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Kill-Freedom
19-04-2009, 08:57
Ghouls or skeletons?

Well normally i use skeletons, cause they have a command group and with a warbanner adds a fair bit to combat res, but lately been thinking about changing to ghouls, due to fact they have far more attacks and more likely to kill something, with poison and better weop skill, the down side is that the lose the 8 +1 combat res

More possible wounds vs banner

tough choice LOL

The Red Scourge
19-04-2009, 09:34
Not a tough choice. Both units should produce very similar results in a combat situation. Yet ghouls have the advantage that they cost less –*as you do not need to spend the extra points on command/magic banner – and that they give up less VP, when they die.

Yet all the cool kids use skellies. The shambling, rattling horde of bone is way cooler, and also the ghoul models looks horrible :)

TheZombieSquig
19-04-2009, 11:57
Not a tough choice. Both units should produce very similar results in a combat situation. Yet ghouls have the advantage that they cost less *as you do not need to spend the extra points on command/magic banner and that they give up less VP, when they die.

Yet all the cool kids use skellies. The shambling, rattling horde of bone is way cooler, and also the ghoul models looks horrible :)

My thoughts exactly. And you can get plenty of the older generations of ghoul models from ebay, I built up 3 units of 20 that way.

The higher toughness, poisoned attacks, and ghoulkin bloodline make them the better choice IMO.

MasterSparks
19-04-2009, 13:30
If you're going for maximum efficiency the choice is highly dependant on who you're battling. I've found that skeletons are a much better choice when fighting the dark elves, much thanks to their armour save. They are adept at breaking those silly elves through CR while staving off their attacks. Ghouls just die in droves against them.

selone
19-04-2009, 14:43
This topic has been discussed many tiems in the tactics section :)

metal midget
19-04-2009, 16:25
i don't realy play vampire counts bu i would say ghouls on the grounds they are better fighters and would be powerful against light infantry with many attacks if your worried about getting shot at just take the vampiric power that lets raise more and skeletons won't have that good of a save anyway against more potent missile weapons

(handguns,repeater crossbows and the kind)

Rubicon
19-04-2009, 17:13
I'd say go one or the other DO NOT try to do both. My preference would be for Ghouls. The added resilience and additional poisoned attack(s) mean that you can make up for any lost static res and if you take a vamp with ghoulkin you can play a really aggressive style of army

Dungeon_Lawyer
19-04-2009, 17:44
The proper vampire count will have a stash of both in their graveyard & crypts to call upon. As mentioned, unsually not in the same army on any given day/battle field.

Both units have good, albeit different combos/tactics that a competant vamp general can employ to excellent effect.

Which one is better? It really comes down to who you are fighting against and which sort of tactics you prefer/are most comfortable with. Against really shooty armies, as mentioned before skellies armour helps them out quite alot, whereas ghouls and there poisoned attacks really helps out against high toughness armies. I prefer skellies since I like the tactics/combos you can take via magical banners- Up to 25 points and bar none, VC have the best magic standards in the game, a whopping 7 banners of less than 25 points that skellies have access to (not including common); that is a bucket full of tactical options for a good general [magical flaming attacks? Sure! bye bye regenerate foes and wraiths!, Oh you captured my standard? Enjoy some d6 S4 hits punkass!) The best is Dead Legion double unit strength: thus auto-breaking defeated units 90% of the time.

But ghouls are great too! That one magic item that allows them one extra move at the begnning of the game can cause alot of trouble.


If I had to choose? I like skellies a tad bit more- aesthetics puts them over the top in my book-but I totally understand the arguments for those who prefer ghouls.

The ghouls vs Skellies and skinks/javelins shields or skinks/blowpipes are the two best ongoing debates in the meta-game-I think they should be encouraged cause I for one ALWAYS come away with a new insight each time I read threads devoted to these debates.

Pengie
20-04-2009, 01:34
I prefer skellies, as dungeon lawyer pointed out more tactical options and they just look better.

As far as the skinks I think its a bit one sided now you have to pay points for the javelins

Dark14
20-04-2009, 04:30
Not a tough choice. Both units should produce very similar results in a combat situation. Yet ghouls have the advantage that they cost less –*as you do not need to spend the extra points on command/magic banner – and that they give up less VP, when they die.

Yet all the cool kids use skellies. The shambling, rattling horde of bone is way cooler, and also the ghoul models looks horrible :)

i would respectfully disagree.:p

skellies do it for me when ghouls failed and i noticed newer vc players taking them more often than vets. But yes the ghouls would do better if your games come to VP and your taking alot of combat losses although most games it shouldn't come down to VP be it good or bad. Its the armour save that seems to be the turning point on the matter for me as it saves me alot more than t4.

also i love the new ghoul models lol :cool:

W0lf
20-04-2009, 10:55
This debate has been doen to death several times and all the outcomes point to the fact that they are too close to call.

Simply put its the one thing the vamps book did right and you should go with what models/background/feel you like best.

I personally use Ghouls because alot of the things i face ignore/negate the skletons AS anyway and they are capable of wounds/kills. Ghouls are more resiliant to shooting and dont give away banners.

Nicha11
20-04-2009, 10:59
I think Ghouls are far superior but i'm sure to be contradicted on this.

The Red Scourge
20-04-2009, 12:18
I personally use Ghouls because alot of the things i face ignore/negate the skletons AS anyway and they are capable of wounds/kills. Ghouls are more resiliant to shooting and dont give away banners.

Exactly my point. You use ghouls to go with the best choice.

And skellies to go with the more stylish :)

Ixquic
20-04-2009, 13:47
This debate has been doen to death several times and all the outcomes point to the fact that they are too close to call.

Simply put its the one thing the vamps book did right and you should go with what models/background/feel you like best.

I personally use Ghouls because alot of the things i face ignore/negate the skletons AS anyway and they are capable of wounds/kills. Ghouls are more resiliant to shooting and dont give away banners.

Yup. You can crunch the numbers in several ways but they are pretty well balanced. Personally I like skeletons but really trying to figure out which is 0.0001% better in order to make your VC list just THAAAAAT much better is pretty lame.

Keller
20-04-2009, 13:50
I prefer skellies, mostly because I don't have enough ghoul models to form proper units. I miss the skirmishing, ALIVE ghouls from the previous book :(

If I ever get around to picking up more models, I would probably start using more Ghoul units as mainstays, but I am very happy with my skellies.

apbevan
20-04-2009, 19:08
Both are great.
Ghouls are more offensive and better for taking things out like giants.
Skeletons are better with CR as you have full command + magic banner

I field a unit of each either 19 or 24 strong with a vampire with its respective raise lore.
I have listed 2 examples of how they perform differently.

Giant vs skeletons is boring rounds of raise and stubborn tests. vs ghouls it falls in a 2-3 turns.

Knights vs skeletons is a 2nd turn route of the knights but vs ghouls the knights slowly carve them up and As against the poison.

Kill-Freedom
21-04-2009, 05:31
Well i try keep my army one or the other, way i am looking at it now, is skeletons have the banner, and thats plus 1 to CR, but ghouls have more attacks and poison, so can score a wound or 2 more, also they are cheaper, if i replace my 2 x 10 skeleton (spears, full command, 1 has warbanner) i can get 2 units of ghouls and another unit of either dire wolves or fell bats

toughness 4 is awesome, as most shooting is only strenght 3, and most armies averge strenght is 3, but the skellies armour save is pretty good too

Dunno yet

Scythe
21-04-2009, 08:30
If I got a penny everytime this was brought up...

Anyway, the search function is your friend.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142064&highlight=ghouls+skeletons
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132396&highlight=ghouls+skeletons
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136090&highlight=ghouls+skeletons

and just in case that's not enough:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135333&highlight=ghouls+skeletons

The Red Scourge
21-04-2009, 08:42
You'd have 4. Thats a long way to becoming a millionaire :D