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Malorian
29-04-2009, 14:36
Well I'm faced with a problem...

I work in Fort McMurray but my family is 450 km in Edmonton and I only see them on the weekends (using vacation to make most of them 3 day weekends), so when I'm in town I really want to spend time with the family.

The issue is my hobby. In Edmonton there are two great clubs I go to and have great games, and in Fort McMurray there is only one club with stupid house rules and only a few players (which I dropped out of a few months ago).


So here is the question: would you join a gaming group even though it's a bad one? Or would you take a hit and get fewer games (1 game a month rather than 1 a week) to be in a better club?

selone
29-04-2009, 14:56
I can't see why you'd stick with a group where the games were irksome.

Sons of Alaitoc v.2
29-04-2009, 14:58
How 'bad' is said club?

Bac5665
29-04-2009, 15:02
Why can't you play in both? Play with the bad club when you feel that a game is worth the stupidity, and then play with your old mates when you get the chance.

rtunian
29-04-2009, 15:07
he dropped out because they were tailoring the houe rules to be anti-malorian. if you think enough time has passed, and they miss your company in the group, i'd give them another chance, but under provision that they play fairly. i wouldn't break up with the good groups though. sure you might not play as often, but if the old guys are up to their old tricks, you will have serious buyers remorse.

another possibility is to try an expansion of the bad club, try to get some new blood in there?

W0lf
29-04-2009, 15:21
Depends entirely on just how bad the club is tbh.

Obviously play at the good one still, i wouldnt really know as im good mates with most my gaming group. If i could only play with the older vets at the club id probably end up playing 2-3 games a month (rather then per week) due to bordom and no one wanting to play me (quite frankly they all suck and call anything cheese when they lose because they cant play).

I can see from vrious sig records/bat reps and the above post that maybe you annoyed them by being so much better then them. Maybe tonning down a few lists and losing sometimes might help? :P

P.S the polls kinda stupid as you can do 2 aswell as 1. The question is wether or not to do option 1... they arnt mutually exclusive.

Rolo Ramone
29-04-2009, 15:23
Make your own group in Fort McMurray. If that club is that bad like you are saying, itīs not gonna be a problem found other members.

Crazydu
29-04-2009, 15:48
Assuming you play for fun, you need to play with the people who you have the most fun with - so I voted good group and less games, as I assume the bad group is no fun :-(

Are any of the family interested in coming along to watch games when you are home?

AngryAngel
29-04-2009, 16:15
If the bad group was tailoring just for you. F them my friend, I'd take a once in a blue moon game with friends, then gaming all the time with A holes. Just my thoughts on it.

Kayin
29-04-2009, 16:32
I would strongly recommend only playing games that are fun for you. I have found that it is really hard to stay motivated for anything hobby related if I am playing crappy games all of the time. It is why I started my own gaming club, oddly enough in Edmonton. If you are in Edmonton on the weekends with a few clubs that you like going to then keep that up, but I would also suggest finding at least one or two guys up in Fort Mac that are decent enough to play against and ask them to play games outside the club. I would recommend the newer gamers hands down, they are often the most impressionable as to how the game is meant to be played, and if you can demonstrate that playing like a douche is not the intent of the games, then they will hopefully get on the right track.

IcedCrow
29-04-2009, 16:35
My friend...

I played in a group that was my antithesis. They were all WAAC hardcore tournament gamers. I am a campaign play for fun and story and painting and hanging out player.

I did that for many years. And it burnt me out where I quit altogether.

Don't do that.

Find a group that you enjoy. It's a social game. You should be friends with these people.

Malorian
29-04-2009, 16:49
It's very true that I could do both, but it would be hard to justify to the wife. She used to be interested but the idea that she would come down (even to a tournament) isn't going to happen.

I used to run a club in Fort McMurray myself but had to stop when the building closed down. I try and play with a few of the good players still but with my house now gone (I now live in 1 small rented room), and since they don't have the tables/terrain/room to run games at their places, the only spot to play would be at the 'bad' club. (At elast the bad club has several tables and a lot of terrain.)

And just for clairification the worst thing at the bad club is the house rules. I can handle people making lists and setting up terrain to beat me, but when you make house rules that break away from the actual rules (the worst being dedicated transports don't count for KP and you allow for an extra half inch on charges) that real irks me.

It also doesn't help that the person that runs the bad club (fellow power gamer) has called me a jerk/prick/*beep*...


I think I have to agree with the poll that it's best to just stay away from that club and simply savour my gaming in Edmonton when I can.

Keller
29-04-2009, 16:50
Only play if you enjoy the games. Simple enough. Theres little point in playing just for the sake of playing, if you are not having a good time doing so.

Ubermensch Commander
29-04-2009, 17:00
If it isnt "fun" its not serving its purpose. Its a game. If the game ceases to be fun, either take steps to fix the problem or get out.
If you do not enjoy the gaming group or atmosphere, GTFO. Let them play their way, you can go play your way. Or you COULD open up a dialogue with the group and discuss playing without house rulings or changing said house rulings.

Sir_Lunchalot
29-04-2009, 18:17
Tough decision. On one hand, the local club is full of jerks, on the other hand, the other club is in Edmonton. I'd probably play fewer games at the better club, even if it is in Western Canada's Hellhole*. Name calling is infantile, and unless it's clearly a joke (like the trash talking in my Club in Calgary) is simply unacceptable behavior for adults.

*I'm from Calgary. I have to trash talk Edmonton! I don't really think it's a hellhole, it's just cold, and the people are mean, and violent, and it's poorer than Calgary.

Urgat
29-04-2009, 18:27
My opinion? I play to have fun. If playing is no fun, no point in playing.

Feefait
29-04-2009, 18:28
heres how i look at it: no club means no gaming at all, while a bad club will make you WISH you were'nt gaming sometimes. I'd rather have the no games and wanting to play then to feel it an obligation. now in your case, you still have the option of playing somehwere else, even if more infrequent.
personally we have a small group, 4 guys. i've tried going to different leagues and clubs and what not and found i never enjoyed the games as much, so even if i was playing i was unsatisfied. i'd rathe rplay my friends once a month (sometimes less) and make those games really count then just grind out games for the sake of playing.

is there any chance of evolving the club you don't like to include some of your input? i was in a DnD group a few years ago I HATED. I ended up not playing for a couple years while i put together a group I know we'd all enjoy because there was no changing or altering that group. now that we are playing again i like the game again and look forward to playing.

rtunian
29-04-2009, 18:28
if all else fails, your kid will be old enough in a few years :D

Yarick Zan
29-04-2009, 18:34
[QUOTE=Malorian;3523814] It also doesn't help that the person that runs the bad club (fellow power gamer) has called me a jerk/prick/*beep*... [QUOTE]


Don't go there. After reading that you shouldn't bother with that kind of crap. Adults don't treat each other that way over toys.

Sir_Lunchalot
29-04-2009, 18:37
I've only been to Edmonton a couple times. I brought the Tau army to Fracas. Seriously, what's with all the marine players there? I mean there's lots of marine armies everywhere but in my six games at Fracas I fought Space Marines, Black Templars, Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Space Marines, and Chaos Space Marines. You've probably seen a bunch of my group at tournaments.

And as for redneck cowboys, that'd be everything in between our cities.

Malorian
29-04-2009, 18:49
(I deleted my last post cause I thought the mod had deleted yours when I refreshed and didn't see it.)

Did you see that massive marine army at the back? That was a Fort McMurray guy. He's actually a great guy but he only plays 40k and VERY rarely. (Those games at Fracas make up most of the games he has played.)

You might have faced my brother (Seniorcardgage). He played chaos and had a deamon prince (Belial), oblits, raptors... and I can't remember what else...


Is 'Scott' on this forum one of your buddies? (Played nurgle DoC fantasy)


Edit: Just realizedI'm thread jacking my own thread... umm... *think of something*... (I guess as far as this thread goes I got my answer...)

Sir_Lunchalot
30-04-2009, 01:24
MASSIVE marien army... was that the entire chapter of Ultramarines? beat him second game on day 2. And none of my friends have been on Warseer in years. but that nurgle guy did plya my buddy Anthony, who won best general. and b*%$#ed about not getting best overall for the entire 3 hour drive home.

PARTYCHICORITA
30-04-2009, 01:49
well the usual game takes around 1 and a half, 2 hours? personally i am not gonna have fun playing some jerk for a couple of hours and whats the point in playing something if you are not having fun.

Nicha11
30-04-2009, 02:45
Adults don't treat each other that way over toys.

Brilliant:D

Malorian, ditch these fools. If they not only tailor the rules to beat you but insult you then they deserve:

Non of your time, money or friendship.
At the end of the day warhammer is a game with models, theres no reason to play unless it's fun.

Finnigan2004
30-04-2009, 03:20
There's little reason to play warhammer, other than the enjoyment of it. Simply ask yourself if playing with the "bad group" is enjoyable to answer your own question without the need for a poll.

Kayin
30-04-2009, 05:29
In defense of Edmonton I went down to the Calgary conlict a few years back with an all grot army and played marines for 5 out of 6 games, Cow Town has alot of marine players too!

To not be completely hacking this thread, If you are big on playing games to have fun, you should contact me at outofthebasementgaming@hotmail.com as we play every second sunday from noon until about six. I am not sure what your to and from looks like, but if you have a few hours every second sunday it may be an ideal situation for you to get in some games. If nothing else, try and come down to our tourney, it should be alot of fun, and at half the cost of Fracas. use the same email address to get more info.

Cheers man, I hope your gaming gets more enjoyable.

Tarax
30-04-2009, 08:27
I try and play with a few of the good players still but with my house now gone (I now live in 1 small rented room), and since they don't have the tables/terrain/room to run games at their places, the only spot to play would be at the 'bad' club. (At elast the bad club has several tables and a lot of terrain.)


Maybe I've got this wrong, but do you have to join any of those clubs?
Because from what I read you can just go with your friends (who play nicely) to the 'bad' club and play by yourselves. You don't have to play any of the 'bad' players, do you?
Be a grown-up (as you are) and let any comments slide by.

As for me, I would go where I have the best games. If that means I play less, then I just have extra time to paint.

danny7865
30-04-2009, 09:29
Mal just remember it is quality time not quantity of time. I agree with Tarax, if these people are so passionate about beating you they must have serious issues. Go with the good players , and make up scenario's or swap armies if you fancy a change.

I'm lucky in that I've found a really good club which tinkers with special scenarios to make sure everyone gets a game. I would just laugh at people who take the game too seriously and feel the need to insult you. After all it means you must be doing something right!!!!

Just make sure you are happy playing the game.As even GW call it the most important rule .......

mind you I'll miss reading your reports ........

The Red Scourge
30-04-2009, 15:17
I used to run a club in Fort McMurray myself but had to stop when the building closed down. I try and play with a few of the good players still but with my house now gone (I now live in 1 small rented room), and since they don't have the tables/terrain/room to run games at their places, the only spot to play would be at the 'bad' club. (At elast the bad club has several tables and a lot of terrain.).

Now if you read this through once again, you have the answer to your question.

Solution: Bring good people to play at bad club :)

Malorian
30-04-2009, 15:19
Would be nice but they don't go for a reason...

Bingo the Fun Monkey
30-04-2009, 18:07
These good and bad gaming clubs are a novelty to me. I thought there were just gamers...maybe the occasional freak who takes things too seriously...but whole groups!?

IcedCrow
30-04-2009, 18:30
I used to walk through the store and people would have laser range finders, laser pointers, little tools to measure the exact nanometer to argue you were out of range / line of sight.

People taking this way too seriously seem to overshadow those playing to have fun.

WarlockOMork
30-04-2009, 22:40
Play where ever you have most fun, Better a Few games you actualy have fun in, then many that are only (or even worse, Below) avarage.

Tho i do agree with the concept of just making your bad group, a good group with some nudging, prodding, and new blood finding.
Would solve a lot of those problems.

Ertle
01-05-2009, 00:56
Mal just remember it is quality time not quantity of time. I agree with Tarax, if these people are so passionate about beating you they must have serious issues. Go with the good players , and make up scenario's or swap armies if you fancy a change.

I'm lucky in that I've found a really good club which tinkers with special scenarios to make sure everyone gets a game. I would just laugh at people who take the game too seriously and feel the need to insult you. After all it means you must be doing something right!!!!

Just make sure you are happy playing the game.As even GW call it the most important rule .......

mind you I'll miss reading your reports ........

Ah my friend Quantity has a quality all its own. But yeah definitely hit up the good club. Also don't know if y'all got a community center anywhere near by but you might be able to play in one of those with some friends and generate interest in some bystanders to get a group going.

O&G'sRule
01-05-2009, 13:00
Use good, but when you feel a game is too far away use bad too

Malorian
01-05-2009, 13:13
The bad group is run at of one guy's house. The main players are him, his girl friend, and the two renters. There are other players that some times come but the better ones (like the TK guy) tends to stay away.

Since the guy running it is forcing the house rules it really doesn't matter who I try in get in there. There still will be the house rules which he'll force with an iron fist (he even made everyone sign the list of house rules...).

W0lf
01-05-2009, 13:15
ok...

if anyone asked me to sign house rules id simply leave. Thats the most ridiculous thing ever, the whole point of house rules are that they are mutually consented.

Cant you have 'the tomb king guy' over your house to play or something? :P

Malorian
01-05-2009, 13:18
ok...

if anyone asked me to sign house rules id simply leave. Thats the most ridiculous thing ever, the whole point of house rules are that they are mutually consented.

Cant you have 'the tomb king guy' over your house to play or something? :P

That's exactly what I did. Read over the house rules, packed up my stuff and left.

But not my family has moved back to Edmonton and I'm living in a small rented room. So the only people with tables and terrain is the bad group...

So that's why the question is do you go back to the bad group to actually get in games? Or do you stick to your code and have maybe one game a month at a good group in Edmonton?

W0lf
01-05-2009, 13:25
In that case it sounds like you have to wait which is kinda lame.

I guess you kinda burnt your bridges with the other group. Hmm not much i can suggest then, though seems a shame as your bat reps are fantastic and you seemingly have lots of armies to use :)

sephiroth87
01-05-2009, 18:13
The trick is to start a gaming group closer to where you are. You need two players to do it. I'd find the tomb kings guy and talk to him. The reason I know this is that one of my friends did it before. We have 25 regular fantasy players where we are in my area (not a place known for wargaming) and started off with one.

Basically, you're looking at finding a regular opponent, and both of you talking up the game to people you know. If you can play in a game store (even one that doesn't sell warhammer), you've got a leg up. Don't have it your house unless you want people to think it's exclusive (and new players won't find out about it).

You're very blessed in that you have multiple armies, so you can just loan one out to someone wanting to play. I do the same thing all the time. My models aren't the newest or the best painted, but they look pretty good from two feet and they're all pretty balanced. I always offer to let someone borrow any of my armies that they're interested in and bring it every time they want to play. I let them use it until they want to borrow another army or they decide to start one of their own. It almost never fails that the person, once playing with me or my local gaming group, buys into the hobby. The trick is to learn how to make games fun for any new players, so much fun that they NEED this hobby. Every person has usually played someone like that in their life, and it's my job (and yours, now) to be an ambassador of the game that you love, so that you can have good players and get more opponents.

And it's not just about losing games. Against new players, I do hold back a lot from beating their brains in, preferring to let them have a learning curve so that they can build confidence and enjoy closer competition. But rather than that, it's mostly about learning how to enjoy the game and teach why I would rather spend an entire sunday moving around plastic models than going out to the movies.

With that said, I'm pretty over the top about my armies and it scares the daylights out of people when they first start playing with me. I cheer, waaagh, groan, and show emotion to opponents (because I'm naturally like that), but I always remember to tell them that they did a great job or had a good tactical plan DURING the game when they do something well.

Not the most helpful post, but it's what we had to do to get a group going.

mrtn
02-05-2009, 07:57
Do you have room for a smaller game in your apartment, Skirmish or Mordheim or something?

Condottiere
02-05-2009, 08:16
When you have to sign anything, it's time to consider if it is worth it. We know that in Warhammer there has to be give and take, and you are not involved in a tournament.

Feefait
05-05-2009, 19:48
I used to walk through the store and people would have laser range finders, laser pointers, little tools to measure the exact nanometer to argue you were out of range / line of sight.

People taking this way too seriously seem to overshadow those playing to have fun.

actually our group uses a laser pointer and level to determine LoS, charge arcs and what not when in dispute. I would hardly consider it taking things way to seriously. it just stops any arguments, we know it;s there and can always call it out when we dispute something. i think it's a sign of a good group that these things are available and used. i can understand your feeling that it is taking it all a bit too far, but it just speeds up the game and makes it smoother. all the tools you can use that help i say use it.

123DeMaere
06-05-2009, 20:45
Woah buddy.... WOAH. If it means that much to you, we can play here.

I think your being really hard though. All the "house rules" are DT are not kill points, If a charge is close just say it's in, and the Rules from Bell Of Lost Souls( seriously, it's KP, Charges then copy and pasted from BoLS) . I don't find that they tailor anything against you. I think they just enjoy it more when you lose.

As for the "name-calling", you only get insulted when you desevre it... I don't normally call you names. But remember when we had our first apocalyspe game? When I hadn't read the codex yet, you flank marched 300+ orcs, a stompa, a hellhammer, and a skullhammer back when I didn't know what flank marching was and had to mix 3 armies together to get 5000 points?.... Remember what I called you for awhile? You'll even admit it too... You have your moments.

But If it means that much to you we can just have the games here. As for what you'll do when the Tomb King player, myself and pretty much all the fun player in Fort McMurray all move this summer (we are all going to school in Edmonton)... I think you'd do better to Schedule Games in Edmonton and make the most of your weekends... You just don't get along with/Enjoy playing the other gamers.

Malorian
06-05-2009, 20:51
As for the "name-calling", you only get insulted when you desevre it... I don't normally call you names. But remember when we had our first apocalyspe game? When I hadn't read the codex yet, you flank marched 300+ orcs, a stompa, a hellhammer, and a skullhammer back when I didn't know what flank marching was and had to mix 3 armies together to get 5000 points?.... Remember what I called you for awhile? You'll even admit it too... You have your moments.

But If it means that much to you we can just have the games here. As for what you'll do when the Tomb King player, myself and pretty much all the fun player in Fort McMurray all move this summer (we are all going to school in Edmonton)... I think you'd do better to Schedule Games in Edmonton and make the most of your weekends... You just don't get along with/Enjoy playing the other gamers.

Everybody has to learn about the dangers of flank march some time ;) And that was name calling with a smile. The insulting I was talking about was worlds apart from that.

And there are more house rules than just that.

(For those that don't know that was the local empire player... one of the good ones ;))

Acheron143
14-05-2009, 04:34
I wish I had a bad gaming group malorian but I see where your coming from it'd be very... negative to put up with that week in week out.

I'm looking forward to my once a year trip down south to maybe get in some 40k and FB for the first time in a long time.

Kill-Freedom
14-05-2009, 05:32
House rules arent real rules!!!!!!!!!!!

Gorbad Ironclaw
14-05-2009, 05:40
IMO the game is only as good as the people you play with. If the people annoys you or you don't enjoy the games there, don't bother. It's just going to burn you out in the long run and make you want to play less.

Lordmonkey
14-05-2009, 06:32
Sounds pathetic to me - how old are these people? 0_o

Screw the bad club, you could do more with your time painting :)

orkz222
14-05-2009, 11:32
(the worst being dedicated transports don't count for KP and you allow for an extra half inch on charges)
It also doesn't help that the person that runs the bad club (fellow power gamer) has called me a jerk/prick/*beep*...



lol... wtf allow half inch... half inch is quite alot.


There still will be the house rules which he'll force with an iron fist (he even made everyone sign the list of house rules...).

sign agreement lol... madness :wtf:

osloco
14-05-2009, 19:24
I agree. Screw the bad club. Is there anyone else the club might have chased off as well? Maybe there are some decent people in town who have been angered at people being nitwits too. Try a craigslist ad or something.


Sounds pathetic to me - how old are these people? 0_o

Screw the bad club, you could do more with your time painting :)

Erloas
14-05-2009, 20:59
It sounds like the biggest problem with where you are at now is that you have to play at someone's house and you don't really like that person.

I really have no idea what the cities you live around are like, but most cities have public buildings that can be used for all sorts of activities.
Where I live we can play in 3 different libraries in two different towns. We also have the option to play at the local community college much of the time. The tables aren't perfect, but they work and we bring all our own terrain in, but that wasn't an issue once everyone had a few things to bring.

We can't get any particular library any time we want, but we can schedule the activity rooms just like everyone else, the old ladies that sew, the LAN gamers, the boy scouts and girl scouts and several other local groups that use public places for meetings.

Once you find a place to play, especially at a public place where no one can push their individual agenda, then you can more easily find and retain more like-minded players.

artyboy
14-05-2009, 23:32
Quality > Quantity. If you're itching for a game and you can't make it down to the good group then nothing is stopping you from dropping in on the bad group unless they just insist that you show up all the time. Less time to play makes more time for painting and modeling, anyway :).

Dexter099
15-05-2009, 00:10
I say good club. And lookee here, most people agree that you should be making your hobby time quality time.