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Emissary
19-04-2009, 16:18
I was reading the battle report on the GW site (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=12500001) and noticed that on one turn the dwarf player made a terror check when charging a non-terror causing formation that included a ringwraith. My first thought was "there's GW being dumb again and not knowing their own rules" but to be sure I went back and checked the rulebook.

Terror states on page 63:


If a formation wishes to charge a terror-causing creature it must first pass a courage test. If the test is failed, the unit does not summon enough bravery and the charge automatically stalls.

If a formation is successfully charged by one or more terror-causing creatures, it must immediately take a courage test. If it passes, there is no effect.

If the formation fails the courage test, its warriors are terrified and the formation's fight value is reduced to 0 for the remainder of the phase.

What struck me is that the rules do not state that you make the courage test if you wish to charge or are charged by a terror-causing formation. Rather it refers to a terror-causing creature. Now we know that epic heroes do not pass their special rules on to their formation/company unless specifically stated. At the same time an epic hero doesn't lose its special rules while in a formation either.

At this point I'm inclined to think that a terror-causing epic hero in a non-terror-causing formation pretty much forces terror checks on your opponent's units when they are charged or charge a formation that includes a terror-causing hero. At the same time, the formation does not cause terror itself, so if targeted by a spell like Terrifying Aura, the formation will only cause terror and the terror-causing hero would not cause the terror check at a -1.

Anyone else agree or am I reading this wrong?

Kroot Lord
19-04-2009, 16:51
I was reading the battle report on the GW site (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=12500001) and noticed that on one turn the dwarf player made a terror check when charging a non-terror causing formation that included a ringwraith. My first thought was "there's GW being dumb again and not knowing their own rules" but to be sure I went back and checked the rulebook.

Terror states on page 63:



What struck me is that the rules do not state that you make the courage test if you wish to charge or are charged by a terror-causing formation. Rather it refers to a terror-causing creature. Now we know that epic heroes do not pass their special rules on to their formation/company unless specifically stated. At the same time an epic hero doesn't lose its special rules while in a formation either.

At this point I'm inclined to think that a terror-causing epic hero in a non-terror-causing formation pretty much forces terror checks on your opponent's units when they are charged or charge a formation that includes a terror-causing hero. At the same time, the formation does not cause terror itself, so if targeted by a spell like Terrifying Aura, the formation will only cause terror and the terror-causing hero would not cause the terror check at a -1.

Anyone else agree or am I reading this wrong?

Everybody should agree with you, because it specifically says "a terror-causing creature".

A model causing terror is a terror causing creature.

A model with terror is in another company, so also a formation.

When charging you charge the company, including the model with the terror special rule.

When charging against such a company, including the model with the terror special rule, you roll for courage.

Nu Fenix
19-04-2009, 18:40
This ended up being discussed in the Spirit Grasp thread in GD, as it went off on a tangent regarding Terror causing heroes in non-Terror causing Formations.

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191845

After much rules discussions, citing sections of the rules directly and the usual forum interactions, it was agreed that the hero still caused Terrir because it is a creature.

Emissary
19-04-2009, 19:18
Cool, I must have missed that thread. Thanks.

Reinholt
21-04-2009, 04:31
As I argued in that thread, this would indeed work precisely as you suggest.

Ksarn
22-04-2009, 06:15
I would personally assume it causes terror as it is still a creature regardless

Lord Asuryan
22-04-2009, 21:03
aye, and pretty compelling, upgrading gandalf to 'the white' gives him terror. which would otherwise be useless. and then he would be even more overpriced.

thorgrim
03-05-2009, 13:39
I agree that a terror causing creature that joins a company passes its terror onto the company. Note i said company and not formation. If you find yourself in a position to charge a formation that contains a terror causing character but would not be in base to base contact with the company the character is in (flank/ rear of the formation) then no terror check should be required as you are not charging the creature that causes terror.

Jorgen_CAB
03-05-2009, 21:04
I would not bother with being in base contact, you can't be 100% sure you will be that before a charge. I would rather simply have the formation roll for Terror if the spearhead can see the company the Terror creature/person is in.