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Lugribossk
25-04-2009, 00:33
I've been reading through the War of the Rings rules and rather like them, seems like a nice streamlining of Warhammer with the best bits from 40k and Warmaster. Unfortunately it's also borrowed the other games' tendency for inconsistent rules. Here's the ones I've stumbled upon:

A Galadhrim Archer Captain, Banner Bearer and Hornblower costs 50+35+15 = 100 points.
The command group in Haldir's Elves with Haldir, Banner Bearer and Hornblower costs 95 points.
The formations are otherwise identical except Haldir is 5 points cheaper *and* has an extra point of Might and the Take Aim special rule.

A High Elf Cohort Commander and Banner Bearer costs 50+35 = 75 points.
The command group in the Rivendell Guard with Erestor and Banner Bearer costs 125 points.
The Guards company itself has both Stalwart and costs 5 points more which makes sense, but their command group is still 50 points more expensive with no difference in abilities and they can't take a hornblower.

A Stormcaller has one Mastery level and one Might for 100 points.
Cirdan has one Mastery level, one Might, Epic Defence and Gift of Foresight for 75 points.
They have identical stats except Cirdan is 25 points cheaper *and* gets an Epic Action and a 6+ ward save.

Arwen has Fight 5, Resilience 1 and Epic Defense for 125 points.
Thranduil has Fight 7, Resilience 3 , Epic Strike and Epic Shot for 125 points.
They have identical stats and cost the same, except Arwen has less Fight, less Resilience and arguably worse Epic Actions.

In fact a lot of the heroes and legendary formations seem to have very arbitrary points costs, not just between armies (where it might make sense in the larger context) but between profiles right next to each other.


Oathsworn Militia and Bowmen have armour and Defence 3. Every other human unit with armour has Defence 4.

Knights of Dol Amroth have heavy armour and Defence 6. Every other human unit with heavy armour has Defence 5.

Galahdrim Knights have 4 Attacks. Every other company except for the weirdly sized hero collections has the same base number of attacks as their type.

Boromir and Lurtz's Mighty Blow rules are named the same and work almost the same, except one works on his hits and the other on his company's. Is that really intended?

The elven and dwarven heroes are misprinted as having Inspiring Hero and not Inspiring Leader.


Anyone have an idea what's up with all this?

Quannum
25-04-2009, 00:45
Short answer, no.

I know that Galadhrim Knights are supposed to have four attacks but not why.
The others are interesting and certainly worth FAQing.

Q

Nu Fenix
25-04-2009, 01:07
A Stormcaller has one Mastery level and one Might for 100 points.
Cirdan has one Mastery level, one Might, Epic Defence and Gift of Foresight for 75 points.
They have identical stats except Cirdan is 25 points cheaper *and* gets an Epic Action and a 6+ ward save.

Perhaps the designers felt that Command doesn't have the same value as Wilderness, and as such lowered the price of Cirdan?



Oathsworn Militia and Bowmen have armour and Defence 3. Every other human unit with armour has Defence 4.
There is another Human unit with armour and Defence 3 base which are Mahud Warband and Raiders. Yes they have shields, but so do Oathsword Militia.
It is also another Rohan unit, but Grimbold's Helmingas come with armour and Defence 3.



Knights of Dol Amroth have heavy armour and Defence 6. Every other human unit with heavy armour has Defence 5.
Blackroot Vale Archers wear heavy armour and yet are Defence 4.
Guards of the Fountain Court wear heavy armour and are also Defence 6.
Morgul Knights wear heavy armour and are also Defence 6.

Some units may just be naturally better, and as such their stats aren't in line with others. Others may be balanced that way.

Humans have heavy armour made of Mithril which makes them Defence 8, something not even the Elves have.

Edonil
25-04-2009, 01:11
As far as the differences in heroes go...I've wondered that myself. However, I would like to point out that War of the Ring is really a game intended to scale upwards- you can only have one Cirdan, so if you want more wizards in that range of points, you'll need to take a stormcaller. The Arwen and Thranduil thing bugged me too, I can't think of a way to justify that one.
Galadhrim Knights are just better? They are the most expensive basic cavalry unit in the game, perhaps the extra attacks are intended to make them more appealing for their points. As I've said before- I'm of the opinion that Boromir's Mighty Blow is more restricted in its use because he has 6 might points, compared to Lurtz's 4.
As far as the differences in armor go, you've pointed out two extremes in terms of capability background wise- the Oathsworn militia, and the Knights of Dol Amroth. Not all armor is the same- the Knights armor may be of superior quality, and the Oathsworn might be lesser quality. Also, keep in mind that Defence also rolls in the concept of a 'to hit' roll from WHFB and 40k- effectiveness of training might also play a part. That's about all I can think of...

stiggie
25-04-2009, 09:05
yeh some of the things dont really make sense point wise..

another example is misty mountains

a goblin shaman and dhurzag are the exact same points..

yeh dhurzag has one more fight 2 more resistance 1 more courage 2 more might 1 more mastery level, inspiring leader, epic cowardice can use an extra magic lore and can summon beasts..

lol pretty strange

The Laughing Man!
25-04-2009, 12:27
What about Court of the Dead King?

6 companies of warriors of the dead with full command are 120pts more than 6 companies of CotDK. In fact CotDK is only more expensive when compared to warriors of the dead if you take one company.

Galadhrim knights I hope for my own selfish reasons do have 4 attacks but it does seem a bit much and it also doesn't mesh with how casualties and attacks work. For example if a company of Galadhrim knights loses one knight you would still have 3 attacks from the other knight left alive.

General Veers
25-04-2009, 19:39
This post is mistitled these are not rules inconsistancies. They are what appear to be apparent point discrepancies.

I think GW is encouraging the use of Legendary and EPIC Heroes in this game. To people who used to play "CLAN WAR"* this makes sense. So Legendary Formations and EPIC Heroes being a better "deal" than normal formations works. The ones that have me scratching my head or the Epic Heroes that cost more but seem to be less useful than another. However, that could be to discourage certain combinations I (and apparently others) haven't figured out.

The Galadhrim Knight attacks; after using them a bit, I'm not sure I want them to have the extra attacks instead of an option for an extra point of Defense. I'd much rather have that for 50 points per company.

*Clan War was a great fantasy miniatures game, which War of the Ring feels VERY much like. Although WotR is much, much faster play. Same great feeling and faster play? We have a winner.

Nedorus
28-05-2009, 20:41
Just a small curiosity: The german translation of mighty blow has Lurzs and Boromirs mighty blows different as well... except that Boromirs works for his company while Lurzs works for his formation :evilgrin: just thought I'd mention it for all it's worth ...

Nedorus