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Ksarn
23-04-2009, 17:53
I really think we should start up an elf tactics, because as it stands, I fail to see what the real strengths of the army are.

I play fallen realms and although the terror may rarely put a twist in my plans, for the most part when my easterlings and haradrim get across the table, the elves pretty much get slapped around by similar quality troops till they die, I end up outnumbering them 3 to 1 so I can take the shooting casualties.

In combat they wi ll get a few extra dice on you because of fight value, however having a 2 hander, or defense 7 really is more valuable IMO than the fight value. Also my ringwraith is a similar caster to the few that the elf can put out and IMO I have a better lore. Not to mention a Mumak which will run his expensive troops to the ground.

Any suggestions for the elf players around here?

Faeslayer
23-04-2009, 18:49
I disagree about the magic; command is a fantastic spell list, especially for elves.

Elves do seem a bit overpriced (one unit of high elf archers costs as much as two companies of shielded easterlings!), but it seems to work out, mostly through terror and our phenomenal characters.

I feel they rely upon finesse a bit more than usual.

Waaagh Grignak
23-04-2009, 19:01
Im looking forward to taking on my mates fallen realms with the might of the Galadhrim (In June!)

I intend to use my superior speed to outflank his lines and crush on end of it with a large block of galadhrim knights lead by Celeborn.

I will use terror as a bonus, and not plan my strategies around it. As was said earlier, we are more than likely outnumber so i will want to soften up the enemies hardest units with a lot of missile fire from my 3 companies of galadhrim and 3 of haldir's elves

General Veers
23-04-2009, 19:44
i will want to soften up the enemies hardest units

However, I've noticed that a Fallen Realms force can put their "fodder" up front and hide the second line :eek: (which is the Easterlings of course) so one may not have as many opportunities to shoot at the hardest units early and often.

Harad Archers are machine gunners, they should be a targeting priority. I like the D3 wood elves for that. Whenever possible my unarmored, cloaked elves are going directly against that unit.

Glorfindel is simply too useful though. Need to get rid of a monster? Send in Glor. Need to get rid of a unit of orcs getting too close to your unarmored wood elves? Send in Glor. Amdur has used up all his might and is bearing down on yet another unit? Send in Glor! FTW. Problem is remembering all the rules. :D

Ksarn
23-04-2009, 22:36
The problem with flanking moves is that my army goes from board edge to v
Board edge it will not be possible.

A horde army can easily accomplish this and once the elves are cornered those expensive troops will die quickly to attrition

Faeslayer
24-04-2009, 00:37
Suppose I'll contribute-

Rivendell Guard:

They aren't worth it, I think.

Statwise, this unit is identical to a High Elf Cohort. Erestor is the same as a Cohort captain, so those extra points are just for Stalwart and a banner. As a speedy Elf unit, pushback from shooting is the least of its concerns; in my opinion, those points would be better spent elsewhere.

A formation of 3 Rivendell companies (with Erestor and banner) is about the same cost as 4 Cohort companies (with captain and banner). Would Stalwart ever serve that unit as well as an entire extra company?

Axis
24-04-2009, 00:55
One thing you shouldn't forget about high elf archers is that they have excellent firepower but are also quite good in combat. So don't be afraid to get them in combat. Sure, they are only defence 5 but that is not the worst. If you are worried about that take a hero with epic defence.

Quannum
24-04-2009, 01:13
Elven formations work best in small and manouvreable blocks of two companies, three maximum. As we are elite, we need to be relying on balancing our low numbers with might points. I really think Elves test a general's ability to use Might at the right moments of a battle. We can't afford to just throw them at things like Will of Iron tests, etc.

My unit of choice in the Elven list is 3 Companies of Haldir's Elves. The best archers in the game, cause terror and are competent in combat too. My config of choice for Elves is the following:

Galadhrim Warriors - 150 pts.
2 Companies/Captain

VeriNasti
24-04-2009, 02:11
Formations of two companies are best - just enough to stay alive without being flanked
High elf cohort seems to be a good solid choice
Glorfindel kills everything
Take white council for bigger games - 500pts for just that unit although very strong casting wise

Jorgen_CAB
24-04-2009, 06:31
The problem with flanking moves is that my army goes from board edge to v
Board edge it will not be possible.

A horde army can easily accomplish this and once the elves are cornered those expensive troops will die quickly to attrition

In my opinion you need to play in a much larger battlefield. They even state so in the book. It is better to have too much room than not have any room for maneuvering. They really tell us that in the rules...

Ksarn
24-04-2009, 08:03
we were playing on an 8x4 :wtf:

3000 points a side, basically I refused my flanks on both sides with the board edge, then walked across and hit them till they stopped moving.

General Veers
24-04-2009, 13:08
2,000 points on a 6x4 = Fallen Realms horde can deploy board edge to board edge
3,000 points on a 8x4 = Fallen Realms horde can deploy board edge to board edge.

Quite easy to do with them actually.

Jorgen_CAB
24-04-2009, 13:35
2,000 points on a 6x4 = Fallen Realms horde can deploy board edge to board edge
3,000 points on a 8x4 = Fallen Realms horde can deploy board edge to board edge.

Quite easy to do with them actually.

I can easily deploy edge to edge with both my Mordor and Gondor forces in a 8x4 battlefield with 2000-2500 points. 6x4 are good for battles up to 1250-1000 in my opinion and 8x4 up to 2000p maximum. It all depends on how many point you spend on troops, monsters and heroes i guess.

Granted i only have 1000p at this moment, but I have done some extrapolating and theorizing quite a bit in Paintshop on the computer...

In the spirit (and fairness) of the rules you need a bigger battlefield when that many models are fielded.

In all fairness you might also need a deeper battlefield when you play with as much as 3000p, you really need room to maneuver your troops around for the game to be even more fun.

thorgrim
24-04-2009, 22:53
Suppose I'll contribute-

Rivendell Guard:

They aren't worth it, I think.

Statwise, this unit is identical to a High Elf Cohort. Erestor is the same as a Cohort captain, so those extra points are just for Stalwart and a banner. As a speedy Elf unit, pushback from shooting is the least of its concerns; in my opinion, those points would be better spent elsewhere.

A formation of 3 Rivendell companies (with Erestor and banner) is about the same cost as 4 Cohort companies (with captain and banner). Would Stalwart ever serve that unit as well as an entire extra company?

The Rivendell guard are cheaper than a High elf cohort with the same upgrades. You pay more per company but recieve a cheap banner (which is worth it in my opinion). Its only when you get a full 6 companies (max for both formations) that the guard lose to the cohort on points.

fubukii
24-04-2009, 23:48
one reason to take rivendel guard over cohorts is that cohorts are max size 4 while rivendell guards are 6

Faeslayer
25-04-2009, 02:32
The Rivendell guard are cheaper than a High elf cohort with the same upgrades. You pay more per company but recieve a cheap banner (which is worth it in my opinion). Its only when you get a full 6 companies (max for both formations) that the guard lose to the cohort on points.

I think you're not costing it correctly, or our books have different points listed...

A Cohort formation with captain and banner is cheaper than a Rivendell formation of the same size, from one company up to and including four companies.

The max size for a Cohort formation is four companies, so the comparison ends there.

This difference in cost (which begins at 45 points and gets bigger with each company) is what you pay for Stalwart.

Remember, the cost of a 1-company legendary formation is the base cost of the formation plus the cost of one company.

Quannum
25-04-2009, 11:07
Remember, the cost of a 1-company legendary formation is the base cost of the formation plus the cost of one company.

This, for everyone's information, is 100% correct. End of.

Q

Calith
26-04-2009, 08:53
What does every one think of Mirkwood Sentinels are they worth the points? is their song a decent ability?

Faeslayer
01-05-2009, 18:20
After making a bunch of lists, I've found that the Rivendell Guard are great for not taking up Rare slots that the Galadhrim Knights need.

So here I am, eating my words. :D

Hoster
01-05-2009, 20:52
Has anyone found themselves giving priority to the opposing side a lot more playing an elf force?

I find I prefer to manoeuvre second, allowing archers to position themselves out of range of incoming fire but still allowing longbows to fire. I find flanking very important with elves because any hits hurt more than any other race, therefore putting units into the side is useful.

Many of the best spells that elves use can be countered (immobilises and courage reductions), making going second better.

This does mean I use might to declare heroic charges fairly often, which makes Elrohir and Elladan nice (they tend to be in my cavalry units).

Going second allows counter charges from archers that were on the flanks or others.

Lastly, giving your friend priority makes them uneasy as to what you have planned.

SJBenoist
04-05-2009, 12:31
All the following is IMO, YMMV, IIRC, and so forth. I don't have a rulebook with me at the moment.


Maximize your Terror.
While you can not rely on Terror alone, you have access to several spells that lower your enemies C. Your generic Captains will also generally have higher F than your enemies ... duel them to eliminate the C bonus imparted to the formation.
Also, Inner Glory (50 pts) is a must for all Elf armies, IMO. The ability to hit your opponents strongest formation with ~45 dice using just 3 companies can be a devastating opening ;).

Use the Land Against Them
Unless your facing mostly Goblins, lead the fight straight into the worst terrain on the board. All Elves have a movement of 8 or better and (IIRC) are Master Pathfinders.
The best way to use the terrain somewhat depends on which type of Elves you are fielding.

Elves are Mighty
Many of the units have pretty good access to Might for the points.
E.g. Galadriel and the twins gives you two free heroic actions per turn for a measly 245 points.

Hope some of this helps.

Angelust
07-05-2009, 17:30
Yeah, taking on goblins in terrain is a bad idea. Especially once the prowlers hit...

moar barmu
12-05-2009, 01:31
Could someone do a list of the units and heroes of this faction like in other tactica threads?
Thanks.

Intrepid Adventurer
13-06-2009, 09:31
So I'm stuck. Which are better: High Elves or Galadhrim? What do you use?

Mephaine
13-06-2009, 11:57
Thranduil or Gildor's Household are pretty useful. A nice Level 2 Caster and Wilderness allows more power on controling the field via Panic Beast, Entangle or Call Winds, some nice offensive magic with Nature's Wrath and buff up the Elves already amazing archery more with Guide Arrows.

Now for each of there pluses. Thranduil has 2 nice abilities namely Epic Strike but more importantly Epic Shot. Who can complain about an extra D6 auto hits.
Gildor's formation doesnt have throwing weapons but has longbows in exchange which is kl, his enitre Formation Ambushes again kl, Gildor has one more Might than a standard Captain and you get a Banner Bearer which is useful.

These two guys I find are pretty good in the same force.

Axis
14-06-2009, 04:49
I've found gildor's household to be well worth the points. Very very useful. The fact that they are ambushers sometimes makes people deploy in a cautious way which is really nice too

Intrepid Adventurer
17-06-2009, 15:53
Any comments on the HE/Galadhrim issue?

Axis
18-06-2009, 00:00
I prefer High Elves since they are better but galadhrim are cheaper (and you can use Celeborn to good effect). Really the difference isn't huge. Depends on theme and which models you use.