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Lex
23-04-2009, 14:58
I was thinking about taking this list for a tournament in July. What do you think?

Dreadlord: HA, Sh, SDC, Hydra Blade, PoK, PoStr, DS - 273
Master: HA, SDC, Sh, BSB, Soulrender, SoG - 160
Sorc: 2 Scrolls - 150
Assassin - AHW, RoK, Manbane - 146

18 Corsairs - FC, AHW, SSS (Assassin here) - 230
10 Corsairs - HB - 100
10 Corsairs - HB - 100
10 RXB - 100
10 RXB - 100
5 Harpies - 55
5 Harpies - 55

17 BG - FC, BoHG, RoH - 316
COC - 100
COC - 100
5 Shades - GW - 90

Hydra - 175

Total 2250

Dark14
23-04-2009, 15:16
combine the 2 10strong make it 20.

bob_the_small
23-04-2009, 18:12
DE list in a tournament, get a manticore or a dragon, hydra, 2 bolt throwers and either go magic heavy or just go for scroll caddies...

MTUCache
24-04-2009, 01:10
Can't really fault you for: Lord, Scroll Caddy, RXBsx10x2, Harpies, BG/ASF/RoH, Shades/GW, or Hydra. All (with the possibly exception of Harpies) are pretty much stock standard choices in the DE list for competitive stuff right now.

The other choices though are kina.... meh.... dunno 'bout 'em.

Corsairs are a neat idea, and the fluff would probably make for a decent backstory, but they're kinda out-shined by the warriors right now. The handbows are kind of a strange option anyway, as you're better off just using the RXBs and giving up the Sea Dragon Cloaks.

Warriors with spears get you just as many attacks (more if you factor in front-rank casualties), and they have the same armor save if you give them shields. For the 430 points you're putting into two units (well, as mentioned before, it should be two units) of 20, you could field two units of Warriors for around 300 points (depending on command/banners), saving you enough for a free Assassin, or RBT, or unit of Dark Riders, or.... well, we'll get into that.

CoC, again, are a neat idea... but they simply don't get the job done as well as another unit could. I get it, you need hammers to use with your infantry blocks (afterall, you've got three of them). Chariots hit hard, but they're slower than cav and there are just so many S7 things out there that eat chariots for breakfast. Back when you could stick a character in them and get a US5 they were a better option (because they'd cancel ranks), but now they don't even get you that. Plus, they're not even a 2-for-1 special choice now. They completely nerfed the CoCs in this edition of DE.

Knights (x5, no upgrades) are the way to go here... stupidity obviously isn't an issue (you've already got it anyway on the CoC), they hit just as hard, and they cancel ranks. Granted, if they do run into something at S7 they'll probably get destroyed almost as quickly as a chariot, but at least it won't be an insta-pop. I'd much rather spend an extra 43 points per unit (assuming x5 with musician) to get that extra speed.

As for Magic... I'd probably give up the Assassin for another Sorceress with some upgrades, but that's just my personal style. It's gives you another aspect of your army (magic offense instead of just defense), and gives you a much more competitive defense (5DD >> 4DD, even with dual scrolls and the RoH... tournament VC are ridiculous right now).

I'm personally with Bob on the Manticore/Dragon thing, but again, that's just me. Three blocks of infantry (including BG), two hammers and the Hydra give you a very flexible battle line. I just prefer to have my flier be able to actually do something, rather than the Harpies.

fubukii
24-04-2009, 06:02
seems like a pretty tame de list, i mean you even took corsairs and no dark riders, no rbt, no 2 hydra, no gw on dreadlord : x, no dragon, very few shades

should do ok though if not playing other competitive armies.

Repsajanus
25-04-2009, 16:46
Has anyone of you played against that unit of frenzied corsairs? It's really strong! I myself use them allmost anytime and they never cease to surprise me! killing any opponent that stands in their way, especially if there's an assassin in that unit.

But I don't know about the ones with handbows... it's a lot of points and if you cut them you can have 2 RBT, I can only tell you that I would choose for the RBT's as they are one of the best pieces of artillery in the game. Multi-purpose warmachines that will help you in any battle.

One question : your lord is on his own, I think. Have you used that set-up before, because I doubt his effectiveness?

ICEMANQ
26-04-2009, 05:02
Handbows are useless. What are you going to do, stand at 8 inches and shoot? You are begging for a beating. Or use them (once) for stand and shoot?

fubukii
27-04-2009, 02:15
Has anyone of you played against that unit of frenzied corsairs? It's really strong! I myself use them allmost anytime and they never cease to surprise me! killing any opponent that stands in their way, especially if there's an assassin in that unit.

But I don't know about the ones with handbows... it's a lot of points and if you cut them you can have 2 RBT, I can only tell you that I would choose for the RBT's as they are one of the best pieces of artillery in the game. Multi-purpose warmachines that will help you in any battle.

One question : your lord is on his own, I think. Have you used that set-up before, because I doubt his effectiveness?

yea the assassin can rack up some kills, the str 3 corsairs on the other hand not so much unless of course your fighting unarmoed foes. If im going with expensive infantry give me black guard.

MTUCache
27-04-2009, 16:26
Has anyone of you played against that unit of frenzied corsairs? It's really strong! I myself use them allmost anytime and they never cease to surprise me! killing any opponent that stands in their way, especially if there's an assassin in that unit.

I, personally, don't see it.

If I was looking for S3/T3 frenzied troops in the DE list, I'd lean towards the Witch Elves (which I don't, but that's another story). Putting 5+ armor on them and an Assassin (which is essentially what he's doing) doesn't exactly strike me as a good use of points. You're talking 350+ points for a unit that is going to die. No bones about it, this is the easy points-target in the army (5+AS, T3 makes this soft). It will be priority target number one, because of it's point cost, for warmachines, magic, and elite/high-strength shock troops. Once you go with the frenzy, putting an assassin in the mix just makes it worse, because any smart general is going to lead this unit around by it's nose, giving you zero good things to pop your assassin at, while they poor all their shooting/magic into it. Another free 100 VPs for your opponent, and thy never even got into a real combat (other than maybe chasing a unit of fast-cav off the board).

I divide my infantry units into three types: tarpits, CR-blocks, and shock-troops. The BG count as both 1 & 3. The Corsairs are mostly 2, with a little bit of 3 against weak troops. For the most part though, you're taking them for the CR they provide. If that's the case, I can't imagine a reason why you'd take them (at 10 points per model) instead of Warriors (at 6/7 per model).

They are there to die, right? You're willing to put a standard in them for the CR boost, but you're basically hoping that they'll hold up your opponent's heavy hitters for long enough for the rest of your army to do it's job.

Why spend 250+ points to do that job when 150 will do it just as well? With all the ridiculously great things in the DE special/rare slots, I can always think of ways to use an extra 100 points in that list.

Lex
27-04-2009, 19:21
Actually, Corsairs have a 4+ save vs. shooting. Better than anything save Knights and chariots. So I don't know why you'd think they would be a bigger shooting target than the 5+ BG who are ItP, Stubborn, etc. Because the Assassin's in there? How would they know that? Assassin can be in many units to be successful. I just listed that I'd put him in there for most occassions. Also, any smart general who's used frenzy can screen frenzy so as not to be placed in awkward situations. Infantry frenzy is much easier to control than cavalry frenzy. The handbow Corsairs provide excellent screens for shooting, frenzy and such. The Harpies can also screen. Also, put the unit anywhere close to the Hydra and what unit is going to try and be within the 10" charge range of the Corsairs to lead it around? I think the biggest probability is that it may make a failed charge and get charged in return, therefore the assassin.


Edit: of course this is all irrelevant since I have decided that I will likely not play in the tournament after all.