View Full Version : 1500 LM vs O&G

21-04-2009, 03:31
1500 Pts - Lizardmen Roster

Saurus Scar-Veteran (1#, 160 Pts)
General; Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Scaly Skin
1 Cold One
Causes Fear; Stupid
1 Sword of Battle
1 The Maiming Shield

Cold One Cavalry (5#, 195 Pts)
5 Cold One Cavalry
Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Spear; Shield; Causes Fear; Scaly Skin
5 Cold One
Causes Fear; Stupid

Saurus Warriors (18#, 246 Pts)
17 Saurus Warriors
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Spear; Shield; Scaly Skin
1 Saurus Champion
Hand Weapon; Spear; Shield

Skink Skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers @ 70 Pts
Hand Weapon; Blowpipe; Aquatic; Skirmishers

Skink Priest (6#, 405 Pts)
1 Skink Priest
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Aquatic
1 Ancient Stegadon
Engine of the Gods; Causes Terror; Immune to Psychology; Large Target; Scaly Skin; Stubborn
4 Skink Crew
Hand Weapon; Javelin; Aquatic; Skirmishers
1 Plaque of Tepok

Salamander (5#, 80 Pts)
1 Salamander Hunting Pack
Aquatic; Causes Fear; Scaly Skin; Skirmishers
4 Skink Handlers
Hand Weapon; Aquatic; Skirmishers

Terradon Riders (3#, 90 Pts)
3 Terradon Rider
Hand Weapon; Javelin; Flyer
3 Terradon

Skinks (18#, 190 Pts)
16 Skinks
Kroxigor; Hand Weapon; Javelin & Shield; Aquatic
2 Kroxigor
Great Weapon; Aquatic; Causes Fear; Scaly Skin

Skink Priest (1#, 65 Pts)(ran with the skirmishers)
1 Skink Priest
Hand Weapon; Aquatic

Total Roster Cost: 1501

he didnt save his army list but it was roughly

Goblin boss on a cave squig
lvl 2 goblin shaman
5 units of 20 goblins, two of them had 3 fanatics
1 unit of 10 black orcs
1 unit of boyz with extra choppa
1 unit of 8 spider riders
10 hoppers
doom diver
boar chariot

Deployment was
krox/skink saurus
Sally, skink skirmishers EOTG terradon Calv/general


boyz gob gob gob gob gob chariot
Boss Borc Diver spider hoppers

LM first turn

The salamander moved up, while the skirmishers marched straight out while screening both the krox/skink unit, and the saurus unit. the saurus and krox followed a bit slower behind them and the EOTG kept pace with them. the cold ones drooled all over them selves as they moved 3.5 inches straight forward. the terradons moved to the middle of the field behind a patch of trees. Magic saw me fail horribly at casting the comet, and nothing else was done.

Orc turn 1

3 units of goblins(1 with fanatics) decide to fight each other instead of the lizards so that kinda bottled him up from the start. his warboss on great cave squig also failed the animosity test. the hoppers came out 11 inches, with the chariot coming on the extreme flank a bit ahead of them. the other unit of goblins with fanatics marched straight towards my skirmishers and released 3 fanatics with 2 of them connecting and killing only 4 skinks. the skinks pass their panic test and hold firm. everything else he had moved up as much as it could. magic saw him cast nothing, and the doom diver aimed on the saurus unit went off course and killed 4 skinks and wounded a kroxigor twice instead.

LM turn 2

the terradons fly over the spider riders heads and move on the flank of a goblin unit at the back of the enemy lines to line up and charge the doom diver later on. they drop rocks on the spiders and kill 2, which pass their panic test. my saurus/krox unit wait patiently and the stegadon moves up as close as possible to the closest fanatic and burns all three of them down to ashes! the cavalry stay put, as the only other option was to move forward and then take a flank charge from a chariot the next turn. the skink skirmishers kill a few goblins that released fanatics, and the salamander pukes a few goblins in another unit to death, and they also pass their panic test. magic saw me finally cast the comet(this spell hates me), but he dispels it with a scroll.

Orc turn 2

again his warboss on squig fails his test, as well as another goblin unit that failed on turn 1 too. the goblins that got hit by the sally charge the skirmishing skinks, which flee to safety behind the krox/skink unit. this left the goblins in prime shape for a flanking EOTG charge next turn. the black orcs land right behind these goblins, and the orc boyz are covering thier other flank. the hoppers move up and land about 6 inches from my calvary. everything else moved forward as much as it could. magic saw him cast nothing, and his doom diver just misses my saurus by one inch.

LM turn 3

charges! the EOTG flank charges the goblins with the shaman, who flee their terror test. i completely forgot about this possibility, so instead of me overrunning those goblins, and flank charging the boyz, it parked me right in front of 10 black orcs. burning alignment quickly turned that down to black orcs though. the terradons charge and kill 2 goblins on the doom diver, and receive 1 wound in return. that lone goblin flees along the table edge, and my terradons pass their test to stay put. my cavalry charge and crush all 10 hoppers and pursue at an angle a bit away from the chariot. the salamander shoots and kills a few more goblins, and my fleeing skirmisher unit rallies behind the lines ready for a second go! the magic phase saw me miscast Comet, but no wounds to my priest as a result.

Orc turn 3

once again, the warboss on squig fails his animosity test! his black orcs charge my EOTG and cause 3 wounds. my priest does nothing to defend his mount, while the skinks cause 4 wounds! the stegadon just watched in amazement and did nothing in return. we draw combat(he has a standard) and we both stay put. his orc boyz wheel and move towards the krox unit, avoiding the stegadon combat. his boar chariot marches about 5 inches from my cavalry who are still facing away from it completely. and a unit of goblins goes nuts on an animosity test and cant see anything and move straight forward, past the cavalry who are behind trees from their POV. his fleeing shaman unit doesn't rally and is now off the table edge.

Lm turn 4

this is where things got interesting, and i did something he didnt see coming at all. i had my terradons charge a unit of goblins in the back of his battle line that i figured had fanatics in it and did. this put my terradons between two units of goblins, and next to his spider riders. 2 of the 3 fanatics come out and kill only 1 terradon and the other falls just short of them. i hold up my charge, thus leaving 3 fanatics in the middle of 3 of his units and no where near anything of mine but the terradons. my cold ones turn to face the inevitable chariot charge. my krox/skink unit charges his boyz unit and the krox with portent of far on them crush the orcs, causing 4 wounds, and the skinks adding 2 more. the result was the remaining few orcs fleeing out of my pursuit range by an inch. the stegadon combat saw the orcs do no wounds, and the stegadon kill 1 black orc. they again pass thier break test and stay put, but now theres only 2 remaining. shooting sees the salamander choke on his own spit and miss a unit of goblins that were a bit far away. magic again sees me fail at that damn comet spell!

orc turn 4

2 of his fanatics hit each other after killing my terradons, and kill themselves, while the 3rd went as planned and took out 3 spider riders before wrapping his own carcass around a tree. they pass their test, and charge my stegadon. the spider unit and black orcs do no wounds, and my skinks kill 2 spider riders, and the steg eats 1 black orc leaving only 1 left. i win combat and the black orc stays, while the spiders flee. his boyz unit fails to rally and moves closer to the edge. his chariot charges my cavalry killing 2, while my general in return causes 2 wounds, and his pet does another one to the chariot. the chariot flees and escapes my pursuit range. this puts me behind the gobbos that charged straight ahead last turn. his warboss finally passed the animosity test and lands behind the black orcs. no magic as his shaman is off the table.

Lm turn 5

burning alignment sees the last black orc die in a blaze. it also kills the warboss and leaves the cave squig to one wound left. the skink/krox unit turn and face it, and the ensuing hail of javelins finish it off. my saurus finally can move up beyond the stegadon "protecting" it from the other unit of fresh goblins that released the fanatics on themselves. cold ones turn charge the back of the chariot, but it escapes and moves out of range. magic again, sees me fail horribly at casting comet.

orc turn 5

his spiders continue fleeing off the table, but not before passing through one of the 3 remaining fresh goblin units and panicking them off the table(they were near the edge still). the 3 orc boyz manage to rally. the chariot flees very close to his table edge. his goblin unit that is on my table edge turns toward my cavalry and takes shots with their short bows, but cause no wounds. the only thing he has besides them was the unit of goblins that my saurus moved up in a position to take a charge, which he chose to do. the result saw them take a rank out and pursue them down as they fled. at this point he only has 3 orcs that are rallied, and 20 goblins left on my table edge, and he decides to call the game.

the end result was a massacre in the favor of the LM. he had 3 orc boyx left, and 20 goblins. i had 8 skinks dead, a krox with 1 wound left, the steg had 2 wounds left, and 2 cold ones were dead as well.

it was about then he realized lone characters don't suffer animosity. a few rules questions also came up, which ive posted on the rules forum.

my biggest concern was the fanatics, but lucky animosity on one unit helped hold them back 2 turns, and the other unit worked out perfect, i knew the skirmishers would take a few hits,and the next turn my EOTG was there to clean them out. the salamander really under performed here, but only cause of bad rolling to wound on my part, and good panic tests on his part.

this is my second report, all from memory, so i apologize if its not very clear, and thanks for reading/comments!

21-04-2009, 15:12
Well I held off replying because of the debate on your first report, but since no one else is willing to take this on I'll do it.

That orc player really needs some help... His list is horrible and he doesn't even know his own rules.

I assume this player is part of your group, so could you pass this on to him:

Goblin boss on a cave squig- Orcs NEED their general to provide a leadership and this is even more so in a heavy goblin list. So a night goblin BB, with a Ld of 6, just doesn't cut it. (Not to mention having your general bouncing around randomly is equally bad.)

lvl 2 goblin shaman- obviously not worth 90 points. Drop for a caddie or a BSB.

5 units of 20 goblins, two of them had 3 fanatics- Units of 20 won't get anything done. Combine these to make 3 large units and make sure to add nets. (Don't know what command there was but only banner and musician would be worth it.)

1 unit of 10 black orcs- As a flanking force this is actually ok, but you didn't use them like this. Put them on the flank or drop them. For the same points you could get almost 4 spear chukkas.

1 unit of boyz with extra choppa (size? command? When they are used in combination with a unit of night goblins with nets they can do well.)

1 unit of 8 spider riders (No reason to be over starting strength. Spiders are a throw away unit and nothing more.)

10 hoppers- 7 should be as big as these should be.

doom diver- good

boar chariot-good

As for your list you can't post individual point costs.

As for the report, it was well written and clear, but the outcome was obvious given the lists.

21-04-2009, 15:50
the only reason there was a debate was because i felt insulted by the unwarranted and repeated power gamer comment.

it was only his second game with o&g, he definitely has a lot to figure out still. the boyz unit was only 10 strong, but he only has 10 at the moment so that kinda limits it.

i think hes more or less giving up on the squig hoppers. i think hes going to get some squig herders, to have a little more control over them. so far in both games his hoppers jumped WAY out ahead of everything else and got munched.

after all the panicking this time around, he is definitely going to go for higher leader ship generals and/or black orcs for the animosity.

hes actually my roommate, so ill have him read this later at some point.

21-04-2009, 16:07
I played with squig hoppers for a while as my wood elves had always feared them, but they are just too unreliable. When it works out you can really land a hard punch, but if they get charged it's all over...

Something for him to think about with those extra choppa flanking force: an orc with an extra choppa is 7 points and has a 6+ armor save. A savage orc is 8 points, has the same number of attacks, is ItP, and has a 6+ ward (can't be ignored). For two more points you could even give that savage orc an extra choppa and now that 100 point flanking unit has 18 str 4 attacks on the charge (assuming 6 wide).

All you have to do is add war paint (yellow lines) to the existing models.

21-04-2009, 16:22
It was a well written report. Pics are always appreciated. Ill second most of Mal comments, (YOUR rOOMAMTES NEEDS AN ORC GENERAL AND A bATTLE STANDARD bEARER!!!)with the exception of the spider riders, I like them quite abit, free reforms, 360 degree los, +1 s on charge, move over any terrain without penalties, and the mounts poison attacks can chew through high toughness targets, they have alot going for them.

Dont know if the B. Orc unit had a champ, but he should have challenged your skink priest on the eotg when those two units met up, he would of chewed him up. He didnt call a waaaaggghhh! he should have, always call a waaaaagggghhhhh!!! Its just the orky thing to do.

Nice tactic with the terrys to pull out the fanatics.

If your bud lacks models, maybe play him with a more watered down list next time? He didnt stand a chance.

21-04-2009, 16:49
he has a ton of different things, he just lacks orc models mostly. he has a giant, a couple spear chukkas, and alot of other stuff, just mostly all goblin related things.

he did forget about the waaaaagh rule, and his b. orc unit had a champion, i think he sometimes forgets challenges though.

i think his biggest issue is he has so many small units it plugs up his deployment, specially with animosity. ill convince him to use less but bigger units, i think thatll help him alot.

22-04-2009, 15:07
talked to my roommate last night about most of this stuff. hes all about trying bigger units, i suggested 30, is that ideal? would 20 still be ok as "throw away" units?

also i think he mainly wants to stay a mostly goblin theme, anything else he should look at getting?

22-04-2009, 16:31
Depends on what we are talking about.

Fully ranked orcs are great at ~25 where as goblins would be better at 30ish.

If he is on warseer it might be better if he PMs one of us directly (so you don't hear all the cunning plans ;) ).

22-04-2009, 17:09
I dont remember who 1st suggested this to me, but a great way to free up deployment space for orcs is if you use fast calvery (ie spider riders) deploy them single file, like a train, to start the game. They can just reform later once you see where you need space and figure out where the spiders riders are best moved to.

Its under the fast Cav rules in the rulebook.

22-04-2009, 18:35
ah, thats a good idea, ill let him know that. makes me wish i had bolt throwers:)

22-04-2009, 18:37
ah, thats a good idea, ill let him know that. makes me wish i had bolt throwers:)

You do... they're just attached to stegadons :D

22-04-2009, 22:52
lol, i have yet to use a regular stegadon with the bolt thrower. i would think with the skink BS of 3, and always moving/long range it would be hard to hit with and not really worth it?

22-04-2009, 23:06
Goblins are BS 3 too ;)

No one takes the stegadon just for the bolt thrower, it's just a nice addition that comes in handy now and then. And if you run a more defensive list (where the steg is there for counter charges) then he might as well be shooting off a bolt thrower while he waits.

I guess the main thing is that when you have an army with almost zero long range shooting you take whatever you can get :D

22-04-2009, 23:20
if you have a skink chief on a steg, do you personally use his BS to shoot a bolt thrower/single blow pipe? ive read people arguing both ways here, and theres no offical FAQ ive seen. to this point ive always used the regular skinks BS.

also posted a "softer" list on the list forum, check it out pls.

22-04-2009, 23:42
I don't, but I'm hoping the FAQ (when it comes) says I can ;)

22-04-2009, 23:46
i kinda went by that too, until something says i specifically can, im not going too

Necromancy Black
23-04-2009, 00:19
God, did you not have anything else but the comet to cast?

Even at lv3 I wouldn't try to cast that spell that often at all. I take it you didn't roll 4 or 5 but still, the other spells are much easier to cast and also very useful.

23-04-2009, 01:25
i didnt roll the best of spells, i had the reroll d3 dice, and the s4 no armor save spell, which against O&G id rather have the cheaper to cast one. the way he was crammed for space, a well place comet could have decimated him. and the times when i casted it, i didnt have a case where i thought the d3 dice thing would really be helpful(plus i always seem to forget to use the damn rerolls).

Necromancy Black
23-04-2009, 09:16
hahaha, I actually have a cup I use for those re-roll dice. If I screw up some important rolls I quickly check my cup for any dice :p

Personally I would have taken the 9+ thunderbolt over the comet. Comet is just not reliable at all and your obviously not getting both that and the thunderbolt off in a turn.

Would have changed Comet to Potant of the Far personally :p People really underestimate what that little spell can do.

23-04-2009, 09:30
I agree, portent is a brilliant spell, especially if it is cast it on a unit which is str6.

It basically ensures all hits wound (unless you roll terribly again) makes your white lions etc a killing machine.same with single bolt(im an elf) against monsters, it is practically auto hit and is often let through in case people cast nastier spells.but the d3 re roll spell is good too.Might not be destructive but if used properly it can win you the game....
I nearly always take a mage on high magic ( hopefully for curse ) and a mage with portent.it can cause some devastation ......:evilgrin:

23-04-2009, 11:36
yeah my other skink priest had portent of far. thats probably the spell i use the most over all. kroxigors and the blowpipes love it:)

Necromancy Black
23-04-2009, 12:30
Portent is what installs the fear of kroxigors into people :p

Also, I only just realised how could an EotG charge can be if the priest on top the portents his own unit. Even better if he's range of a warspear that just charged :D

23-04-2009, 13:03
lol, ive never tried that yet. though with my limited experience, ive yet to have a steg of any kind charge a unit and not break it on the charge without portent anyways. i usually toss it on skirmishers so i can reroll 1's and hopefully get more 6's to hit with blow pipes. dropped a giant twice that way in one turn.