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View Full Version : Would you rather have a suit of Imperial Power Armour, or a Battle Suit, and why?



Balance-keeper
29-04-2009, 17:58
This thread is for all those in the tau vs imperium arguements and all that wish to join in.

Kraxis
29-04-2009, 18:01
A tau Crisis suit. It's tough, has a jump pack, two heavy weapons, plus comms, targeting help and loads of extra stuff. It is very mobile for it's size, and also sports very long range. In my eyes, a true winner.

Zahr Dalsk
29-04-2009, 18:04
I'll take a Crisis Suit, on account of it being so much better. I don't even need surgery or exercise; I can just sit inside it and control its actions.

captain ceaser
29-04-2009, 18:24
Sorry rule of cool exists for a reason. MK 7 looks the shizz.

Lord_Crull
29-04-2009, 18:24
We would be able to use nethier, we would have no knowledge to use ethier suit nor the sugery if we have an astartes-pattren suit.

PondaNagura
29-04-2009, 18:27
crisis suit, as they are adaptable to the pilot's needs as well as their fighting styles [though not represented in the game mechanics for HtH]. while power armor is durable and ancient, one needs to have the highest authority to use it too it's fullest, which seems to be either an inquisitorial commitment or the whole genetic modification ordeal of a marine.

Ravenheart
29-04-2009, 18:29
I would like to have a male version of the sororitas power armor.

It's not cumbersome like the SM version but still delivers good protection.

Zahr Dalsk
29-04-2009, 18:30
We would be able to use nethier, we would have no knowledge to use ethier suit

Though since Tau understand their technology, the Earth Caste Engineer would be able to explain to us how to use it.

Demon Druss
29-04-2009, 18:34
I'd take the power armor any day, any time, sure it means having a few electro grafts and some horrific surgery to have the plug in points installed but I feel its a winner if its still in style 10 millenia later not to mention the reliability. Also the resale value is immense compared to the Crisis suit because every edition new versions are developed rendering your old crisis suit more and more decrepit and error prone.

Remember Buy Imperial Folks!

NightrawenII
29-04-2009, 18:44
Power Armour of course.
If I can use it, Im Space Marine or Inquisitor!!!:chrome:
Epic win.:angel:

Yarick Zan
29-04-2009, 18:45
Battle suit. It would mean I was a part of a culture that learns from it's mistakes and isn't stagnating. That and it can pretty much fly (without any add ons).

SabrX
29-04-2009, 18:50
The first question you should ask is do you think your gene is compatible with the geneseed, would you be able to come out on top in the blood trials, would you like serving your life on the battlefield as servant to the emperor, and would you like caraspace armor to be inserted underneath you skin?

The second question you should ask is what philosophy you prefer? The dogmatic imperial cult or the socialistic caste great good?

As to which is better, a single Crisis Suits (access to armory) has more bells and whistles then a single space marine.

Zahr Dalsk
29-04-2009, 18:53
socialistic caste great good

Tau aren't socialist, just thought I'd mention that. They have a caste system and are not democratic. Therefor, not socialist.

Kraxis
29-04-2009, 19:17
Tau are communism that works.

Not real communism though. It ain't exactly "the dictatorship of the proletariat" but still good.


But on topic, those who deem the power armor to be superior are mad in my book. Crisis suit, any day!(or failing that, gimme a nasty Stealthsuit and a nice burst cannon. Look out orks!)

Threeshades
29-04-2009, 19:19
Power Armour of course.
If I can use it, Im Space Marine or Inquisitor!!!:chrome:
Epic win.:angel:

Or you're a sister of battle. :D


I think i'll roll for Mega armour.

To be frank, Id rather die and have my soul permanently installed in a wraithlord

Zahr Dalsk
29-04-2009, 19:20
Tau are communism that works.


Looks like somebody missed the part where Tau have a caste system. There are no castes or orders of social hierarchy in true communism (which is, by the way, why it doesn't work for humans or Tau. Closest thing to communists in 40k are Craftworld Eldar.)

Lord_Crull
29-04-2009, 19:24
Though since Tau understand their technology, the Earth Caste Engineer would be able to explain to us how to use it.

Not stated in the OP about the Earth caste, until then I assume that the suit drops magicaly out of thing air.:p

Johnnyfrej
29-04-2009, 19:30
I wouldn't mind being encased in a Dreadnaught. Natural immortality (from old age) + 20-foot killing machine = win.

Kraxis
29-04-2009, 19:31
Looks like somebody missed the part where Tau have a caste system. There are no castes or orders of social hierarchy in true communism (which is, by the way, why it doesn't work for humans or Tau. Closest thing to communists in 40k are Craftworld Eldar.)

I said afterwards that it ain't true communism. But the things about equality, same rights, everybody supporting each other is communism. The Ethereals break this though.

Apart from the Ethereals, the caste system is not that far away. Everyone has a specific task. But, seeing as everyone is happy with it and feels hnoured, respected and equal wherever they go, i won't say this is a stop.


Bottom line is that it ain't communism, but with lots of communist ideas and closer to the commie system than any other system.

Now, let's get back to the topic. Battlesuits FTW.(sorry, had to say something lest i spam too much)

Col. Tartleton
29-04-2009, 19:32
Powah Armah for the SPehss Mahreens! Boltas Akimbo for the Gawd Emporah!

There's something sexy about space Marine armor. Its rather silly looking but it still manages to shout hardcore.

Besides I'm a fan of melee combat. Sure shooting an enemy tank with a fusion of subatomic particles is fun, but running up and bending up the barrel before activating your power fist and placing it through the hull would be sick. Space marine get more cool gear as well. Yes Tau have a bazillion combinations of gear, but technically so do marines. Your marine can take a lot of different weapons on the same chassis.

Just Bolter Variants:
Bolt Gun
Bolt Pistol
Duel Bolt pistols
Duel Bolters
Stormbolter
Duel Stormbolters
Heavy Bolter
Combi Melta
Combi Plasma
Combi Flamer
Combi Bolter
[Psycannon
Combi Needler
Combi Staker]

Any pairing of the above weapons you can imagine. Did I mention there are multiple types of ammo:

-Tactical Bolt
-Dragon Fire Bolt
-Hellfire Bolt
-Kraken Bolt
-Vengeance Bolt
-More

Then there are Plasma, Flamer, and Melta variants of each of those.

-Plasma Gun -Flamer -Melta
-Plasma Pistol -Flamer Pistol -Melta Pistol
-Duel Plasma Pistols - Duel Flamer Pistols -Duel Melta Pistols
-Duel Plasma Guns -Duel Flamers -Duel Meltas
-Plasma Blaster -TL Flamer -Multi Melta?
-Plasma Cannon -Heavy Flamer -Multi Melta?

Then there Autocannons, Lascannons, allegedly Multilasers, Missile Launchers with varying ammo types

Then we come to melee:

-Knife
-Chain Sword -Chain Axe - Chain Maul -Chain Glaive -Chain Fist -Chain Chain?
-Power Sword -Power Axe -Power Maul -Power Fist -Power Hammer -Power Boot?
-Thunder Hammer -Lightning Claws -Crozii
-Force Staffs -Force Axes -Force Swords

Plus a half dozen types of grenades, Additional Vehicles like Bikes, Jump Packs, and Teleporters, all kinds of gear like shielding gear targetters, and not to mention the built in abilities of the suit.

I like options.

Kraxis
29-04-2009, 19:35
Powah Armah for the SPehss Mahreens! Boltas Akimbo for the Gawd Emporah!

There's something sexy about space Marine armor. Its rather silly looking but it still manages to shout hardcore.

Besides I'm a fan of melee combat. Sure shooting an enemy tank with a fusion of subatomic particles is fun, but running up and bending up the barrel before activating your power fist and placing it through the hull would be sick. Space marine get more cool gear as well. Yes Tau have a bazillion combinations of gear, but technically so do marines. Your marine can take a lot of different weapons on the same chassis.

Just Bolter Variants:
Bolt Gun
Bolt Pistol
Duel Bolt pistols
Duel Bolters
Stormbolter
Duel Stormbolters
Heavy Bolter
Combi Melta
Combi Plasma
Combi Flamer
Combi Bolter
[Psycannon
Combi Needler
Combi Staker]

Any pairing of the above weapons you can imagine. Did I mention there are multiple types of ammo:

-Tactical Bolt
-Dragon Fire Bolt
-Hellfire Bolt
-Kraken Bolt
-Vengeance Bolt
-More

Then there are Plasma, Flamer, and Melta variants of each of those.

-Plasma Gun -Flamer -Melta
-Plasma Pistol -Flamer Pistol -Melta Pistol
-Duel Plasma Pistols - Duel Flamer Pistols -Duel Melta Pistols
-Duel Plasma Guns -Duel Flamers -Duel Meltas
-Plasma Blaster -TL Flamer -Multi Melta?
-Plasma Cannon -Heavy Flamer -Multi Melta?

Then there Autocannons, Lascannons, allegedly Multilasers, Missile Launchers with varying ammo types

Then we come to melee:

-Knife
-Chain Sword -Chain Axe - Chain Maul -Chain Glaive -Chain Fist -Chain Chain?
-Power Sword -Power Axe -Power Maul -Power Fist -Power Hammer -Power Boot?
-Thunder Hammer -Lightning Claws -Crozii
-Force Staffs -Force Axes -Force Swords

Plus a half dozen types of grenades, Additional Vehicles like Bikes, Jump Packs, and Teleporters, all kinds of gear like shielding gear targetters, and not to mention the built in abilities of the suit.

I like options.


I like options too, but i don't like dying from looking at the list.

Wait a minute, dual Bolters? Do you mean Twin-Linked of some type or actually two? Haven't heard bout this before.

Also, ain't the Chain axe a Chaos thing and pretty much reserved for World Eaters and Berzerkers?

Bergioyn
29-04-2009, 19:42
Power Armour! In the suit of Holy Power Armor shall I smite the foes of mankind! Kill the Xenos! Kill the Traitor! FOR THE EMPEROR!

Col. Tartleton
29-04-2009, 19:47
I like options too, but i don't like dying from looking at the list.

Wait a minute, dual Bolters? Do you mean Twin-Linked of some type or actually two? Haven't heard bout this before.

Also, ain't the Chain axe a Chaos thing and pretty much reserved for World Eaters and Berzerkers?

But The Imperium wants you to die from looking at the list ;)

Yeah I meant a really BA thug Marine duel wielding bolters then I thought it would be even better if he duel wielded combi bolters... 4 Bolters> 1 Bolter

There are Imperial Chain Axes, the Minotaurs use them I think, I mean its not like its heresy to use an axe variant. Its just that Khorne Troops love them to the point they're part of the mythos of a Beserker.

librisrouge
29-04-2009, 20:30
In the name of the Imperial Inquisition!!!!
...
So yeah, Power Armor for the win. Love me some Imperial technology. Gilded Power Armor, Whirling Chain Axe with a Storm Shield in each hand, and my favored hellgun strapped to my hip. Smiten' foes and taking names for him on Earth.

Poseidal
29-04-2009, 20:46
Power Armour.

Assuming I can get it, that means I'm pretty much I would be an Inquisitor (Or SOB, but I don't have control of it then).

I can make it made custom for myself, I don't need surgery (or much, certainly not as much as a marine) and I have more freedom of movement rather than the bulky suit.

Kraxis
29-04-2009, 20:56
This ain't a "if you have this armor, what would you be", it's simply which armor you would like. If you like it because it would mean you were inquisitor, you've got this wrong.

Fixer
29-04-2009, 20:56
Powered armor. Firstly it's neurally linked so I don't have to worry about any piloting courses. It's human shaped and sized so i can fit into normal surroundings.

Imperial technology is sturdy, tested and reliable. You can probably run around in that same suit for the rest of your life only needing a couple of repairs.

Tau tech is their cutting edge. Probably needs a tune up from a certified Earth caste engineer every 5000 miles and most importantly of all, doesn't have awesome shoulderpads and gothic imperial decorations ;)

Poseidal
29-04-2009, 20:59
This ain't a "if you have this armor, what would you be", it's simply which armor you would like. If you like it because it would mean you were inquisitor, you've got this wrong.

Ok, we can put it like this.

Tau Battlesuits require surgery and plugs
Astartes Power Armour require surgery and plugs
Inquisitor Power Armour requires you to put it on

My choice is Inquisitor (or non astartes) power armour. It offers similar protection as the other two, requires no surgery and isn't (very) bulky.

Balance-keeper
29-04-2009, 21:19
Tau Battlesuits DONT require surgery....you just get into the thing and power it up....interface with the suit and away you go

librisrouge
29-04-2009, 21:23
My answer wasn't based on being an inquisitor but rather the asthetics on Imperial Technology. Especially since, if I can get power armor a hellgun and chainweapon isn't a stretch to have included. All the High Gothic imagry is just pimpin'

Hmm, raises the possibility of Astartes TV having a Pimp My Platemail show.

Empire
29-04-2009, 22:53
Well, is there (Like somebody else was mentioning) a male version of the Sisters of Battle armor? Space Marine power armor is FAR too big for a normal human.

I actually really like the Seraphim jetpack and armor (If I can get myself a male variant). If I had to choose between Space Marine power armor and Tau battlesuits exclusively, I'd go with the battlesuit. Shoot-shoot, bang-bang, and an awesome jetpack. Plus, I couldn't use the power armor to full effect without the implants.

cairodude12
29-04-2009, 23:20
I doubt either would be comfortable, but I would take the crisis suit. A jetpack is handy to have as well as two extra weapons and a couple gun drones that follow you around and take hits for you.

kikkoman
29-04-2009, 23:56
I would like to have a male version of the sororitas power armor.

It's not cumbersome like the SM version but still delivers good protection.

I think it's actually more cumbersome than Astartes power armor.

Space marines have some kinda "feels like my own skin" interface with their armor because of the black carapace. Regular humans don't.

Don't Tau battlesuits require you to plug something into the base of your skull?

I'd go with the power armor, it looks cooler. As far as power armor goes, very few designs match the coolness of 40k's. As far as robots go... I think GW could've done a better job with the Tau.

Fluxeor
30-04-2009, 00:07
Poll seems to be closed (><), But having a "life sized" marine statue (ok it's actually 7 feet tall, so more like a normal person in the armour but meh it's still win), and every time i look at it makes me want to hollow out the thing and make the joints flexible.. i can safely say, the Crisis suit doesn't even have a look in.

Hellebore
30-04-2009, 00:14
I like robots so I'd go with tau battlesuits. They stick a needle into your spine when you get in.

You'd get some lawl anime moments where you have to learn how to pilot it, but you'd still be able to learn without guidance because the suit picks up your thoughts.

Hellebore

zan77
30-04-2009, 00:44
Id go with tau. theres just so many different suits u can get. :chrome:

w00tm0ng3r
30-04-2009, 00:46
Crisis suit FTW. To make this fair though, it should probably be a comparison between crisis suits and terminator armor because they actually look like they'd be in the same weight/size class (and they're both elite choices). I'd still take a crisis suit because it lets you have extreme armor, excessive firepower, and awesome mobility all at once while the terminator armor gives you excessive armor, above average firepower (let's face it, regular spess mehreen sergeants can take power fists and a storm bolter is just 2 bolters strapped together; still awesome but it's nothing compared to what a crisis suit is packing), and **** mobility.

And on the topic of Tau society, they're not communist at all considering they have caste systems and an authoritarian government. They're actually really close to fascism, but in that dystopia 1984 kind of way that makes them look like a utopia at first glance, not the Imperium's blatant fascism (what most people think of when they think fascist). Think about it: they bio-engineered each caste to be good at what they do, conditioned everyone to be happy with their job, suppress individuality in favor of "The Greater Good", indoctrinate everyone into the Ethereal's servitude, and (supposedly) mind control the populace. Just replace "Ethereal" with "Big Brother" and "The Greater Good" with "the Party" and you'll see what I mean.

Ertle
30-04-2009, 00:53
Definitely Power armour like somebody said before you dont use the same basic thing for 10,000 yrs. without it being amazing. Also it looks way cooler. Imperium>Tau

Hellebore
30-04-2009, 00:57
Definitely Power armour like somebody said before you dont use the same basic thing for 10,000 yrs. without it being amazing. Also it looks way cooler. Imperium>Tau

Unless you are an ignorant and superstitious imperium that hasn't innovated that design for 10,000 years. None of the power armour variants were put into use earlier than 10,000 years ago (afaik the Mk8 is still from that time).

In our culture your statement is true, in the Imperium it's impossible to know if it's true because they wouldn't make a better suit if they were able to.

Hellebore

librisrouge
30-04-2009, 01:09
I always thought of the Imperium more as a feudalist society, rather than facistic. Sure they have a bit of racism common to facism but, in all fairness, most aliens are actually out to get them. Plus, is it still racism if the targets aren't actually human?

I think that the reason I'd prefer power armor is the fact that, as an individual, I don't want to make myself a big *******' target like a Crisis Suit would. Power Armor, though bulk, still allows a fair amount of stealth by comparison. Marines and properly trained spec-forces can actually infiltrate in the stuff. Crisis Suits pop out of nowhere (Deep Strike) and engage in a firefight that may see them outgunned. Power Armor leaves you will as many options for stealth and cover as an unarmored soldier (with some limitations due primarily to size constraints.)

EDIT: WOW, I can't believe that was maked as a bad word! Five year olds say it and nobody cares.

w00tm0ng3r
30-04-2009, 02:24
Quite frankly the Imperium is a pretty messed up place where everything DEvolves instead of Evolves. The tech dudes don't even know how to make half the stuff they use and don't understand how the other half works. The Wh40k universe is practically like the vampire mythos where older = better, starting from the 30th millineum anyway (does not include rules/stats or models where newer = better). Basically, the fact that they've been using it for 10,000 years doesn't prove jack. I'm pretty sure the IG flak jacket and lasgun haven't changed in a very long time too, and we all know how badly they suck.

And the reason crisis suits don't stealth is, well, they don't need to... There's a reason the Tau have stealthsuits with built in cloaking devices remember? Also, a crisis suit is the Tau equivalent of terminator armor, not regular power armor. Both leave stealth and cover to the lesser, less experienced guys and go wading through combat with overwhelming (plot ;))armor and firepower after deepstriking/teleporting/jetpacking to where ever they'll be most helpful.

Orkeosaurus
30-04-2009, 02:38
I'm going to go with a write in for "Eavy Armor".

That's good stuff. Nice metul platez, stop da beeky shootas.

Valkyrie114
30-04-2009, 02:45
First of all, a Crisis suit does not need surgery to operate. Provided the Tau built the Crisis suit to be used by a human (unlikely), it could, potentially, out-class, out-gun, and out-fight a power armored space marine. Think of it this way.

Power Armor
+ Unwieldy
+ Must walk/ride transport
+ Only a Bolter (If it had a heavy weapon, than I could just take a railgun and be done with this argument...)

Crisis Suit
+ Jump packs with long range jumps possible
+ Deployable out of a Manta without expensive, disposable drop-pods
+ High control of movement (You control the suit with your mind as if it was your own body)
+ Targeting systems that allow you to fire on the move
+ Ceramic/Alloy armor not only resists small and medium arms, but is light-weight and heat resistant.
+ Armory of weapons with a range of uses from tank hunting to horde stomping.
+ If the suit takes damage, your entire physical body will likely stay intact as you are standing up in side the suit. (Your arms, legs and head cannot be ripped off by any big beasties)

and the list goes on...

Balance-keeper
30-04-2009, 03:26
First of all, a Crisis suit does not need surgery to operate. Provided the Tau built the Crisis suit to be used by a human (unlikely)

just for the record ... the tau battle suits will operate on a nueral-interface princable... its basicly the way their drones internal communications work when they form a link with each other... all that would be required is an implant in the poliets frountal cotex (around the size of the head of a pin) which allows for communication bettween the suit and its poilet... and a drone controller is just an amplifier that would allow the poilet to mentally give commands to the drones...

its not actually that advanced tech, but its very effective... the minds of the piolets would receive, process the information and give a command within around 5 nano-seconds (half a mili-second) thats about 3x as faster that normal...

so in theory and earth caste engerneer would just have to tweek the suit the suit to react to human brain wave commands and then all you'd need would be an injection with the implant in your frountal cotex (big migrain) ,take some parasetamol... wait 5 min for it to probe your mind and then away you go... In theory (it also could give you brain damage if it desides it doesn't like you(short circuits))

oh and if ya did have an earth caste dude their... he could give you an upgrade and give ya an inbuilt sheild gen, stealth feild, better targeting, internal pain surpressent (if the suit took too much damage) or maybe he might upgrade a drone to do repair work....etc....etc...(so many possabilities)

Firaxin
30-04-2009, 04:05
To make this fair though, it should probably be a comparison between crisis suits and terminator armor because they actually look like they'd be in the same weight/size class (and they're both elite choices).

Also, a crisis suit is the Tau equivalent of terminator armor, not regular power armor.
No. Absolutely not. Other people can argue this one for me, I've done it too many times over the years...


Power Armor
+ Unwieldy
+ Must walk/ride transport
+ Only a Bolter (If it had a heavy weapon, than I could just take a railgun and be done with this argument...)
No. It's not unweildy; Power Armor is your skin. You don't even realize it's there, unless it's broken. No, you can take jump pack, you don't have to walk. And no. There are more weapons options for a person in power armor than there are weapons & unit entries in the Tau codex. Should I list them all? Modularity is the Imperium's forte, sorry guys.


Crisis Suit
+ Jump packs with long range jumps possible

Jet packs. Shorter range jump than a jump pack, the space marine version.

+ Deployable out of a Manta without expensive, disposable drop-pods

It's a bird, it's a plane, no... It's a Thunderhawk!


+ High control of movement (You control the suit with your mind as if it was your own body)

Power Armor = Second Skin.

+ Targeting systems that allow you to fire on the move
...Everyone can do that. The battlesuit's advantage is that it stabilizes the weapons so you can shoot accurately on the move.


+ Ceramic/Alloy armor not only resists small and medium arms, but is light-weight and heat resistant.
<snip>
+ If the suit takes damage, your entire physical body will likely stay intact as you are standing up in side the suit. (Your arms, legs and head cannot be ripped off by any big beasties)
This reminds me of a point I made some time ago about why power armor should have a better save than a battlesuit if 40k were a d10 system.


Yes, actually. Power armor protects the wearer with between a centimeter and an inch or so of ceramite plates. It is very dense, but does little to reduce the impact force of a projectile. A round with sufficient strength can turn the marine's guts to a pulp but fail to penetrate the armor.

A battlesuit on the other hand relies on the thickness of the armor rather than any special density/properties (because Tau tech is nubular :angel:). This thickness, among other things, helps absorb the shock of a projectile's impact. It's why the pilot has a toughness bonus (you'll note space marines don't get a toughness bonus from their armor).

Then there's the fact that most of the model isn't actually the pilot. Just the body. You can shoot off the head, and the pilot could see through the slit on the front; you can shoot off the legs, and the pilot can maneuver around on it's jetpack. You can shoot off the jetpack and the pilot can walk around on the suit's legs. You can shoot off an arm and the pilot doesn't pass out from shock, but keeps on shooting with the other arm.

Personally, I believe that's why the battlesuit has a 3+ save instead of a 4+, because of the chance of shooting a non-essential part. Similar to how guardsmen can take bionics and get a better save to represent shots hitting their non-fleshy bits.

So that's my reasoning for why power armor deserves a better save. Actual chance of stopping a projectile (the save) is superior but chance of preventing physical trauma (toughness) is inferior. If a space marine were to pilot a battlesuit they'd get T5 but a worse save than power armor, too.


the minds of the piolets would receive, process the information and give a command within around 5 nano-seconds (half a mili-second) thats about 3x as faster that normal...
Just because the machine can process information faster than your brain doesn't mean your brain can do it like that. It will react at Brainspeed+machinespeed=time, not the lesser of the two.


oh and if ya did have an earth caste dude their... he could give you an upgrade and give ya an inbuilt sheild gen, stealth feild, better targeting, internal pain surpressent (if the suit took too much damage) or maybe he might upgrade a drone to do repair work....etc....etc...(so many possabilities)
If you had power armor, you could take a rosarius/icon of the just to provide a shield with the same strength as the Tau's. Only it would be size of a piece of jewelry rather than the size of a marine's torso. You could even wear jewelery that teleports you away if an attack gets through your defenses or conversion fields (the thing in storm shields for a 3++).
You could wear a ring on your finger which contains a miniature lascannon (ref: Xenos, of the Eisenhorn trilogy).
You could command servo-skulls/cherubs, far more intelligent than Tau drones and capable of mounting rifle-sized weapons of their own, (bolters, flamers, meltas, etc, CC-weapons too, actually, ref: Duty Calls, IIRC) or to act as sensors/repair bots/luggage carriers/etc.
Don't forget power armor already applies pain suppressants and stimulants by itself, you don't need a tech priest or anyone to do that.

Balance-keeper
30-04-2009, 04:17
Just because the machine can process information faster than your brain doesn't mean your brain can do it like that. It will react at Brainspeed+machinespeed=time, not the lesser of the two.


If you had power armor, you could take a rosarius/icon of the just to provide a shield with the same strength as the Tau's. Only it would be size of a piece of jewelry rather than the size of a marine's torso. You could even wear jewelery that teleports you away if an attack gets through your defenses or conversion fields (the thing in storm shields for a 3++).
You could wear a ring on your finger which contains a miniature lascannon (ref: Xenos, of the Eisenhorn trilogy).
You could command servo-skulls/cherubs, far more intelligent than Tau drones and capable of mounting rifle-sized weapons of their own, (bolters, flamers, meltas, etc, CC-weapons too, actually, ref: Duty Calls, IIRC) or to act as sensors/repair bots/luggage carriers/etc.
Don't forget power armor already applies pain suppressants and stimulants by itself, you don't need a tech priest or anyone to do that.

A) when i sed faster than your brain...what i meant was faster than your brain to body...so it would be Brainspeed+machinespeed-Bodyspeed=time

B) And tau drones have a better A.I than The imerpium since the Imperium afraid that the A.I will kill them.... so its outlawed... plus Servo-skulls are part organic for its no A.I, its C.I (Cybernetic intelligence) which is alot different... if the Drones used C.I they would be no reason for their to be a poilet in the battle suit a drone could do it with ease.. since the tau have full control over their tech.. and don't allow things to get out of control like the imperium did....

Empire
30-04-2009, 04:20
And no. There are more weapons options for a person in power armor than there are weapons & unit entries in the Tau codex. Should I list them all? Modularity is the Imperium's forte, sorry guys.

But the weapons aren't part of the power armor, are they? Or should they be included? I'm certain that teleportation ring isn't included. I'd hardly call picking up another gun modularity.

Anyway, aren't both clunky (At least for us)? The battle-suit is fairly clunky already, and there is barely any room to operate. Plus, the spinal implant is designed for Tau nervous systems. The power armor is either designed for Space Marines, who are about as big as a car each, and Sisters of Battle, who are females with female armor. Plus, we wouldn't be hooked up the nervous system of the power armor. Therefore, the only way this could be comparable is if we were turned into Taus or Space Marines, which would lead to plenty of problems in life (Why is that little guy blue and noseless? Why is that guy so big? Let's get him!).

Firaxin
30-04-2009, 04:22
A) when i sed faster than your brain...what i meant was faster than your brain to body...so it would be Brainspeed+machinespeed-Bodyspeed=time
Fair enough.


B) And tau drones have a better A.I than The imerpium since the Imperium afraid that the A.I will kill them.... so its outlawed... plus Servo-skulls are part organic for its no A.I, its C.I (Cybernetic intelligence) which is alot different... if the Drones used C.I they would be no reason for their to be a poilet in the battle suit a drone could do it with ease.. since the tau have full control over their tech.. and don't allow things to get out of control like the imperium did....
Did I say A.I.? No. Servo-skulls are still smarter. They're bonded souls/brains on life support.
I haven't seen the Tau match the Iron Men yet, either, but lets not turn this into a Tau/Imperium AI debate.


But the weapons aren't part of the power armor, are they? Or should they be included? I'm certain that teleportation ring isn't included. I'd hardly call picking up another gun modularity.
They can be part of the armor. Just like a battlesuit can switch its guns between missions, space marines can choose from an armory rack or slip on a different glove. Battlesuits can have shield generators, but it's not standard. An Inquisitor in power armor can have a displacer field (forget what it's called), but it's not standard.


Anyway, aren't both clunky (At least for us)? The battle-suit is fairly clunky already, and there is barely any room to operate. Plus, the spinal implant is designed for Tau nervous systems. The power armor is either designed for Space Marines, who are about as big as a car each, and Sisters of Battle, who are females with female armor. Plus, we wouldn't be hooked up the nervous system of the power armor. Therefore, the only way this could be comparable is if we were turned into Taus or Space Marines, which would lead to plenty of problems in life (Why is that little guy blue and noseless? Why is that guy so big? Let's get him!).
You don't have to be a marine. They work for Inquisitors too, as others have pointed out.

Grimbad
30-04-2009, 05:47
I'd go for the power armor.
Because if I were in m41, I'd be heading away from the fighting, and power armor is more portable and concealable. Cypher does well enough.
Also, a functional suit of high-quality power armor would sell very well, and I could retire rich and get old and die. Or maybe juvenat treatments for a few hundred years, see if m42 is worth my while, then kick the bucket.
Whereas a battlesuit would be nigh-impossible to hide, the Imperium will kill you if you try to sell it and the tau will kill you and repossess it if you try it in their empire.

I don't care about surgery or needles in my spine. It's m41, forced surgeries come with the package. It's either get power armor interfaces that I'll never need to use or have my right hand turned into a pen that writes in blood so I can spend my life copying manuscripts, then be a servo skull and do the same thing after life too.

FreightyMaximus
30-04-2009, 06:03
i would prefer a crisis battlesuit, better protection in my opinion and heavy weapons to bear
and a jump pack and im quite sure a set of normal power armour has a jump pack

FreightyMaximus
30-04-2009, 06:10
Tau Battlesuits DONT require surgery....you just get into the thing and power it up....interface with the suit and away you go

means less pain involved and easier too :D

Pooky
30-04-2009, 06:13
Power Armor all the way! If you want Tau armor then you should be executed for wishing to fratenise with the filthy enemy xeno! :D

Kraxis
30-04-2009, 13:42
To the people that uses jump packs and heavy weapons as a way to get equal to Crisis Suits in this respect, stop it. You can EITHER get a jump pack OR a heavy weapon. The Crisis does both jet packs AND TWO heavy weapons. Pretty one-sided in this regard.

librisrouge
30-04-2009, 13:48
I can get a jump pack AND a heavy weapon. BA command squads have the option I believe and even if they don't that wouldn't preclude such a thing from happening. On top of that, Tau tech doesn't have POWER FISTS that would be quite the equalizer between the two.:chrome:

Poseidal
30-04-2009, 13:56
To the people that uses jump packs and heavy weapons as a way to get equal to Crisis Suits in this respect, stop it. You can EITHER get a jump pack OR a heavy weapon. The Crisis does both jet packs AND TWO heavy weapons. Pretty one-sided in this regard.

They don't get two heavy weapons though.

Crisis suits are armed with two 'special' weapons; mid-weight things like Plasma Guns, Melta Guns etc.

They are not analogous to the Heavy Weapons of both the Tau and the Imperium.

Dakkagor
30-04-2009, 14:03
I can get a jump pack AND a heavy weapon. BA command squads have the option I believe and even if they don't that wouldn't preclude such a thing from happening. On top of that, Tau tech doesn't have POWER FISTS that would be quite the equalizer between the two.

Theres a reason no one takes scourges :evilgrin:

I'd take a battlesuit EVERY TIME. The weapon options allow you to customize for any occasion, you get an ablative wound, and the Tau can jam you full of top line cybernetics (how do you think hardwired target locks and multi-trackers work eh?), and if thats not enough firepower, I can go for a broadside

I'd go for a crisis suit, twin linked plasma rifle and fusion gun, hard wired multitracker, drone controller and target lock, and some of the fancy special issue equipment like stimulant injectors and vectored retro thrusters, along with an ejection system. If points are no option, why not? I'd be hurtling around the battlefield hopped up on drugs, melting space marines with plasma DOOM and if necessary I can get the earth caste to swap out my weapons.

Kraxis
30-04-2009, 14:53
I can get a jump pack AND a heavy weapon. BA command squads have the option I believe and even if they don't that wouldn't preclude such a thing from happening. On top of that, Tau tech doesn't have POWER FISTS that would be quite the equalizer between the two.:chrome:


Excuse my lack of knowledge, but what is BA? And no, i don't believe you. There's no way a marine is flying around with a jump pack and a heavy bolter, missile launcher or lascannon. Or the other heavy stuff. Even if they could, it would be one hell of a job to land and in an eyeblink fire off a boatload before jumping ou and repeating. Even a marine wouldn't be able to do that effectivly.

Firaxin
30-04-2009, 15:07
and if thats not enough firepower, I can go for a broadside
Broadsides are a veryveryvery different matter from a crisis suit. You should be comparing Broadsides to Dreadnaughts.


Excuse my lack of knowledge, but what is BA?
Blood Angels.


And no, i don't believe you. There's no way a marine is flying around with a jump pack and a heavy bolter, missile launcher or lascannon. Or the other heavy stuff.
I don't see the Tau doing it either.

Sceleris82
30-04-2009, 16:04
Powerarmor, cause i would look so *********** hardcore.

DivineVisitor
30-04-2009, 16:09
Power Armour because it's sexy ;)

And give me a bike! Vrooom!

Kraxis
30-04-2009, 16:19
I don't see the Tau doing it either.

I do. Crisis suits with missile pods and fusion blasters jumping all over the place. Or twin-linked plasma rifles and burst cannons or ion cycling thingy and heavy flamer. Or...

Wolf Guard
30-04-2009, 16:27
Bah, whats with the choices? Tactical Dreadnought Armour!

But power Armour would be prefered from the two listed :P

Balance-keeper
30-04-2009, 16:29
ERm dreadnoughts arn't armour...its a cybernetic machine

Wolf Guard
30-04-2009, 16:36
ERm dreadnoughts arn't armour...its a cybernetic machine

:eyebrows:

Here, educate yourself:
Tactical Dreadnought Armour (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tactical_Dreadnought_Armour)

Col. Tartleton
30-04-2009, 17:06
Tactical Dreadnought Armor is Terminator Armor.

The Imperium is too smart to call things stupid names like "Terminator" officially.

TDA is the stuff of legends. But therefore its not really in the same category as PA or a CS.

By yes, having a chainfist, assault cannon, and a cyclone missile launcher on the same platform that is nigh impossible to kill...

They're juicy. We'll leave it there.

But ultimately PA is tougher than a CS because a CS is an armored giant robot with a person in it, and PA is a skin tight suit of armor that ends up being roughly equal in safety. So those two things are pretty much hand in hand.

Back on point though, if anyone doesn't think weapons and cool gear should count towards PA, then you can have a Battle Suit with no weapons, jet pack, or additional systems/armor.

So sure you can have a 2+/4+ save on a battle suit, with a cyclonic ion cannon, and a missile pod with full systems gear, but with PA you can have a suit of artificer armor with a Rosarius and jump pack, plasma pistol and a thunderhammer, Melta Bombs, Krak and Frag Grenades, and a combi flamer just for s***s and lols. Can you shoot as well? No. But are you going to bust a move and kill 300 guardsmen by yourself? Hell yeah!

Firaxin
30-04-2009, 17:40
ERm dreadnoughts arn't armour...its a cybernetic machine
There's a full body inside a dreadnaught. Exactly like a battlesuit, but the body's connected to life support in addition to the machine...

kairous
30-04-2009, 17:50
crisis suit, because i have always been a gundam fan :D, yet i don't have tau, and mainly do CSM in 40k.

Ubermensch Commander
30-04-2009, 18:06
Power Armor. With J. Pack and Rosarius. And a Thunder Hammer. In this fashion, I may CRUSH the filthy xenos.

Both have their perks however. Preference would be the Power Armor even if it was JUST the power armor. Heck, especially if it was just the Power Armor. I could walk around looking bad ass and function normally (maybe turn sideways and crouch for some doorways or cars and such but hey, c'est la vie) with the enhanced capabilities.

The Tau suit is a bit less manually destrous and often harder to fit places. It's a bit bigger and has all those bits sticking out at odd angles. Ditch all the guns and its a bit easier but still have issues with fitting in doorways and such.

As for killy capability, it depends on the load out of each one and the situation.

Poseidal
30-04-2009, 18:11
I do. Crisis suits with missile pods and fusion blasters jumping all over the place. Or twin-linked plasma rifles and burst cannons or ion cycling thingy and heavy flamer. Or...

Those are medium/small arms. NOT heavy weapons. You cannot compare a Fusion Blaster and Plasma Rifle with a Multi-Melta and Heavy Plasma. They are analogous to the Melta Gun and Plasma Gun. Not the heavy stuff.

A Command Squad Marine can go around with a Plasma Gun and Melta Gun while wearing a Jump Pack.

Balance-keeper
30-04-2009, 18:16
There's a full body inside a dreadnaught. Exactly like a battlesuit, but the body's connected to life support in addition to the machine...

Not nessersaraly.... their can be parts of a body....but my point was its not armour...but then i was corrected, when he wasn't taking about a dreadnaught... but still its not exactly like a battlesuit.... the poilet of a battlesuit can get out when he wants to... and is a full person... not a half dead one or parts of one held to gether by the machine

Firaxin
30-04-2009, 18:36
Not nessersaraly.... their can be parts of a body....
*shrug* If I'm already getting two years worth of extensive, potentially fatal surgery to become a space marine, giving up my limbs to pilot a dreadnaught isn't too far off.


but my point was its not armour...but then i was corrected, when he wasn't taking about a dreadnaught...
I was, though.


but still its not exactly like a battlesuit.... the poilet of a battlesuit can get out when he wants to... and is a full person... not a half dead one or parts of one held to gether by the machine
So? Just because the pilots are different doesn't mean the machines don't match up.

Askari
30-04-2009, 19:24
Crisis Battlesuit for me.

+1W yeah...

MADJAP77
30-04-2009, 19:33
Crisis by far. My backpack has jets. "well assault marines have jet packs too" true but mine are built in and I won't look like Gregg Valentino trying to wear a star wars storm trooper outfit.

Keichi246
30-04-2009, 19:51
I have to vote Crisis Suit myself.

Bounce, shoot, bounce away with decent weaponry, an extra wound, and decent armor? Yes, please. It's just like Starship Trooper Power armor - the original reason I started playing 40k - and the reason why I've barely touched my Dark Angels since the Tau came out.

Of course - If I was TRULY given my druthers - I'd pick the Tau Commander suit from Dawn of War: Dark Crusade. :D
With all the trimmings, of course... ;)
(Stealth field, jet pack, missile pods, plasma rifle, flamer, Irridium armor, and shield drones? SURE I'll take that offer!)

w00tm0ng3r
30-04-2009, 20:33
No. Absolutely not. Other people can argue this one for me, I've done it too many times over the years...


Really? I always thought the match ups went something like: fire warrior armor = stormtrooper armor, stealth suit = scout armor, XV22 (shadowsun armor) = power armor, crisis suit = terminator, and broadside = dreadnaught.

Sekhmet
30-04-2009, 20:34
Power Armour of course.
If I can use it, Im Space Marine or Inquisitor!!!:chrome:
Epic win.:angel:

or you could be a nun.

stormblade
30-04-2009, 20:58
Dreadnaught battle saute- you get deployed, bash some stuff while swearing in a deep voice and then take a nap.

Triszin The Wrath God
30-04-2009, 20:58
power armor, crisis ain't got nothin on that armor !

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1915/etr5rsytuw.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=etr5rsytuw.jpg)

Balance-keeper
30-04-2009, 21:02
power armor, crisis ain't got nothin on that armor !

Dont just put that, you should back up your statment with at least an oppion why you think it aint got nothin on it... just to put that it aint isn't excactly a vaild point

Triszin The Wrath God
30-04-2009, 21:27
Dont just put that, you should back up your statment with at least an oppion why you think it aint got nothin on it... just to put that it aint isn't excactly a vaild point

i base my decision off many things.
1. power armor is relatively small, you could walk into a house it it on, but you might have to slouch a little, when you compare it to crisis armor, thats big and car sized, so you can't utilise it in close quarters.

2. i like the look of it, isnt that enough really, 50 % of the time it just comes down to the persons opinion on what looks better.

3. does this really have to be debated for the 10 millionth time. the thread was which would you want, not which would you want and why is it better. get with it!

btw its just a saying from movie, "KING KONG, AIN'T GOT NOThIN ON ME!!!!!!" that jamie presly movie with the white kid in the ghetto?

Kraxis
30-04-2009, 22:03
Those are medium/small arms. NOT heavy weapons. You cannot compare a Fusion Blaster and Plasma Rifle with a Multi-Melta and Heavy Plasma. They are analogous to the Melta Gun and Plasma Gun. Not the heavy stuff.

A Command Squad Marine can go around with a Plasma Gun and Melta Gun while wearing a Jump Pack.

Okay then, I stand corrected. So? Those weapons are still uber and a marine will be lucky to wield a single plasma gun to the effect of a twin-linked plasma rifle and a burst cannon. Or any configuration really.

And to those talking about a rosarius: WTF? If you got a rosarius you've got one boatload of an edge, but rosarius ain't really normal power armor equipment. If the marine got one he ain't gonna be shot up anytime soon, but all the crisis gear we mentioned is regular equipment, not reserved for the best of the best.

And last, to Triszin: Based on the looks 50% of the time? People choosing wargear in that way are not to be taken serious.



But, this ain't going anywhere. I think a Crisis would wtfpwn a power armor guy, and would be more fair to be in a contest with Terminators. Other people say otherwise, with arguments that are either wrong or lollish in my ears. Let's just say no one is ever going to change opinion based on this thread, and 70% of the people in it will fight to the bitter end for their chaice.

Balance-keeper
30-04-2009, 22:35
Let's just say no one is ever going to change opinion based on this thread, and 70% of the people in it will fight to the bitter end for their chaice.

Hear hear,

But this thread wasn't suppose to be an argueement just people voicing their oppions and why thats their choice... tho in any thread its healthy to have little debates... it allows you to look at things in differn't ways.. or convince people that your right... even if they dont admit it...

Col. Tartleton
30-04-2009, 22:46
Unless its an Ultramarine I think a firewarrior would "wtfpwn" a space marine. Tau plot armor is harder then any composite. :)

Crisis suits are better on paper, but then they are probably representing their actual ability whereas as we all know marines are neutered for balance in order to allow for game play.

Show me a fluff piece where 100 crisis suits conquer a planet.

Marines toting their over sized Bolters are that epic.

In the words of RZA:
Leave home the glock, I have a gun the size of a black hole, Shoot planets, don't get frantic, throw your hands up in the air, Don't panic :cool:

Ivellis
30-04-2009, 22:51
I imagine a Crisis Suit would be alot more fun than Power Armour in our world.

Balance-keeper
30-04-2009, 22:56
Show me a fluff piece where 100 crisis suits conquer a planet.

Marines toting their over sized Bolters are that epic.


Yeah and besides the fact the tau aren't stupid enough to even try that and on a fluke succeed, 100 space marines conquering a planet... even that seems to be exajerated... unless the planet was hardly habbited or their was only a small area that contained all its population...

When the tau attack worlds they only do it with bout 10% chance of failure at the most i dout that they would do if their was even that... since they goin with the full intention of winning and not leaving it upto chance....


or another way the marines could do it.. if it was a primitive planet....

saying that these 100 marines were they JUST normal marines?, did they have spacial fire support, tanks, anything like that would invaildate your point...

Triszin The Wrath God
30-04-2009, 22:57
O

And last, to Triszin: Based on the looks 50% of the time? People choosing wargear in that way are not to be taken serious.



who said anything about wargear? i was talking about the OP's.

meaning the decision on which a individual would rather have PA or a CS.

AndrewGPaul
30-04-2009, 23:05
I don't play Tau, so I don't know what the in-game effects of the battlesuits are. I assume it's 3+ save and effectively +1T?

Personally, I'd take the power armour. It's smaller, thus less cumbersome and easier to manoeuvre in. It's more adaptable - for a start, the hands are fully functional, so you can use standard equipment with a minimum of adaptation, rather than needing proprietary upgrades like the battlesuits.

There is nothing, really, stopping a Marine chapter kitting its Devastators out with jump packs, other than it's not the doctrine.

In any case, the battlesuit needs the jump pack for strategic and tactical mobility, where Imperial power armour does not. The Battlesuit needs that jump pack to keep up with the tanks. The Imperial forces can simply get n a Rhino, which provides additional protection over and above the armour, as well as the ancillary benefit of allowing the transportation of additional equipment (e.g. ammunition).

Empire
30-04-2009, 23:16
I'll choose both. Don't see why I can't.:)

Col. Tartleton
30-04-2009, 23:24
Yeah and besides the fact the tau aren't stupid enough to even try that and on a fluke succeed, 100 space marines conquering a planet... even that seems to be exajerated... unless the planet was hardly habbited or their was only a small area that contained all its population...

When the tau attack worlds they only do it with bout 10% chance of failure at the most i dout that they would do if their was even that... since they goin with the full intention of winning and not leaving it upto chance....


or another way the marines could do it.. if it was a primitive planet....

saying that these 100 marines were they JUST normal marines?, did they have spacial fire support, tanks, anything like that would invaildate your point...

There are tons of stories about companies taking out stuff. Yes the worlds tend to be lowly populated, but it doesn't take that many troops to conquer. It takes a lot of troops to garrison, but thats what the IG are for.

Ultimately its not quite accurate, but a chapter's ground assets legitimately could destroy an enemies ability to fight back. So lets say fifteen hundred CS taking on a planets total military. I still don't think it could be done. They rely too heavily on their mechanized FW to put too much faith in battle suits for anything more than performing asymmetric raids. Marines are only supposed to do the things that CS do, but they do a lot more because they are smaller.

Firaxin
30-04-2009, 23:27
And to those talking about a rosarius: WTF? If you got a rosarius you've got one boatload of an edge, but rosarius ain't really normal power armor equipment. If the marine got one he ain't gonna be shot up anytime soon, but all the crisis gear we mentioned is regular equipment, not reserved for the best of the best.
We're all normal humans, with power armor. That means we're either nuns (but I'm not a girl), Inquisitors, or someone not only veeeeery wealthy but who also has incredible high-up connections. Conversion/displacer fields and all sorts of other bling would be standard equipment for those sorts of people. The Imperium is like medieval Europe, power armor is a sign of status.


And last, to Triszin: Based on the looks 50% of the time? People choosing wargear in that way are not to be taken serious.
People pick cars that way. Don't see why it would be different when picking our attire to walk around in. We haven't been given a scenario and told to pick which suit would be better for that scenario, we've just been asked which we'd prefer to wear.


But, this ain't going anywhere. I think a Crisis would wtfpwn a power armor guy,
Actually, 1 Power Armor = 3-4 Crisis Suits all at the same time. :D (Ref: Kill Team)

Personally, I wouldn't pick a battlesuit because after about 30 years I'd develop battlesuit neurosis and get put to death by the Ethereals.


would be more fair to be in a contest with Terminators. Other people say otherwise, with arguments that are either wrong or lollish in my ears.

Really? I always thought the match ups went something like: fire warrior armor = stormtrooper armor, stealth suit = scout armor, XV22 (shadowsun armor) = power armor, crisis suit = terminator, and broadside = dreadnaught.
Wootmong, you're comparing them based on an ascending corresponding scale, but you should be looking at function. The best direct comparison for Stealth Suits and the XV22 in the Imperium would be the Vindicaire Assassin's 'stealth suit.' Power armor doesn't have a stealth function and isn't designed for that kind of mission at all.

Broadsides are slow, lumbering machines which lay down heavy firepower from afar, with ultra-heavy armor. That's exactly what a Dreadnaught with 2x ranged weapons is. A terminator is not a proper comparison because they're armed with ultra-heavy armor, but they want to keep their enemy as close to their chest as possible in order to engage them with their melee weapons and/or with their short-mid range storm bolters/assault cannons/heavy flamers. The one exception is the Cyclone missile launcher, which provides the squad with a modicum of long range support, but the squad is not supposed to be designed around that (there's a reason you don't see marine players hiding missile launcher terminators in terrain, using them as long range support). Plus, terminators are a lot more agile and faster than broadsides, not to mention they weigh less for better protection, and can teleport onto the battlefield so that they start right next to the enemy.

Battlesuits are about 3 things. Mobility, Firepower, and Modularity. Their armor is roughly equivalent in protection to power armor.
A person in power armor can operate any man sized weapon in the Imperium, including some pretty powerful weapons which the Tau have no equivalent for. They have all sorts of non-weapon options as well. But like battlesuits, they lose their mobility to operate heavier weapons. As far as mobility goes, a battlesuit's jetpack lets it hop around and over terrain pretty easily, but power armor can be equipped with a standard issue jump pack to do that too. In the technical sense of the word, power armor is actually more mobile, being much more compact and lighter. They can both be deployed from gunships over the battlefield. P.A.'s strength boosting properties (well, I guess half of it is the marine's conditioning and greater muscle mass) also allow the user to run as fast as some cars.


EDIT: Kudos to AndrewGPaul and Colonel Tartleton.

Zahr Dalsk
30-04-2009, 23:30
By the way, a Crisis Suit is considerably stronger than a single set of SM power armour, which is another thing to consider.

Dakkagor
30-04-2009, 23:35
Tactical Dreadnought Armor is Terminator Armor.

The Imperium is too smart to call things stupid names like "Terminator" officially.

TDA is the stuff of legends. But therefore its not really in the same category as PA or a CS.

True, and yet the Tau can mass produce Broadsides. . .


By yes, having a chainfist, assault cannon, and a cyclone missile launcher on the same platform that is nigh impossible to kill...

They're juicy. We'll leave it there.

Agreed, but. . .


But ultimately PA is tougher than a CS because a CS is an armored giant robot with a person in it, and PA is a skin tight suit of armor that ends up being roughly equal in safety. So those two things are pretty much hand in hand.

a crisis suit also gives a point of toughness and an ablative wound. That means if you jammed a space marine into a crisis suit (hypothetically) he would be toughness 5 (not 4/5, flat 5) and have two wounds.


Back on point though, if anyone doesn't think weapons and cool gear should count towards PA, then you can have a Battle Suit with no weapons, jet pack, or additional systems/armor.

So sure you can have a 2+/4+ save on a battle suit, with a cyclonic ion cannon, and a missile pod with full systems gear, but with PA you can have a suit of artificer armor with a Rosarius and jump pack, plasma pistol and a thunderhammer, Melta Bombs, Krak and Frag Grenades, and a combi flamer just for s***s and lols. Can you shoot as well? No. But are you going to bust a move and kill 300 guardsmen by yourself? Hell yeah!

Is that even a valid wargear combo these days for a codex marine? (checks codex) Doesn't appear to be! Anyway, when was the list time you saw a space marine take on 300 guardsmen on the tabletop and win, let alone live long enough to pray to the god emperor for mercy? I'm not syaing that the tau battlesuit with all toys would do better. . .but being able to duck into and out of range 24" would give it alot more room for manouvre and surviving!

And in response to Firaxin: one of the prime benefits of the tau crisis suit is to be able to tote rapid fire special weapons (and the range 36" missile pod) and fire these weapons on the move. Apart from terminator mounted weapons (as you correctly pointed out) the imperium has no powered armoured weapon system that can be fired on the move at range 36". Even a suspensor equipped heavy bolter losses half its range.

Broadsides and terminators are like comparing apples and oranges: one is a close assault tunnel fighting unit, the other is dedicated long range fire support. The fact that the tau have technology to allow broadsides to fire their railguns on the move, for such a small chassis, is pretty damn incredible, and even if they don't they can still fire their plasma rifles. I'm not sure if I would say a suit of terminator armour is faster than a suit of broadside armour: both move six inches and get a random run move, after all.

Krieg Marshall
30-04-2009, 23:45
I'll go with the power armour, as an inquistor. I'm sure I'll do a create inquisitor. Why, simply because I'm a pyromanic and I'm half spanish.

Firaxin
30-04-2009, 23:45
By the way, a Crisis Suit is considerably stronger than a single set of SM power armour, which is another thing to consider.
It doesn't make a difference even if it is, because battlesuits don't have hands and can't lift anything, nor can they use melee weapons.


True, and yet the Tau can mass produce Broadsides. . .
The Imperium mass produces EVERYTHING.


a crisis suit also gives a point of toughness and an ablative wound. That means if you jammed a space marine into a crisis suit (hypothetically) he would be toughness 5 (not 4/5, flat 5) and have two wounds.
Technically, real marine stats are in Codex: Movie Marines. So they're already better than a battlesuit. :angel:


Is that even a valid wargear combo these days for a codex marine? (checks codex) Doesn't appear to be!
So? Aside from the special issue equipment, battlesuit wargear is limited because of what fits on the machine. Space Marine wargear is limited by tactical doctrine.

starlight
30-04-2009, 23:51
All up? If we go by the rules, I'd take a Tau suit for all out combat.:)


Really, Astartes Power Armour is equalled or outclassed by Tau Crisis Suits on a one to one basis. The only downsides on the Tau side are related to the guy inside, not the suit... Put a highly trained human (say Stormtrooper/Veteran stats) and go from there...;)

Krieg Marshall
30-04-2009, 23:53
So? Aside from the special issue equipment, battlesuit wargear is limited because of what fits on the machine. Space Marine wargear is limited by tactical doctrine.

I can easly picture a pissed of marine say something like: "You damned heretical mutated xeno, you killed all my homies, let me pick all the big guns I can and I'm going to gibe some more a**holes."

Zahr Dalsk
01-05-2009, 00:00
It doesn't make a difference even if it is, because battlesuits don't have hands and can't lift anything, nor can they use melee weapons.

Stronger meaning it can take on multiple Space Marines in power armour, not physical motor strength.

However, on that note, the Crisis Suit is the better melee choice:

Dakkagor
01-05-2009, 00:07
The Imperium mass produces EVERYTHING.


Not forcefield technology, artificer armour or even terminator armour. The whole point of the IoM is technological decay: every suit of terminator armour is a treasured relic, every artificer armour plate a priceless treasure. Show me a single piece of GW produced background where a forgeworld is producing masses of artificer armour and I'll show you a liar. ;)



Technically, real marine stats are in Codex: Movie Marines. So they're already better than a battlesuit. :angel:

The day that wins an argument is the day hell freezes over. Look at the title. Does the word movie give the game away? :evilgrin: The movie marine codex allows you to recreate the battles in the awful black library tie in novels. The codex we have access to from the shelves of the GW stores are what marines actually fight like. And don't feed me "balance" or selling models as a sop: if that was the case they would push orks and guard and keep marines as a veterans force of difficult to play uber-eliteness.



So? Aside from the special issue equipment, battlesuit wargear is limited because of what fits on the machine. Space Marine wargear is limited by tactical doctrine.

Have you ever actually tried to lug multiple weapons and armour around with you? They are heavy. A space marine can manage a rifle, a sidearm and a knife. No infantryman needs anything more, and specialists drop the rifle for a special weapon and ammo, otherwise they would just load a tactical marine down with a flamer, meltagun and plasmagun, a bolt pistol, every type of grenade a chainsword and a missile launcher for good measure. Try fitting all of that onto a model and you'll get my point

DivineVisitor
01-05-2009, 00:21
Have you ever actually tried to lug multiple weapons and armour around with you? They are heavy. A space marine can manage a rifle, a sidearm and a knife. No infantryman needs anything more, and specialists drop the rifle for a special weapon and ammo, otherwise they would just load a tactical marine down with a flamer, meltagun and plasmagun, a bolt pistol, every type of grenade a chainsword and a missile launcher for good measure. Try fitting all of that onto a model and you'll get my point

Though i'd wager a space marine could still carry all that gear if he so disired :D

Power Armour still gets my vote though, i can atcually walk into buildings with it. Good luck fitting that Crisis Suit down a corridor ;)

Everyone has their own personal choice though, i go for power armour simply because i prefer it and i feel it's more useful in more situations.

Dakkagor
01-05-2009, 00:25
carry, possibly.

Fight effectively with 3 rifle sized weapons, ammo for same, a missile system, ammo for same, a close combat weapon 4 feet long and a side arm? Only if hes a freaky spider mutant space marine.

Firaxin
01-05-2009, 01:22
Not forcefield technology, artificer armour or even terminator armour. The whole point of the IoM is technological decay: every suit of terminator armour is a treasured relic, every artificer armour plate a priceless treasure. Show me a single piece of GW produced background where a forgeworld is producing masses of artificer armour and I'll show you a liar. ;)
Everything they make. They're not making artificer armor.
They are mass producing force field technology, however, if platoon level guard officers can have them.


Have you ever actually tried to lug multiple weapons and armour around with you? They are heavy. A space marine can manage a rifle, a sidearm and a knife. No infantryman needs anything more, and specialists drop the rifle for a special weapon and ammo, otherwise they would just load a tactical marine down with a flamer, meltagun and plasmagun, a bolt pistol, every type of grenade a chainsword and a missile launcher for good measure. Try fitting all of that onto a model and you'll get my point
I was responding to your comment about how Col. Tartleton's configuration was not legal as per the codex. The Tau codex allows all physically possible configurations; the space marine codex limits their options based on tactical doctrine. Tartleton's config was 1 melee weapon, 1 pistol, 1 rifle, + grenades. Which we know marines can handle. Col. Tartleton even acknowledged it would be harder to shoot.

starlight
01-05-2009, 03:49
Power Armour still gets my vote though, i can atcually walk into buildings with it. Good luck fitting that Crisis Suit down a corridor ;)

Actually sorry to say, but current building codes will neither fit nor support Astartes Power Armour...:(

Landsknecht
01-05-2009, 03:57
Power Armor.

I suppose a Crisis Suit is a bit better in some regards, but dammit, Power Armor is HUMAN. I'd refuse to use any stinking xeno technosorcery.

Power armor also wins on aesthetic grounds and my preference for Imperial weaponry.

sabreu
01-05-2009, 04:27
Neither. I'd go for Eldar flak armor

Kraxis
01-05-2009, 09:14
I just wish Farsight had brought the Dawn Blade home and got some people to examine it. If it turned out to be harmless to it's wielder(small chance) and possible to duplicate(even smaller chance) they could issue Dawn Blades as standard equipment available to all Crisis Suits.

If that wonderful thing was to happen, this topic would be over. Apart from that i wouldn't enjoy it though.


On a side note, can Crisis suits take Rail Rifles? I don't think Railguns would be possible, but a rifle would work.

Imperialis_Dominatus
01-05-2009, 09:28
dammit, Power Armor is HUMAN. I'd refuse to use any stinking xeno technosorcery.

QFT. And now you have my answer.

DivineVisitor
01-05-2009, 10:47
Actually sorry to say, but current building codes will neither fit nor support Astartes Power Armour...:(

And who says im an Astartes? ;)