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backslide
17-04-2009, 13:09
well rocked up to a mates place for our first game of WOTR

I used the following:

Winged Nazgul
the tainted

Ringwraith
Karmal the easterling

Mordor Orc warband
6 companys
shields
standard, captian, muso

Mordor Orc warband
3 companys
2 handed weapons

warg riders
2 companys

warg riders
2 companys

Mordor troll

Morgul Stalkers
1 company

Grishnaks Trackers
3 companys

1005

we manged to get a good handle on the rules, he was using dwarfs he had 4 1 company formations and 2 2 company formations and the kings champion

we soon discovered just how fragile 1 compnay formations are, when his one company of elite guards where broken first turn by some magic and a swoop attack by the tainted

so thoughts:

winged Nazgul, brutal vs infantry in the rear, little can be done to avoid it but must avoid heroic duels! tainted was great making the coruage on his bit units that little bit lower, suspect shooting will be an issue but great fun, thinking I might have to use 2, sprit grasp is nasty on them!

Karmal, forgot to use his special rule!

orcs, unsure about the high costs of full comand standards esp, captains handy though, the 3 company unit with no command actually killed Gimli, though where destroyed in the process, cheap and expendable very handy unit

warg riders, they where for blocking and being a threat they did the job perfectly might try to get them to 3 companys and or get shields, they did as expected

troll, was a last minute add in since I don't own one, was deadly!

stalkers, ate some archers a good 35 points of ammusment

Grishnaks Trackers, I ambushed there guys in my own lines! left a forest on my flank empty when he advanced they jumped out and used grishnaks special ablity to make theor opening shots count, I was pleased with them for the points, esp as they can have 3 rounds of shooting at shoot 2 so nifty for 135 points

so for 1500 I plan to use this, only think I need to buy is the troll:

Winged Nazgul
the tainted

Winged Nazgul
the betrayer

Ringwraith
Karmal the easterling

Mordor Orc warband
6 companys
shields
captian

Mordor Orc warband
3 companys
2 handed weapons

warg riders
3 companys

warg riders
3 companys

Mordor troll

Grishnaks Trackers
3 companys

Allies

Corsairs
4 companys
Shields
Boson

Corsair Crossbows
3 companys

Corsair Crossbows
2 companys

1505

corsairs I have them and love the models, and the crossbows give me some mean firepower

Jorgen_CAB
17-04-2009, 15:32
Quite a nice list...

The only thing I would suggest would be to add the 3 strong orc formation to the 6 strong formation and have them all use 2-H weapons, led by Khamul. That is a nasty combination and a rock hard formation in combat, with a lot of staying power.

The only thing you have to watch out for are good Dueling heroes because they could ruin the day for you pretty fast.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
17-04-2009, 16:34
Good lists during our first game at my house we realized how quickly one company formations "explode." :P

Avatar of the Eldar
17-04-2009, 17:09
DPoC,

I assume we're all fiddling around at this point as we learn to get a handle on the game, so I'm disinclined to over-engineer lists.

One comment I will make is that at 1000 points a Fellbeast might be a point sump and could be traded in to beef up those orc formations and getting the Wargs up to 3 companies, which feels like a minimum number for survivability.

But, I understand the desire to try stuff out and who wouldn't want to test drive a Nazgul on a Fellbeast?

That said, 3 Nazgul, 2 on Fellbeasts in a 1500 seems downright disproportionate to me, but that's up to your opponents to voice.

Personally, I'm in the camp that favors an emphasis on troops and would suggest bigger warbands at each level of points increase and definitely more trolls before bringing in more Epic Heroes and allies. But that's me.

Have fun with it, whatever you do.

Nu Fenix
17-04-2009, 17:41
At least he isn't using a Goblin army with a Giant and Dragon *grumble*. I know I would rather face two Fellbeasts then those two.

However, I do agree with Avatar that two Fellbeasts is mildly excessive for your sized game, and I think they would be more useful on foot to look after the Orcs.

Since the discussion on Ringwraiths has shown me that each one has different forms of appeal, what made you pick those Ringwraiths?

Lord Asuryan
17-04-2009, 18:18
In general, I dislike cheap heroes, simply because they can be dueled, and WILL lose. the then your formationtakes muchos hits. I'm toying with excluding captains/etc from my list.

Avatar of the Eldar
17-04-2009, 18:31
In general, I dislike cheap heroes, simply because they can be dueled, and WILL lose. the then your formationtakes muchos hits. I'm toying with excluding captains/etc from my list.

Realistically, how often is that going to happen? If your group ends up running max Epic Heroes and min Heroes/Capt, then that's a sad commentary on the play style/mentality.

3 Nazgul, Gothmog, and Amdur but no captains in a 2000 pt list will get a big, disapproving headshake (and probably no game) from me.


Glad I'm in a group (big group) where gentlemanly arrangements are made to to make our games interesting, colorful and reasonably true to the Tolkein millieu, saving the min-maxing for our WFB/40K games.

At least he isn't using a Goblin army with a Giant and Dragon *grumble*. I know I would rather face two Fellbeasts then those two.

That's another thing that I don't understand. Why build a LotR list around a giant and a dragon when they're extremely rare in Tolkein's stories? Because you can? Again, not something I'm interested playing against without some specific scenario context.

Nu Fenix
17-04-2009, 18:50
Without cheap heroes however Asuryan, it means that you are forced to rely on your Epics to provide Might, for boosting rolls, using Will of Ironnand declaring Heroic actions.

With normal Captains, it increases the amount of heroes that must be killed off with Heroic Duels, whilst allowing you to be more liberal with your use of Might.

Avatar - Most the gamers in my local GW store where I have to play are teens who play to win, not play for background. The same person said if he had the money and time to do it, he would be tempted by THREE Balrogs or SIX Stone Giants in a 2000 point game! That is the kind of mentality around me, and if I wait to play a thematic game, I will be waiting until the next age of man :(

Lord Asuryan
17-04-2009, 19:45
I know, I use captains, but a lot of people I play with just max nazgul.

Nu Fenix
17-04-2009, 20:20
Well, for every 2 they take, you could afford 5 Captains, which is an awful lot of Might.

If you want to use specific Ringwraiths to deal with them, then depending on what they are using their heroes for, one of two spring to mind.
* The Undying, as he can protect your most valuable Formation from magic, by having you make Will of Iron without needing to expend Might, whilst also increasing your own Mastery. So if they have two Ringwraiths in range, he becomes Master 5! That is as high as Sauron and The Necromaner, which will certainly weaken your enemies.
* The Dwimmerlaik, as every time they are using Might for anything, on a 4+ they are forced to spend another Might point. Against other Ringwraiths, they can't expend another Might and so they fail. Shutting down Heroic Duels sounds like it could be useful for you, as well as Epic Strike and similar actions.

Depending on how many Heroic and Epic actions your opponents play locally, Gothmog may also be a viable option, although it means you are having to take more Epic Heroes to deal with them doing the same.

In my mind, they seem like a suitable way to support your own Captains and weaken their Ringwraiths at the same time.

Finally, whilst it would be using an ally and not completely thematic, but arguably viable as they live in caves, would be a Cave Drake. Having them call a Heroic Duel for free on a 4+, combined with instantly killing the enemy if you win the duel with you Fight 6 [and then +1 for calling the duel], means you have a good chance to kill the enemy hero. Against a Ringwraith, they are losing by 2 before expending Might. Plus, it has a movement of 12 and a statline almost on par with a Mordor Troll, means your opponents will be suprised.

Jorgen_CAB
17-04-2009, 23:03
I really don't see much of a problem fighting against Epic Heroes, not everyone are that good in duels and they usually are very expensive. Some are sadly a little too cheap, such as Gothmog... he is dirt cheap for his power level. Ring wraiths are also a little too cheap in my opinion... but anyway...

You need troops to win, heroes will only get you part of the way. If you take too many of them you have no point left to spend on troops. One other problem that I have seen are that you must insist in a larger battle filed of you bring lots of troops. They even state this in the rule book. I don't remeber the exact wording... but it was something like... it is better with too much room that cramming too much troops in a too small battlefield.

Anyone that takes too little troop choices will get surrounded and destroyed pretty fast because they cant cover their flanks properly.

backslide
18-04-2009, 01:21
* The Dwimmerlaik, as every time they are using Might for anything, on a 4+ they are forced to spend another Might point. Against other Ringwraiths, they can't expend another Might and so they fail. Shutting down Heroic Duels sounds like it could be useful for you, as well as Epic Strike and similar actions.




well he might end up being one I use!

the undying on the fellbeast is great as it lower the courage of a large chunk of the enemey army, thinking the betrayer for just killing power, Dwimmerlaik sounds worth a try, I should get round to using the witch king