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Lorquas
29-04-2009, 15:06
Hi

Can you use a Compulsory move (say witha a Spawn) to "clip" a unit or should you always aim to engage as many models as possible?

Can you aim a Compulsory move at the flank of a unit even though your model is currently in their frontal zone and facing them?

Cheers

Lorquas

Harwammer
29-04-2009, 15:15
1. You just align where you hit (unless you play sliding)

2. no, this results in a failed charge as you started in the wrong arc. You stop 1" away (FAQ 2).

theunwantedbeing
29-04-2009, 15:15
When you hit an enemy through a compulsary move it counts as a charge so you must endeavour to bring as many models into base contact on both sides as possible.

EvC
29-04-2009, 15:31
You treat a compulsory charge as normal charge. So if you start out in the front and aim a spawn or whatever for the flank, and roll enough to contact, then you actually move the model as if it was declaring a normal charge, so you hit the front, and you maximise.

Tae
29-04-2009, 17:45
Not to get other people to do my dirty work for me, but can someone provide a page number for confirming that compulsory movers can't charge the side of a unit if they began their movement in the front arc?

I ask because someone locally insists he can get his squig hoppers to charge the flank even though he is in the front arc.

Harwammer
29-04-2009, 17:47
You treat a compulsory charge as normal charge. So if you start out in the front and aim a spawn or whatever for the flank, and roll enough to contact, then you actually move the model as if it was declaring a normal charge
Hmm, I always played move it x inches in the direction nominated; if it charges it aligns to the enemy. Still, it seems your interpretation of the rules may also be valid. Sticking to "counts as charging, following all the normal rules", do you move the spawn during the 'move chargers' part of the phase instead of compulsory moves? If so, is it considered to have declared its charge after any normal models?


so you hit the front, and you maximise.

I'm confused to how you justify this part under the following:

Q. Does a unit that moves via compulsory movement have to obey the normal charging conventions regarding Front/Flank/Rear? Or may such a unit (e.g. Chaos Spawn) hit a side of an enemy unit different from the one where they began their move?
A. They must obey the normal rules, and so if they would hit a side of the enemy that they cannot charge, they must stop 1" away from the enemy.


Could you answer these questions please, EVC; you always seem confident of your rule interpretations so I'm sure you can sort me out.


EDIT: Tae that FAQ I quoted above will probably be handy for you; it is from BRB FAQ part 2

EvC
29-04-2009, 18:06
Hmm, I always played move it x inches in the direction nominated; if it charges it aligns to the enemy. Still, it seems your interpretation of the rules may also be valid. Sticking to "counts as charging, following all the normal rules", do you move the spawn during the 'move chargers' part of the phase instead of compulsory moves? If so, is it considered to have declared its charge after any normal models?

To be honest I'm not sure if the Spawn should be moved in the compulsory or move chargers phase... but either way, you do have to follow the normal rules, such as maximising.




I'm confused to how you justify this part under the following:

Q. Does a unit that moves via compulsory movement have to obey the normal charging conventions regarding Front/Flank/Rear? Or may such a unit (e.g. Chaos Spawn) hit a side of an enemy unit different from the one where they began their move?
A. They must obey the normal rules, and so if they would hit a side of the enemy that they cannot charge, they must stop 1" away from the enemy.


Could you answer these questions please, EVC; you always seem confident of your rule interpretations so I'm sure you can sort me out.

Ah, you are right here- I was trying to get across that you can't aim for the flank from the front and take the flank charge, which is correct, but I assumed that you would then just treat it as a regular charge and make contact in the arc you started in. But as you say, it would be a failed charge in this case. Moral: don't try and cheekily clip into a flank charge when you're not in that arc, cos the rules won't let it happen :D

Lorquas
30-04-2009, 12:20
Cheers guys for the answers.

Regarding the flank charge. Do models with a Compulsory move get to ignore the usual rules for declaring a charge!?!? I'm not even sure what the common sense answer is here. Personally I think the rules for charging should always apply even in the case of things that have compulsory moves. It's not clear though....

Also, regarding maximising. Are you suggesting that you line up the Spawn (at an enemy unit) and then roll distance. If you then have excess distance you can then change it's movement direction to maximise the fight?

In our Battle at the weekend my mate was able to aim his Spawn so it just hit 1 model out on the wing of a large unit. Thus only 1 of 20 models could attack the fat lump back! I argued that we should still maximise the fight (as he had loads of spare movement) but he insisted that the rules simply state that you point the model in a direction and just move it...

hmmmmmmmm

xragg
30-04-2009, 12:28
Also, regarding maximising. Are you suggesting that you line up the Spawn (at an enemy unit) and then roll distance. If you then have excess distance you can then change it's movement direction to maximise the fight?



basically yes. You dont declare charges for compulsory moving units. You only nominate the direction. If it brings it into contact with an enemy, you maximize models as a normal charge if you have the movement and you have to be on the front/side/rear that you began the movement in.

Harwammer
30-04-2009, 12:42
As I said earlier I previously played spawn as Lorquas's mate did (except we play extreme sliding, so if you clip you still move your model to be in contact with the max number of models). I'm interested in understanding how other people play, so here are some further questions:

If the spawn has enough movement to collide with an enemy unit, then it counts as declaring a charge? Additionally, instead of following its normal movement rules, the spawn follows the charging rules?

In this case does the spawn charges in the same way as evey other monster; moving a maximum of its charge distance, one pivot at most (during any part of its move), making sure to maximise?

Thanks for any answers.

theunwantedbeing
30-04-2009, 12:59
As I said earlier I previously played spawn as Lorquas's mate did (except we play extreme sliding, so if you clip you still move your model to be in contact with the max number of models). I'm interested in understanding how other people play, so here are some further questions:

If the spawn has enough movement to collide with an enemy unit, then it counts as declaring a charge? Additionally, instead of following its normal movement rules, the spawn follows the charging rules?

Yes, you follow all the rules for charging when you move into contact with an enemy unit as the only way to get into base contact is to charge.


In this case does the spawn charges in the same way as evey other monster; moving a maximum of its charge distance, one pivot at most (during any part of its move), making sure to maximise?


Yes it does, as thats the normal charge rules that it has to follow when it wishes to get into base contact.
So no moving into the flank of a unit and claiming to be in the flank when you started in the unit's front arc.

Look at page 20, diagram 20.2 in the rulebook.

limkopi
04-05-2009, 08:35
Quoting Spawn entry in Army Book.

"If the Spawn's movement is sufficient take it into an enemy unit then it counts as charging, following all the normal rules. The target may make a charge reaction as normal, counting the Movement value rolled as the Spawn's maximum charge distance."

So,

1. See if the Spawn would touch the enemy unit.
2. Enemy gets to react.
3. Do a normal charge move with the result of the move distance as a maximum charge move, with one pivot and a free alignment wheel. You should also ensure maximum number of models in contact.