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CaliforniaGamer
27-04-2009, 04:47
Can flamers of Tzeentch march and shoot? I cant find reference to this in the book but Im seeing it in games all the time.

sulla
27-04-2009, 04:56
Only fast cav and monsters using breath weapons can march and shoot/breathe.

rottahn
27-04-2009, 06:24
yeah i would assume that flamers cant march and use their "missle weapon"

havoc626
27-04-2009, 08:15
Hmm, strange, seems like some people are exploiting other people's stupidity. :p

Nothing in the rules state that they can march and shoot, so they can't.

rottahn
27-04-2009, 09:43
well i guess the question is do they have "missle weapons". the BRB specifically says they cant march and fire "missle weapons". since the flamers dont have any "equipment" im guessing people are arguing that their shooting attacks dont come from "missle weapons".

Chicago Slim
27-04-2009, 11:03
Oh, not again-- we've been down that semantic road before...

My own analysis of it was along the lines of this:
"Natural weapons", such as teeth and claws, are still weapons.
The natural weapons of FoT happen to fire missiles.
Therefore, Flamers of Tzeentch fire missile weapons (which, irrelevantly, happen to be natural weapons).

No march-and-shoot. Teach your local group, and move on.

theunwantedbeing
27-04-2009, 11:15
Skirmishers used to double pace rather than march.
Which allowed them to move at double speed and still shoot if they had ranged attacks.

Now they changed skirmishers to marching rather than moving at double pace so they cannot march and shoot without a rule saying otherwise.
Hence the confusion I think.

Old rules often causes issues.

EvC
27-04-2009, 13:58
Oh, not again-- we've been down that semantic road before...

My own analysis of it was along the lines of this:
"Natural weapons", such as teeth and claws, are still weapons.
The natural weapons of FoT happen to fire missiles.
Therefore, Flamers of Tzeentch fire missile weapons (which, irrelevantly, happen to be natural weapons).

No, it's much simpler than that. The Flamers' shooting attack is treated as a missile weapon in all ways (specifically, a thrown weapon), so they follow the normal rules for missile weapons. So no marching and shooting.

An attack made in the shooting phase such as a Banshee scream, Bloodcurdling Roar and perhaps even Salamander shooting does not use a weapon as defined in either the rulebook or army book (In the chapter entitled "weapons"), so are not weapons, although it is probably sensible to treat them as such anyway, semantics be damned.

Kalandros
27-04-2009, 19:44
Just correcting your correct answer, thrown weapons don't have penalties for moving and range, Flamers of Tzeentch have penalties for having moved and shooting at long range.

Reinnon
27-04-2009, 20:45
A flamer doesn't have thrown weapons, its just a normal missile attack now.

rottahn
28-04-2009, 01:21
No, it's much simpler than that. The Flamers' shooting attack is treated as a missile weapon in all ways (specifically, a thrown weapon), so they follow the normal rules for missile weapons. So no marching and shooting.

An attack made in the shooting phase such as a Banshee scream, Bloodcurdling Roar and perhaps even Salamander shooting does not use a weapon as defined in either the rulebook or army book (In the chapter entitled "weapons"), so are not weapons, although it is probably sensible to treat them as such anyway, semantics be damned.

where do you get this 'thrown weapon' business?

Zilverug
28-04-2009, 09:51
where do you get this 'thrown weapon' business?

The previous DoC list had thrown flames (with a much reduced range)

EvC
28-04-2009, 13:54
Ah yes, excuse the thrown weapon brainfart :D Their rules do call them missile weapons though, so no marching and shooting either way :)