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View Full Version : Salamanders, Razordons, and handlers



Amnar
21-04-2009, 18:22
Hey guys, I don't play LM, I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on killing sallies/razordons. Can they still fire if all their handlers are dead?

What's the best way to deal with them?

kairous
21-04-2009, 18:23
Don't quote me on this, but as far as i know they can if they pass the relevant reaction test.

Amnar
21-04-2009, 18:24
That's what I was thinking. It makes them very hard to get rid of with shooting....

Ultimate Life Form
21-04-2009, 20:46
When the handlers die, itīs a Ld test for them. They pass, they act normally. They donīt, they roll on the monster reaction table. This includes the possibility they will hold their position, but still shoot at anything nearby.

Necromancy Black
21-04-2009, 22:28
My favorite is when they get frenzy and hatred. 3 Str 5 attacks with rerolls is awesome :D

Pavic
21-04-2009, 23:43
The best way to kill Sallies is to take them in combat. T4 with a 5+ AS is not going to go very far in combat, not to mention that they don't get rank bonuses.

Razors are a little different, primarily because they can really give you a beating on the way in if they are lucky. If the unit has 3 razors, that means the stand and shoot reaction will involve 6 artillery dice, which could really hurt if your opponent does not roll a misfire or two. Of course, CC is still the best way to deal with the razors if you can get in, as they are still only T4 with the 5+ AS.

Dexter099
22-04-2009, 00:34
a lone Chaos Warrior, the result of skink shooting and who was carrying his own banner plus two captured banners, double-teamed with my lord on a pack of razordons, beat them, broke them, and ran them down to tie up the game.

Necromancy Black
22-04-2009, 02:26
My Salamanders shot once in a game, then spent the rest killing dwarfs. Took out about 3 warmachine crews (love fear!).

They've also chewed through plenty an Ogre as well :p With your chaos warriors it's the saves that really make the difference.

goatfarmer03
27-04-2009, 22:50
Hows about when they Roll a 5-6 on the monster reaction table (after death of all skinks). They become Hatred And Frenzied, but they move autonomously. If the Salamanders/Razordons are alive at the end of the battle, with the 5-6 Monster Reaction, How are Victory Points Recorded? Just half for the dead skinks, or is the enemy rewarded full points since the Lizardmen Player is not in control of them anymore?

Ultimate Life Form
27-04-2009, 22:56
What gives you the idea they are no longer under the playerīs control? I still control them, there is no mysterious AI doing it for me. They suffer Frenzy and Hatred, thatīs all about it. By your logic, no frenzied unit should ever give the opponent victory points. That makes these Savage Orcs all the more attractive...

goatfarmer03
27-04-2009, 23:06
Yeah i wasn't exactly sure. I figured they were still under his "control". But since all his movement falls under compulsory type movement, and this was due to a monster test table, I was unsure if they were counted as not in complete control, sort of like a fleeing unit gives full VPs.

PS: I don't have the rulebook at work with me, but i recall it also mentioning something about the monster attacking anything in sight, friend or foe. If this is correct that would be quite different as well.

Nurgling Chieftain
27-04-2009, 23:14
A fleeing unit gives full VP's not because it's not under control, but because it is fundamentally considered defeated in game terms until such time as it rallies.

goatfarmer03
27-04-2009, 23:22
:) Ahh understood. Thanks for the replies. It had come up in a game that happened in my club. The other player has no Warseer account and wanted me to ask.

Ultimate Life Form
27-04-2009, 23:24
PS: I don't have the rulebook at work with me, but i recall it also mentioning something about the monster attacking anything in sight, friend or foe. If this is correct that would be quite different as well.

It only attacks foes.

Grimgormx
27-04-2009, 23:32
if salamanders and razordones were warmachines then you could get full victory points just by killing the skinks, but as they are monsters you can only get full victory points is by killing all.

Necromancy Black
28-04-2009, 03:20
if salamanders and razordones were warmachines then you could get full victory points just by killing the skinks, but as they are monsters you can only get full victory points is by killing all.

No, they're not monsters. They're skirmishers.

Chiungalla
29-04-2009, 04:57
I figured they were still under his "control". But since all his movement falls under compulsory type movement, and this was due to a monster test table, I was unsure if they were counted as not in complete control, sort of like a fleeing unit gives full VPs.

Not all his movement falls under compulsory type movement.
If no foe is in range or sight, they can move in the normal fashion.

Necromancy Black
29-04-2009, 07:36
Not all his movement falls under compulsory type movement.
If no foe is in range or sight, they can move in the normal fashion.

Doesn't matter. There is nothing that says units out of control count as destroyed for VP. That's like saying if you fail a stupidity test on the last turn the entire unit counts as destroyed.

goatfarmer03
04-05-2009, 04:29
Say the handlers all die, but the general is within 12". Can the Salamanders use the Generals Leadership for their Pre Monster Reaction Leadership roll? Or do they have to make it under their own Leadership?

Necromancy Black
04-05-2009, 05:26
The rules says they take a Leadership test. If they fail, they then take a monster reaction.

Therefore yes, they can use the General's leadership.

I think the difference is that monster's don't get a Leadership test before taking monster reactions.

goatfarmer03
04-05-2009, 13:49
Thanks alot Necro Black.

N810
04-05-2009, 13:55
Sound like we wher playing it right after all...

Necromancy Black
04-05-2009, 14:14
Problem I have is my Sallies are very rarely near my general. Usually they run up the flanks to spit fire everywhere.

On the other hand I really love getting Hatred and Frenzy on them. Plus with Cold-Blooded Ld4 can be passed more often then you'd expect!

Ultimate Life Form
04-05-2009, 14:16
Plus with Cold-Blooded Ld4 can be passed more often then you'd expect!

If you donīt mind, please tell mine. They never do it!:cries:

Necromancy Black
04-05-2009, 14:20
If you donīt mind, please tell mine. They never do it!:cries:

I've actually had them fail the test, taken a monster reaction, become stupid and then pass the next two Stupidity test's at which point the game ended :D

dariakus
04-05-2009, 17:20
How do you deal with cannon shots against these? Are they randomized, or is it the models that the cannon crosses? I dug around trying to find rules on this but I'm at a loss. Same goes for the Burning Head spell, actually.

Necromancy Black
04-05-2009, 22:34
With cannons whatever they touch in a straight line is what they hit. No randomising.

Bolt throwers are my favourite. They have to randomise and only hit one model.