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Dark_Ritualz
28-04-2009, 09:29
Hey everybody!

I recently began to think about an idea to make a full scale magic strong VC army, and even more recently i started working on it. I have been playing it for a couple of months now and it serves me pretty good.

But then we have this thing.
in just a month from now, I am gonna join in a tournament 1000pts and i thought of bringing this list into that tournament, so if you could judge the army and give me some help with it I would become very very grateful!

Thanks // Dark ritualz :chrome:

Oke i dont wanna bore u to death, here it is!


Hero:
Vampire 100
dark acolyte 30
Lord of the dead 15
Book of Arkhan 35
Sword of ... (differs between armys i fight) 15

Vampire 100
Dark acolyte 30
lord of the dead 15
Rod of Flaming death 40
Biting Blade 5

Vampire 100
Dark acolyte 30
lord of the dead 15
Helm of Commandment 30
Black periapt 15

Core Units:

15 skeletons /w FC 140

15 skeletons /w FC 140

15 skeletons /w FC 140

The main idea of the army is to be patient and w8 for the enemy to approach and ress as many skellies as possible.
when the enemy is close enough i through in a march+vanhels combo to get a charge and commandment on the fighing unit.
burst offensive magic upon the enemy as they approach, summ zombies on the flanks and rears + vanhels to win first round.

As mentioned any feedback would be nice to have since im taking it into a tourney =)

//Dark_Ritualz :chrome:

Nathangonmad
28-04-2009, 14:54
It'll do well unless you play a khorne beast army or a dwarf army :P

Dark14
28-04-2009, 16:50
use +2pd on all your vamps if you want magic heavy.

Nathangonmad
28-04-2009, 17:19
He ca't then because that uses all your vamp powers, I belive he is planing to bing those skele units above there starting strengh and upto a fighting number.

riotknight
28-04-2009, 18:47
Unfortunately, Skeletons aren't killy enough, even with Vamps in the unit. You need something that can hit hard. I recommend trying to fit a unit of 12-15 Grave Guard instead of a third unit of skeletons, Give them Banner of Barrows. HW/Shield is perfect since they all have killing blow. Also iif each vamp is going to be in a skeleton unit, i understand paying for champs, but One of them should be a BSB.

Also if its a tournament, i doubt you'll be allowed to switch which sword of Battle/Might you have, you'd have to decide before the tournament starts. I'd personally take Might for cheap S6 attacks.

Edit: I would not charge zombies into the flank/rear unless i had assuredly already WON the combat, Zombies die by the droves and usually end up being free CR for the enemy. Also, each unit you summon is worth 50VP, in small games like this, depending on how many you summon and if they die, it could cost you the game.

Dark_Ritualz
29-04-2009, 03:47
hmm, yea i think it would rly pay off switchin in a skellie unit for GG..
Thanks!:)

considering zombies, u say u wouldent unless u already won, but in my experience the zombies are usually the ones that make sure i win the combat, since the negate of ranks and flank/rear bonus.


Unfortunately, Skeletons aren't killy enough, even with Vamps in the unit. You need something that can hit hard. I recommend trying to fit a unit of 12-15 Grave Guard instead of a third unit of skeletons, Give them Banner of Barrows. HW/Shield is perfect since they all have killing blow. Also iif each vamp is going to be in a skeleton unit, i understand paying for champs, but One of them should be a BSB.

Also if its a tournament, i doubt you'll be allowed to switch which sword of Battle/Might you have, you'd have to decide before the tournament starts. I'd personally take Might for cheap S6 attacks.

Edit: I would not charge zombies into the flank/rear unless i had assuredly already WON the combat, Zombies die by the droves and usually end up being free CR for the enemy. Also, each unit you summon is worth 50VP, in small games like this, depending on how many you summon and if they die, it could cost you the game.

Dark_Ritualz
03-05-2009, 19:44
i made an update to the army that might be a little interesting any feedback is still nice ;)

Hero:
Vampire 100
dark acolyte 30
Lord of the dead 15
Book of Arkhan 35
Sword of might 15

Vampire 100
Dark acolyte 30
Summon Creatures of the night 15
Rod of Flaming death 40
Biting Blade 5
Hellstead 20

Vampire 100
Dark acolyte 30
lord of the dead 15
Helm of Commandment 30
Black periapt 15

Core Units:

15 skeletons /w FC 140

15 skeletons /w FC 140

Special Units:
6 Fell bats 120


oke, lets look at this then. the changes is to make a screen for the undead, a killy unit and a different approach for the vamp.

since the vamp is mounted on a hellstead he may join the fell bat unit. i switched the lord of the dead for summon creatures of the night since i discovered that the bats are infantry so u summ 1d6 W on ehm not 1w all the time. (check the back of the book to see it)
mounting the rod of flaming death vamp because then he will get a better chance of getting the rod in.

zeekill
04-05-2009, 02:16
Ok i tried almost that exact list before, just on a 750 point scale, and trust me, it will not work. I really want to help you because when i played with this list i was destroyed so badly i lost all hope, stopped VC immediately, and switched to DE for a month before taking on VC as a secondary army. This massacre of the dead happens because of 3 reasons:
1) The Skeletons are in no way, shape, or form fighting units. Nearly all the core choices in the VC army are filler units used to give you an advantage in numbers. You absolutely NEED some special and/or rare choices or your army will be torn to shreds.
2) Your vampires cost way too much, each is almost 200 points, the total being around 580 for all three. I love the maximum vampire idea, and support it, so instead of dropping one entirely I suggest dropping one item or power from each vampire or at least replace them with something cheaper.
3) You rely WAY too much on the hope that you will get the spells you need. The spell generation is random, and while you can nearly guarantee you will get at least one Gase of Nagash and/or Curse of Years most of the time at least one vamp will be wasted on a combination of something like Spells 1 and 5 or 1 and 6. The 'magic offense' will not work entirely to your advantage.

I suggest the following changes:

Hero:
Vampire 100 - I dropped lord of the dead, that is 15 points saved
dark acolyte 30
Book of Arkhan 35
Sword of ... 15

Vampire 100 - I dropped lord of the dead, that is 30 points saved
Dark acolyte 30
Rod of Flaming death 40 - I would consider dropping this, its too weak for the points cost
Biting Blade 5

Vampire 100 - I dropped lord of the dead, that is 45 points saved
Dark acolyte 30
Helm of Commandment 30 - Keep it no matter what when making changes
Black periapt 15

Core Units:

20 Zombies /w Music and SB 92 - This saves 93 points, also, The Newly Dead Rule: Zombies can be taken above starting wounds without a Vamp power and are healed D6+4, not just D6 with IoN

20 Zombies /w Music and SB 92 - This saves 141 points, also, The Newly Dead Rule: Zombies can be taken above starting wounds without a Vamp power and are healed D6+4, not just D6 with IoN

Saves 281 points after you drop the third Skellie unit. +40 if you dropped the Rod of Flaming Death, for 321 total.
__________________________________________________ ___________

Now With those Points you should take a combination of two units from this list:

Vargulf, 175

3 Fell Bats, 60*

10+ Grave Guard w/ FC, 150+

5+ Black Knights w/ FC and Banner of the Dead Legion (gives double unit strength) - 185

Or One from this list, though it is not recommended, you will be spread quite thin:

5 Cairn Wraiths w/ Tomb Banshee 275*

4 Blood Knights w/ Standard + Music and Banner of the Dead Legion 275

*If you take Fell Bats you also must give one of your vampires a Hellsteed (lets him fly so he can join the Fell Bats) and the Summon Creatures of the Night Vamp Power (lets him use IoN to increase fell bats past their starting strength) These add up to another 35 points, but are SOOOOOO worth it. With these, fly around to the side, then fly behind your enemy and keep raising fell bats, when your army is about to clash with the enemy, charge the bats in the rear of one of their units. With the rear charge, the bats, in a unit of around 10-20 by now, will most likely, if not definitely win combat. This also saves you 20 points per extra fell bat you would normally take, by the end of the game this adds up to 200+ points of savings in fell bats for just 35 points

*[/B]Remember these are Ethereal, they can only be hurt by magic or magic weapons and move through terrain without penalty (even impassible terrain!!). Also dont forget the banshee scream, it is short range but VERY effective, especially on things with high armor, low Ld. Examples are (sorry but I only own the VC, DE, and Orcs Army books, and DE units are high leadership): Orc Boar Boyz, Black Orcs, (not high armor save but Ld 6) Harpies, Everything that has high armor (but in small units) in skaven, if you end up fighting them all Tomb Kings and Vamp Counts undead units have VERY VERY low leadership, and so on.

riotknight
04-05-2009, 02:51
i made an update to the army that might be a little interesting any feedback is still nice ;)

Hero:
Vampire 100
dark acolyte 30
Lord of the dead 15
Book of Arkhan 35
Sword of might 15

Vampire 100
Dark acolyte 30
Summon Creatures of the night 15
Rod of Flaming death 40
Biting Blade 5
Hellstead 20

Vampire 100
Dark acolyte 30
lord of the dead 15
Helm of Commandment 30
Black periapt 15

Core Units:

15 skeletons /w FC 140

15 skeletons /w FC 140

Special Units:
6 Fell bats 120


oke, lets look at this then. the changes is to make a screen for the undead, a killy unit and a different approach for the vamp.

since the vamp is mounted on a hellstead he may join the fell bat unit. i switched the lord of the dead for summon creatures of the night since i discovered that the bats are infantry so u summ 1d6 W on ehm not 1w all the time. (check the back of the book to see it)
mounting the rod of flaming death vamp because then he will get a better chance of getting the rod in.

You're still missing a hammer. Nothing in your army will hit hard enough to break a unit on turn one. The skeletons will do great to hold the line, but if you get hit by say, Chaos Knights or Cold One Knights or hell even Dragon Princes. You won't be able to stand up to them unless your numbers are over 30, and then its a war of attrition situation where you'll win in 3-4 turns, probably. Bats are great for hunting War Machines, but As a combat unit themselves, not very useful, even with a Flying Vamp supporting them.

zeekill
04-05-2009, 03:19
You're still missing a hammer. Nothing in your army will hit hard enough to break a unit on turn one. The skeletons will do great to hold the line, but if you get hit by say, Chaos Knights or Cold One Knights or hell even Dragon Princes. You won't be able to stand up to them unless your numbers are over 30, and then its a war of attrition situation where you'll win in 3-4 turns, probably. Bats are great for hunting War Machines, but As a combat unit themselves, not very useful, even with a Flying Vamp supporting them.

However, they can be very good to the rear, remember that they only need to win combat and outnumber, and with the 40 mm bases they count as Unit Strength 3 per base, and 2 wounds on a base. So if you end up with around 10 bases thats a unit strength of around 30 - enough to outnumber anyone.

For combat res thats 2 for rear and 1 for outnumber. Add in a zombie unit to the front and you have enough attacks total to kill off enough to win combat. And even if you dont win combat your fell bats can sit there fighting till your enemies go blue in the face - they're summonable!

fall3nang3l
04-05-2009, 13:18
IMO even for a heavy magic army, 3 vamps in 1k is too much.
like zeekilll said, u have 580 pts on characters, with no armor at all at that.
i suggest you drop one of the vamps.
grave guard are also too expensive. maybe if u want a 10 or 15 man unit for one of your vampires its fine, but the real special ability is for vampires to have good wizards/combat characters and a horde of skeletons. because skeletons are really bad in combat. they are really only bullet sponges that can absorb charges. what i suggest is to take 2 vampires with dark acolyte. maybe give one or 2 lord of the dead (remember your 2 pool dice). now that gives you 6 power dice (7 with the black periapt, 15 points (worth it to me)) definately armor them. heres an example
vampire
dark acolyte, lord of the dead
flayed hauberk, sword of might

vampire DA, avatar of death
(some useful magic item, book of arkhan? rod of flaming death? hand of dust if your feelin balzy?)

the thing most players forget is that vampires make up all of the count's army strength. if u kill the vampires in a skeleton unit, it will fall. so if you find the one good player, it helps a lot to have the armor.

now on to the rest of your army. i personally take a vargulf in every game i play. movement, brute strength. its a good hammer unit when necessary.
with the rest of the points i take 5-10 dire wolves. excellent movement and they can keep up with the vargulf for good flanks/threatening units.
and skeletons, lots and lots of skeletons. the point of a magic heavy VC army is not to have skeletons cause 3 wounds on a charge, win resolution by X and hope they fail their morale check. the best way to play is to make them charge you, use the 2-3 turns beforehand to raise more skeletons. so by the time the orgres hit your battle line, you have 2 units of 35+ skeletons. sure they get their charge bonuses etc, they cannot wipe out 35 skeletons even with you crumbling. after u take the hit. restore wounds and use your 3 ranks and outnumber to break/autobreak / run them down. with this in mind, i suggest 2-3 units. either 2 20 man units (or as many as you can get in both with points) or 2 15 man and 1 10. the latter is sort of risky hoping that Invo casts most of the time. with that force you have an unstoppable wall of skeletons that can absorb whatever your enemy throws at you and still keeps coming.

Dark_Ritualz
04-05-2009, 13:53
Hmm...yea sure it might wok, it requires some playtesting though.
Thanks for the feedback! zeekill ut made a rly gr8 list that im gonna try out as fast as i Can! Thanks again!!!

zeekill
04-05-2009, 19:04
Hmm...yea sure it might wok, it requires some playtesting though.
Thanks for the feedback! zeekill ut made a rly gr8 list that im gonna try out as fast as i Can! Thanks again!!!

Happy to help. Im actually proud of myself i made a wonderful list, but at the same time gave alot of leeway unlike some people that are just "TAKE THIS ITS AWESOME" and thats it. I wish i could do that for a living it was actually fun :wtf:

riotknight
05-05-2009, 02:51
2 for rear 1 for outnumber + whatever ranks you have?

You'll be surprised how quickly the static combat res gets closed. Bats are skirmishers so can't negate ranks, so your opponent has potentially 3 ranks, standard for 4. You've got 3 Ranks, Standard, Outnumber Rear. If you wiff hard, you'll lose, or worse yet, if whatever you charge has ASF those bats will get hurt.

I know from experience, but playtest it and see how it fairs, maybe the dice gods like you better than me

Dark_Ritualz
05-05-2009, 10:27
oke, i made a playtest when i came home yesterday.

i played total of three battles, one against lizardmen one against ogres and one against dwarfs.

against lizzies i did massacre due to a fell bat regiment in the rear of saurus regiment and zombs in front. there was one saurus hero and one saurus bsb in it. the bats also took out a salmander regiment (with some luck on the dice). both zombie regiments got slaughtered and one vamp on foot got killed, the other wounded.
in the end of the battle only some skinks, saurus and a kroxigor lived. i had a half vamp and a unit of 8 fell bats and a hero.

against ogres he scored a marginal victory, fell bats dident work out the best against his units and the vamps where smashed by a hunter. he took down one zomb unit and the other where at like 3 models left. on the end i had taken out the ogre's, all gnoblars buyt both of hes heroes lived. and i had 2 fell bats and a vamp. ouch.

the third battle against dwarves was interesting. he had a cannon list.... the battle worked out gr8 for me untill a cannon managed to struck my general in the fell bat regiment. i FAILED the look out sire.... my army succumbed and the dwarves won massacre since i had no units left at round 4...

after the battles i changed my list around a little. i made two nasty armies that could be fun, i dont think they would do gr8 though.

list 1
vamp 1 100
ethereal 50

vamp 2 100
ethereal 50

20 zombies 80

20 zombies 80

10 carin wraiths 500
banshee 25

this list could be the doom of all armies. deamon would wipe the floor with it though. unless a lot of magic it could be rly nasty. i might try it one day and become "the Hated one"

the other army i made was this

u saved a lot of points on the heroes. i made them more OVERPOWERed than before.

The Bat Handlers

Vampire 100
dark acolyte 30
summon creatures of the night 15
Helm of commandment 30
black periapt 15
hellstead 20 (fell bat)

Vampire 100
dark acolyte 30
summon creatures of the night 15
book of arkhan 35
Sword of might 15
Hellstead 20 (fell bat)

Vampire 100
dark acolyte 30
summon creatures of the night 15
rod of flaming death 40
The balefire spike 10
hellstead 20 (fell bat)

core:
20 zombies 80
/w fc 12

20 zombies 80
/w standard 8

Special units:

3 fell bats 60

3 fell bats 60

3 fell bats 60

might workd funny to =) feedback on these lists would be nice =)
and zeekil u realy should be proud over ure self, it worked gr8! but i had bad luck against dwarves....

PeeKay
05-05-2009, 14:50
Just reading through and had a thought (new to VC)

Is a corpes cart with neco considered a hammer unit? Or is it vulnerable.

If it is a hammer unit then it will give you magic for raising core units and flank charge when the core unit is engaged. This would replace a vampire

riotknight
05-05-2009, 23:58
Necromancers are wizards, terrible casters. and the cart is at best an anvil.

Dark_Ritualz
08-05-2009, 17:55
okey.... dudes. my life is in ruin. the tournament is next saturday and when i just read some rules i realized this:

Fell bats. a flying unit. flying units may not be joined by characters. !!! omg i hate it !!!
fell bats. a flying unit. all flying units in game has unit strenght 1 unless otherwise stated.



this pretty much destroys my list wich sucks ---> im back to square one. need help with my list....

Dungeon_Lawyer
08-05-2009, 19:36
since the vamp is mounted on a hellstead he may join the fell bat unit. .
"Characters can never join units of flyers, even if yhey ride flying creatures or are capable of flight themselves."

pG 69-mini-rulebook, flyers, unit of flyers.

I quite like your 1st list for 1,000 and think it is servicable, Its got all the things you need:helm & arkan. Finding the points for a unit of GG that can be placed infront of the bunkered lord/w helm would be the best, (I would prefer the lord have the helm ) simplist way to optimize it for a 1,000 pnt tounry. Maybe drop one vamp and a unit of skellies and shave the other two skellie unit down from 15 to 10? (You'll have 20 more skeillies "in reserve" to raise with IoN spam) Just concentrate on raising skellies for your first two magic phases. The trick is you got to get your opponites to loose combat-Give one of the skellies the banner which doubles their unit strengh and watch a lot of units they square off against auto-break from losing combat to a fear-causing unit which outnumbers them. You dont see it much, but I also like spears on skellies. The one or two extra wounds that a 2nd rank of attacks can get you can be critical in winning combats. A Vargulf would be good too if you can find the points, they are pretty cheap and what they offer is what you need: a solid, quick, flanking unit to gain +1 or +2 combat res with. Use in conjunctgion with the skellies/outnumber banner.

I would eschew buying zombies, just raise them, but be careful how you use them as you wont want to throw away points. You'll do fine im sure.

Rod of Flaming death imo is highly effective. At a 1,000 tourny a bound spell magic missle requiring no power dice to get off and causing panic it if wounds is great imo.

What is not to like about basically, a lizardmen Salamander in a stick for 40 pnts??

Dark_Ritualz
10-05-2009, 13:49
thanks =) ill try it out.

riotknight
10-05-2009, 17:28
I like Rod of Flaming Death, I usually give it to a Wight King.

I would look at maybe replacing one of the vamps with the Wight, 75pts. 3 wounds, t5 with KB? Not bad at all, maybe even give him Hand of Dust

CrimsonLord
10-05-2009, 21:04
Corpse carts only seem to protect my necromancers a little more, but 2d6 S2 attacks are very weak if you're on the defensive. If you're not using a necromancer I wouldn't use the cart at all, it is only good to support other units. I play against orcs and usually by the fourth round it's been destroyed.

Dungeon_Lawyer
12-05-2009, 16:55
i woulndt mess with a corpse cart in a 1000 point tourney

Dark_Ritualz
14-05-2009, 06:42
Hero:
Vampire 100
dark acolyte 30
Lord of the dead 15
Book of Arkhan 35
Sword of might 15

Wight king 75
BSB 25
hand of dust 50

Vampire 100
Dark acolyte 30
lord of the dead 15
Helm of Commandment 30
Black periapt 15

Core Units:

15 skeletons /w FC 140

15 skeletons /w FC 140

15 skeletons /w FC 140

5 dire wolfs 40

made this up from the core army. gonna try it out when i have the chance... tourney in 2 days, ill post some battlereports when i come back home.

Dark_Ritualz
18-05-2009, 09:47
well, the tournament went neither bad or 2 good. i placed 6 out of 24, so above average. the battle reports will have to w8 untill later. im in a bit of a hurry atm ;)

FictionalCharacter
18-05-2009, 15:55
i woulndt mess with a corpse cart in a 1000 point tourney

seconded.

you could get 10 skeletons and full command for the 100 points for a corpse cart with an option. or you could add a sizable unit of direwolves, further overload on characters, find another 20 points and take 5 black knights, etc. etc.

i took a corpse cart with lodestone in my 1250 game last weekend, but only because i didn't have enough skeleton models to field a third block (now remedied). it more than made the 25 points back for the lodestone in terms of extra raised skeletons, but otherwise it was a 75 point piece of cannon fodder that couldn't tarpit 5 DoW horse archers for more than one turn just for the purpose of drawing out dispel dice. i actually made my opponent burn a dispel scroll on miasma in turn 5, but i had lost by then anyway. at 1000 points, you'll be much better served fielding another block of skeletons.