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View Full Version : Can flame templates hit into combat?



LKHERO
22-04-2009, 19:58
Razordons shooting at a unit that's already in combat more specifically.

Lord Zarkov
22-04-2009, 20:13
Presumably you mean Salamanders?

You can't aim into combat (unless you're skaven) but if you aim/guess for a reasonble target and overshoot on the dice roll then models in combat will still be hit.

LKHERO
22-04-2009, 20:39
Presumably you mean Salamanders?

You can't aim into combat (unless you're skaven) but if you aim/guess for a reasonble target and overshoot on the dice roll then models in combat will still be hit.

Yes, Salamanders.

So if something is tied up in CC, that means it can't be targeted by the Salamander right?

Fellblade
22-04-2009, 20:50
Correct. Templates can only hit units in combat accidentally (unless you're skaven).

Necromancy Black
22-04-2009, 22:55
But if you had this:



xxxxx h
xxxxx zzzzz S h
xxxxx zzzzz Sh h
sssss h
sssss


Where x and z are enemy units, s are Saurus, S are Salamanders and h are the handlers.

Unit z is a valid target for the Salamanders to target. If the scatter takes the template over into the combat unit x is still hit by the template and will take wounds as normal (put doesn't panic).

The good thing that the template moves in a straight line so the Lizardmen player can control the angle so it won't hit his Saurus if it scatters.

Fellblade
22-04-2009, 23:05
As a note to the above, if unit x is within, say, 14-16" of the salamanders who are shooting it might not be considered a valid shot. Any close than that virtually guarantees a hit on the more distant unit which isn't allowed. The lizardman player had the ability to position the shooting unit in such a way to not directly target engaged models.

At this point, however, it becomes a judgment call. Intent isn't really an easy thing to prove.

Necromancy Black
22-04-2009, 23:23
Hey, there's every change then can miss fire and do nothing :p

It depends on who your playing with really. Besides, what if there are no other valid targets around, are you going to force the player to not shoot because of that? I don't find that really fair. Plus you can use to to your advantige by huging your troops next to combat to deny Salamanders trying to shoot them because of the almost guarentee of hitting the combat.

Personally I would just love the option of not having to roll the artillery dice and just use it as a breath weapon in some cases.

Fellblade
23-04-2009, 08:46
Besides, what if there are no other valid targets around, are you going to force the player to not shoot because of that?
Its no different than if you have an archer unit and all the enemies are engaged in combat. At least with salamanders you can position them in such a way you don't hit engaged models most of the time. In the above example, the lizardman player could bring his unit south a bit and back up making hitting the target unit still likely and reduce the chance of an "accidental" overshot.
Its one thing if your opponent is trying to following the rules, its another if they move in for a point blank shot knowing they'll hit the more juicy target in close combat. If you want to shoot into combat, play skaven. =)

Necromancy Black
23-04-2009, 08:52
Like I said, your opponent can also position his unit purposely so that the chance of hitting combat is too great to let the Salamanders fire.

So it's a form of trust that has to go both ways.

MarcoPollo
23-04-2009, 16:04
It's kind of like cannon sniping through a screen. Alot of player do it. I don't like it, but I also will do it. If I believe that the player is deliberately trying to cannon snipe by overguessing too, then I have an issue.

It really comes down to sportsmanship. If I feel the opponent is playing dirty, then I will too. But if the opponent is fair, then if my sally hits engeged models, then I discount those hits as a matter of good manners and sportsmanship.

Gazak Blacktoof
23-04-2009, 16:32
Like I said, your opponent can also position his unit purposely so that the chance of hitting combat is too great to let the Salamanders fire.

So it's a form of trust that has to go both ways.


That would be difficult to achieve given that the salamanders themselves are skirmishers and can just backup a bit.

Spirit
25-04-2009, 21:31
So can a skaven warp fire thrower just position the warp fire at a unit in combat and then hit whatever is under the template?

Sounds lie they can do some nasty damage (especially if placed 1-2" behind a clan rat unit in combat)

sulla
25-04-2009, 22:50
So can a skaven warp fire thrower just position the warp fire at a unit in combat and then hit whatever is under the template?

Sounds lie they can do some nasty damage (especially if placed 1-2" behind a clan rat unit in combat)

Yes they can. This is limited by the fact that templates are pretty poor vs pretty much any base except 20mm ones and even against them, the ratling is usually a better choice. Especially since it should net you 10 hits almost every time you use it.