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DaSpaceAsians
20-04-2009, 12:39
I'm a very avid (obsessed) Guard Player who loves the actual Leman Russ Vanquisher ans converted some excellent models and I bring them every time I go to my local gaming club. While I'm playing, there's this guy who comes and starts calling my tanks cheese and starts going around telling people not to play against because I'm a jerk since I use Vanquishers and they outrange every other tank and have the Veterans Skill. He told that me that I'm a coward because I hide my tanks behind my gunline and even told me that don't have a pair since I use ''cheese'' tanks. He's even gone as far as saying that it's cheesy for a Guard tank to have ballistic skill 4. WTF?

carldooley
20-04-2009, 12:46
When I ran AC, I ordered 2 vanquisher turrets to go on my tanks as I quietly preferred the chance to use the AT shell. of course, that was in fourth, when you had a chance of missing with the large blast shots.

Just tell your naysayer that it is actually in his best interest to let you use vanquishers - the blast weapons are preferred in fifth and if you prefer to use the AT shell it is actually in his favor. As to the range issue, ask him if he'd rather you play with indirect basilisks - as they have a 20' range.

Tonberry
20-04-2009, 12:51
Your opponent is incorrect, they're made of resin.

Do you really care about the oppinon of one random person? No-one forces you to play againt said person, so if you don't like it, don't play them.

DaSpaceAsians
20-04-2009, 12:54
I actually told him that about Basilisks and AT shells and he still complains and still goes telling I'm a jerk.
He's also very prejudiced against Guard players since his Space Marines have beaten countless times in a humiliating way by a Guard player.

DaSpaceAsians
20-04-2009, 13:01
Your opponent is incorrect, they're made of resin.

Do you really care about the oppinon of one random person? No-one forces you to play againt said person, so if you don't like it, don't play them.

I don't play against him but he tries to deny me opponents so it's pretty important and goes around bugging me and my opponent during games.

mughi3
20-04-2009, 13:02
his Space Marines have beaten countless times in a humiliating way by a Guard player.
There is the crux right there.
It is typica of bad loosers to start blaming the enemies army for thier bad generalship.
If anything FW is overcosted for what it does for all but 2 units in their entire line that i can think of.

FW is there to add variety to the game. they are all GW models for use in normal 40K and now apocalypse.
FW has shifted much of it's focus towards apocalypse now but all the rules they had written up for their units prior to this were intended for normal games.

In your particular case he really cannot complain because nearly every non-superheavy FW tank for IG including the vanquisher has been put into the IG codex and you can buy a special character tank ace commander for one of them that is similar to (suprise) chronus of the space marine dex.


I don't play against him but he tries to deny me opponents so it's pretty important and goes around bugging me and my opponent during games.
And he calls you a jerk?
seriosuly i would have a word with him akin to "i am using legal GW models in a fun game of 40K, if you do not want to play me you are free not to, but i would appreciate it if you stop bothering me or my opponants"

If he persists file a complaint with the store management.

Bunnahabhain
20-04-2009, 13:09
Just ignore him.

In this world, some people are highly unreasonable and objectionable. This guy sounds like one of them.

If there is absoultley no getting rid of or ignoring him, then try the following arguments.

So what do I do with a 96" range on a 6x4 foot board? I can't see anything because of the cover?

So the Guard are the force well known for not using heavy tanks and lots of artillery?

So It's ok for veteran guardsmen to have BS4 outside a tank, but not inside it?

So, do you want to try using my cheesy Guard then? Here is the list and the codex, you should wipe the floor with me if those tanks are as broken as you say....

Lordmonkey
20-04-2009, 13:13
Echo - sounds like a typical sore loser to me. If i'm honest, almost every sore loser that I know is a marine player.

"My men are superhuman, how did I lose? CHEESE!"

"AP3 weapons? CHEESE!"

"My tactical marines only get 1 attack and Orks get 3? CHEESE!"

etc...

You aren't being cheesy whatsoever, so don't worry about it. Just ignore this guy and, as mughi3 says, complain to the store manager/club official.

Max Jet
20-04-2009, 13:25
I'm a very avid (obsessed) Guard Player who loves the actual Leman Russ Vanquisher ans converted some excellent models and I bring them every time I go to my local gaming club. While I'm playing, there's this guy who comes and starts calling my tanks cheese and starts going around telling people not to play against because I'm a jerk since I use Vanquishers and they outrange every other tank and have the Veterans Skill. He told that me that I'm a coward because I hide my tanks behind my gunline and even told me that don't have a pair since I use ''cheese'' tanks. He's even gone as far as saying that it's cheesy for a Guard tank to have ballistic skill 4. WTF?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA XDDDDD!!!!!!!!!

Relax.. we have all seen it a dozen times in real life and a hundred times in this forum.
"How did I loose? I chose to play Marines for christs sake! They are not supposed to loose!" It's the typical IWANNABETHEHERO Syndrom and thus they get angry if their enemy wins. I never understood the attitude of some people crying "Marines should be the best in everything because fluff blablabla." It's a GAME for gods sake.. That means equal chances for both sides, even if one of them plays the heroic space marines an the other one a bunch of mutants.

Now seriously. Most of the forge world models have experimental and are not playtested properly (let's skip the "nothing is playtested properly in 40k" Remark for now) Because to AVOID cheese callers a bunch of models have way to high costs for their specialties or considering how fragile a unit is, their point costs are sometimes based on year old codicies (though tey get updated). As a fact.. most units are rather underpowered than overpowered.. I mean.. look at the dkok list! So just let this guy be... and move to proper gaming buddies. There are enough nice people out there who judge everything right. (Seriously.. guard not being allowed to have bs4? *laughs* did he even read the guard codex?)

Azhrarn
20-04-2009, 13:34
Vanquishers have always been an option in the Guard Codex, that GW doesn't have a model for them isn't your fault.
They're as balanced as anything else in there, so your opponent is a whiny little kid.

Brother Drakist
20-04-2009, 13:41
If your opponent is ok with you using Forg World rules models prior to playing the game I see no issues with using Vanquishers. However, if you just use them and do not make your opponent aware of this I can see how others might give you some grief. Explain to your opponent before the game, show him the rules, and if he agrees then their should not be any issues.

genestealer_baldric
20-04-2009, 13:42
On a cheese caller: next time you see him, give him a block of edam so he finds it easier to compare what is a cheese and what is a poor looser and rubbish general :evilgrin:

baphomael
20-04-2009, 13:52
Vanquishers have always been an option in the Guard Codex, that GW doesn't have a model for them isn't your fault.
They're as balanced as anything else in there, so your opponent is a whiny little kid.

Not quite, with the upcoming codex they'll have been in half the IG codex's published (two out of four).

Azhrarn
20-04-2009, 14:00
Not quite, with the upcoming codex they'll have been in half the IG codex's published (two out of four).

Guess I was wrong then.
(I could have sworn they were in the 4th ed. codex, I know they were in 3rd)
But even with FW rules they're technically overcosted for what they're capable of anyway.

Mannimarco
20-04-2009, 14:01
ah forgeworld and cheese, its the longest running argument in 40k

are forgeworld tanks broken? no theyre not, if anything they are overcosted for what the do.

there seems to be a consensus that as you are meant to ask your oppenents permission to use them they must be overpowered however this can lead to people just being dicks, for example i was recently told that i cannot use my mars pattern hull russ with a ryza turret because its a forge world model, i pointed out its identical in every way to a standard russ and was told no i cant use forgeworld models

shame really cos i usually run some cyclops demolition vehicles down the flanks (and before anybody says, no theyre not broken either)

parus_ater
20-04-2009, 14:05
Take this prick on and beat him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RCgothic
20-04-2009, 14:16
for example i was recently told that i cannot use my mars pattern hull russ with a ryza turret because its a forge world model, i pointed out its identical in every way to a standard russ and was told no i cant use forgeworld models

In this case, calmly pick up your models and say:

'It's ok, I don't want to play you anyway.'

Mannimarco
20-04-2009, 14:24
fortunately most of the good IA tanks will now find their way into the new guard codex but will be very overpriced meaning a return to SIGAFH*, if you are lucky enough to find an opponent who is cool with forgeworld models i would reccomend the thunderer siege tank, its identical to the leman russ demolisher but about 60 points cheaper but loses all its options to take extra hull and sponsoon weapons

* back before the last imperial guard codex the basic guardman would cost 5 points, this was increased to 6 to move the army away from SIGAFH or shooty imperial guard army from hell, this was deemed to be overpowered as it was a huge swarm of infantry (usually numbering close to ork levels) backed up by a couple of tanks and not many armies could take that amount of fire meaning a boring game, Jervis said so must be true

Forlorn
20-04-2009, 15:06
Create a destroyed SM tank in his Chapter colors, fill it with tissues and give it to him as a gift.

jams86
20-04-2009, 15:16
just out of curiosity, how old is this cheese caller?

parus_ater
20-04-2009, 15:22
What weight is the cheese caller?:D

EVIL INC
20-04-2009, 15:22
Create a destroyed SM tank in his Chapter colors, fill it with tissues and give it to him as a gift.

That would be a waste of money. A more cost efficient way to get his goat would be to create the destroyed tank in his colors and use it as a piece of scenery. Another would be to start putting kill markings on the tanks and other models. make sure to have plenty of markings representing his army with the red slashes through them.
With the fits and temper tantrums he seems to be throwing, he is not making you look like the jerk, he is showing himself to be one. Dont underestimate the intelligence of his "audiance" and think that they are going to just suck in everything he says and believe it. Prove him wrong in a calm clear manner with facts and proof. Do so when others can see. The more excitable he gets, the worse he makes himself look.
When all else fails, play him "or any of his audiance" using the vanquishers as normal russes. You still get to use the cool models.

Vaktathi
20-04-2009, 15:28
I'm a very avid (obsessed) Guard Player who loves the actual Leman Russ Vanquisher ans converted some excellent models and I bring them every time I go to my local gaming club. While I'm playing, there's this guy who comes and starts calling my tanks cheese and starts going around telling people not to play against because I'm a jerk since I use Vanquishers and they outrange every other tank and have the Veterans Skill. He told that me that I'm a coward because I hide my tanks behind my gunline and even told me that don't have a pair since I use ''cheese'' tanks. He's even gone as far as saying that it's cheesy for a Guard tank to have ballistic skill 4. WTF?

First: do something (either going to the store manager or whoever is in charge of the gaming club) about the harrassment

Second: Almost everything non-Apoc from Forgeworld as it relates to Imperial Guard is horrifically overpriced. The new codex has the Hydra at 75pts, FW costed it at 200pts. Furthermore, the Vanquisher is in the upcoming codex, and you *Can* give it a BS4 commander that also gets +1 armor pen when stationary, however it does lose the stormbolter and ordnance blast shell, but has 13 side armor and can move and shoot both the main gun and a hull lascannon, and it's much cheaper.



As for hiding tanks behind the gunline, umm...has he *ever* read anything about the Imperial guard and it's endless line of infantry *backed up* by a wall of tanks? That's exactly how they play.

Basically, he's being a gigantic tool, nothing more. Stop playing and talking to him, and get on with playing people that aren't a waste of your time. He sounds like a ticked off 12 year old.



there seems to be a consensus that as you are meant to ask your oppenents permission to use them they must be overpowered however this can lead to people just being dicks, for example i was recently told that i cannot use my mars pattern hull russ with a ryza turret because its a forge world model, i pointed out its identical in every way to a standard russ and was told no i cant use forgeworld models Whoever told you this was also being a tool. All GW events allow FW models if they are just run as a normal codex unit, next time pull out the GT rules if he wants to be an ass and smack him upside the head.

Lord Cook
20-04-2009, 15:32
The bloke sounds like a sad, bitter idiot. Just ignore him.

Mannimarco
20-04-2009, 15:32
yep ticked off 12 year old who thinks playing marines should be like playing halo on novice, one marine wades across the middle of the board laughing as hundreds of guardsmen run screaming from him

RustyKnight
20-04-2009, 15:33
i was recently told that i cannot use my mars pattern hull russ with a ryza turret because its a forge world model, i pointed out its identical in every way to a standard russ and was told no i cant use forgeworld models

So it was a codex Russ made using some nice looking pieces and your opponent wouldn't let you use it? Did you ask them if they had a hearing disability?

Sir_Turalyon
20-04-2009, 15:45
Sore loser on personal crusade against your army? Eighter ignore him or wipe floor with his army without using Forge World minis, to let him see how overpriced they are ;).



back before the last imperial guard codex the basic guardman would cost 5 points, this was increased to 6 to move the army away from SIGAFH or shooty imperial guard army from hell, this was deemed to be overpowered as it was a huge swarm of infantry (usually numbering close to ork levels) backed up by a couple of tanks and not many armies could take that amount of fire meaning a boring game, Jervis said so must be true

That was army list from 3rd edition rulebook, 3rd edition codex already got overpriced infrantry and balanced it with new Leman Russ variants. Then 3.5 dex got rid of tank variants leaving infrantry overpriced, introducing instead odd bita like techpeirsts or doctrines.

Big Black Book Guard weren't shooting army of doom eighter, althrough it could be played as such. I tried it recently: these 50 points infrantry squads had powerfist seregant option in addition to 5 point plasma guns and heavy bolters everybody remembers, stormtroopers were on par with veteran squads from upcoming codex and Rough Riders were powerfist delivery system. It was a (Counter) Assault Guard Army from Hell.

Havock
20-04-2009, 15:46
I'm a very avid (obsessed) Guard Player who loves the actual Leman Russ Vanquisher ans converted some excellent models and I bring them every time I go to my local gaming club. While I'm playing, there's this guy who comes and starts calling my tanks cheese and starts going around telling people not to play against because I'm a jerk since I use Vanquishers and they outrange every other tank and have the Veterans Skill. He told that me that I'm a coward because I hide my tanks behind my gunline and even told me that don't have a pair since I use ''cheese'' tanks. He's even gone as far as saying that it's cheesy for a Guard tank to have ballistic skill 4. WTF?

The guy is an idiot.
Let him read this.

Frontier
20-04-2009, 16:51
Create a destroyed SM tank in his Chapter colors, fill it with tissues and give it to him as a gift.

This sounds like something I would do. Especially to get an even more animated reaction out of him.

Orbital102
20-04-2009, 16:55
Let me tell you something about how the community works:

There will always be someone who calls it "skill" when they win, and "cheese" when you do. Don't concern yourself with them; what makes them act that way has nothing to do with you, your list or the game. Play with people you respect and whom you respect, and leave those others (and their need to label other players) to themselves.

RCgothic
20-04-2009, 17:16
Avoiding the guy seems like it's been attempted without success. Report him to management.

Yarick Zan
20-04-2009, 17:35
Say something along the lines of this:

"Excuse me, I am trying to have a friendly game here. I would much appreciate it if you would stop insulting me, and my army. I don't do it to you, and there is no reason why you should do it to me. I would be more than happy to play you in a game, after you age in attitude to that of an adult rather than a four year old. If you continue to slander my army and myself like this I will have no choice but to tell management I am being harassed by another person. I have now asked you nicely to stop, and it only gets worse for you from here."

carldooley
20-04-2009, 18:31
Let me tell you something about how the community works:

There will always be someone who calls it "skill" when they win, and "cheese" when you do. Don't concern yourself with them; what makes them act that way has nothing to do with you, your list or the game. Play with people you respect and whom you respect, and leave those others (and their need to label other players) to themselves.

anyone who looks to win more than 50% of the time is being unreasonable. Heck, I'm happy just getting a game going.

Dreachon
20-04-2009, 19:07
Report him to the store owner, also let him know that you find him comments and attempts to prevent people from playing you childish in the extreme.

DaSpaceAsians
20-04-2009, 22:58
Thanks guys :)

You've made my awesome day even more awesome.

Question answering now
Legality
I always ask my opponent's consent and he's there telling them not to let me.

The Guy
He's close to being 14 years old spoiled only child and he's a fat idiot. By idiot, I mean he gets beaten by a 12 year old crazy kid (good friend of mine) with Guardsmen. He's also the kind of guy that goes up to me and tells me he's going to do this army so he can do this strategy against me. My typical answer is Good for You, but in 40k there's a solution for every problem and then I tell him that I might be afraid if he actually had the army. He goes in and barges in games by saying that his ''awesome'' space ***** captain can win the game by himself. He goes around barging in my discussions with my gaming buddies about house rules and forge world stuff and claims that I asked his opinion in my mind and he heard since he's ''psychic''. He asked if I fear more Devastator Squads or Predators for my Leman Russes. My typical answer is neither I can improvise my way out and it's only a game. He actually left 40k for a period because it's not as strategic as Fantasy and started calling my buddies and I idiots since we play 40k because it's not as strategic as Fantasy or the other games he plays. He goes around saying Guards suck and they all stupidly die and other stuff like that.


Funny Incident
He actually found a cohort of young bloods and actually started telling them that he was an awesome player and then challenged my crazy self and my crazy buddy. He then tells me not to put carapace on our guards because it's unrealistic since guardsmen should die by the barrelful. Afterwards he orders me not to count my Vanquisher as a standard one. He then tells his cohorts that I'm jerk and he yells in front of everyone in the store that my tanks are cheesy. Luckily, a nice space marine player diffuses the situation by saying ''Where's the cheese?'' He then tells me to nerf it's range to 40'' so that one of the kids who has a predator(with counts as lascannons autocannon and heavy bolters and no threads) can outrange me. I tell that it's a take one LR Vanquisher or I'm not playing so he realizes that he can't prove he's a genius by beating so he lets me. We place our armies but during the placement he rants about how him and his cohorts will kill IG and how his men will eat them. First shooting for us, we're about to start our shooting when his cohorts desert him. A nice chap takes a quick glance and tells him and his cohorts that the way the guardsmen are placed and their deployement is made them lose the game before it even started since the only unit that could have won the game (Assault Vets) were not held in deep strike and could not execute a Heroic Intervention :D. He was the one that came up with his deployement. I have never seen those cohorts again.

Solutions
To get on his nerves, two of my buddies who hate will convert land raiders to make battle wagons and paint them orky but still expose enough of his chapter colors and hang dead marines in the came colors on said vehicles and maybe my gaming buddies will make some kill marks. I've already told the management and tried ignoring him but he still annoys me.

Me
I do not have any prejudice against Space Marine players but I hate Space ***** players. I'm 16 years old and it's strange to see the difference in maturity in 2 years of age difference.

Max Jet
20-04-2009, 23:09
He's close to being 14 years old

Well that answers it... god he's just a little kid, don't take him so serious.. to much identification with his uber (not fat) Space heroes. Just have fun with decent friends and DON'T go over to him to show him a stupid internet forum, that would be childish. Just be a nice sensible grown up and kindly say, that you do not enjoy playing with him. Because of that he can choose to play with another oponent.

EDIT:


To get on his nerves, two of my buddies who hate will convert land raiders to make battle wagons and paint them orky but still expose enough of his chapter colors and hang dead marines in the came colors on said vehicles and maybe my gaming buddies will make some kill marks.

Don't waste your money. That is childish. Buy your mom a present for her birthday, rather then spending 50€ just to tease him.

Arcadian
20-04-2009, 23:12
Um.. Dont lose sleep over it... Ignore it, even when its difficult, let it slide off your back like water.. and I would even go so far as to do nothing to antagonize him. If you do things to antagonize him..(The mentioned land raiders..) you really have no room to complain or such when he continues to be aggressive towards you, as you were at that point, encouraging such behavior.

DaSpaceAsians
20-04-2009, 23:24
That was more of a joke my buddies thought up while the ignoring thing is kind of hard since he always comes to me.

Arcadian
20-04-2009, 23:31
I never said it was easy.. The question is however do you want to be the 'better man' or do you want to just go ahead and stoop to a simmilar level as your 'advesary?' IMHO you are the better man by not letting him get under your skin and not buying into his baiting or need for attention. Being argumentative in any way, sounds to me as if it feeds into the reaction he is trying to get.
Granted this is all advice from some fourty year old guy who thinks that this is not the last of this type of personality you will encounter in your life.. Get in some practice at dealing with such in a positive and gentlemanly manner, and it will take you further in life than being argumentative when there really is no cause to be. Demonstrate the Maturity gap you claim to percieve to him via your own actions.
Take with salt as needed.

DaSpaceAsians
20-04-2009, 23:33
I never said it was easy.. The question is however do you want to be the 'better man' or do you want to just go ahead and stoop to a simmilar level as your 'advesary?' IMHO you are the better man by not letting him get under your skin and not buying into his baiting or need for attention. Being argumentative in any way, sounds to me as if it feeds into the reaction he is trying to get.
Granted this is all advice from some fourty year old guy who thinks that this is not the last of this type of personality you will encounter in your life.. Get in some practice at dealing with such in a positive and gentlemanly manner, and it will take you further in life than being argumentative when there really is no cause to be. Demonstrate the Maturity gap you claim to percieve to him via your own actions.
Take with salt as needed.
I just tell him to go away.

parus_ater
21-04-2009, 09:51
To be honest, it's not an age issue here. I've got to break it to you that you'll meet people like him all your life, the skill is knowing which of these three solutions to apply. They go from the most common to the most unusual solution but none the less valid or effective

1) Ignore. Give him the deaf ear but acknowledge that you know he's there, only you need not worry yourself about him.

2) "Go forth and multiply!". You don't have to swear but make sure that you put enough emphasis on how cold you can be. Swearing does work but only if it's menacing it is, which does bring me to....

2.5) Not really threatening, only cowards threaten people. What you want is to make sure that you are calm and controlled while you tell them what you will do if they continue.

3) Not subtle - take him outside and beat the crap out of him.*







*Parus Ater in no way condones needless violence.**




**This may also go a long way to explaining my warning Level on here!

mr.kislev
21-04-2009, 11:37
what is in his army? if he has any special character you can/might call cheese on that.

Mannimarco
21-04-2009, 11:44
wow ok here we go: your army is cheesy as hell so im going to tell everybody not to play you but im going to beat you easily but first you need to gid rid of the carapace, its cheesy that you get an armour save against my basic ranged attack and you have to limit one of your tanks rangs to 40' but apart from that im a much better player and will destroy you

wow what a fair player, where does it it? your army is cheesy so nobody is going to play you but i'll beat you easily, just let me take 2000pts to your 1500 as well as the other handicaps above

dblaz3r
21-04-2009, 12:11
Create a destroyed SM tank in his Chapter colors, fill it with tissues and give it to him as a gift.


To get on his nerves, two of my buddies who hate will convert land raiders to make battle wagons and paint them orky but still expose enough of his chapter colors and hang dead marines in the came colors on said vehicles and maybe my gaming buddies will make some kill marks.

:D haha classic :D


seriosuly i would have a word with him akin to "i am using legal GW models in a fun game of 40K, if you do not want to play me you are free not to, but i would appreciate it if you stop bothering me or my opponants".

I would have a word with him akin to "You're an idiot, **** off" ;)


I've already told the management and tried ignoring him but he still annoys me.

Well hopefully for you he either cleans up his act or the management step up and actually do something about it.

DaSpaceAsians
21-04-2009, 12:22
Management told him before, might need to do it again
My Friends told him before, might need to do it
Other players just look at him and told him to stop
Ignoring doesn't work, he ignores the fact we ignore him
I told him to stop, doesn't work

He's stubborn.

parus_ater
21-04-2009, 12:26
More like "See you, you're getting cut"

K0tka
21-04-2009, 12:31
oh wow...omg...who the hell uses vanguard with jump-packs anyway ? :wtf:

now, more seriously, I had one guy on our ''private club'' (just friends playing together on saturdays), though he was the IG player and I play Marines...

he uses mostly the standard IG layout, 2 russes and 1 basilisk / 1 Demolisher.
so, he has alot of ap3 and ap2 weapons, he allways pimps hes list aginst my army (hell of alot plasma guns).

He allways says my marines are cheesy becouse of +3 save.. I mean wtf? dude you have S8 AP3 ORDIANCE IN YOUR ARMY. Usualy he just refuses to play aginst me, despite the fact that he have won me most of the times (about 10 games, which from he has won about 5, 1 tie, and I have won maybe 4times :( )

theres allways these jerks around...but still hes very good friend of mine, and usualy I just give up...and play nidz aginst him...and yeah, my winged tyrant is cheese too.. :D

DaSpaceAsians
21-04-2009, 12:45
oh wow...omg...who the hell uses vanguard with jump-packs anyway ? :wtf:



People with zero experience

mughi3
21-04-2009, 13:40
Thanks guys

You've made my awesome day even more awesome.

Question answering now
Legality
I always ask my opponent's consent and he's there telling them not to let me.

Thats very nice of you but not required.
FW made it very clear more than 4 years ago that by agreeing to play you your opponant is giving you all the permission you need. FW units especialy those designed long before apocolypse were designed for normal games of 40K, they are GW models with legal GW rules.

What FW does suggest is that if your planning on using superheavy tanks, titans or flyers of any kind in a normal game you should discuss it first because those units have unique rules outside normal game play.

For example aircraft can normally only be hit on a 6+ on the turn they arrive and have a 12" range penalty from the firing unit. AA platforms such as the hydra hit on normal BS instead of a 6+. So if your planning to use flyer rules it would be the right thing to do to give your opponant the heads up so they can take something to deal with flyers rather than be totally unprepared to deal with them.

jams86
21-04-2009, 16:40
Heck, I'm happy just getting a game going.


too true man, too true :(

anyhoo, if you really wanna get cheesy, save your pennies, get a proper apocalypse sized eldar warhost then add a cobra. then unleash a titan killing d-cannon shot with a 10" blast all over his marines. see how he likes that!

kairous
21-04-2009, 19:31
Don't ever let the kid mentioned in the first post play against a tau gun line then, oh the moaning ;) AP1 CHEESEFEST

evilsponge
21-04-2009, 19:39
DaSpaceAsians, this player you mentioned is harassing you plain and simple, bring up to the store owners again that he is harassing you and that you are tired of it. If they're smart they'll get him to stop or ban him from the store.

edit: wait this guy is 14? Tell him to **** off before he gets a swirly in the store toliet

Yarick Zan
21-04-2009, 20:22
Look his age, or lack there of is no excuse for this. I started playing 40k when I was 15 and I always treated everyone with respect. His age doesn't give him a right to act that way.

DaSpaceAsians
21-04-2009, 22:13
Thats very nice of you but not required.
FW made it very clear more than 4 years ago that by agreeing to play you your opponant is giving you all the permission you need. FW units especialy those designed long before apocolypse were designed for normal games of 40K, they are GW models with legal GW rules.

What FW does suggest is that if your planning on using superheavy tanks, titans or flyers of any kind in a normal game you should discuss it first because those units have unique rules outside normal game play.

For example aircraft can normally only be hit on a 6+ on the turn they arrive and have a 12" range penalty from the firing unit. AA platforms such as the hydra hit on normal BS instead of a 6+. So if your planning to use flyer rules it would be the right thing to do to give your opponant the heads up so they can take something to deal with flyers rather than be totally unprepared to deal with them.

What? That means I've been wasting saliva and breath for the last 5 months asking permission from people.
Now I need to that prove it to him.
Damn

Mannimarco
21-04-2009, 22:17
carful cos theres even a consensus among GW staff that forgeworld = bad and permission has to be asked

i think the quote saying its ok was in IA Apocalypse or maybe Apocalypse reload

DaSpaceAsians
21-04-2009, 22:22
bah my local gaming is an independant retailer and most of the players are cool. The Vanquisher is in IA: Volume 1 which came out before Apocalypse.

Mannimarco
21-04-2009, 22:31
yep and people hate its massive range "cheese! it can hit everything on the table" yeah it was about 50 points more expensive than a russ that could usually cover about 2/3 of a medium sized table

a lot of people are cool but theres as many out there who see forgeworld as cheese incarnate without looking at the points costs (usually too high) and rules (no more broken than anything else)

case and point: autocannon turret chimera nobody played me, multi laser was no problem at all so instead of 2 S7 ap4 shots i have 3 S6 and its fine

DaSpaceAsians
21-04-2009, 22:34
case and point: autocannon turret chimera nobody played me, multi laser was no problem at all so instead of 2 S7 ap4 shots i have 3 S6 and its fine

Ugh, that's what I call a lack of discernment.

Mannimarco
21-04-2009, 22:39
anybody know if cyclops will fall under the new formation rules? is so i can see that being a little cheesy, 9 of these little monsters taking up 3 fast attack choices.....should be a lot of fun

DaSpaceAsians
21-04-2009, 22:44
anybody know if cyclops will fall under the new formation rules? is so i can see that being a little cheesy, 9 of these little monsters taking up 3 fast attack choices.....should be a lot of fun

no idea mate, although it would be funny to see the other guy's face when he sees that.

Mannimarco
21-04-2009, 22:49
hehe cyclops are rare enough that most people just ignore them in favour of shooting the leman russ (or my personal favourite: the exterminator) sitting next to them

for those of you who dont know, the cyclops is a tiny little tank that can fit in the back of the chimera, it costs 25 points, can move 12 inches a turn and when it connects it like a demolition charge with the blast centred over the cyclops, the tank has an armour value of 10 and a penetrating hit scoring a six will blow it up prematurely

scary if im getting 9 of the for 225 points and 3 fast attack slots

DaSpaceAsians
21-04-2009, 23:15
details I've forgot to mention
He only had an audience for a few hours.
Humiliating means got his termies chased off a table by a standard Leman Russ or said termies steam rolled in a span of 5 turns by a Hellhound.
He's the kind of player that one week he says he's doing X army and the next Y army so he can some strategy a smart player did and beat me and my other Guard buddy

Thanks for the fun discussion though

parus_ater
21-04-2009, 23:25
Dude should still get cut, though mate.

Threeshades
21-04-2009, 23:30
Wow, what a sad figure. I think the best solution would be to sit down with him and tell him how to build and field an effective army.

DaSpaceAsians
21-04-2009, 23:32
Dude should still get cut, though mate.

What does that mean? (sorry, My english is excellent except for some expressions)

parus_ater
21-04-2009, 23:36
It's a scottish expression, I'll pm you....

DaSpaceAsians
21-04-2009, 23:42
Wow, what a sad figure. I think the best solution would be to sit down with him and tell him how to build and field an effective army.

He tends to go around asking us what my buddies and I are more afraid for our armies since he wants to beat us to feel better and he thinks that tailoring his list to fight us is the answer. Our answer is: Nothing, there's a way to beat everything in 40k. He insists that we must answer him but we keep telling him that we've given him our answer.

Very funny really, you have to be special (desperate for a victory) to ask what your opponent is afraid of.

Threeshades
21-04-2009, 23:45
He tends to go around asking us what my buddies and I are more afraid for our armies since he wants to beat us to feel better and he thinks that tailoring his list to fight us is the answer. Our answer is: Nothing, there's a way to beat everything in 40k. He insists that we must answer him but we keep telling him that we've given him our answer.

Very funny really, you have to be special to ask what your opponent is afraid of.

Have you tried telling him, he's trying to saddle his horse from behind?

DaSpaceAsians
21-04-2009, 23:48
I gave an honest answer meaning: Don't ask me because I will not give you an impartial answer.

parus_ater
21-04-2009, 23:50
On the base of it, I think he's just jealous that you've paid out the extra and got Forge World tanks, real Gucci stuff.

DaSpaceAsians
21-04-2009, 23:57
I didn't even pay. I just converted the barrels using a couple of pens and some green stuff. As for the rules, their origin is questionnable. I'm actually very limited on funds to be exact whereas he gets (and wastes) 50$ from his parents every week.

Mannimarco
21-04-2009, 23:58
amen to that

parus_ater
22-04-2009, 00:00
:rolleyes: Cut!

At that age I was scraping together all the pennis i could get to pay for my snotling pump wagon addiction... I've still got seven of the buggers! One thing I hate; kids with a higher disposable income than me!

DaSpaceAsians
22-04-2009, 00:07
I actually had a chat with some friends and we noticed how much I can do with so little funding for a Imperial Guard army and how little he does with so much money. I also have to admit that a former employee sold roughly 100 guardsmen and a couple of heavy weapons for 25$.

Mannimarco
22-04-2009, 00:09
and remember ebay is your friend, especially with the release of a new codex, everybody sells their old toys in anticipation of the new ones

theres a good way to pick up stuff

DaSpaceAsians
22-04-2009, 00:14
To tell you the truth, my mother is the one that buys everything for me and my little brother and she's afraid of Ebay

Mannimarco
22-04-2009, 00:24
ouch, long as you use paypal to buy and always buy from people with good feed back score you should be ok

DaSpaceAsians
22-04-2009, 00:37
thanks for the tip but I'm getting a wad of cash for my trip to NY and I'll look up for hobby centers.

JustTony
22-04-2009, 04:21
People like your opponent make me wish dueling was still legal. I have served in the military in combat and words cannot describe how offended and enraged I would be at some kid calling me a coward. Then again some people are of no more use than, as Da Vinci said, " as machines for turning food into *****". Your opponent sound like he falls into that catergory as "human, waste of food, oxygen and space, 1 each".

Find better opponents, and if he continues, discuss his actions with the store manager or owner.

Peace: through playing fun games with reasonable, fair minded opponents.

dblaz3r
22-04-2009, 04:48
:rolleyes: Cut!

At that age I was scraping together all the pennis i could get to pay for my snotling pump wagon addiction... I've still got seven of the buggers! One thing I hate; kids with a higher disposable income than me!

Um I'm guessing there is a huge spelling mistake in that quote somewhere ;)

Lyinar
22-04-2009, 05:43
I'd say build a Leman Russ Executioner with the new Codex. With Plasma Cannon Sponsons.

FIVE PLASMA CANNON SHOTS A TURN!

And then while he concentrates all his firepower on trying to destroy it because he's utterly terrified of the FIVE PLASMA CANNON SHOTS A TURN!, you whittle his army down to nothing with everything else in your list and explain the concept of using bait. Kauyon, it's not just for Tau anymore. ;)

And then have Marbo pop out of nowhere and chuck a demo charge at his commander for fun. :D

Landsknecht
22-04-2009, 06:40
At that age I was scraping together all the pennis i could get to pay for my snotling pump wagon addiction

:eek:

I think once you start "scraping pennis" for a hobby, you've taken it too far.

I jest ;)

nexttothemoon
22-04-2009, 07:56
Lots of issues in this post... and most of them deal with maturity levels, composure and dealing with various personality traits that people have... really the game of 40K is a moot point in all of it.

You will come across people in life... whether they are young or old... that are difficult to deal with due to their (im)maturity levels and their personality traits. Access to money, how people are brought up and what values they are taught at home and by their peers all influence how people act and gaming environments are ironically where so many of these traits come out and expose themselves as you are dealing with issues like perceptions of fairness, self-worth, greed, jealousy and peer pressure inside that gaming environment.

So many emotions are at work in a game that it's easy to say "it's just a game" but many people can't disassociate themselves and their personal values and self esteem from the game they are playing... which is why many get so angry and even violent and often friendships can even be lost when gaming.

Dealing with these types of individuals is hard work. They can be irritating and frustrating and there is no quick easy answer to stop it instantly. They need to learn and grow out of it which takes time.

Saying all that, the best advice is to use your maturity to understand their inadequacies and through patience and non-aggression hopefully they will learn that a) it's a game b) there are rules to the game c) when people play by the rules don't complain... just deal d) if you don't like the rules of the game... shut up, walk away and don't play... find some other hobby or activity you might enjoy more.

Life is too short to make what is supposed to be fun experiences into anger and tension filled sessions.

Those lessons go for anything in life not just 40K and they'll have to learn that throughout their life.

He obviously has personality issues that need working on and although it's frustrating to be around people like that who are constantly annoying... it's a lesson in restraint, patience and perseverance which in itself is useful even for yourself although it will just feel like you are constantly dealing with an annoying gnat that needs to be squashed.

parus_ater
22-04-2009, 09:32
Um I'm guessing there is a huge spelling mistake in that quote somewhere ;)

'e'!!!:p:rolleyes:

Half twelve at night, I'm surprised there isn't more wrong with it.:D

DaSpaceAsians
22-04-2009, 12:46
My buddy came up with a solution. My buddies and I will play him and defeat so many times that he'll leave us alone since the only reason he annoys us is because he comes up to us and claims he's a genius and he could kick our asses even though the only times I've played him, I've wiped him off the battlefield. The only time he ever won was because he cheated by taking advantage of someone not knowing the rules and because he deliberately forced the other player to place himself in a bad spot. Simply to add insult to injury, I won't use Forge World against him. :D

isaac
22-04-2009, 12:49
Then he has won...

Captain Micha
22-04-2009, 12:50
My buddy came up with a solution. My buddies and I will play him and defeat so many times that he'll leave us alone since the only reason he annoys us is because he comes up to us and claims he's a genius and he could kick our asses even though the only times I've played him, I've wiped him off the battlefield. The only time he ever won was because he cheated by taking advantage of someone not knowing the rules and because he deliberately forced the other player to place himself in a bad spot. Simply to add insult to injury, I won't use Forge World against him. :D

Sounds like one of our local Space Marine guys.

Never hold back. Let the hate flow through you. Use the power of the Dark Side. :evilgrin: paste his army again and again, and do it with extra vigor once you get the new guard dex in your hands. He'll wonder why your army is more powerful than it was when you were using Forgeworld.
Before your first game against him with the new guard tell him "Finally I can play you without Nerf Mode being on". After trouncing his face, lose to someone. Don't make it obvious that you are throwing the game per say, but make a mistake here or there that you normally wouldn't.

He'll either wise up, shut up and "lrn2ply" or you'll finally break his fragile ego, causing him to quit the hobby or at least never game with your gaming group again. Especially if you lose to other people, right afterwards. Either way you win.

Lyinar
22-04-2009, 13:07
The reason for my suggestion is because any Marine Player who thinks that Marines drink PowerThirst™ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs) and should therefore win at everything forever (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-3qncy5Qfk), will utterly despise anything that puts out five S7AP2 blast templates and a lascannon shot per turn. He will know that it is made simply and solely to murder his beloved Marines, a whole squad at a time.

And hitting him with Sly Marbo would just add injury to injury. A guy who pops up within an inch of his command squad, hurls a demolition charge at his commander (with BS5) and then either runs away or assaults what's left of his command squad with a knife that wounds on a 2+, and who happens to be based so heavily on John Rambo that Sylvester Stallone could sue Games Workshop were he so inclined? That is multiple kinds of cheesy, but most especially, he is '80s action movie cheesy. :cheese:

DaSpaceAsians
22-04-2009, 13:07
Patience is a must for he has no army before 3 weeks and in 3 weeks it's new IG codex. The Dark Side shall guide my army.

Corrode
22-04-2009, 13:09
Um I'm guessing there is a huge spelling mistake in that quote somewhere ;)

Maybe that's how he paid for the wagon.

parus_ater
22-04-2009, 13:29
Maybe that's how he paid for the wagon.

In todays prices for one of those, you could be right! :D

Corrode
22-04-2009, 14:04
In todays prices for one of those, you could be right! :D

Aren't large all-metal models wonderful? :p

Meriwether
22-04-2009, 18:28
Ugh.

A. Tell him to stop acting his age. (The last thing the world or the hobby needs is teenagers acting their age).

B. If he doesn't shape up, report him to the manager/owner. Specifically, tell the owner/manager that you will consider taking your business elsewhere if his behavior is not curbed -- and do it in as large a group as you can.

C. Avoid the temptation to act _your_ age. You don't need to be rude. You don't need to antagonize him. You have nothing to prove.

Honestly, the way you have stated that you are going to respond to him makes me think that you might very well be part of the problem, and that we're only getting part of the story here. I am more than willing to believe that he is an obnoxious jerk -- but I'm also willing to bet that your responses haven't exactly been aimed at diffusing the situation.

Shed your pride, shed your offense. Be more mature than he is. Be more mature than you want to be.

...or don't. It's your life, kid.

Meri

silentsmoke
22-04-2009, 18:59
I'm a very avid (obsessed) Guard Player who loves the actual Leman Russ Vanquisher ans converted some excellent models and I bring them every time I go to my local gaming club. While I'm playing, there's this guy who comes and starts calling my tanks cheese and starts going around telling people not to play against because I'm a jerk since I use Vanquishers and they outrange every other tank and have the Veterans Skill. He told that me that I'm a coward because I hide my tanks behind my gunline and even told me that don't have a pair since I use ''cheese'' tanks. He's even gone as far as saying that it's cheesy for a Guard tank to have ballistic skill 4. WTF?


I'd crush him wiht my Guard Comapanies, platoons and tanks...

Just ignore him, no skin of your nose.

stompie
22-04-2009, 19:17
I didn't know three year olds could play this game (talking about the guy)

DaSpaceAsians
22-04-2009, 21:59
Ugh.

A. Tell him to stop acting his age. (The last thing the world or the hobby needs is teenagers acting their age).

B. If he doesn't shape up, report him to the manager/owner. Specifically, tell the owner/manager that you will consider taking your business elsewhere if his behavior is not curbed -- and do it in as large a group as you can.

C. Avoid the temptation to act _your_ age. You don't need to be rude. You don't need to antagonize him. You have nothing to prove.

Honestly, the way you have stated that you are going to respond to him makes me think that you might very well be part of the problem, and that we're only getting part of the story here. I am more than willing to believe that he is an obnoxious jerk -- but I'm also willing to bet that your responses haven't exactly been aimed at diffusing the situation.

Shed your pride, shed your offense. Be more mature than he is. Be more mature than you want to be.

...or don't. It's your life, kid.

Meri
Thanks for the advice. The way my friends and I will answer is because of us running of patience.

DaSpaceAsians
23-04-2009, 00:44
Whoever told you this was also being a tool. All GW events allow FW models if they are just run as a normal codex unit, next time pull out the GT rules if he wants to be an ass and smack him upside the head.

Where are they?

Vaktathi
23-04-2009, 00:47
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1390002_gt_player_packet.pdf

DaSpaceAsians
23-04-2009, 00:47
Thank you very much

Vaktathi
23-04-2009, 01:01
Also don't forget that FW is completely and totally owned and run by GW, they use GW email addy's, etc. for someone to say they aren't GW models and aren't allowed to represent normal codex units is basically talking out of their @$$, especially when some codex units (mainly new IG stuff, until recently the Ork Battlewagon, etc) is only available from FW.

DaSpaceAsians
23-04-2009, 01:08
Well I'm more concerned for right now since my 3 Vanquishers aren't official and therefore require opponent's consent for the next 10 days. After that I'm gonna miss my templates and Co-Axial Stormbolters and try to find a new way of killing marines en masse while keeping points down. Upside is that I get rid of the cheese caller/sore loser and finally get peace after months of patience.

Mannimarco
23-04-2009, 11:13
killing marines in masse eh? then what want is the leman russ executioner with plasma cannon sponsons! mmmm 5 s7 ap2 blasts per turn

just add that new cadian tank commander giving BS4 and away you go

Havock
23-04-2009, 12:36
Yes, then you have a 300 point tank.

Mannimarco
23-04-2009, 12:58
yeah i know, the tanks are now grotesqly overpriced :(

DaSpaceAsians
23-04-2009, 13:03
The good thing is that the guy always wants to do 2000-3000pts games and with the main points drain(infantry) in my army going down by 300 pts, it's not a problem. Now I need to find a way to convert one.

Yarick Zan
23-04-2009, 16:15
Wont be too complicated to convert one. Probalby just need some plasticard and a bit of creativity. If you converted Vanquishers with a pen, then you can probably do Executioners. Probably not with a pen though.

Damocles8
23-04-2009, 18:06
yeah i know, the tanks are now grotesqly overpriced :(

Grotesquely priced......I've not found them to be overpriced yet.....Lumbering Behemoth seems to be worth it....

MrMojoZ
23-04-2009, 18:20
Grotesquely priced......I've not found them to be overpriced yet.....Lumbering Behemoth seems to be worth it....

Only the Punisher seems overpriced once you look at how effective it is against most targets.

Mannimarco
23-04-2009, 19:12
isnt there a consensus that sponsons are now overpriced?

DarthFreder
23-04-2009, 19:39
I'm a very avid (obsessed) Guard Player who loves the actual Leman Russ Vanquisher ans converted some excellent models and I bring them every time I go to my local gaming club. While I'm playing, there's this guy who comes and starts calling my tanks cheese and starts going around telling people not to play against because I'm a jerk since I use Vanquishers and they outrange every other tank and have the Veterans Skill. He told that me that I'm a coward because I hide my tanks behind my gunline and even told me that don't have a pair since I use ''cheese'' tanks. He's even gone as far as saying that it's cheesy for a Guard tank to have ballistic skill 4. WTF?
Poor Wieners...
I assume they played something like 8 Assault Cannons and FoD in 4th Ed...:cries:
A Vanquisher costs many points, you got a 4/6 chance of hitting a target or missing completly. What kind of "friends" do you have???

Leo
23-04-2009, 20:27
boy, you guys can sure be glad that the mean bad marine player has already been defined as the bad guy here.

Otherwise the comments and suggested actions in this thread would make you people a lot lower and more pathetic than the original offender ever was.

Then again you're guard players so what else is new?

Yarick Zan
23-04-2009, 20:33
But I'm a Tau and Chaos player.

Anyways Leo thanks for that wonderfully pointless post.


Anyways I think the best thing you can do is wait until the guard codex goes legal in a few days. If he changes his tune then give him a shot. If he finds something else to complain about then.... I dunno give him some flowers and tell him what an upstanding a model example of an adult he is.

DaSpaceAsians
23-04-2009, 21:58
boy, you guys can sure be glad that the mean bad marine player has already been defined as the bad guy here.

Otherwise the comments and suggested actions in this thread would make you people a lot lower and more pathetic than the original offender ever was.

Then again you're guard players so what else is new?

That Marine player is an extreme minority and to be exact I'm not sure if he still plays Marines since he changes his mind and army every week to get to use a different tactic some other smart player did and use it to kick my ass. He actually changed 3 times his mind in one day. Most marine player (99%) at my gaming club are nice people and good sportsman.

Meriwether
23-04-2009, 22:28
boy, you guys can sure be glad that the mean bad marine player has already been defined as the bad guy here.

Otherwise the comments and suggested actions in this thread would make you people a lot lower and more pathetic than the original offender ever was.

Clearly, you did not read _my_ post, which was a model of decorum and maturity. Seriously, dude, don't make blanket statements about everyone in a thread -- I already told the OP not to act his age.

Meri

DaSpaceAsians
23-04-2009, 23:28
Clearly, you did not read _my_ post, which was a model of decorum and maturity. Seriously, dude, don't make blanket statements about everyone in a thread -- I already told the OP not to act his age.

Meri

Now for my real solution.
Tell the management and endure him for as long as needed. No doing insulting models or insults. Whenever he asks me stupid things and says stupid things I'll just ignore him or tell him to ask elsewhere or look at him as if he had grown a second head. If he gives his insulting and unwanted opinions in a rude fashion, I'll just tell the management.

Brother Gabriel
23-04-2009, 23:44
boy, you guys can sure be glad that the mean bad marine player has already been defined as the bad guy here.

Otherwise the comments and suggested actions in this thread would make you people a lot lower and more pathetic than the original offender ever was.

Just wanted to let you know, that i did as well notice some "marine players are bad human beings" statements. So i dont think your post was pointless, but it will be rather fruitless since its "en vogue" to hate the marines.
And since marine players are all stupid little kids, hating them is only the next step.

On topic:
Ignoring him sounds like the only solution. Since falling back to violence will get you trouble, with the local law enforcement authorities.
Or the manager throws him out, which he most likely will not.

Lyinar
24-04-2009, 00:49
boy, you guys can sure be glad that the mean bad marine player has already been defined as the bad guy here.

Otherwise the comments and suggested actions in this thread would make you people a lot lower and more pathetic than the original offender ever was.

Then again you're guard players so what else is new?

I've no hatred of Marine players. Just of outright jackasses who can't even be bothered to act their age when they're 14. When I was in Atlanta and able to visit the GW store there fairly regularly, there were some pretty cool players who were that age.

DaSpaceAsians
24-04-2009, 01:23
On topic:
Ignoring him sounds like the only solution. Since falling back to violence will get you trouble, with the local law enforcement authorities.
Or the manager throws him out, which he most likely will not.

They nearly threw him out once because he was yelling that my group was filled with mutants.

BlackLegion
24-04-2009, 01:30
FW = Cheese? Well Vanquishers are in the new Codex Imperial Guard. So they are pretty legal :D

razormasticator
24-04-2009, 01:39
I'm a very avid (obsessed) Guard Player who loves the actual Leman Russ Vanquisher ans converted some excellent models and I bring them every time I go to my local gaming club. While I'm playing, there's this guy who comes and starts calling my tanks cheese and starts going around telling people not to play against because I'm a jerk since I use Vanquishers and they outrange every other tank and have the Veterans Skill. He told that me that I'm a coward because I hide my tanks behind my gunline and even told me that don't have a pair since I use ''cheese'' tanks. He's even gone as far as saying that it's cheesy for a Guard tank to have ballistic skill 4. WTF?

Have you punched him yet? LOL

DaSpaceAsians
24-04-2009, 02:00
Have you punched him yet? LOL

Nope, they'd kick me out of my gaming club and hitting an idiot because he's a loser is extremely not worth it. That and he'd just push me and sit on me.
Fat guy sitting on me= instant death for me

JustTony
24-04-2009, 02:25
One of my best friend's son is 14 and a very good 40K player. He is also courteous and polite to evryone, even to me with my long gray hair (literally). Age is no barrier to either good behavior or bad behavior. There are a couple of players who are my age (45+) or older who are still complete jerks. Judge the individual on his own merits. And admittedly the problem individual for the OP does sound like a complete (expletive deleleted).

Peace: through good manners and behavior at any age.

DaSpaceAsians
24-04-2009, 12:43
Poor Wieners...
I assume they played something like 8 Assault Cannons and FoD in 4th Ed...:cries:
A Vanquisher costs many points, you got a 4/6 chance of hitting a target or missing completly. What kind of "friends" do you have???

Good friends, that guy isn't not even remotely considered a friend and he only started in 5th edition and the Vanquisher is roughly 270-300pts actually and the standard Russ is 230-250 pts.

Yarick Zan
24-04-2009, 18:13
One of my best friend's son is 14 and a very good 40K player. He is also courteous and polite to evryone, even to me with my long gray hair (literally). Age is no barrier to either good behavior or bad behavior. There are a couple of players who are my age (45+) or older who are still complete jerks. Judge the individual on his own merits. And admittedly the problem individual for the OP does sound like a complete (expletive deleleted).

Peace: through good manners and behavior at any age.

See I agree completely with this. Age in this hobby means squat. Sure you get young kids and everything that were probably top candidates for a pre frontal lobotomy, but you also get the same from adults. After reading through a lot of similar topics to this I find that there is a larger prevailence of adults acting like children than teenagers acting like children.

Maybe I'm biased though. I mean my parents raised me properly, I am polite and curteous to everyone unless they are rude to my first. I will apologize honestly and so on and I am only 19 and have been playing this game for 3 years now.

Meriwether
24-04-2009, 19:41
See? A teenager not acting his age. It's a beautiful thing! :D

Meri

DaSpaceAsians
30-04-2009, 12:19
One of my best friend's son is 14 and a very good 40K player. He is also courteous and polite to evryone, even to me with my long gray hair (literally). Age is no barrier to either good behavior or bad behavior. There are a couple of players who are my age (45+) or older who are still complete jerks. Judge the individual on his own merits. And admittedly the problem individual for the OP does sound like a complete (expletive deleleted).

Peace: through good manners and behavior at any age.


That's true since most kids at my old GW and independant retailer are nice kids and the teens are bit of a minority. Besides my friends and I, I've seen few other teens and the few teens are really polite.

JustTony
30-04-2009, 13:05
Of course Rick, the owner at Pet Shop Comics where I regularly play, would likely toss someone acting like this out of the store. There is a definitive limit to what he will put up with. Then again, PSC is one of the best LGS's in the Southeastern US, check it out if you ever get a chance.

Peace: through friendly gaming venues, wherever they are.

Da_Killa
30-04-2009, 13:08
i get these problems all the time other players (usualy little kids that play eldar & tau) telling me my lists are lame and stupid just because in 1000pts i take 20 assault marines and shrike.then i just go about completely anhilating them(this solves most problems)

Frontier
30-04-2009, 15:51
i get these problems all the time other players (usualy little kids that play eldar & tau) telling me my lists are lame and stupid just because in 1000pts i take 20 assault marines and shrike.then i just go about completely anhilating them(this solves most problems)


I am a big fan of this tactic for getting idiots to shut the hell up.

DaSpaceAsians
30-04-2009, 23:01
Of course Rick, the owner at Pet Shop Comics where I regularly play, would likely toss someone acting like this out of the store. There is a definitive limit to what he will put up with. Then again, PSC is one of the best LGS's in the Southeastern US, check it out if you ever get a chance.

Peace: through friendly gaming venues, wherever they are.

Lucky you since the staff at our place never came close to kicking that guy since he's a big spender. 50$ a week every week is a good thing for a buisness. Since it's also the only place that we can play we can't really go anywhere else. We're lucky since every time one of my buddy comes for some unknown reason, the guy doesn't come. Unfortunately, my friend comes once every 1 month and half. Must be that fact he can effectively shut the guy by saying one well worded phrase.

Pooky
01-05-2009, 04:37
just out of curiosity, how old is this cheese caller?

Agreed, how old is he? 5? Tell him to grow up and stop being a baby.

DaSpaceAsians
01-05-2009, 11:33
Agreed, how old is he? 5? Tell him to grow up and stop being a baby.

14 years old and he know longer shows up since apparently he seems to have realized that no one wants him around which is quite an improvement and allowed my friends, the veterans and I to finally play against each other in peace.

DaSpaceAsians
25-06-2009, 12:44
Sorry about resurrecting this thread but I need your help once more against the same guy. Nowadays it's against my named characters since I'm someday if I ever get a game going going to use a couple of conversions as Creed/Kell, Chenkov, Al'rahem and Pask. He challenged a couple of my friends and I but the first thing he does is ask if the opponent has named characters and tries to prevent us from using them by whining about being overpowered and chessy and finally backing down even though he says he's using Shrike or Belial. His excuse why he can use Belial is because of Belial not being that good and of course for the Deathwing. As for Shrike, well I've got no idea why he's not overpowered according to him.

Bloodknight
25-06-2009, 13:23
Special Characters are nowadays a legitimate part of the army list. Tell him to suck it and man up a bit.

laudarkul
25-06-2009, 13:34
Seeing all special characters discussions (who's who and who's who), make me enjoy the fact that in our game-club SC are allowed only when you tell your opponent about the presence of a SC in your army list. And I never field one of those (I'm play for one and half year 40k). But Straken model just make me reconsider this:D.
As for that guy just let him be (it's a stupid idiot without a proper education) but if he continues to act as a jerk tell about his behavior to the the red shirts =][=.

DaSpaceAsians
25-06-2009, 13:34
Special Characters are nowadays a legitimate part of the army list. Tell him to suck it and man up a bit.
Forget manning him up since he says that it's manlier by not playing special characters and constantly quotes ''Play like you've got a pair'' to press his point.


Seeing all special characters discussions (who's who and who's who), make me enjoy the fact that in our game-club SC are allowed only when you tell your opponent about the presence of a SC in your army list. And I never field one of those (I'm play for one and half year 40k). But Straken model just make me reconsider this:D.

I always warn other players of the presence of named characters. I consider it fairer and there is no redshirt :cries:since it's an independant retailer and most of the staff are against named characters.

Znail
25-06-2009, 13:36
Ignore is the answer, not just act like you are ignoring him but actualy tune him out. This isnt that difficult if he is talking in normal conversational tone. If he starts to yell or get physical to get attention anyway, then you can sick the management on him to get him thrown out.

DaSpaceAsians
25-06-2009, 13:44
Ignore is the answer, not just act like you are ignoring him but actualy tune him out. This isnt that difficult if he is talking in normal conversational tone. If he starts to yell or get physical to get attention anyway, then you can sick the management on him to get him thrown out.

He tends to be on the edge of yelling everytime we mention that we're going use named characters and some of the staff pretty much encourage him because they hate named characters and will refuse to play people if they use characters but they don't rant but express themselves in a civilized fashion.

Bloodknight
25-06-2009, 13:46
''Play like you've got a pair''

That is especially hilarious since it is a Privateer Press slogan, and Warmachine isn't even playable without special characters ^^.

EVIL INC
25-06-2009, 13:49
Personally, I just jaugh at people like that regardless of thier age. On the forgeworld stuff, if they dont like it, they dont need to play. Same goes for SC. if my codex says I dont need permission, I wont ask for it. If they throw a fit, play someone else. If they throw a fit and are using them themself, more so the reason to have a few chuckles at his expense. Better if others are watching.
They go out of thier way to try to stop others from playing me? Thats an even bigger reason to laugh at them. Most gamers I know make thier own choices on how they feel about others. If they have someone try to make thier minds up for them, they will make it up... Against the pushy one trying to force them.

They tell me to "play like I got a pair", I laugh at them as well.
"You mean as in manly?" "Manly as in playing with toy soldiers?" "Play the game or quit kid, a real man can play without having to toss a hissy."
Then proceed to give him a REAL reason to whine by totally destroying his army on the field of battle. When his guys fail thier morale /pinning ect tests, say "Oh my, they must not have a pair." When thier characters or especially named characters die, make girly crying noises and say "Oh my, they must be related to you. They die as though they dont have a pair". Throw his own arguments back at him.

DaSpaceAsians
25-06-2009, 13:56
That is especially hilarious since it is a Privateer Press slogan, and Warmachine isn't even playable without special characters ^^.

Human stupidity and hypocrisy knows no bounds then

Lavadude360
25-06-2009, 14:00
Why has this thread gone on for 8 pages? Just tell the kid he either needs to, and use these exact words,

"(STFU) and leave me alone, I strongly suggest you take a look at your immature behavour or no-one will play you. Also put all of your minis in brake fuid and send them to my home address."

Meriwether
25-06-2009, 14:07
I would respond to all of this by asking him, "Does your [word that starts with a V and is possessed by approximately half of the human population] hurt? Awww..."

But then, I am reknown world-wide for my tolerance, politeness, and strict adherence to etiquette.

Meri

DaSpaceAsians
25-06-2009, 14:09
Why has this thread gone on for 8 pages? Just tell the kid he either needs to, and use these exact words,

"(STFU) and leave me alone, I strongly suggest you take a look at your immature behavour or no-one will play you. Also put all of your minis in brake fuid and send them to my home address."
We've been telling to shut up every weekend from september 2008 up today and nothing works dammit!:mad:

madd0ct0r
25-06-2009, 14:38
then, sadly, probably nothing ever will.

just look forward to uni. trust me.

madd0ct0r
25-06-2009, 14:44
EDIT. doule post

SharpSilver
25-06-2009, 16:31
How old is this guy?

DaSpaceAsians
25-06-2009, 16:45
How old is this guy?

14 years old physically but not sure mentally

starlight
25-06-2009, 17:08
150 Posts over two months and only one useful one...


Ugh.

A. Tell him to stop acting his age. (The last thing the world or the hobby needs is teenagers acting their age).

B. If he doesn't shape up, report him to the manager/owner. Specifically, tell the owner/manager that you will consider taking your business elsewhere if his behavior is not curbed -- and do it in as large a group as you can.

C. Avoid the temptation to act _your_ age. You don't need to be rude. You don't need to antagonize him. You have nothing to prove.

Honestly, the way you have stated that you are going to respond to him makes me think that you might very well be part of the problem, and that we're only getting part of the story here. I am more than willing to believe that he is an obnoxious jerk -- but I'm also willing to bet that your responses haven't exactly been aimed at diffusing the situation.

Shed your pride, shed your offense. Be more mature than he is. Be more mature than you want to be.

...or don't. It's your life, kid.

Meri

Aside from this one, it sounds like a bunch of whiny internet bullies who can't deal with a single potentially disadvantaged child... :eyebrows: For crying out loud, he's 14!?!?! What are you? 12? :rolleyes:

Man up, quit whining about it on the Internet (you aren't going to get any better advice than Meri's), tell the kid that this sort of behaviour means no more opponents and ignore him until it changes, tell the owner/staff that allowing this sort of behaviour (from anyone, not specifically this kid) means no more business and stop shopping there until they deal with it.

If the unproductive negativity continues, expect the Thread to be Closed.

Nexus Trimean
25-06-2009, 17:21
I agree with you some starlight, however this is an effective method to blow off steam and not injure another person. Go with meri's First idea, Ignore the kid, tell him not to talk to you, find others to play.

IF he comes and interups your game, apologize to the other player for the interuption and tell him that the kid has a persona vendetta (no not the mini) against you and the imperial guard, hence his dergoatory comments.

Or "Yes (kids name) I know you dont like me or the imperial Guard, but I am trying to have fun here, you are ruining it, please leave me alone and go play your own game."

That way if he wont anyone around you knows that its because he is being a jerk and specifically trying to ruin you, and your opponents fun.

Sir_Lunchalot
25-06-2009, 17:38
If you can't use special characters 'cause they're overpowered, then he can't use belial 'cause he's overpowered. or librarians, thoe guys are cheese to. in fact, everything other than tactical marines is overpowered and he's not allowed. Seriously though, if this guy refuses to play you, good riddance!

As for dealing with him ruinign games he's not a part of, You either hope that he miraculously becomes an enlightened individual and grows up, or you find a new venue. Either find another FLGS or just put a gaming table in your basement. Now, correct em if I'm wrong, but isn't there a GW in Laval? If you go the basement route, just go to the store every now and then to meet new people and when you find one you like, invite him over for a game the next weekend. If the management at a gaming store encourages someone to be a tool, they don't deserve your business.

DaSpaceAsians
25-06-2009, 17:49
If you can't use special characters 'cause they're overpowered, then he can't use belial 'cause he's overpowered. or librarians, thoe guys are cheese to. in fact, everything other than tactical marines is overpowered and he's not allowed. Seriously though, if this guy refuses to play you, good riddance!

As for dealing with him ruinign games he's not a part of, You either hope that he miraculously becomes an enlightened individual and grows up, or you find a new venue. Either find another FLGS or just put a gaming table in your basement. Now, correct em if I'm wrong, but isn't there a GW in Laval? If you go the basement route, just go to the store every now and then to meet new people and when you find one you like, invite him over for a game the next weekend. If the management at a gaming store encourages someone to be a tool, they don't deserve your business.

It closed but the time it was opened, the staff always made sure he didn't disturb and annoy people. They also made sure he didn't become a tool .That's why nowadays, every time we mention it, he looks very angry.

Illiterate Scribe
25-06-2009, 18:20
To second Starlight - this guy doesn't sound like the easiest guy to be around, but making a thread on an internet forum to get moral support and ideas of how to get revenge on him (DaSpaceAsians didn't ask for it, but that's sure what he got) isn't particularly pleasant either, especially with its self-propagating nature. Conciliation should be the key.

14 years old - I mean ...

EVIL INC
25-06-2009, 19:31
I had a post I made earlier but I cant find it. I will repost it here...

If a player acts like a jerk, you dont have to play them. Simple as that. If they decide to run and tell others not to play you, they are only hurting themselves as most gamers like to make thier own decisions on who they will and wont play. Chances are, they will see how he acts and not listen to him, play you anyway or they will perform many of the actions suggested by others earlier in the thread. See the humor in his predicament he is putting himself into, get a good laugh and move on as with his behavior, he will not.
Who knows, he might eventually learn his lesson and become a "good" gamer or member of the gaming community.

Awilla the Hun
25-06-2009, 22:03
Why does everyone hate 14 year olds?

At that time-I do not remember precisely-I was doing one of two things with regards to warhammer 40,000:

1) Losing silently and meekly with Chaos and Tyranids, and not really enjoying the game very much.

2) Starting up the Imperial Guard, with an intention towards making a feudal world style red coat army, with Empire bodies, lasguns, carapace armour hardened fighters, and a lot of close combat madness. Oh how my aspirations changed... (Happily, I have improved.)

Was I an immature idiot with regards to gaming? No. I let my opponent win gracefully (I was used to it, having rarely won myself.) I certainly did not brag about my enormous gaming achievements. I did not use the OP units of the 3.5 edition of the Chaos codex; I had an (even worse than present) style of painting, appauling glueing skills, and a tragically limited budget that did not let me go any further.

I also did not have two marvellous army building (and advice seeking) resources that I have now: a mature human brain, and Warseer. (Hooray!) I did not plan ahead in my army making. The result was the mad, deranged attempt at heroic Necron Hunting (Ordo Necrontyr) chaos marines who looked hideous (golder than Jimmy Saville) and played even worse. My tactical knowledge was based around watching Lord of the Rings movies, and realising that the good guys who stood on the defensive just won. Now, happily, I know better.

I was a bad player. But that is all. There are odious 16 year old players too.

starlight
25-06-2009, 22:20
I'll suggest you're reading a *lot* more into the discussion than what is really there. No one has ever displayed anything towards *14 year olds*. Comments have been made about a specific gamer, who happens to be 14, but none of the complaints are related to his age, and all are related to his behaviour...which may be a symptom of his age, but is not the whole story.

There are good and bad players at every single age level, bar none.

BuFFo
25-06-2009, 22:26
Thats very nice of you but not required.
FW made it very clear more than 4 years ago that by agreeing to play you your opponant is giving you all the permission you need.

FW never called my house and told me this.

Show me where the permission is given otherwise it never happened.

In my area its simple. You buy two books to play the game as required by the rules; The main rule book and your army codex. Says it right in the rules those are what you need to play the game. Nothing about a company called Forge World anywhere in any book at all is required/needed allowed to be used.

If I show up to a game, and you show up to a game, but I don't have access to a 80 - 100 dollar FW book, you need to ask first. At least army codexes I can buy myself and read off the rack.

As far as 40k is concerned, FW is just a bunch of house rules.

Now if you can show me where GW and FW agreed to interchange rules, please do! That would help me out BIG TIME as I can make those LatD lists without remorse finally.

starlight
25-06-2009, 22:30
Sadly the only place it says that FW is official is in the FW books... :(

Which sucks for some people, but if you bring your FW stuff, I'll play you. :)

Mannimarco
25-06-2009, 22:39
FW never called my house and told me this.

Show me where the permission is given otherwise it never happened.




its in imperial armour one i think

but then again thats an old book and before the new rules and doesnt apply any more cos its all out and outdated etc etc *insert argument here why im not allowed to take forgeworld stuff*

you wanna use forgeworld stuff? go right ahead, ill play you, you wanna take a great spined chaos beast as one of your heavy supports? thats cool go for it

the only thing people should draw the line at is titans and superheavies, "1500pts game? cool oh wait you have a titan, thats not fair" is just slightly different from "1500pts game? cool oh wait youve got a sentinel powerlifter"

Khanaris
25-06-2009, 22:54
Imperial Armour was the original Apocalypse. So some of the same social contract theory should apply. If you are showing up for a regular game, you should not be bringing Titans or flyers and expecting to use them without permission. Period. They can not be fielded with the normal rules, so your opponent deserves notice in advance. So that they can build their own list with that balance in mind (AA weapons, etc.).

Things like variant tanks and battlesuits are almost always overcosted in IA publications. Your opponent should appreciate that you are using interesting units that aren't as cost-effective as those from your codex.

BuFFo
26-06-2009, 01:23
FW needs to put that little blurb in all their books, and GW needs to put it up on their website in some errata or something.

Make my LAtD army's life much easier.

Vaktathi
26-06-2009, 04:57
FW never called my house and told me this.

Show me where the permission is given otherwise it never happened.
Intro to the Imperial Armour books.



In my area its simple. You buy two books to play the game as required by the rules; The main rule book and your army codex. Says it right in the rules those are what you need to play the game. Nothing about a company called Forge World anywhere in any book at all is required/needed allowed to be used. It doesn't say anything else is excluded though either. Forgeworld is an entirely GW owned and operated venture, everything they produce is has an official 40k stamp on it, and they are located in the same building as GW's HQ.

IA:2 has a section in it, where the author discusses the oddities of officialdom, "the idea that an ork warboss or eldar farseer can somehow object to the use of the Land Raider Helios or Tarantula Sentry guns is strange". It basically states that by agreeing to play you, they are agreeing to playing against your miniatures collection.

While things that are taken outside the normal FoC or don't work under the basic rulebook rules require permission as they require an alternate FoC in the first place (and thus a nonstandard mission), unit variants and the like really shouldn't, especially as almost all of them are horifically overcosted choices anyway (look at the Hydra, which went from 200pts to 75 after it was put in the codex), and many are now, or at some point were (and are now again) official codex units (Vanquishers and Exterminators went from codex, to IA, to Codex again)




If I show up to a game, and you show up to a game, but I don't have access to a 80 - 100 dollar FW book, you need to ask first. At least army codexes I can buy myself and read off the rack. So does that apply to Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, Eye of Terror lists, etc? None of them are available off the rack, some haven't been for years.

BuFFo
26-06-2009, 05:43
Intro to the Imperial Armour books.

I don''t see that anywhere except in IA,l and thats what, 8 years old or something?


It doesn't say anything else is excluded though either.

So I can use GI Joes?


Forgeworld is an entirely GW owned and operated venture, everything they produce is has an official 40k stamp on it, and they are located in the same building as GW's HQ.

Yes, I understand that, but in the 40k rule book, you know, the base rule book required to play the game, there is a section at the beginning that tells you what you are required to have to play the game.

No Forgeworld stuff mentioned. Just like no CoD, or Apoc, or any other 'supplement'.

And then no where in the entire book does the game mention in the rules about Forgeworld stuff. Not in the FOC chart, nothing. You are just told ot make your army from your codex and thats it.


IA:2 has a section in it, where the author discusses the oddities of officialdom, "the idea that an ork warboss or eldar farseer can somehow object to the use of the Land Raider Helios or Tarantula Sentry guns is strange". It basically states that by agreeing to play you, they are agreeing to playing against your miniatures collection.

He can discuss the oddities all he wants. What he and his GW slave masters need to do is make it official somewhere besides in a single IA book made nearly a decade ago.


So does that apply to Space Wolves, Dark Eldar Eye of Terror lists, etc? None of them are available off the rack, some haven't been for years.

Yes they are. Check the back of the 40k Rule book. :) Weapons and all. So if you don't have a DE codex, but your opponent does, you know the army is still official, included in the back of the book, and you can know general knowledge about their weapons and units.

And Eye of Terror is a supplement. No different than Kroot lists, which are 'made' by GW but are not included in GW Gts.

Basically, in my area, to know what is accepted for ease of play between strangers we all use what GW allows in their GT tourneys. But I haven't come across anyone who has refused to play against a IA unit in many years. But there is a difference between what is permission based and what is accepted no matter what. In my area, even if the answer to "can I use this" is ALWAYS a "I don't care, lets play!", the fact the permission is there scares players from making stuff like Kroot lists, that while are sanctioned and created by GW / Forgeworld, is never accepted as official is what bugs me.

Especially after GW / FW will make a cool army list, like genestealers or Kroot, just to ignore the people who bought the models entirely.

Its really hard to figure whast going on sometimes with GW.

Vaktathi
26-06-2009, 06:25
I don''t see that anywhere except in IA,l and thats what, 8 years old or something?
Which IA 1? there is Imperial Armour 1 (that's like from 2000 or something), then Imperial Armour *Volume* 1 which came out several years later.




Yes, I understand that, but in the 40k rule book, you know, the base rule book required to play the game, there is a section at the beginning that tells you what you are required to have to play the game.

No Forgeworld stuff mentioned. Just like no CoD, or Apoc, or any other 'supplement'. Technically, it doesn't even say you need a codex, just the rulebook, only that "it's a good idea" to get the codex. It refers to the codex's as they contain the army lists and whatnot and that you should buy them, but many IA books (IA3 and later) which are basically treated as self contained codex's have the same stuff and simply are entitled "imperial armor X" instead of "codex X". Like the IA:6 Vraksian traitors list, it's a self contained army list, mainly cut and pasted from the old IG codex, but still self contained.



And then no where in the entire book does the game mention in the rules about Forgeworld stuff. Not in the FOC chart, nothing. You are just told ot make your army from your codex and thats it. which again, could be an IA book that contains an army list. At that point it's the difference in the book title, nothing more really.




He can discuss the oddities all he wants. What he and his GW slave masters need to do is make it official somewhere besides in a single IA book made nearly a decade ago. That's the thing, there really isn't a solid definition of "official" for normal play from GW, they leave that up to players. That and more recent IA books make the same point as IA:2.




Yes they are. Check the back of the 40k Rule book. :) Weapons and all. So if you don't have a DE codex, but your opponent does, you know the army is still official, included in the back of the book, and you can know general knowledge about their weapons and units. But no special rules, army composition, equipment, point costs etc... only unit and weapon stats. That and it contains multiple errors and omits many of the special rules for various weapons and units (like the Talos Sting's wildfire). Not to mention it's outdated for several armies. If someone's using an IA unit, they should have the book to show you exactly what the unit does, and in all likelyhood, nothing that takes more than a cursory glance to understand "oh, a Leman Russ Annihilator replaces it's battlecannon with a Twin Linked Lascannon, a Quad Launcher is S5 AP5 Heavy 4 Blast/Barrage but must spend a turn not firing after every 2 turns of fire, a Land Raider Helios has a Whirlwind launcher but loses it's heavy bolter and halves its transport capacity".

Furthermore, the rulebook makes no claim that the reference list has anything to do with officialdom, and makes it clear its only for reference.



And Eye of Terror is a supplement. No different than Kroot lists, which are 'made' by GW but are not included in GW Gts. They used to be. GT's also are not the arbiter of "officialdom" nor are they consistent. What is legal at the US GT may not be at the UK GT or at another GT (IIRC the Armored Company was legal up through 2007 at the US GT, and where it wasn't after 2005 in the UK GT I believe). Normal play legalities != tournament play legalities. Tournaments are their own microcosm, with their own rules. If GT's banned all armies but Eldar and Tau, it wouldn't mean you couldn't play Chaos Daemons in normal play for instance.




Basically, in my area, to know what is accepted for ease of play between strangers we all use what GW allows in their GT tourneys. Ah, but that in itself is basically "house rules" as well, especially as what is allowed at GT's varies from year to year and place to place.


But I haven't come across anyone who has refused to play against a IA unit in many years. But there is a difference between what is permission based and what is accepted no matter what.Understandable, but to the same extent, that applies to anything. I probably wouldn't play a double-lash/9 Oblit army with my old IG Stormtrooper army anymore than I'd play against an Eldar Vampire superheavy flyer with it either.


In my area, even if the answer to "can I use this" is ALWAYS a "I don't care, lets play!", the fact the permission is there scares players from making stuff like Kroot lists, that while are sanctioned and created by GW / Forgeworld, is never accepted as official is what bugs me. yeah, it's a problem and GW seems to go out of its way to shoot itself in the foot by not supporting FW and their supplements more, but that boils down the the problem that there isn't really any "official" list that determines legality for normal play, only for GT's, which people tend to use even though it's just sort of it's own thing.




Especially after GW / FW will make a cool army list, like genestealers or Kroot, just to ignore the people who bought the models entirely.

Its really hard to figure whast going on sometimes with GW. Well...my instinct is that they don't either. Looking at their upper management decisions, which I will avoid detailing here lest another warning come my way, they simply seem to not have any codified idea of what they want to do or how to effectively market and grow their business.

Baragash
26-06-2009, 09:48
There's nothing requiring anyone to play against any Codex of any sort.

The entire game requires your opponents permission.

(Obviously in the case of a tournament or event you have agreed to play against anything in the tournament pack by signing up for it).

ashc
26-06-2009, 11:00
I honestly still cannot believe players have such a serious problem with Forgeworld stuff. If people were trying to bring Titans and heavy Flyers into 1500 pt. games I can understand, but seriously, everything else is fair game. Half the stuff has ended up in the new Imperial Guard codex anyway!

Ash

JustTony
05-07-2009, 04:32
I honestly still cannot believe players have such a serious problem with Forgeworld stuff. If people were trying to bring Titans and heavy Flyers into 1500 pt. games I can understand, but seriously, everything else is fair game. Half the stuff has ended up in the new Imperial Guard codex anyway!

Ash

Yep, the only things they missed from IA 1 are the Destroyer Tank Hunter, the Thunder Siege Tank, the Leman Russ Conqueror, the two Salamander vehicles, Command and Scout and the autocannon turrets for Chimeras, that last one was the one I wanted most, darn it.

As far as I am concerned anything that isn't a flyer or superheavy that comes from the IA series of books is fair game. You paid a LOT for it, you should use it as you please. If you play against me, the flyers and superheavies are fine as well, just let me know about them in advance (so I can bring out my own big toys! :evilgrin:) and I'll be happy to play against them.

Peace: though cool looking model tanks.

Stronginthearm
06-07-2009, 03:26
He goes around barging in my discussions with my gaming buddies about house rules and forge world stuff and claims that I asked his opinion in my mind and he heard since he's ''psychic''

I ahven't heard anything this stupid since I listened to 2 stoned freshman discussing seeing the future and natural philosophy, and they were really stupid to begin with

DaSpaceAsians
06-07-2009, 14:38
I ahven't heard anything this stupid since I listened to 2 stoned freshman discussing seeing the future and natural philosophy, and they were really stupid to begin with

Meh, I just stare at him with "You're a Dumb***" written all over my face. Even if he could read in my mind, I don't even think in the same language I talk. Ah the joys of knowing and speaking 3 languages.

DaSpaceAsians
06-07-2009, 16:46
This person sounds like a crying Spesh Mehrine fanboy who can't take the ******** of losing to Guard. You paid for your FW stuff, you use it as you see fit :)

Leman Russ Squadron-130$
Green Stuff-12$
3 Bic Pens- Less then 1$

Seeing an idiot whine about the overpowered tanks of the Guard-Priceless

There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's MasterCard :)
Ironically I have little income but roughly 2500pts of Horde Guard. He has less then 1500pts of Deathwing.