PDA

View Full Version : 2250 Empire - help for a relative newcomer



omricon
17-04-2009, 20:16
I will be using this army in a friendly setting with opponents ranging from DE, Lizardmen, Orcs, undead and skaven (so varied).

We have a gentlemens agreement to avoid magic heavy armies (limit 1-2 hero/Lord choices is about right I think), and so with this opportunity I saw that I might be able to use the TGM to good effect with a mixed army with heavy cavalry wing. Also I was complained at for using the AL :( Despite this, I still anticipate my opponent will carry more magic than me hence the emphasis on items dealing with it rather than wizrds or priests.

Any chance for comments on the list?:

LORD
TGM Luft von Waffel, GM, originally of the order of the raven (Morr) but now over all of Stirland w/ lance
+ Laurels of Victory
+Holy Relic
1+ Sv, 4+ ward save

HEROS

Battle Wizard
Level 2 Upgrade
1 Power Rod
+Sigil of Sigmar

Battle Standard bearer (Captain - 75)
+Full Plate, mounted w/ Barding 2+ Sv
+Griffon Standard

Captain
+full plate, mounted w/barding
+Shroud of Magnus

CORE - PARENT
28 Swordsmen
+full command
D1: 7 archers
D2: 10 Halberdiers


28 Swordsmen
+full command
D1: 7 archers
D2: 10 Halberdiers

CORE - Knights
5 Knights w/ musician

10 Crossbowmen

5 Knights w/ musician
+SB
+War Banner

SP:
Great Cannon
Great Cannon

SP:
IC Knight x 6
+SB
+Arcane Warding standard
+Musician
+Preceptor

SP:
5 Pistoliers

RARE: Hellblaster Volley Gun

Makarion
18-04-2009, 03:45
Let them complain about the Arch Lector. If they don't bring anything that's unbreakable, causes fear or regenerates, you can consider cutting back on one of your better units as well. It's not like Empire is a "press here to win" army.

BattleofLund
18-04-2009, 09:21
If you have an agreement to avoid going magic-heavy, I say ditch the Standard of Arcane Warding. Don't think you need it.

omricon
18-04-2009, 09:26
Thanks for the feedback.

What do you think of the other magic items or the unit sizes?

What banner should I replace it with?

BattleofLund
18-04-2009, 15:54
Laurels of Victory

I've never seen the Laurels used, but that's probably due to it's cost being deemed too high. Interesting!


Battle Wizard
Power Rod
Sigil of Sigmar


This MR(1) is if anything even less worth it than the Knights'. Humble opinion etc: damage of spells will be soaked up by your solid blocks, non-damage will likely not target units (TK incantations, VC bound spells for example).

The Rod: most people favour Dispel Scrolls - but I think you've made a good choice here.


Battle Standard bearer
Full Plate, mounted w/ Barding 2+ Sv
Griffon Standard


Seems solid to me.


Captain
full plate, mounted w/barding
Shroud of Magnus


Again with the humble here: MR is not worth it. Helm of the Ratslayer with the Crimson Amulet or Talisman of Protection (45 or 40 pts) gives you 0+ armour save and a 6+ Ward. For an inexpensive Hero, I would take just the Helm, or nothing - or like both our Empire-exclusive players do, take the Casket of Sorcery and burglarise away your opponents' spells.


28 Swordsmen
7 archers
10 Halberdiers

28 Swordsmen
7 archers
10 Halberdiers

5 Knights

10 Crossbowmen


Good-sized units. Handgunners are really popular around here, but maybe heavy armour isn't as popular in your group.



5 Knights w/ musician
SB
War Banner


I've seen twin Knight units (with nothing except the musician upgrade) do good work. Would recommend firing this Standard Bearer and give his War Banner to the IC Knights.



Great Cannon
Great Cannon


Metal tubes filled with chemicals and more metal - what could possibly go wrong? Seriously though, this seems good to me. Most Empire armies I've seen include a Mortar because it's very good against big mobs of T3 infantry.


IC Knight x 6
Arcane Warding standard


See above.



5 Pistoliers

Hellblaster Volley Gun

Always problematic to deal with for the enemy. Good choice.

Aaand... that's what I got. :)

RainbowConnickJr
18-04-2009, 18:33
I agree that the upgrades on the five-man Knight units would probably be best served being dropped.

My personal opinion is that, as far as Captains/Generals go, any magic items besides a magic banner could probably be knocked off without missing much. Just give him full plate and a shield and have him mounted and he's protected enough.

The Halberdiers might be more manuverable if you drop one man from each detachment and run them in a 3x3 square instead. But, that's really a matter of personal taste.

omricon
19-04-2009, 16:45
Thanks for your advice, have changed the list in the following way:

LORD
TGM Luft von Waffel, GM, originally of the order of the raven (Morr) but now over all of Stirland w/ lance
+ Laurels of Victory
+Holy Relic
1+ Sv, 4+ ward save

HEROS

Battle Wizard
Level 2 Upgrade
1 Power Rod


Battle Standard bearer (Captain - 75)
+Full Plate, mounted w/ Barding 2+ Sv
+Griffon Standard

War Priest
+meteorice armour, warhorse, icon of magnus


CORE - PARENT
28 Swordsmen
+full command
D1: 7 archers
D2: 9 Halberdiers


28 Swordsmen
+full command
D1: 7 archers
D2: 9 Halberdiers

CORE - Knights
5 Knights w/ musician

10 Crossbowmen

5 Knights w/ musician

SP:
Great Cannon
Great Cannon

SP:
IC Knight x 6
+SB
+War Banner
+Musician
+Preceptor

SP:
5 Pistoliers

RARE: Hellblaster Volley Gun

The improvements I think have ditched the stuff that you guys have identified as less useful and cut back the units a bit. I replaced the captain with a priest to get the extra DD to indulge my magic paranoia. It also happens to leave me wih a good 50 points odd spare!

Any suggestions of how I can fill up those points? Should I cut back somewhere else and create another full unit? I could ditch the crosbows and get another cheap 5 man Knight unit.

Thanks for your help so far!

Makarion
19-04-2009, 18:07
I'd give a musician to your pistoliers for sure. After that, I would cut the musicians off the bare knights (much as I normally like them, mind!), and one archer off each detachment, to add a second unit of crossbows. Alternatively, keep the musicians on the knights and give the wizard a horse.

dijit80
19-04-2009, 21:13
You can get a cheaper decent save for your priest with hvy armour, shield, barded warhorse, that gives a 2+ save for give or take half the points.

omricon
20-04-2009, 08:49
Perhaps I could just chuck the horse off the priest and then the points would be about the same but with a better save.

You guys have some great ideas thanks and yes a good point that perhaps more shooting rather than knights would be better.

Will post a fuller list when I hopefully get a final opinion of BattleofLund :)

BattleofLund
20-04-2009, 11:22
War Priest
+meteorice armour, warhorse, icon of magnus

I replaced the captain with a priest to get the extra DD to indulge my magic paranoia. It also happens to leave me wih a good 50 points odd spare!

Any suggestions of how I can fill up those points? Should I cut back somewhere else and create another full unit? I could ditch the crosbows and get another cheap 5 man Knight unit.

With three units of Knights, I wouldn't add another. Maybe some armament for the Warrior Priest?


You can get a cheaper decent save for your priest with hvy armour, shield, barded warhorse, that gives a 2+ save for give or take half the points.

I agree that if he is going on a horse anyway, giving him the Armour of Meteoric Iron is not the best buy. If you really want a 1+ save (which is good), barding for the warhorse, heavy armour and Enchanted Shield saves you 2 whole points ;).


Perhaps I could just chuck the horse off the priest and then the points would be about the same but with a better save.

Or that, of course! Depends on if you want to have the option of toughening up one of the Outer Circle Knights units. Having the choice mid-battle can be gold.


I'd give a musician to your pistoliers for sure.

Complete agreement here, fast cavalry should always have a noisemaker. Not that any unit capable of fleeing should be without one if they can take it.

Good luck!

omricon
20-04-2009, 14:15
Thanks guys, I will think about that. There is still one thing I dont understand though perhaps I have missed something, why is the musician on the pistoleers so valuable? I thought musicians only worked in combat?

Makarion
20-04-2009, 16:47
Musicians help with rallying, and fast cavalry can rally and shoot in the same turn after fleeing. A favourite ploy is to lure an enemy into charging them from (hopefully) enough distance that you can get away from being overrun by fleeing, then recovering from the feigned flight and peppering them in the nose with your pistols.

omricon
20-04-2009, 19:04
What a great idea! Makarion, what is the exact in game effect please? All this time I have been ignoring musician effcts for fleeing units...

I wont repost the list because it is essentially the same except the priest has hammer of judgement and regular armour + horse instead of meteoric and I used the loose points to buy a musician for the pistoleers and an extra knight or 2.

Thanks again for all your help.

Makarion
21-04-2009, 01:28
The musician gives a +1 on the Ld roll to recover from fleeing. If you fail, you keep fleeing - otherwise you are free to reform as you wish (fast cavalry) and shoot.

omricon
21-04-2009, 07:31
Thanks a lot.