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Ultimate Life Form
17-04-2009, 14:59
Being somewhat of a mid-level player, I´m still confused about challenges. Can the experienced players please help?

1. What is the purpose of a Chalenge ruleswise? I´m still not sure what it is? Is it just thrown in there for fun, or does it fulfill some critical balancing role, being a valuable tool?

2. Under which circumstances is it wise to issue a Challenge?

3. Under which circumstances one shouldn´t?


Thanks in advance.

Malorian
17-04-2009, 15:05
It can just be fun (my general challenges your general) but there is a ton of tactics around it too.

You might:

-Issue a challenge with a champ to tie up a killy character
-Issue a challenge with a champ to make sure your lord doesn't have to take one
-Issue a challenge with a wizard if the other unit only has a unit champ
-Issue a challenge if you have abilities that work better (or only) in a challenge
-Issue a challenge to neutralize the abilities of the other character (destroyer of eternities/thunder mace)
-Issue a challenge to get a ton of CR with D3/D6 wound weapons
-Issue a challenge with a lord to scare off a hero
-Issue a challenge with a character on a chariot as to reduce the number of incoming attacks

And the list goes on.


Challenges are very important and can mean victory or defeat.

rtunian
17-04-2009, 15:09
edit: see above!

bob_the_small
17-04-2009, 15:16
I think malorian got it in a nutshell, but also, if the enemy character is on the edge of the unit and u challenge him with a champ, then he cant attack.. so it draws away attacks on your units...

sroblin
17-04-2009, 17:11
In general, I think it is important to think of issuing a challenges as a means of controlling what the enemy player can attack. Unless you have some relevant special item or ability, challenging doesn't make you fight the enemy character better than if you simply directed attacks from models in base to base. In fact. it opens the risk that he'll just accept the challenge with a model you didn't want to attack.

However, by issuing a challenge you force the enemy to dedicate one model that can't attack the rank and file, and also prevent his rank and file from attacking your character. Typically, the rank and file will be more vulnerable to the characters attacks, so by challenging you are preserving your own rank and file and forcing the enemy to attack a model that (hopefully) will be harder to damage. Either way you might save points of CR (less wounds inflicted) or models (fewer models removed) or both.

Makaber
17-04-2009, 17:27
Regarding the Destroyer of Eternities and a ton of other stuff, the latest FAQ makes it clear that a character in a challenge is still in base to base combat with other models as normal. That is to say, being in a challenge doesn't actually alter the way the model physically related to other models.

fubukii
17-04-2009, 20:24
malorian nailed it pretty well, just look at that list.

LKHERO
17-04-2009, 20:48
I think malorian got it in a nutshell, but also, if the enemy character is on the edge of the unit and u challenge him with a champ, then he cant attack.. so it draws away attacks on your units...

Wait what?

I thought units had to be moved once they agree to a challenge.

W0lf
17-04-2009, 23:40
Chime in with the 'Malorian covered all the bases' crowd.

Generally speaking (infact almost explicitly so) challenges are used to stop characters form;

A) dieing
B) killing too much of your unit.

As a Vamps+WoC player i find i challenge/accept challenges alot.

kardar233
17-04-2009, 23:51
Also, when your Great Eagle-riding/Talisman of the Lycni-wearing/Disc of Tzeentch-riding hero crashes into a unit, you can challenge the champ and he can't refuse if you place yourself right, thereby saving you from having to roll the saves from the entire rank's attacks.

Ultimate Life Form
18-04-2009, 00:04
Hm...

Thanks so far. So I already had the right idea, just wasn´t sure if I was right, had a few bad incidents involving challenges.

I was hoping there was some rule of thumb like "When your enemy does A, you do B" or something, but it seems to be so complicated you have to decide carefully every time anew.

One last question I´m not sure on: Is there a significant difference between the enemy racking up masses of Overkill and actually slaying models? It doesn´t affect the outcome, and every time I have to make that decision, my judgement fails me. Do you have any tips on this? i suppose it´s okay for a champ to sacrifice himself in order to prevent unnecessary losses and keeping that rank bonus, but I´m not sure if I should have a character fulfill that role.

Shamfrit
18-04-2009, 00:25
It does affect the prolonged outcome of a fight, if, for example, you're fairly sure he's not going to break very easily, taking out a rank bonus CR point can mean the different between getting flanked, or breaking them next turn.

If you're not challenged, and the enemy champion is STR3 or the like, don't bother, otherwise, stick the git!

The Red Scourge
18-04-2009, 07:13
These are good things to think about, when deciding whether to spend the points for a champion or not.

For instance a group of wardancers charge a unit with a character on a 20 mm base. If there is no challenge, then the wardancers can direct up to 6 WS6 Killing Blow attacks against the character. Should the wardancers contain a champion, the enemy character would be able to "hide" in challenge thus reducing the number of attacks against him to 3 :)

So you really should give it some thought to what the purpose of your units are.