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AMWOOD co
21-04-2009, 00:16
I had a game a while ago (about a month now I think) that I used this list in. It was the first battle that my buddy used the new lizardman book and this was only my second full game with my new Chaos Warriors book. Here's the list:

Sorceror Lord of Tzeentch
lvl 4, Bloodskull Pendant, Collar of Khorne, Enchanted Shield, Spell Familiar, Soporific Musk
410

Daemon Prince of Tzeetnch
lvl 4 wizard, Word of Agony, Diabolic Splendour, Fury of the Blood God
570

Exalted Hero of Tzeetnch
Battle standard, halberd, shield, Banner of the Gods
279

25 Marauders of Slaanesh
full command, flails
155

25 Marauders of Slaanesh
full command, flails
155

12 Chaos Warriors of Tzeetnch
full command, halberd, shield
254

5 Marauder Horsemen
full command, light armour, flails
110

10 Chosen of Tzeentch
full command, great weapons, shields, Blasted Stanard
320

6 Chaos Knights
full command, lances, Banner of Rage
355

Chaos Chariot
120

Chaos Chariot
120

Chaos Warshrine of Tzeentch
150

Total: 2998

It was a close match (would have been a tie except he decided to charge a dismounted Kroq Gar at my knights' flank... stupid Kroq Gar). I found that my infantry are performing below expectations as my battle standard can't keep himself alive long enough to benefit the rest of the army. In contrast, my spellcasters carried my force by blasting large holes in the enemy with at least one infernal gateway per turn (including 2 sets of 11 hits at S7, but no S11 or S12).

Suggestions for modifying the basic tactics would be appreciated. It should be noted that the MSU tactics tend not to work well in my group as the field sees a frightening amount of missle and magical fire from time to time that makes effective small units a thing of the imagination. My warriors get lucky in that they are hard to kill, though they still get shot alot.

AMWOOD co
22-04-2009, 01:21
Okay, nearly forty views and not one reply. Is it the points value? I noticed most lists are either 2000 or 2250 here. Does that mean that no one around here considers using larger armies regularly? I know that I have enough models for a chaos force of... I don't know, actually. At least 5000 points, probably 6000. My greenskins can achieve probably close to 8000-10 000 if I try, and my fledgeling High Elf army gets to 3000 easy enough, so I can likely get 4000 out of it.

I haven't played a game less than 2000 in over five years. I prefer games that are 2 vs 2 at 3000 per army. The size makes for the confrontations to feel more like a battle between armies rather than a simple skirmish.

Anyway, I'm looking for anyone to give comments on the list. I'm beginning to wonder what it is about those my playing style that invokes the silent treatment from the forums so easily.

Elblanco
22-04-2009, 04:25
Well, I have the same problem. i play Lizardmen, and my girlfriend plays a dwarf gunline...anyway, i played her with her newly formed gunline(she didn't have much before, but now has 20 thunderers togeterh, a cannon and an organ gun, it's only for 1250 and she has ground troops too)

ANYWAY, my point is it's going to take time, but you're just going to have to figure out some ways to keep the magic and missle fire in check.(my first idea was t run cav into the thunderers facem not too well though). So fast units might work. that and if you can I would suggest taking the lore of heavens on one of your sorcerers because of celestial shield, which gives a 4 or 5+ ward save on any missle fire, magic or normal. but I don't know too much about WoC, that's just my general suggestion. Sorry I couldn;t be more help.

AMWOOD co
25-04-2009, 06:27
A little history of my group.

We started with only 4 players: Myself, Greenskin infantry and Chaos; buddy 1 (all names stripped to maintain anonymity), Greenskins and Lizardmen; buddy 2, Empire; and buddy 3, Dark Elves. The only core our Dark Elf player had were 2 units of Dark riders and 30 crossbows. This meant he always brought firepower. The Empire player and I had played skirmish a great deal before full games and gunlines in that (especially using the optional mordheim criticals) were devastating.

Adding onto that, we didn't like leaving anyone out of a game and found playing 2 games at once too difficult (I was the only one who knew the rules well enough at the start to keep things fluid), so we adopted our 2 vs 2 style of games which are now posted on the rules forum on this site. This meant that not only was there always shooting present, but that the armies present were twice as large as any one list would suggest. This was also played in a space of 8' by 4', usually with little or no terrain (we just don't like it overall).

Armies were added: The DE player picked up WE, focusing on forest spirits with little to no archers; buddy 1 picked up Brets; I picked up HE (liked them since edition 4 and now I have my own). We added 2 new players: buddy 4, who plays Ogres and Tomb Kings (but mostly Ogres); and my little brother (he's 12 years younger than me), who plays dwarfs. The Brets buddy 1 had are now gone and our elf player has quit as well.

At one point, before all the changes in the last paragraph, we decided to see if we could have a larger game of 2500 pts per army. It belly flopped. Too many units, too much moving, not enough space... we didn't like it... unanimously. Eventually we tried 3000 pts. The extra choices amounted to armies only being slightly larger model wise, but the selection available to an army was massive. If you have 3000 pts at your disposal, you could afford to buy the 900 point death machine (*coughs*Archaon*coughs*), a unit to put him in, and still have enough left over to actually get something useful. Thus we began to deviate from the norm and found strategies that aren't part of common thinking on these forums.

When I heard people talking about how useless a Daemon Prince was, I laughed. I used the Daemon Prince in the Get You By list twice, and each time to great success. I may not be able to have my 4+ ward and Death magic simultaneously now, but I realized right away that simply dismissing him as most people do is utter nonsense. Because my group was so willing to experiment with the armies, we found certain units and entries that, while they seem poor on paper, are much better when put into practice (and a few that are the other way round, as well). By the by, Giants rock! Just don't expect them to win fights. Mine dies almost every game, but he still makes up for it, even if he doesn't kill a thing. Puzzle that one around.

Kalec
25-04-2009, 17:25
It isn't that daemons princes are useless, just that a wizard lord is usually better. He is much less of a liability in 3K because he eats up a much smaller % of your army then in 2K or 2250.

Marauders on foot should never use flails. They should always, ALWAYS have great weapons instead. Or, shields and light armor. I don't bother with offensive marauders without MoK, and like MoS for my shield+LA marauders.

Drop the champ and standard from the horsemen. Drop the champ from the warriors and the knights. Give the chosen champ favour of the gods or drop the unit. Drop lances from the knights.

You seem to lack a coherent overall strategy. You have bits and pieces, like a unit of chosen wand a warshrine, a BSB with the super-banner to keep our troops from running, a couple of lord-level mages, but it doesn't really mesh. Pick a game plan and build your army to that.

AMWOOD co
27-04-2009, 21:22
I do know it seems a little hodgepodged.

Specific suggestions:

Marauder equiptment: I've been wondering about that one. I think I'll try it, or at least just the shields instead of the flails.

Less command: Why drop champions? They serve two purposes:
1: the extra attack for equal frontage
2: challenge fodder for my heroes
Also, with a Warshrine, I get the Eye of the God with all of them aswell. I hope to see many a Large Target fall before my units.

Daemon Prince: The Prince is used instead of a Sorceror Lord as his intent is to go into battle. A sorceror on a disk may be able to have a 1+ armour save, but he lacks the toughness and ward save making it a toss up. For the overall fighting power, I choose the Daemon as my mobile sorceror. I'm planning to see if Galrauch can achieve my goal better. Part of the Nicety of the Lore of Tzeentch is there is only 1 magic missle.

Chosen: Have dropped them before, planning on giving them Favour of the Gods for next time. Both seems to work.

Finally, care to elaborate on the specific 'game plans' that tend to be used for Chaos Warriors? Games do tend to be rather different at 3k compared to 2k, but it's still worth noting the overall general strategies.

Althwen
28-04-2009, 12:04
Hey,

Me and my group usually play 2.500 pts each, just for the record.

I have experienced that WoC characters atre quite difficult to master in that they seem to be super powerful, but tend to make the owning player overconfident of their abilities.
At least, thats what happens to me all the time.

Anyhow, I think I've found a nice balance for my characters. First of all, I refuse to use Daemon princes anymore for exactly those reasons mentioned in all threads about them: They cost too much and are too squishy.
Secondly, I don't use level 3/4 wizards. The leadership 8 instead of a warrior's 9 is just too much of a gimp for their cost.
and yet, there is another way to dominate the magic phase.

My favorite combo is this:

General - Lord (do with him what you like, but here are two suggestions)
1) Runesword + Crown of Everlasting conquest + Mark of Slaanesh
(I hate autobreak by Hydra just cause it looks scary) + Daemonic mount/barded steed
2) Runesword + Collar of Khorne + mark of tzeentch + Disc/other mount.

lvl 2 sorcerer - disc + Rod of torment + tzeentch
lvl 2 sorcerer - disc + puppet + enchanted shield (sometimes also word of agony to knock out enemy heroes that tend to walk around unguarded) + tzeentch
lvl 2 srocerer - Nurgle + power familiar + dispel scroll + barded steed (placed in warrior unit which has banner of wrath)

This gives you ample PD (9) plus 2 bound items!
the flying mages are far from helpess too. I've seen bolt throwers try their best at them without much effect, though I wouldnt tempt fate too much.
The mage with Word of Agony is ideal for taking out lone sorcerers and other characters that dotn come action-packed with ward saves.

I never put champions in my Knight units, of which I always take one and quite regularly two. Champions cost too much and they only provide a boost for a unit that is already dead 'ard as it is. And always make them Nurgle unless you fight an army that has no missile weapons ofcourse.

I never use Marauders on foot either. One of WoC's weaknesses is the lack of flying units... I'd give an arm just to have those furies back in the list. So two of my core choices are filled by 5 marauders with spears (fast cavalry and flyer killers) and only a musician. The third core choice is a 12 man warriors unit with full command and the banner of wrath.

Special choices include knights, trolls, chariots and sometimes dragon ogres. Chosen? I theoretically like them, but have yet to meet a threat that cant be killed by normal warriors and where Chosen wuold have made a difference.

Rare: usually a Giant, as it is quite cheap and can be counted on to stand its ground with its ld 10 stubborn combo. I dont need it to kill, only to look scary and tie up a unit for as long as it takes for an assist unit (often a chariot) to rampage through its flanks.

thats my view on things, but I'm still experimenting with various options. The setup of 1 combat lord and 3 sorcerers seems pretty set though, as it scares the living daylights even out of a VC army where all characters are spellcasters.