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Angelust
22-04-2009, 19:02
Hey guys. First go at a list. Please rip it apart!


Epic Hero:
Durburz
Khamul

Common:
x5 Warg Pack - Single 2-warg units
Prowlers x9 - Large formation, no command

Rare:
Gundabad Blackshields x9 - Drummers, Captain
Balrog
Mordor Siege Bow x3

1430

I have 70 pts, and can fiddle with it for a Fate or a cave troll or something.



I originally had 3x3 companies of goblin archers, but the seige bow just seems so much better for around the same cost, and I had lots of common formations so I didn't think it was necessary.

Anyway, thoughts and critique would be great! Thanks.

Faeslayer
22-04-2009, 19:30
Thematically it's pretty crazy, if you care about that. :)

It seems awfully small for a Misty Mountains list, just compared to the ones I've seen.

Nu Fenix
22-04-2009, 19:40
I concur that you only really have the Balrog and two combat units - Having all of the Warg Packs as one company formations just means they will pop super fast, and not do more then explode by archery or getting into combat with the enemy.

For the same points you would be better with more Goblins, likely Prowlers for more damage. They would need to be split into two formations to keep the Decree of Rarity legal.

Angelust
22-04-2009, 20:50
I guess you're right about the theme.

How about something closer to

Durburz
Balrog
Prowlers x9
Goblin x6 - Shields
Goblin Archers 2x3 - 2 units of x3 companies
Gundabad x9 - Shields, drummer, captain
Wargs 2x3 - 2 units of x3 companies

Something along those lines...

3 combat units, 2 archer units, 2 cav units, a balrog, and durburz to lead the show.

Jorgen_CAB
23-04-2009, 06:09
I would say that the last list that you present looks pretty good.

You have little of everything and should be able to be quite competitive with that list. Though, I really think that prowlers work better in smaller formations since that makes them so much more mobile. You do want them to be able to flank charge the enemy... they are good as monster hunters and so on.
I would at least test and run them in three formations of three companies each or why not test to run them in two company formations... but I think three companies per formation give them both some durability and offensive power.

Angelust
23-04-2009, 17:36
OK, new list refined based upon suggestions here.

Durburz

x3 Goblin Archer
x3 Goblin Archer
x3 prowlers
x3 prowlers
x3 prowlers
x3 Wargs
x3 Wargs

Cave Troll
Cave Troll
Cave Troll

x9 Gundabad Blackshields - Drums
Balrog

1470


I don't know anything about Fates. Any suggestions for a 25 pt fate filler?


Also, how necessary are captains in squads -- i.e. will Durburz in the blackshields be enough, or should I add a captain too? The upgrades are so expensive compared to the units basic cost.

Thanks, any help would be appreciated.

Nu Fenix
23-04-2009, 18:38
Captains are expensive, especially when compared to Orcs and Goblins with such cheap companies.
However, being able to call Heroic actions, as well as try to protect them against magic is very useful.
It also puts less pressure on Durburz, as he can't be everywhere at once, and even though he has Overlord, he doesn't have as much Might as you would like, and will watch it vanish very quickly.

For a 25 point Fate, Tokens of Terror to make your Blackshields causes Terror may be useful, as it could help protect you from a charge, or make the enemy become Fight 0 to get even more attacks out.
Alternatively, Curse of Morgoth could be help turn a single dice roll into one that ruins them or saves you, depending on the roll.

Sarah S
23-04-2009, 18:41
I would say that Captains are more valuable for At the Double than even their uses of Might.

Nu Fenix
23-04-2009, 18:53
Indeed! I can't believe I forgot to mention that :S

Since you want to flank the enemy due to Prowler and getting less attacks back, being able to move at double speed is very useful to you.

Angelust
23-04-2009, 19:03
I was thinking Durburz could use heroic move on a couple formations to get them to move 24-27 inches. (If that's the right way to interpret his rules).

Theoretically he could get the blackshields up to the enemy deployment in turn one, right? (Although that would subject them to getting charged by the enemy a lot of times)

Babolat360
23-04-2009, 20:16
I believe only epic heroes in formations can do at the double!.

Nu Fenix
23-04-2009, 20:36
Any formation with a hero in can call At The Double!, as mentioned on page 64.

Angelust
23-04-2009, 20:51
And Durburz can do it with his Overlord ability on any goblin unit in 12", right? Maybe just slingshot a few units into the flanks of an army?

Nu Fenix
23-04-2009, 20:55
That isn't what Overlord does. It lets friendly Goblin formations within 24" use his Might to call Heroic actions.

So you still need a hero in the unit to At The Double!

Angelust
23-04-2009, 21:12
So Durburz basically acts as spare might points for any unit within 12" that already has a hero? Hm...

I guess that makes more sense. Too bad captains are so expensive compared to the unit (i.e. 2.5 companies!)

Jorgen_CAB
24-04-2009, 05:52
No and Yes...

You need a hero to do "At the Double!", this is not a Heroic Action and does not cost any Might.

The overlord ability will let Durburz do Heroic actions with units that are within 24", that are two different things.

In the list that you presented I would drop one formation of prowlers and put a captain in each of the two others. You need speed and maneuverability to get them where they need to get. You also need to extra Might, Durburz don't have unlimited Might points.

Heroic Charge and Heroic Fight can basically win you the game if used at the right moment.

Angelust
26-04-2009, 05:41
Trying a totally revamped army list, based on a dragon theme.

Durburz
3x3 - Goblin Archer
2x6 - Goblins with Shields

x3 - Cave Drakes
x1 - Dragon Spellcaster

50 pts left over for gollum, a fate, or a ballista or something.

What do you guys think? The 2x6 shield goblins are just there to screen and tangle up a unit or two for a turn while the drakes and dragon do the cleanup.

Sarah S
28-04-2009, 07:13
So Durburz basically acts as spare might points for any unit within 12" that already has a hero? Hm...

I guess that makes more sense. Too bad captains are so expensive compared to the unit (i.e. 2.5 companies!)

Actually... According to GW, you don't need a Hero in the formation you are performing actions for with Overlord:


Overlord
The Overlord ability enables a Hero to spend Might points on behalf of a friendly formation within 24". This is especially handy when you're using formations that don't normally have Might points of their own, such as Vault Wardens, Uruk-hai Berserkers and the like. This way you can ensure they get to charge with a well-placed Heroic Charge.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=4400007&pIndex=2&aId=12800001&start=3

Not how I would have first interpreted it, but does seem to be within the scope of the wording of the rule.

Angelust
29-04-2009, 07:43
Just finished a game against gondor with...

Durburz
Druzhag

2x3 - Goblin Archers
2x4 - Prowlers
2x3 - Wargs

1x9 - Gundabads with Drummer
x2 - Cave Trolls
x1 - Balrog

1475 (Couldn't think of a fate to add)

Treated Overlord as working on units without a hero.

We played the kill-point-ish mission, and deployed shield-wall.

I gotta say, MM doesn't have many epic heroes, but the ones they have are incredibly useful for their points. Durburz epic cowardice got him away from a nasty charge, which saved me losing 4 victory points! His courage boosting really saved my bacon as well, all for 25 more pts than a standard captain.

Druzhag was just ridiculous. He raised 9 giant spiders all together, rolling a 6 each time. The ability to summon, move, and charge is just nasty. He raised 315 pts worth of spiders, and his spells helped out too.

Balrog didn't do quite as much as I'd hoped, but he did bag a king of the dead, and was later charged by the left-over of boromir's knight company. It was just boromir's mounted command formation, and he epic challenged. He had some fate where a captain somewhere spent his might pt, and boromir regenerated all 6 after an epic challenge to my balrog. The balrog charges boromir, and boromir fails his leadership with snake-eyes. He uses two might to bump it up to 10, uses +1 for epic strike, the ability to roll 2 duel dice and take the highest. He rolls a 1, I roll a 3 and bump it up with a might pt leftover, winning by 2. The Balrog killed his companion, and wipes out Boromir :-)

The 9-company unit of blackshields held well with 7 companies left at the end. They're about average in combat, but their high movement really lets them chase down units and cavalry.

Everything else worked out about as expected.

I'll have to work on a couple modifications in the future now that I've seen some game mechanics in play by a competent player...

Emissary
29-04-2009, 15:04
Curse of Morgoth or whatever it's called is a great fate. It can be countered rather well by might, but can also make a sudden failed charge or save your hard to kill monster.

Angelust
30-04-2009, 07:06
I don't have the book with me, so I can't remember what Curse of Morgoth does. The black trees one didn't seem too bad, seeing as how defensible terrain was a real thorn in the side last time...