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Sir_Lunchalot
20-12-2005, 21:13
I'm considering getting into fantasy again. This time I've managedto get a hold of the empire book and have made an army. I got thoroughly slapped around by a slaanesh army in the one game I playtested it, but then again, that's expected when you get a veteran teaching you a different system. I've made a couple modifications that will hopefully fix a couple mistakes from my first game.

The fluff for the army is that it's some sort of religious crusade. The infantry are going to use converted bretonnian men at arms models because I love those models, but hate a) rules for bretonnian men at arms and b) the empire infantry models. here's the list

Empire Army 2000 points

LORDS

Kurt Wallenstein
Templar Grand Master (160) with a Holy relic (40) and sword of power (40)
240 pts

HEROES

Roth Küber
Warrior priest (95) second hand weapon (4)
99 pts pts

Johannes Zepwlig Von Kevivelhopper
Warrior priest (95) great weapon (4) heavy armor (4) warhorse (10) with barding (4)
117 pts

Old Man Keppler
warrior priest (95) warhorse (10) heavy armor (4) great weapon (4)
113 pts

CORE

Knightly orders
9 knights (207) first knight (16) standard bearer (16) knights of the inner circle (27)
musician (8) standard of arcane warding (40)
314 pts

Knightly orders
5 knights (115) first knight (16) standard bearer (16)
147 pts

Knightly orders
5 knights (115) first knight (16) standard bearer (16)
147 pts

Spearmen
20 Spearmen (120) shields (20) full command (25)
Detachments: 6 swordsmen (42) 6 swordsmen (42)
249 points

Spearmen
20 Spearmen (120) shields (20) full command (25)
Detachments: 6 swordsmen (42) 6 swordsmen (42)
249 points

SPECIAL

Mortar
75 pts

RARE

Hellblaster volley gun
125 pts

Hellblaster volley gun
125 pts

TOTAL: 2000:chrome:

shadowprince
20-12-2005, 21:30
drop the halbadier for swordsmen their a better buy, I believe the swordsmen are cheaper so you can up the uit size. Get some nights of the white wolf make them inner circle. And can't the war priests take the white wolf hammer. It seems you are going ulric style anyway, go get the ARMY OF MIDDEHIENM its in the storm of chaos book, you loose the siege weopons but gain some more hardy troops.

Kahadras
20-12-2005, 21:38
Hmmm doesn't seem very religious crusade to me. You want to take stuff like pistoliers (young nobles off to join the crusade), knights (plenty of them), warrior priests (I hope you mean that instead of warpriests), Flagellants (a crusade would attract them), Free company (basicaly peasants taking up arms). Drop the artillery (maybe just keep a cannon) and I would probably have swordsmen over halbardiers (they are just better in combat IMO). Changes like these would make your list definatly more fluffy at least.

Kahadras

Keller
21-12-2005, 04:00
Dispel Scrolls and the Seal of Distruction are Arcane items, which warrior priests may not have. Only wizards may carry arcane items, and priests are not wizards, even though they cast prayers and generate dispel dice.

Combat detachments, such as free coms, would go a long way on your foot troops. Shooting detachments can be helpful, but typically only if you plan on being static, else they can't shoot except against chargers.

The Shroud of Magnus on the Grand Master isn't really worth it IMO. If you fight a lot of chaos or skaven, maybe, but typically it is too expensive. Even against those armies is of little use, since it doesnt protect the whole unit. I would drop it for the Holy Relic to improve the Ward and save 15 points. Also, the Sword of Power isn't that great in my experience. A simple Lance or Greatweapon works just as well, for a whole lot cheaper. One setup I find that works well for a Grand Master is the White Cloak (5+ save) and the Laurals of Victory (doubles kill CR). With the Master's decent stats and 4 attacks, you can usually add 4-6 to the resolution with little trouble, helping to break units when you charge.

Sir_Lunchalot
22-12-2005, 04:31
well, after playing a few games, and tweaking the list (by tweaking of course I mean completly re-vamping it) I've made a LOT of changes. I've updated the lsit in my first post, so you can scroll up to find the new list. here are the changes:

tweaked wargear on the lord

got rid of illegal magic items on teh priests, and mounted a second one.

switched halberdiers for spearmen and switched handgunner detatchments for swordsmen detatchments

took one unit of knights down to 9 models, gave them a magic banner, split the other unit into 2 blocks of 5, the 5 man blocks have champion and standard.

switched the cannon for a mortar

added another volley gun.

now, here's the plan. all the spearmen and artillery crews will be converted from bretonnian men-at-arms models. the swordsmen will be grail pilgrims. the warpriest on foot will use the first valten mini. the knights will be empire knights, the priests will be luthor huss, and another, as of yet undetermined model. the general I'm undecided upon, but I think I'm going to use a converted plastic knight.

as for the fluff, the religious war is only a suggestion of a theme at this point. it's a way to excuse the large number of priests and the rag-tag look of the soldiery. :chrome:

Keller
22-12-2005, 05:08
Honestly, I don't think Helblasters fit into the Crusade much. They are weapons of dedicated engineers, and wouldn't really be hauled deep into enemy territory where they would easily break down. I would scrap atleast one, prefferably both. However, I am biased against them, since I think they have only ever done more than explode in maybe 3 games of atleast 14. I can't stand em.

Infantry units for the Empire work best in 25, I find. Set them up in a 5x5 formation to give a good number of attacks while still being able to take casualties. You have to lose 6 before you lose a rank bonus when set up in such a way, which usually means you can hang onto it for atleast 1 round of combat, even after shooting.
Combine your detachments. The biggest problem with detachments is fitting them on the table. Each one has to be US5 or more to negate ranks and provide the flank bonus; with units of 6 the enemy just has to shoot at each one once to ruin that ability. A nuit fo 12 in a 6x2 formation will generally get all 6 into contact to attack, while being difficult to reduce below US5.
As for the detachments, I can't reccomend changing from swordsmen enough. Many people swear by them, but I find them just too expensive. Besides that, they are a defensive-style unit, and you need to kill as many as possible when you counter charge. I generally use Halberdiers on my Spearmen, and Free Coms on most other units. Both units are quite cheap, and have good offensive striking ability. Free Coms are the best buy, generally speaking, but I like the S4 halberds when spears already get plenty of attacks. Plus I just really like Halberd models, which is why I make them detachments and parent units when most others don't.

With the points from the helblasters and swordsmen, you can easily afford to bump the infantry and the knight units up a bit. Knights work well with 6x1 formation with champ and musician; standards are just easy VP for the enemy on small units. Use them to support the infantry; you can only claim one +1 for a standard, no matter how many you have in the combat.

Lastly, some archers or huntsmen would go a long way in the army. The only shooting you have is semi-unreliable mortar and two very-unreliable helblasters. I would consider adding some archers (more in-line with the Crusade than handguns or CrossbowsS), as the extra shooting can really help out, especially against lighter units. Plus, the Empire archers skirmish, which make for great screening troops, as well as very mobile attackers to thwart fast-cav, scouts, skirmishers, and tunnelers.

But in the end its your army. You can make a lot of things work, as long as you play them properly. These are the changes I would make, but that is more akin to how I play.