PDA

View Full Version : "The spear in my heart" [WOTR Angmar 1000 pts]



JHK
21-04-2009, 16:39
The men of Carn Dum came on us at night, and we were worsted. Ah! the spear in my heart..."

Hello all, just starting out with WOTR and am putting together two armies with my son (1 good and 1 evil), each at 1000 pts for starters. We went with Rohan and Angmar mainly for looks and mood. While there are plans to move these up to 2000 for the summer, the focus now is on manageable lists that play decently and can be built on. We want to paint these up quickly and start playing. I will list the Rohan list in another post, but for now I am seeking thoughts and feedback on our Angmar list.

I had originally dropped for two boxes of Army of the dead, and have now been reconsidering them as the core of the army. After reading Reinholts idea for making the Men of Carn Dum, the focus of the army shifted over to something different. This army is obviously set somewhere in the past of the third age, and it is meant to have a "legendary" feel to it.

Here is the list:

Leaders and Legends:
-Buhrdur- Troll Chieftain
-The Dwimmerlaik

Common Formations:
-Men of Carn Dum: 4 co. with Captain
-Men of Carn Dum: 4 co. with Captain
-Angmar Orcs with Bows: 3 co. with Taskmaster
-Ghostly Riders: 2 co. with Captain and Banner

Rare Formations:
-Werewolves: 1 co.

12 infantry, 2 cavalry, one hero and one monster

Obviously, the Dwimmerlaik deviates from what has emerged as the consensus around the Tainted, but I was interested in the possibility of thwarting might points as a tactical necessity in this hero-crowded game. I also thought that the move away from terror-causing units in the list opened up other possibilities for the command. The nice thing is that you can switch the Ringwraiths in and out of the list quite simply, and I will, in any case, be using a generic wraith figure, so its fairly flexible.

Similarly, I know that the Court of Fallen Kings is a real killer, but I was intrigued with the sheer aggression of the werewolves. The fact that they are the same points cost makes them easy enough to swap in the list.

My basic questions are on the core of the list. I have read that the Men of Carn Dum are good, and I have to say that their stats are quite solid for the cost and the berzerk seems like a good plus. The orcs are probably the weakest link in the army, but I wanted a little archery support and they were the cheapest option (and only option without going out of list).

I am avoiding allies at this point because I am intending to add in a Balrog at 2000 points- so I need to keep the ally slots completely empty. I have been re-reading the Silmarillon and have been re-acquainted with the history of the Balrogs (and their original home in the north of middle earth), and it seemed that a Balrog of the north would have been possible in the early days of Carn Dum. I will be painting it in a similar fashion to the ghost's, so it will look in theme to the rest of the army.

thanks for any thoughts!

JHK
23-04-2009, 03:22
Perhaps if I put up an image (http://fieldfaring.org/images/other/carn-dum-1.jpg) (or two (http://fieldfaring.org/images/other/carn-dum-2.jpg)) of one of the Men of Carn Dum that I finished, it would help folks give some thoughts on the army. ;)

ThrowN
23-04-2009, 06:46
Angmar orcs can't have bows, but you could take them as Mordor allies, of course. I think in low point games, you should be careful with command options and I'd skip the taskmaster!
The list looks very fragile, but that might be the problem with almost every angmar list. especially the cost riders, with their 2 command need to be carefully deployed and moved behind terrain.
Right now, your army depends a lot on getting the charges (Man of Carn Dm, Ghostriders, Werewolfs) and you lack defense against monsters, so I think you'll rather need the Court of Fallen Kings than the Werewolfs.

I like your Men of Carn Dm Conversion but I think the paint job needs to provide a bigger contrast. Perhaps a really bright skin colour could help.

Quannum
23-04-2009, 10:41
Great feel to the list JHK and lovely conversions to go with it but I don't think you can feasibly get Spirits into an Angmar list before about 1500 points. It's a shame but true.
You need to spend your first 1000 points on everything that is going to SUPPORT your eventual Spirit Legions (Infantry or Cavalry). I'd get a bit more Magic, get some decent sized archer units and get really comfortable with this "base" list so that when it comes to adding the awesome, but fragile Spirits, you'll be tactically sound with their support.

JHK
23-04-2009, 15:23
Thanks for the thoughts on the army and comments on the (simple) conversion.

It is probably true that there are too many spirits in there for 1000. Maybe it would be just as easy to drop one of the two commanders however? This would free up 125 pts. This could add a second unit of Orcs and also bring each of those orc formations up to 4 companies.

Its also possible to replace one of the Carn Dum Captains with Thrydan Wolfsbane from the Isengard list (both are 50 pts)- it would be simple to convert a Dunlending chieftain to be a Carn Dum commander.

@ ThrowN, Angmar orcs can have bows- they cost an extra 5 pts. per company. I take your point about the Barrow Wights- perhaps they are a more solid choice. I had been thinking that Buhrdur would be the defense against monsters, but perhaps I put too much faith in his epic strike.

What do you mean by being careful with command options? Should the formations have more or less? I put the banner in the Ghost riders mainly because getting a good charge roll seemed crucial to them.

cheers!

ThrowN
23-04-2009, 16:46
My mistake with the bows, I was looking at the lder file for the ArmyBuilder.

The command in WotR is quite costy in comparison to companies/units. A banner and a captain are already 4 companies of Orks with shields. While I agree on captains (magic protection/at the doubel, etc.), I'm rather unsure about every other option.
Banners look great on the table, but thats 35 pts for something that triggers maybe once a game. And with a captain you can change the missed charge into a succesful one, anyway (as long as you have a point of might left)
The Taskmaster, maybe in a maxed out unit, and then only if I already have a captain (both give C+1...). but not in such a small archer unit. If your enemy actually starts to deal with them, they are messed up. If the enemy doesn't, he is wasted. Buy some faith for example, the ones for 25 pts are IMO well priced.
Especially at such a small gamesize, you have to always ask the question: Do I really need that particular command option or do I need more troops!

And if you want to get a feel for your 200pts-Balrog-Army you shouldn't take Wolfsbane. Otherwise, take him.

Titivillus
26-04-2009, 22:50
Angmar orcs can't have bows

Actually, they can. Take a look at their entry on page 209:

"For +5 points per company, the entire formation may be given...bows..."

JHK, while I have no idea how your list will play (with or without bows for your orcs), good for you on trying to keep it true to the background! Your Men of Carn Dum look good; I look forward to seeing what you do for werewolves.

JHK
27-04-2009, 03:16
Thanks for the thoughts- I just started on the Werewolves today. I am going with a scenic base for them, using converted Wargs and a Warg chieftain. I will post a picture as soon as it come together.

One thing I found out today is how $$$ expensive these orcs are going to be. I picked up a box of Mordor orcs today and there are only 4 with bows in the box! The GW site claims there are 8. What would you think if someone in your area substituted Uruk Hai scouts with Bows to use as Angmar Orcs- I am considering it, because those are at least a better deal. Otherwise, I might as well buy metal!

Looking over the metal options, probably the most cost effective are the armored goblin bowmen- 4 to a pack at 15.00... 30$$ per company is cheaper than most metal, but still very costly.

Now would be a great time for Battlewagon Bits to start up with breaking open WOTR boxes and selling the components individually or in groups of 8.

Titivillus
27-04-2009, 12:50
Only 4? That is terrible; I had been planning on 8 while trying to figure out what to do with my Angmar army. That will change a lot of things. It could very expensive in a hurry!

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem if you used Uruks, but then I don't have a problem with quality proxies, either. If you wanted, though, you could just use the Uruks as "rank fillers". Make sure the front rank/s of your formation are filled with the appropriate models (in this case, orcs with bows) and then sprinkle your uruks, or even goblins, throughout the rest of the companies to increase the numbers. I would take Uruks over goblins, though, for size reasons (although the difference may not be that great; I have never held a mordor orc and a goblin side-by-side).

I am curious to see the final result, whatever you choose. I would definitely have a bow formation if there was a cost-effective way of doing so. As it is, though, I thought I might just buy a few boxes of Morannon Orcs and substitute them for basic Angmar Orcs with hand-weapons or 2-handers. As long as I am clear about what they are, I can't imagine a problem.

Keep us up-to-date! :)