in my mind. Even if it's just using a single formation, such as a Shade, Werewolf Pack or Court of Fallen Kings, which whilst being 100-120 points, are something you only need one of, and in a 1000 point army still leave up to 900 points left.
Yep, you're right, I was just curious if anyone tried this. Especially against players who like to tailor their lists against you... :D

Math Mathonwy
05-05-2009, 12:07
Regarding the Angmar book, is this the one you are referring to?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/10961720/Angmar-Land-of-the-WitchKing
There is a revised edition of that book called simply Angmar. It has all the stuff from that book and quite a bit of extra as well (it's twice as long).

Hoster
06-05-2009, 00:52
My friend's 3 point plan to victory with spirits:

1. Give away priority.
2. Move spirit cavalry at the double right through the enemy formation and turn around to face their rear.
3. Watch opponent FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU

YMMV

Nu Fenix
06-05-2009, 00:59
And if your opponent doesn't make it so you can get through them because there is no room?

Or has Floi and turns off Spirit Walk every turn on them, preventing that from happening?

Reinholt
06-05-2009, 05:23
The mechanics of moving actually conspire against that being a reliable tactic against smart opponents.

I play with Ghostly Riders, and I've been able to pull it off several times. The situations in which it works well:

- Facing down long, thin formations (so you can leap right over them).

- Facing down formations that are simply small and thus cannot form deep ranks.

- Facing opponents who let your cavalry sneak around the flank and hook around their units.

The fundamental problem, in other situations, is this:

1 - I have to move close enough that my second move will take me through you.

2 - If I am not within 6" at this point (say, just outside of it), I have to close the 6" between us and then pass through you, either straight on or at an angle, in order to end up behind you. This is not possible against something like a 3 x 3 formation.

3 - If I am within 6", my movement is halved, and this is not happening.

So it's a neat trick, but highly impractical and hard to pull off in all situations. Flank charges, on the other hand, as you can use terrain to block them and then move through it easily yourself, are very easy to pull off with Ghostly Riders.

I'm a fan of the unit, especially when used in tandem with others to provide a sucker punch. I like them better than the infantry, which really can't do the "run behind" trick and don't have the benefit of striking first to wipe out large infantry blocks.

moar barmu
12-05-2009, 01:51
Can some do a detailed unit by unit synopsis of this faction? It would help us WOTR rookies tremendously, Thanks.

spiderman5z
04-07-2010, 09:13
the key to winning with pure ghosts is taking on the units one by one use RW magic/grima to lower courage do a transfix or pall of night then hit him on all sides with spectres, ghostly legion, and ghostly cav. Call a heroic fight off of one of the captains. With ur enemies C super low theyre probably failing terror and sap strength so not many of ur guys are gonna die. Then next turn... run away!! and get into position for the next strike... The shades help keep your tainted safe from duels in general and barrow wights are nice D7 walls of ghostly awesomeness. Werewolves are fun too especially if u position the shade to only hit ur enemy/use the battlehost.

gork or maybe mork
04-07-2010, 18:34
On a side note, the faq says that the additional companies in court of the dead king are in fact 60 pts each, and not 30 pts. GW admitted a mistake. YAY!

Mars
20-09-2010, 15:23
some feedback from my last game (Mordor + Angmar vs Isengard + Easterlings):

- Shade is awesome! I had this guy sitting in my front line, nullifying both Lurtz and Amdur, which would also work great against those Good duelling monsters.

- Gulavhar is a real beast :D. I had him sitting behind my front line for the first half, waiting for an opening. In hind sight I should have sent him up the flank with my cavalry, where his mobility, Epic Strike and especially free Heroic Fight would have been a huge advantage, while my Morgul Knights form a though and mobile screen from enemy shooting and magic.
As it went he finally counter-attacked Amdur's unit in the flank (using his mobility to stay out of Shade range :evilgrin: ), slaughtering the unit with ease and than systematically rolling up the enemy line. In this game the enemy had no magic and limited firepower, but I feel that in larger games his speed, mobility and hitting power makes him worth his high point cost.

- Ghostly Riders: these guys made for a great combination supporting my Morgul Knights. Between them they had plenty of Terror, solid armour, plenty of might, speed, mobility, both mundane and ghostly strength, as well as the ability to pincer move enemy units for a real squish-fest.

- Warband of Carn-Dm: I used two formations of two companies, no heroes. Their low Courage was a real problem to recover from lost fights, but their D6 ment they could hold their ground against Easterlings, while on the charge they clearly had the upper hand. An interesting unit if supported by Epic leadership, but I figure their Berserk rule means they both need a hero and work best in small formations at the same time. Where my Morannon Orcs can defeat the enemy by grinding it out, I feel the Barbarians need that charge to make a real impression.