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View Full Version : How do you clear defensible terrain?



Angelust
29-04-2009, 08:46
I played a game today, Misty Mountains vs. Gondor.

In the game, the opponent got defense 7 minas tirith warriors into a +3 wooden fort, and 3 minas tirith archers into a +3 ruins.

This made their defenses like 10 and 7 respectively, and I couldn't do any damage to them with shooting or charges. I had some magic available, but it wouldn't really dislodge 3 companies unless I left myself open to shooting and charges to do it.

What do you do when they garrison a terrain feature like that? I don't like leaving them alone, because I'm afraid they'll pop out next round and charge my @r$e.

Any ideas?

Jorgen_CAB
29-04-2009, 10:40
One idea is to claim them first. You should perhaps have a few small formations, such as scouts/archers with a captain to quickly claim them before you opponent does.

Ambushers are one way, though they pop up during the second turn so that might be too late.

Artillery are one other thing, they get bonuses when they fire at static defenses such as buildings. I suppose a ruin counts as a building, I'm not sure on that though.

Nu Fenix
29-04-2009, 12:30
As you are Evil, then I would say it is easier to get them out then for Good to remove you.

Here are some ideas to try out, in addition to Jorgen's.

The Infestation Fate can help mitigate one of them, by lowering the capacity and defense bonus by 1.

Charge them with a Monster. Since only one company can fight you, as long as you cause a single casualty and don't die in the process, you win the fight. Under step 5 on p55 of "Charging a Defensible Terrain Feature", unless they are Steadfast after their Panic test, they must withdraw from the terrain. If they cannot, because you surrounded them with Goblins/Spiders/etc, then they are destroyed and removed from play.

You could use a Battering Ram from Mordor or Isengard, as they are a Monster which denies the Defence bonus for being in a building or ruin. For only 10 points more, the Isengard one seems much better, as it is more likely to survive and cause a casualty.

Jorgen_CAB
29-04-2009, 12:56
Charge them with a Monster. Since only one company can fight you, as long as you cause a single casualty and don't die in the process, you win the fight. Under step 5 on p55 of "Charging a Defensible Terrain Feature", unless they are Steadfast after their Panic test, they must withdraw from the terrain. If they cannot, because you surrounded them with Goblins/Spiders/etc, then they are destroyed and removed from play.

I'm not actually sure that is the case. The wording of charging a monster is that only one base (company) can be in contact with the monster at any time. Companies inside a defensible terrain do not fight like that (and carry no bases), they are scattered around and so half of them (rounded up) gets to fight. No matter how they are assaulted or by how many opponents, be it a monster or several formations of troops half of them gets to fight directly.

Nu Fenix
29-04-2009, 13:17
But why would more models be able to fight because they are suddenly in trees/ruins/etc compared to the open?

There is still a limited size to the monster for it to be attacked, so why would the defences trump the rule that only one formation gets full attacks and the rest are supporting only?

Master Stark
29-04-2009, 14:17
Not likely to matter anyway. So long as you cause at least one casualty and don't die in the process, you win the combat. And unless you agree that the defensive feature can hold three or more companies, it will still only be one company attacking in return.

Sounds like a good reason to include a troll or two, or even a dragon in the force!

Jorgen_CAB
29-04-2009, 14:46
But why would more models be able to fight because they are suddenly in trees/ruins/etc compared to the open?

There is still a limited size to the monster for it to be attacked, so why would the defences trump the rule that only one formation gets full attacks and the rest are supporting only?

I didn't say that it had to be logical... ;)

But in all respect, when the monster enter the woods the enemy is all around it and can attack from everywhere, it is more like skirmish fighting than anything else. Not in rank and file where you can't surround it.
You can have up to three companies fighting a monster otherwise, it just have to be from three different formations.
I think the logic can go both ways here.

Anyway, one casualty caused from a Troll is enough to root out anyone anyway (which is kind of lame rules wise) so I really don't think that it matters much anyway.

Guardian of the Rage
29-04-2009, 15:57
I have used that with Gondor warriors, and it is indeed had to root them out. I think that this is what they included the battering rams (mordor and isenguard) for. The defending formations lose all defensive bonuses (provided they are ruin/building based) from terrain.

Jorgen and Nu fenix's idea are also good ways of tackling this issue.

I hope that is of some help.

regards,
GotR

Reinholt
29-04-2009, 18:30
Usually, what I do is put my arm flat on the table.

Then, I stare directly at my opponent while moving it in a broad, sweeping motion, knocking all of their models and the terrain onto the floor while maintaining eye contact with them.

If I want to be particularly emphatic, I then step on them.

:p

Ahem. All joking aside, the Wilderness lore has some great options for clearing terrain...

Axis
30-04-2009, 07:45
Spirits work quite well if you want to kill things with high defence. Monsters can work though you will cop a lot of attacks back.

Other things to do is to try and claim it first or use a battering ram (but i can't see this being worth it). I've never used artillery (gogo elves) but in theory it should do ok most pieces of artillery have the strength that your bows lack.

A final option is to ignore them if they aren't going to do much damage but as you mentioned this is not desirable.

p.s. as Reinholt mentioned Wilderness is a great option if you have it. Personally i think it is the best lore (certainly my favourite) of them all but that discussion is for another thread.

fracas
06-05-2009, 23:09
ghostly legion