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LKHERO
20-04-2009, 17:04
First, the case of the unkillable Mage.


Talisman of Saphery - Magical Weapons of enemy models in base to base with the character have no special effects. Treat the weapon as a normal type of its kind.

Folariath's Robe - Wearer of this cloak can only be hit by magic attacks (for example, magical weapons or attacks from Daemons or Ethereal creatures).

So a Archmage with both items cannot be killed basically in CC? The AM can only be hit by magical attacks and magical weapons are mundane in BtB.

That means he can only be killed by Magic Missiles? What about "magically" equipped arrows by Wood Elves?

Then, the question of Magic Resistance.


My unit champion has the Amulet of Fire which gives him fire immunity and MR1. The unit he's in carries a Banner of Arcane Protection which gives the unit MR2. Is the unit MR3 as a whole?

Third, Caradryan's attacks.


It says: Phoenix Blade counts as flaming attacks. In addition, it causes not one, but D3 wounds against enemies US2 or greater.

Does this mean that if he does 2 wounds at S5 flaming, that it actually does 2-6 wounds at S5 flaming? Or does this only apply the enemy fails his wound, then you apply the D3 wounds to the target. Example: He takes 1 wound, it multiplies to D3. The weapon description does not indicate that "each unsaved wound", it just says "causes not one, but D3".

Thanks in advance.

Malorian
20-04-2009, 17:08
This combo came up in the the arena of death.


In actual game play though it isn't that good. Unlike 40k you don't auto-win if you can't be hurt and static res will break you and lose you your expensive archmage.

Save those points for more helpful gear and just protect him by putting him in a unit.

Monsterzonk
20-04-2009, 17:12
Well, even magic missiles can only be targeted at him as long as he's on his own. When he's in a unit, the only ranged thing I can think of right now is the first spell of the Lore of Nurgle, which explicitly lets the caster pick the target.

In combat, there are several units that have magical attacks, without necessarily wielding magic weapons, and as such they wouldn't be turned non-magical by the Talisman of Saphery and could still hurt the Archmage.
I'm thinking of Grail Knights and Forest Spirits here. Don't have the Daemons Army Book, but I think their attacks might be magical as well.

Of course, the mage can also still be slain when caught after breaking from combat. But it is a mean combination of magic items against most armies...


EDIT: Hey! You've edited the question! Alright...

no. 2: I'd say no, but I'm not sure.

no. 3: I would read it just as you do. The wounds are multiplied after the to-wound roll, but before any saves.

stripsteak
20-04-2009, 17:27
1) yes the combo makes him (mostly) immune in cc, as mentioned things with naturally magical attacks are still dangerous. magic arrows of wood elves count as magical attacks. but not arrows fired from their magical bows. it's in their faq.

2) MR is not cumulative unless specifically stated in the item. ie taking multiple gnoblar thiefstones for ogres. you would use the highest MR available to the unit. MR2 until the banner is lost then MR1 after that.

3) against models of US2+ it functions like a multi wound weapon. see pg31 for the rules on multiple wound weapons.

Autobot HQ
20-04-2009, 17:32
Magic resistance doesn't stack, in any way, so you'd take the higher MR, in your example being MR2 from the Arcane standard.

WLBjork
20-04-2009, 19:41
Definitely not unkillable.

Magic bows/arrows, Skaven Guns, Runed Warmachines, spells such as Rule of Burning Iron (pick a model) and Curse of Years (hit every model in the unit) would all be able to injure the character - and that's very quick and dirty..

LKHERO
20-04-2009, 19:43
Definitely not unkillable.

Magic bows/arrows, Skaven Guns, Runed Warmachines, spells such as Rule of Burning Iron (pick a model) and Curse of Years (hit every model in the unit) would all be able to injure the character - and that's very quick and dirty..

And which of those can work in CC?

That's what I'm trying to get at. It's nigh unkillable in CC.. except for those of Carine Wraiths or Daemons..

You would be a fool to run him on foot somewhere out of a unit.

Monsterzonk
20-04-2009, 20:07
Most units with magical CC attacks have already been mentioned: Bretonnian Grail Knights (and Characters with the Grail Vow), all Forest Spirits, Daemons, Ethereal creatures.

@ WLBjork: Magic bows do not necessarily shoot magical arrows. In fact, the only one that does is the Empire's Dragon Bow. All other magic bows shoot mundane arrows, except of course if Wood Elves buy magic arrows in addition, but then most of their magic bows don't get to use their special rules when used together with magic arrows...

Cheers,
Monsterzonk :skull:

Cats Laughing
20-04-2009, 21:36
1 and 2 have been answered rather clearly.

I think for 3, your were wondering hoe the wounding processes goes, right?

I think it goes:

Phoenix Blade wounds a Tree
US >= 2, so turn wound into d3 wounds
then double for fire.

AMWOOD co
20-04-2009, 23:30
Multiple wounds is always done after all saves. The way that flaming attacks would interact with D3 wounds on flamable things is simple: D3 wounds and then double it. They take armour, ward, and then get pulverized by the massive 2, 4, or 6 wounds.

Dealing with the magic item combo mentioned above... Chaos knights with ensorcelled weapons, the spell flaming sword of rhune and a few other close combat enhancers, and simply tearing apart the unit he's in. Even Swordmasters fall to a well placed chariot charge (much as I dislike my swordmasters dying so). Yes, everything else mentioned above also works, but it seems a great deal of points for a character who's job is to blast the enemy apart and not fight to use both those items.

nosferatu1001
20-04-2009, 23:30
You apply wound multiplers after the wound has occured, i.e. any saves have been failed, so the Treeman would take his armour save, etc.

garythewargamer
21-04-2009, 00:22
I believe that pretty much answers all of the questions.

WLBjork
21-04-2009, 03:37
@ WLBjork: Magic bows do not necessarily shoot magical arrows. In fact, the only one that does is the Empire's Dragon Bow. All other magic bows shoot mundane arrows, except of course if Wood Elves buy magic arrows in addition, but then most of their magic bows don't get to use their special rules when used together with magic arrows...

Not clear I know, but that is why I put magic bows/arrows, meaning whichever is appropriate.

The only bows that don't perform magical attacks are those of the WE and DE.



And which of those can work in CC?

That's what I'm trying to get at. It's nigh unkillable in CC.. except for those of Carine Wraiths or Daemons.

All of which you missed in your question. None of those are Magic Missiles, yet would still affect the character.


The combo would work against most armies, but VC and DoC can certainly do plenty of "mundane" magical CC attacks.