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Trunks
19-12-2005, 04:27
This is my wishlist for when the Eldar Codex gets redone.

1. Eldar will stop calling humans "mon-keigh".

That is all.

It is so damn corny and stupid. I'd rather the dying race of eldar keep sending out basic citizens to die in droves (guardians) than use such terrible B-Movie dialogue. That is what irritated me the most about the changes to eldar from 2nd to 3rd.

Venkh
19-12-2005, 09:08
I agree, they should just say come out and say "monkey"

Some people (not you Trunks) dont make the connection between the two words.

Cadian 21st
19-12-2005, 10:09
Like me! Jk.

2. Definition of the Avatar's "The Wailing Doom". I can't find it. Anywhere. Is it in, like, CSM codex?

GodofWarTx
19-12-2005, 10:28
Like me! Jk.

2. Definition of the Avatar's "The Wailing Doom". I can't find it. Anywhere. Is it in, like, CSM codex?


Check your 2nd Edition Eldar Codex for this little bit of information.

It was just listed in 3rd edition to make the avatar at least sound impressive.

immortal99
19-12-2005, 10:29
I don't think there are rules for it unless they are in a FAQ or the craftworlds codex or eye of terror.

damz451
19-12-2005, 20:24
iv heard that dark eldar are supposidly meant to share the same codex as craftworld ones (one big eldar codex) and what i really really want to see is warriors with a pistol and cc weapons!, or at least assualt weapons since giving rapid fire guns to init 5 cc themed units is pretty stupid

Cadian 21st
19-12-2005, 20:45
Check your 2nd Edition Eldar Codex for this little bit of information.

It was just listed in 3rd edition to make the avatar at least sound impressive.

- I don't have a 2nd Ed Eldar Codex :cries: . As tot he impressive bit, maybe, but unlikely. This is like the "Matched Hellpistols" for Ursakar Creed - are they Twin-Linked, or Two Pistols?

Sildani
19-12-2005, 21:05
Well, in Second Ed., it was called the Suin Daellae. It could discharge an energy blast at short range which was quite devastating.

The Judge
19-12-2005, 21:13
I personally like them calling the human mon-keigh. Pronounce it differently to "monkey" and it's fine.

Give the Avatar a thrown weapon like the 2nd edition and I'll be a happier man.

Kahadras
19-12-2005, 21:29
Personaly I found it a bit of a silly idea. Kinda belittles the idea of the Eldar and makes for a very poor pun IMO. The Mon-Keigh were an old race the Eldar fought once and aparantly they call all inferior races this so why do we never hear Orks, Tau, Tyranids, Necrons or any other alien race called this? Why only humans? If GW is going to write this stuff then the best that they can do is back it up all the way to the hilt rather than just turning it into a bit of a poor joke.

Kahadras

Trunks
20-12-2005, 02:28
I personally like them calling the human mon-keigh. Pronounce it differently to "monkey" and it's fine.

No, it is not fine, no matter how you pronounce it. It is a terrible terrible thing.

sulla
20-12-2005, 05:21
Ooh, a wishlist! Goody!

1)The option of lasblasters for defenders.

2)The option of shuriken catapults for storm squads.

Orbital
20-12-2005, 05:34
My own wishlist.
1. Shining Spears become interesting and useable.
2. Some sort of combatant HQ instead of the Avatar.
3. Striking Scorpion models that are able to stand up.

Drasanil
20-12-2005, 17:15
1)Psychic powers that make those infernal librarians look like the bumbling gits they are.

2)A non-avatar combat HQ.

3)Plastic Wraithguard.

Follow
20-12-2005, 18:04
2)The option of shuriken catapults for storm squads.

This already exists, check the entry for "defender squad." ;)




Follow :)

Farseer Silvanus
23-12-2005, 17:08
Well in my Wishlist these are the things I want.
1. Better range for the shuriken cats(come on we are an advance race that has a pistol and a rifle with the same range..Duh???)
2. Better stats for the Avatar(In 2nd he was a 300pt beast of war now his a little whimp who gets taken out by bolter fire)
3. Make the witchblade and singing spears power weapons again.(Our farseers are the luaghing stock of pykers and HQ choices already with just two attacks)
4. Better looking models for the Striking Scorpions.
5.Warlocks getting Ld of 9. Right now we only have warlocks and Farseers..Somehow they jump from leading guardians around to telling ancient stories of how we ruled the universe..lol
That's all I can think of right now.

Grimaldus
23-12-2005, 18:04
My biggest wish is the addition of the Altansar craftworld, bringing something a little different to the table.

Then I'd like to see the range of Shuriken catapults increased...even if its only by another 6" I'll be quite pleased.

I'd like to see Guardians become less prominent in some ways. Of course, there are exceptions(ie. Ulthwe and its' Black Guardians, being of course a standing armed force rather than the usual citizen milita) but for the most part, in my mind the aspect warriors should be the main fighting force of the army, being on the Path of the Warrior and all. I'd like to see Guardians in more of a support role, rather than the core....now, maybe this is how it's supposed to be in the current codex and it just doesn't usually turn out that way.

To repeat what's been said a lot already, I'd like to see the Avatar become a much stronger, deadlier, tougher, and all round more fearsome monster...with a much higher points cost attached to him as well. With the Autarch pretty much confirmed, I think we can expect the Avatar to be given a boost up, as there's really no need for two middle weight fighty HQs...so I'm betting the Autarch will allow the Avatar to become a real terror again.

Once again, I'd love to see the Eldar psychic arsenal become 40k's definitive "if you want a strong psychic element, then your first and most obvious choice is Eldar". I want them to be the powerful psykers I think they should be. Now, that said, I hope their powers turn out to be very powerful, but at the same time be a bit subtle. Any rogue human with a drop of psychic power in it can shoot blasts of energy around trying to look all impressive and blow things up. An Eldar psyker should be able to hold up his or her hand and, with a slight nod of the head, burn the weak, unfocused mind clean out of said human's head...(okay, so this unintentionally sounds a bit like the Mind War we currently have access to, but you see what I'm getting at.)
I'm not saying that every Eldar psyker should be able to casually slap around an obviously powerful SM Librarian or Chaos Sorcerer Lord for example, and in fact, those two creatures should stand a fairly good chance of slapping around even a mighty Farseer. In terms of Psychic mastery though, I'd like to see the new codex allow the Farseer to out-psych most anything...in a characterful way.

I'm not going to really say anything about the Eldar technology now because, well, at this point, I think it's fair to say that they aren't entirely the most "advanced" race anymore. In some ways they still hold the title, but in others I'd say that the title is at the very least contended. This is fine by me as Eldar technology is different than most other species', being very psychic in nature.

In the end, though, with the way the new army books and lists are going, I'm not too worried. I've been VERY impressed with the Eldar codex and think that Phil Kelly did an excellent job of bringing them up to snuff and even beyond. I'm fairly certain the new Eldar codex is his baby, so I feel as though it's in good hands. And as for some new models...yes please! Those go without saying though. I'm sure that the Eldar will be getting more plastics and new, (hopefully) better looking metals for some of the aspects.

I guess I lied at the beginning of this post when I said my biggest wish was for the introduction and implementation of Altansar...that'd just be nice;) In truth, my biggest wish is that the new Eldar codex allows them to be a varied, characterful, fulfilling and fun army to collect and play, with all unit selections having merit and bringing about the death of the cookie cutter armies we see a lot of nowadays.

Orbital
23-12-2005, 18:07
I don't want to see Guardians become less prominent, as they *are* the basic troop choice of the Eldar. What I'd like is to see them become more suitable for that role so that people *want* to take Guardians. How that is done, I dunno... but I think that the fact people would like to see Guardians vanish is a good indication of how little they're impressing everyone.

Grimaldus
23-12-2005, 18:26
Agreed, that's the trick...I mean, I certainly wouldn't want to see them vanish by any means, merely to become, as you said, less prominent. As it is currently, the only means of using them as any kind of real(read: effective:)) support unit is as a weapons platform carrier, which in turn makes them either sacrificial or renders their Shuriken catapults nearly useless...or both. I see this as highly out of character for the Eldar, as using their citizens, on which the survival of their very species depends, in such a way just isn't right for their army. Guardsmen, sure, there's billions of them. Eldar. definately not.

I can't help but think that increasing the range of the Shuriken catapult will help to solve the situation. The reality is that the armies of the Craftworlds use Guardians because they must, and this isn't something that should go away. However, they need to be suited to something more useful than simple cannon fodder or weapon platform caddies. An increased Shuriken range would, in my very humble and possibly misguided opinion, go a long, long way in making the Guardian squads not only more useful and effective, but also more survivable.

Now, on the other hand, I do think that the Storm Guardians are actually pretty good as they are for certain roles. It's the Defenders(mainly Shuriken catapults) that need the tweeking.

Orbital
24-12-2005, 00:55
I've had a lot of fun and success with Storm Guardians. I find that they really demand tactical thinking from me, however, as I can't just toss them at any target I like and get the results I want.

I played a really fun game last night against Sisters of Battle. I took only two 12-man Defender Guardian squads with Warlocks (sans platforms), a 20-man Storm Guardian squad with Warlock, a 10-man squad of Dire Avengers, two Farseers and a Wraithlord. The only power weapon in the army was the Dire Avenger Exarch's sword, and the only power armor killer was the Starcannon on the Wraithlord's shoulder (and he came in on turn 3, as we were playing escalation).

All those troops turned out to be so much fun. It took a huge amount of concentration to make sure that I didn't end up being mowed down like mulch by flamers and power weapons. I won a "solid victory", but worked for it.

After the game it occurred to me that Guardians aren't nearly as bad as everyone makes them out to be (me, included). I found that it had more to do with really changing the way I think, the way I approach problem solving, the way I move through cover, etc. It was an awesome experiment, and I'll probably do it again!

Brother Octavian
24-12-2005, 06:10
Here are some of my ideas for a new Eldar Codex:

1. Improvements for Guardians.(defenders and storm squads) I wouldn't mind seeing Guardian armor being increased to 4+, because It always bugged me that a dying race would equip its most vulnerable soldiers with what is essentially flak armor. Plus the current guardian models appear much more heavily protected than what their characteristics suggest, and IMO look far too cool to die so easily! :)

2. Better Avatar. Personally, I think the Avatar's stats are fine the way they are. The only tweaking I see necessary is his armor save, which, due to the fact that he is made of metal, should be quite a bit better. The 3+ normal save and 4+ invulnerable save(a la the Bloodthirster) seems appropriate, albeit with a substantial points increase.

3. Dire Avengers. Seeing as how these guys are supposed to be the most tactically flexible aspect warriors according to the fluff, I think several changes are needed to make them more versatile on the tabletop. Giving them a special ability to fire their shuricats once at 24" if they stay stationary would be kind of cool, and maybe an ability similar to the laserlance special rule to fire once just prior to assault, or something like that.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Aryakas
24-12-2005, 07:31
I'd like to see Eldritch Storm gain a little more feasibility. I'ts decent on paper but for its cost the results I've gotten are very dissapointing. Maybe give it an AP value at least?

sulla
24-12-2005, 08:37
This already exists, check the entry for "defender squad." ;)
Follow :)
...Silly fellow :rolleyes: ;)

Storm squads with shuriken catapults and the option of flamers/fusion guns would be far more useful than the option to add a heavy weapon platform to close support weaponry...

Lasblasters for defenders, the option of shuricat or shuriken pistol + ccw for storm squads. It makes too much sense not to. The current stats for the shuricat make it a very good gun... just not for a unit that hangs at the other end of the field pinging off starcannon shots. Better to give those guys the old standard eldar laser gun (or it's new incarnation, the lasblaster). Put the shuricats in a unit that will benefit better from them... one that supports them with assault weapons... the storm squad.

Smoking Frog
24-12-2005, 09:19
But the lasblaster ain't THAT amazing... I suppose it'd have its uses, but I just can't see how...

Could you enlighten me, I'm honestly at a loss...

sabot
24-12-2005, 09:29
Swoophawks a better role for them.

and/or warpspiders. yeah I have heard how some people love them. But IMO they are nowhere near what they used to be. Before they were an Ork players nightmare. Now, very niche.

Dr.Clock
24-12-2005, 21:35
guardians in 4+ armour? Noooooooo!!!

This change, in my view, is unprecedented. They have always had a 5+ save and should always have one. The whole idea with guardians is that they ARE fragile. Deadly, but fragile. The whole army is designed around this trade-off. It's part of their allure, I think.

In order to 'fix' the guardians, they have to be made more deadly, not less fragile. Assault wepons coupled with shuriken catapults is a nice idea and one that I think has definite merits. I think the key to any 'fix' will be versatility in unit selection. A 6" range boost would go a long way, I think. The catapult should not, in my opinion, be rapid fire 24". I don't really view it as a stand and shoot weapon and since when do Eldar like standing still anyway (Dark Reapers aside). Assault 2 18" would be the ideal I think to represent the fact that the weapon has a limited effective range, yet is easy to fire on the move. Moving out to 18" means, of course, that you can get at least one and often two round/s of shooting in before the enemy charge. If you play it right you can also shoot on the charge, making assault weapons such as fusion guns a no brainer.

I think these two changes (18" range, shuriken storm squads) will greatly increase the use of guardians and make them a combat-ready unit in line with the 'new' edition. Smaller, more numerous squads begin to make sense under these changes (units more tactically defined) and reflect the fact that Eldar are NOT a horde army. I think lowering the twenty limit is a good idea too, but that is probably a whole new can of worms.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

p.s. The rest of the wishlist reads thusly: EXODITES!!!!!

Trunks
25-12-2005, 04:04
guardians in 4+ armour? Noooooooo!!!

This change, in my view, is unprecedented. They have always had a 5+ save and should always have one.

However, before the AP system was introduced, Guardians had a save against a bolter.

Guardians should probably have a 5+ that requires AP4 to negate to be "realistic". Their armor is better than a guardsman's, but not as good as carapace (at least that is the impression I've always had).

speedygogo
25-12-2005, 06:05
This is my wishlist for when the Eldar Codex gets redone.

1. Eldar will stop calling humans "mon-keigh".

That is all.

It is so damn corny and stupid. I'd rather the dying race of eldar keep sending out basic citizens to die in droves (guardians) than use such terrible B-Movie dialogue. That is what irritated me the most about the changes to eldar from 2nd to 3rd.

The eldar's tactless dependance on cheesy expressions is the very reason that they are a dying race. It is a genetic disorder that is causing the other races of the 40k universe to hunt them to extiction.

Orbital
25-12-2005, 06:28
The eldar's tactless dependance on cheesy expressions is the very reason that they are a dying race. It is a genetic disorder that is causing the other races of the 40k universe to hunt them to extiction.

***sNoRt***

sulla
25-12-2005, 10:07
But the lasblaster ain't THAT amazing... I suppose it'd have its uses, but I just can't see how...

Could you enlighten me, I'm honestly at a loss...

Sure. Bear with me for a bit, please.

1)There is nothing wrong with the shuriken catapult's stats. It is an awesome weapon that many races close support troops would kill for.
2)But, it doesn't suit the requirements of the guardian defender who ideally, wants to stay out of rapid fire range and employ his mobiliy and weapons platform to the fullest.

So; Can we find a way to better employ the shuriken catapult within the Eldar list while giving the humble guardian defender a more fitting weapon to help with his job?

If we give defenders the option of lasblasters or shuriken catapults and give storm squads the option of shuriken catapults or shuriken pistol and ccw, I believe we can achieve both. That way, defenders can remain as they are OR exchange their close support shock weapon for a longer range, but less powerful weapon that can still be used at full effectiveness on the go (in other words, the lasblaster will compliment the weapons platform better). In the case of the storm squad, the player can build squads with some real support portential; under 90pts for 8 shuriken catapults and 2 flamers... even full sized marine squads fear that kind of firepower. but up against ligher armour, these guys will just shred them.

It also has the added advantage that old farts like me can dust off all our old lasgun guardians and use them again...:p

Sulla

Scorpio
25-12-2005, 15:37
All i know about the wailing doom is its the biel-tan avatars sword.
the eldar should call the humans mon-keigh i think they more mean young then monkey:p

Orbital
25-12-2005, 18:01
All i know about the wailing doom is its the biel-tan avatars sword.
the eldar should call the humans mon-keigh i think they more mean young then monkey:p

Just a note: The Wailing Doom is the sword of the Avatar, regardless of Craftworld.

Cheers!

EternitysEnd
26-12-2005, 23:34
Ok, going out on a limb here but i agree with what Dr.Clock said about making the guardians more deadly and not less fragile. What if the shuricats forced a pinning test (or maybe just a morale test in general)? Then units with high ld, like tyranids inside of synapse, space marines, other eldar, wouldn't be effected by the shuricats whereas guardsmen and orks would have trouble.

I was also thinking about extending the range to 18". Then you'd have a close-range support unit that had the potential to really shread a single unit (if it wounded and pinned every turn) but one that was still fragile in CC (graceful and fast too) and could be overwhelmed.

Squad size should definitely be limited, 20 is way too many. As has been said, they're a dying race and should almost always be outnumbered. I've been thinking Guardian squads could be limited (0-3?)to keep their usage "realistic."

I dunno if I'm being realistic but its just a rough brainstorm. There's other things need fixing too, but i'll stick with guardians for right now.

Scorpio
27-12-2005, 18:00
the usage is realistic. do you know what guardians are? they are regular citzens with guns and armor. the eldar may be dying but the only craftworld that is really dead is iyanden, after the nids hit them. As for the eldar being out numbered in every battle they pretty much are. except for sm and csm they are. but if GW makes them more outnumbered then they need to make individual troops better to compensate.:evilgrin: that would make me happy!:evilgrin: :evilgrin:

Dr.Clock
27-12-2005, 20:43
Limiting the number of guardian units is not a good idea. Limiting the SIZE of each unit is.

Melee units can stay larger, but I would prefer a tendency toward smaller more tactical fire support units. A 12" range on the catapults makes this difficult as you can't fire from outside charge range. Hence, large squad sizes to weather the storm. If you could take three eight-man squads with catapults at 18" and the option of support platforms or paired assault weapons in each, I think that would be ideal. Could just be my style and preference, but I wish it were easier to 'lurk' with guardians and not feel like the catapults were a waste.

Whoah, just had a sweet idea... How about the guardian 'platoon'? Imagine that: up to three eight-man guardian squads and a command squad as a single troop choice! Too Sweet for WORDS... Command squad has numerous options for special/heavy weapons etc.

thoughts?

The Good Doctor.

Scorpio
27-12-2005, 21:25
that would be a good idea, it would bacically be guardians with big guns and a like a farseer to help guide those shots. its like a termi squad for eldar. except with worse armor but better tech!!:evilgrin: :evilgrin:

Ozendorph
27-12-2005, 21:29
Eldar warfare is all about fluid movement and powerful strikes.

Totally agree with the Assault 2 18" shurcats. Very fitting of the eldar style.

4+ Armor save is right out.

I'd love to see a return to psychic dominance and prevalent warp-based technology. Time to teach these upstart-races a trick or two ;)