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slingersam
22-04-2009, 16:08
Ok I was versing this Vamp count character and he had these ghosts that are ethernal, just wondering how do you deal with ethernal units in general?

W0lf
22-04-2009, 16:10
In the case of spirit hosts static combat res usually does it.

Magic+Magic weapons also help.

Urgat
22-04-2009, 16:53
Ethereal it is, not ethernal ;)

O&G'sRule
22-04-2009, 17:51
magic/magic weapons, or a static combat resolution that is greater than the ethereal unit can possibly counter, usually resulting in them losing combat and dying that way.

coalescence
22-04-2009, 17:56
Last sunday my opponents had 3 bases of spirit hosts and an ethereal black coach dying to a block of 20 saurus. My saurus just stood there and the thingies dropped dead.

Keller
22-04-2009, 18:01
In the case of spirit hosts static combat res usually does it.

Magic+Magic weapons also help.

Yep, CR and magic is the only way to hurt them. Depending on your army, one may be easier than the other.

Magical attacks are fairly common in some armies. All attacks made by demons are magical, attacks from Wood Elf Forest Spirits (about half the army,) attacks from Wights or Tomb Guard for the undead factions, and of course, runic/magical weapons, skaven warp-shooting, runed-warmachines, Grail-knights' blessed weapons, and of course, spell casting.

The other option is to engage with units who've maximized CR. Etheral units can typically only claim CR from wounds inflicted, so an infantry block with +5 (or more!) CR to start (3 ranks, standard, out number) will drain them quickly unless they can do a lot of damage back. Alternatively, units with high T and/or armor can minimize their CR enabling you to win.
Most ethereal units are going to tarpit you, though, so it can be hard to deal with a large unit quickly if you don't have magical attacks.

Personally, I find the best thing is to just blast them with magic, but typically that is easier said than done with VC's typical magic-heavy armies. If I must engage, I try to ensure a character w/ magic weapon can lend a hand, backed by my infantry regiments with static CR.


The worst part about ethereals is that some armies are just ill-equipped to handle them. An Ogre army, for example, could easily be helpless against them, since they lack static CR to win combats and may not have magical waepons handy to hurt them. Ethereals in lower-point games are just wicked, since often times the specialized units and items are the last things bought.

ManOfRust
22-04-2009, 19:02
Of all ethereal units probably the hardest to deal with are cairn-wraiths and banshees, even without the banshee's scream the wraiths put out a damaging number of S5 attacks and being M6 Skirmishers (besides being able to go straight through impassable terrain) they are frighteningly mobile.

Fast enough to avoid the high CR they can't fight and invulnerable to nearly anything that can catch them. A fast-moving character wielding a magic-weapon had better have high-leadership or he's not going to survive the 360' stand-and-shoot banshee scream. Even a moderate strength magic missile is going to cause severe harm on the other hand and they make for a surprisingly worthwhile target in the VC lineup.

GuyLeCheval
22-04-2009, 19:22
I play Skaven, nuff said ;)

Mireadur
22-04-2009, 19:33
Perfectly put there Manofrust. I take off my hat to your reply.

Surprinsingly and due to the terrifying number of S5 attacks they put out, they can deal with any kind of unit in CC even on the front. This is the main reason for which i believe the wraiths are overpowered and should lose 1 attack.

In fact their only weakness (magic missiles) it is not so much considering VC will go normally quite heavy on dice and they can re-raise the wraiths (even if just 1 wound per casting) quite easily.

Peregijn
22-04-2009, 20:42
i haven't played against them yet, but when i do (and i plan to do that in the near future) i know my knights will get them, there ensorcelled weapons can hurt them... (and i dont think my oppont knows that...)

edit: i play chaos and i am talking about chaos knights

slingersam
22-04-2009, 22:27
Ya sorry I always call them ethernal, ethereal wraiths was annoying as it was tearing through my saurus blocks, and was killing my kroxigors like flies attached to a spider web

Jacen
22-04-2009, 22:46
Ahh, Wraiths against Lizardmen, sweet memories... Only time I have fielded them, against 6ed LM without any wizards at all, the only one who had magic attacks were the Oldblood and a Skink Chief :P

slingersam
22-04-2009, 22:50
Welcome to Warseer, and nice to see your first post in my Thread, anyway you know exactly what I'm talking about, freaking brutal

Jacen
22-04-2009, 22:56
Thank you, nice to be here :D

Yeah, one of the few times I won against that Lizardmen-player, Sword of Kings took care of his Oldblood... Wait, it was a Draw, because his Kroxigors (S7, remember) found my Vampire Lord in round 5 and killed him deader

slingersam
22-04-2009, 23:36
A unit of Saurus warriors + my Oldblood with blades of realities,enchanted shield, light armor, and some other things forgot what. But anyway I charge this unit of skeleton warriors with a Weight King, I challenge thinking with the blades I will be able to dominate him, anyway His king has ASF and a weapon that lets get KB on a 5,6. So pretty much he wounds me I die. Toughness 5 vs strength 3. Ya 2 rounds of combat were my Saurus warriors are hitting his WS 7 skeletons (stupid helmet). In the ended he kills my Lord lvl and my Saurus units stupid ITP. On the other side his wraiths start charging my unit of skink + skink priest, Saurus block and the kroxgiors. Pretty much held up all 3 units (kept attacking the Skinks).

Crube
23-04-2009, 13:48
Think this would be better suited to Fantasy Tactics...


Thread moved

Crube
The Warseer Inquisition

coalescence
23-04-2009, 15:09
A unit of Saurus warriors + my Oldblood with blades of realities,enchanted shield, light armor, and some other things forgot what. But anyway I charge this unit of skeleton warriors with a Weight King, I challenge thinking with the blades I will be able to dominate him, anyway His king has ASF and a weapon that lets get KB on a 5,6. So pretty much he wounds me I die. Toughness 5 vs strength 3. Ya 2 rounds of combat were my Saurus warriors are hitting his WS 7 skeletons (stupid helmet). In the ended he kills my Lord lvl and my Saurus units stupid ITP. On the other side his wraiths start charging my unit of skink + skink priest, Saurus block and the kroxgiors. Pretty much held up all 3 units (kept attacking the Skinks).

You should have turned that around ;)

Spirit
23-04-2009, 15:25
Burning alignment owns them hard. d6 S5 hits usually takes 3 wounds off them.

(Please don't start the debate here, if you disagree simply because you want to argue it's not magical, then i concede right now, but my store classes it as magical)

coalescence
23-04-2009, 15:31
Burning alignment owns them hard. d6 S5 hits usually takes 3 wounds off them.

(Please don't start the debate here, if you disagree simply because you want to argue it's not magical, then i concede right now, but my store classes it as magical)


Theres nothing to argue about ;) Skink Priest -> Magic Phase -> Magic attack. 'nuff said.

slingersam
23-04-2009, 20:14
Ya didnt know it cause str 5 hits against them. Also the ETOG was a bit far from them..

Lord Dan
23-04-2009, 21:58
Theres nothing to argue about ;) Skink Priest -> Magic Phase -> Magic attack. 'nuff said.

Clearly not. I have no idea what you're on about, presumably because some argument got deleted.

kardar233
24-04-2009, 00:08
There was a big discussion about whether the Engine's Burning Alignment causes magical hits, as it wasn't exactly specified. It basically comes down to RAW vs RAI. It's a giant Aztec Lazar firin at you, and this ain't 40K so it sure as hell is magic.