PDA

View Full Version : Measuring charges.

W0lf
01-05-2009, 00:53
where do you measure charges from?

Im sure its from the centre of the unit but aparently its been FAQed (cant find it?)

alextroy
01-05-2009, 01:10
Your question is unclear. Generally speaking, you measure charges from model to model.

Tae
01-05-2009, 01:11
I thought you measured from the closest model as the 'free wheel' means that the rest of the unit can get in provided one model can hit.

However would also welcome any official publication as to where it is measured from.

theunwantedbeing
01-05-2009, 01:20
You measure the distance travelled by the model who has to move the furthest.
If he can reach, (or in moving him his max distance another member of the unit reaches) then the charge is in range.
Once touching the enemy you get the free alignment wheel.

You never measure from the centre of the unit for charges.
You only use the unit's centre for the direction the enemy flee's in.

W0lf
01-05-2009, 01:50
You measure the distance travelled by the model who has to move the furthest.

so you measure from furthest point????

where do you get this ruling? And thanks, i ask because to do a regular opponent pulled a charge measuring from nearest point claiming it was FAQed.. it cost me the game funny enough...

Makaber
01-05-2009, 02:20
When the unit charges, it creates a sort of "threat corridor" which is the width of the unit. It can wheel once during its charge move to adjust the heading of this "corridor". If at any point during its charge move any model in the unit touches the unit charged, the charging unit stops moving, and automatically make a free wheel to align to the charged unit.

So you measure it exactly like a march move limited to a single wheel.

dariakus
01-05-2009, 02:35
A follow-up question I've got is, do you have to wheel to align yourself toward the unit you're charging, or can you just charge straight ahead, and just align when you hit it.

I ask because this can have a very large effect on how you align your troops when advancing, and on setting up bait situations where you *want* to declare a flee reaction to coax someone into a trap.

Makaber
01-05-2009, 02:57
You can wheel as much or as little as you want, provided you try to get your models to contact as many enemy models as possible.

Cats Laughing
01-05-2009, 03:20
Did they change the charging rules from:

Declare charge
Wheel charging unit to maximize number of models in btb contact, after free wheel to align at end of charge move
Free Wheel to align units in btb

Given the single wheel to contact (discount the free wheel as that move isn't measured) you will measure like this:

Scenario 1: Enemy unit is directly ahead of at least one of the models in your unit.
A) Measure from nearest* model. If you're out of range the charge fails, if you're in range, note how much distance you have left.
B) Wheel (measuring from farthest model) to align unit and bring more models into Btb contact. This wheel will stop when your models are aligned such that moving directly ahead will bring the maximum number of models into btb, or when you have wheeled as far as the remaining charge distance as measured in step A. Note, this step is only needed during the measuring for failed charges step if the target unit wishes to stand and shoot and the half charge range distance is in doubt.

Scenario 2: Enemy is positioned such that no model in your unit can move straight forward and contact the unit.
A) Wheel until at least one model in the unit has the target unit directly ahead. Note that you technically should not actually move the unit at this point, since you're measuring to see the the charge fails, but the wheel should be simulated and measured.
B) continue measuring from Step A in Scenario 1 above, remember to deduct the wheel measured in the previous step.

*You have to maximize models in btb contact, but zero models due to failed charge is always less than 1.

Lord Dan
01-05-2009, 03:30
This isn't 40K where you measure to see if you have distance and just line the units up. You measure out the charge starting with any necessary wheels. If that takes up 2 inches, you wheel 2 inches and deduct that from you total movement allotment. Your "free wheel" happens when the units touch, and the charging unit pivots on the point that made contact to get into combat.

Using this formula you're forced to measure starting with the furthest model.

Kalandros
01-05-2009, 03:33
You can measure from the closest point if you can reach the enemy that way, because you can align with a free wheel - of course this has to be a legal charge, maximizing models before reaching the enemy.

Lord Dan
01-05-2009, 03:40
maximizing models before reaching the enemy.

Which might require you wheel beforehand, which takes up movement on the outside of the unit (not the closest point), so be sure to do that ahead of time.

Cats Laughing
01-05-2009, 03:49
1 model is still more than 0 for a failed charge, so you would measure from the closest if the target unit is directly ahead, then use any left over charge range to wheel to bring more into combat.

Measuring from the farthest model in all cases will lead to occasional failed charges, which is not maximizing models in btb.

If the target is not directly ahead then you would measure a wheel from the farthest model(outside model on the wheel), until the target is directly ahead of one model in your unit, then measure from that model (which will be the nearest model), to determine if the charge fails or not. Any additional charge range would be used to continue wheeling to get more models into btb, and would be measured from the farthest model(outside model of the wheel) but would never be enough to fail the charge at this point.

Nurgling Chieftain
01-05-2009, 04:12
In short, the question is very difficult to answer directly, as you can see above. Basically, given the basic restraints of a single pre-contact wheel and otherwise straight-forward movement, if the charging models can possibly reach, the charge is successful.

They do have to wheel to maximize models in contact on both sides, but that rule cannot by itself prevent the charge from being successful. So, for example, if the only way they can reach their target is by moving straight forward with no wheeling before contact, they do so. (Any post-contact movement - typically wheeling to align - also does not count as movement allowance towards whether the charge is successful.) The results of such an angled-barely-made-it charge is one of the more common situations where discussions of clipping versus sliding etc. come into conversation!

Mercules
01-05-2009, 04:23
Solution - Mark Start location.

Move unit like you would otherwise with the restriction of 1 wheel.

If you contact the charged unit, you have charged. If not reset to the start, try again until you are sure you can't, then reset and move only Move distance instead of 2x Move.

Just measuring won't do it since You can't "measure" a wheel without performing it, or doing some complex mathematics.

01-05-2009, 04:55
As long as you can get at least 1 model in close combat, the charge succeeds. If applicable, you can use a free wheel after you have used all your movement to get into combat.

Cats Laughing
01-05-2009, 05:23
Just measuring won't do it since You can't "measure" a wheel without performing it, or doing some complex mathematics.

Yeah you can.

All you need is a straight edge the length of the front of your unit, any piece of paper will do. Put that in front of the unit, and move it as if the unit is wheeling until the straight edge is at an angle that would allow straight forward movement to bring it into contact with the target. Measure distance moved, and distance to target. Technically performing the wheel, but without moving the unit.

You can build a wheel template to get more accurate measurements on the wheel, since you shouldn't measure a straight line from the corner of the unit to the corner of the straight edge.

Mercules
01-05-2009, 13:18
Wheel Templates work, until you run into an Odd sized unit. This is why I don't have movement trays yet. I would have to build several different ones since I tend to grow and shrink certain unit frontages as needed, such as my Gnoblars. It isn't always 5 wide or 10 wide for them either. I turn, expand frontage by 5. So that is 9 wide, unless I've lost a rank, or already done a turn and expanded frontage by 5 once recently, then I end up with 7 or 8. No I don't move 20+ models by hand, I use the Regiment bases and have lots of spare Gnoblars on 2x1 or 1x1 bases.

So I would need a Template with various length units marked upon it. Hmmmm.... Maybe that would be a handy thing to make though. I could then sell it.

theunwantedbeing
01-05-2009, 13:44
You can easily make a usable wheel template.
Just draw a line on some paper, mark off each 20mm and 25mm point.
Then use a compass to draw the edge of a circle joining the line at each point.

You only really need to go as far as 20cm as units are rarely going to be wider than this.

To use it simply place it next to the unit, with the curved lines at the edge that wants to wheel. You measure the wheel using your tape measure by putting it alongside the appropriate line and measuring the distance you want to travel along that line.

The only tricky bit of making the template is finding a compass to draw the curved lines!

W0lf
01-05-2009, 13:51
So to clarify its from the furthest point?

If so i was cheated out of my vamp counts win -.-

theunwantedbeing
01-05-2009, 14:00
Yes, the furthest point effectively.
You wheel around the outside model, not the middle of the unit, and you certainly dont pivot the entire unit on its centre!

It does say this in the rules for wheeling on page 12&13 of the rulebook.
It clarifies that you may wheel once during a charge on page 21 of the rulebook.

You were cheated.

EvC
01-05-2009, 14:29
I'm having a hard time seeing what you're asking. Every model in the entire unit moves exactly the same amount during a charge, the nearest model, the furthest model, the central model, whatever. If any of those models can make it in, then it's a successful charge.

W0lf
01-05-2009, 14:30
Wicked as it was the dodgyest charge ever.

He charged through 3 spawn (they moved before moving charges) when he could see through the tinyest gap ever and measured from the nearest pt (which was like 0.1 inch in and the furthest was like 11" away (8 wide chaos warriors).

Oh well ill take it out my sig and demand a rematch (was onyl a friendly anyway, he was using my own WoC models and is a good mate.).

Oh well that means my unbeaten streak marches onward, yay.

Oh and many thanks unwanted for your help :)

edit: you what EVC?

Gazak Blacktoof
01-05-2009, 14:49
As long as you can get at least 1 model in close combat, the charge succeeds. If applicable, you can use a free wheel after you have used all your movement to get into combat.

That's very, very wrong. If you make it into contact you make a free wheel to align the units, formign a battle line.

The charge has to be completed (models from opposing sides touching) before you make your free wheel.

selone
01-05-2009, 15:25
I don't think its the furthest point in all cases. You measure the amount needed to get a model into base to base and then you get a free wheel assuming you made into into combat. In case where just directly moving forwards would get a model into combat and then you'd get the free wheel you'd measure from the closest.

EvC
01-05-2009, 15:44
Wicked as it was the dodgyest charge ever.

He charged through 3 spawn (they moved before moving charges) when he could see through the tinyest gap ever and measured from the nearest pt (which was like 0.1 inch in and the furthest was like 11" away (8 wide chaos warriors).

That sounds like you played it exactly right. As long as he moved the unit directly forwards and the closest parts touched, then the charge is successful and then the free align lets the rest of the unit swing around into the fight.

Funny to see you grasping at straws to avoid having to put a loss in your all-important win-record, which says it all really... you may be right to question this, it does sound weird, we probably can't be sure without a diagram.

vorthrax
01-05-2009, 16:03
The way I understand it, there are two possible wheels in a charge:

The charging unit is restricted to one wheel during the charge. This wheel is included in the measurement of the charge.

Then, one "free" wheel is allowed (and usually required) once the charging unit comes into contact with the charged unit in order to align the front of the charging unit to the front/side/rear of the charged unit.

...right?

EDIT: As to where to measure from, it's the same as any other move isn't it? You measure from the front of the charging unit in a straight line ahead. Measure the "restricted to one" wheel as normal. Any part of the front rank of the charging unit coming into contact with any part of the charged unit counts as a sucessful charge. Don't measure the "free" wheel at the end.

selone
01-05-2009, 16:05
Thats what I understand as well vorthrax

01-05-2009, 16:25
That's very, very wrong. If you make it into contact you make a free wheel to align the units, formign a battle line.

The charge has to be completed (models from opposing sides touching) before you make your free wheel.
Oops, I see my post is ambiguous. I meant exactly what you said. You can make a free wheel, but only after you have used all your movement to get into close combat. 'to get into combat' is attached to movement, not to the free wheel.

So I don't understand why the charge was illegitimate. If at least one model could reach you, the charge was successful. After the successful charge, he was allowed a free wheel.

enyoss
01-05-2009, 18:07
W0lf, the charge you describe actually sounds like it was legal. You do not have to wheel to bring more models into contact if by doing so you would not be able to complete the charge. In your opponent's case, it sounds that by wheeling to maximise frontage the charge would have been out.

It's all quite straight forward though really. Just move the charge like you would do any other move (but with at most one wheel of course). If you touch the opponent, it's in. If you can, you must maximise the number of models which can fight.

HellRaid
01-05-2009, 21:37
The way I interpret the rules, you wheel first of all so that your unit is pointing at the enemy unit - this wheel is not free and is deducted from your movement allotment as normal. You then measure the remainder of the distance of the charge from your closest model directly forwards to the first enemy contact, and if you're in range, move directly forward until your first model hits an enemy model's base. At this point you get a free wheel to bring yourself into alignment with your enemy (meaning that the furthest model can technically move slightly further than its maximum charge range).

You can obviously wheel more than this (taking distance off your move as normal) in order to avoid obstacles and so on, but generally it's not necessary.

Mercules
01-05-2009, 21:50
The way I interpret the rules, you wheel first of all so that your unit is pointing at the enemy unit - this wheel is not free and is deducted from your movement allotment as normal. You then measure the remainder of the distance of the charge from your closest model directly forwards to the first enemy contact, and if you're in range, move directly forward until your first model hits an enemy model's base. At this point you get a free wheel to bring yourself into alignment with your enemy (meaning that the furthest model can technically move slightly further than its maximum charge range).

You can obviously wheel more than this (taking distance off your move as normal) in order to avoid obstacles and so on, but generally it's not necessary.

SOOOOOOO wrong.... :)

You don't have to wheel to start movement. You can go straight ahead and then wheel to line up on the opponent. You can only ever wheel ONCE during a charge move. Even Fast Cavalry with their odd moves can only Wheel once and can not reform. models that pivot instead of wheeling can only make ONE pivot during a charge.

Sorry Wolf, but it 'sounds' legal. If he only wheeled/pivoted once and measured the wheel(pivots cost nothing) and the distance he MOVED(not distance between units) and one model of his unit came into contact with a model of the charged unit, he succeeded.

enyoss
01-05-2009, 22:03
You don't have to wheel to start movement.

Kind of :). If you have enough movement, you must wheel if means you get more models which can fight. If you don't have enough, then you have to clip to some extent. A necessary evil in this case...

Mercules
01-05-2009, 22:08
Right, but when the wheel happens isn't locked, which is what was implied in that other post.

Cats Laughing
02-05-2009, 00:12
Hmmmm, so you're no longer forced to wheel at the beginning of your charge move and can wheel around terrain (assuming LOS for declaration)...

That's an interesting change from 6th(5th?)

alextroy
02-05-2009, 01:33
Yes, you do not need to wheel at the beginning of your move, but you didn't need to in 6th Edition either.

Cats Laughing
02-05-2009, 01:52
Gah, I'm really mixing up editions then.

Da GoBBo
02-05-2009, 19:43
You can wheel as much or as little as you want, provided you try to get your models to contact as many enemy models as possible.

Actually this is not really true. Wheeling is only allowed if it gets more models into contact. It can not be used to pick out certain models in the unit you charge. This might happen if you charge a very wide unit for instance and the shortest route would not take you into contact with a mage for instance. Wheeling (further) so you can hit the mage is not allowed if you allready maximized the number of models.

1 model is still more than 0 for a failed charge, so you would measure from the closest if the target unit is directly ahead, then use any left over charge range to wheel to bring more into combat.

This is indeed the best way to measure most charges. Trial and error as described by Mercules is not needed when you do it like this. Example, the 2 closest edges of the 2 units are 6" apart, you can charge 8", this gives you 2"to use during a wheel. Note that this only really works when wheeling at start of your chargemove since wheeling during your charge is the same as running around a corner, which is of course a longer route.

W0lf, I got the idea you don't really know how to perform a charge at all, so I'll add a picture as well for a charging unit with M4

Chipacabra
02-05-2009, 20:30
Nonsense. There's no restriction that a charge has to be the shortest possible distance. A charge move has only two restrictions over normal movement: You may only wheel once during the movement (not counting the alignment after contact) and you must contact as many people as possible.

Also, your diagram is faulty. You start the units 6" apart, then have the charging unit wheel towards the other unit, but then you treat them as if they are somehow still 6" apart. Geometry doesn't work like that.

The thing to remember is that there's no absolute 'charge range'. You just move. If you can move far enough to touch, then your charge is successful. Just use the normal movement rules.

Da GoBBo
03-05-2009, 14:19
You are right about the diagram, its not just faulty but completely off. Sorry about that. In fact, the charging unit should be able to get all its models in combat. Shame on me for pestering you with such a disgracefull pic.

About the first remark, it is a bit of ruleslawyering (a lot actually, and I dont play by the letter of the rules in this case), but there is no nonsense there. Wheeling is only allowed during a charge if it brings more models in combat.

EvC
03-05-2009, 14:47
The FAQ clarifies that tactical wheeling is certainly allowed.

Da GoBBo
03-05-2009, 15:24
Ah ok, I guess that changes things. We just use the rulebook, can't be bothered with all those minor changes all the books need. Allthough the brb is clear on the fact that it is not allowed, I'm glad it is changed because it didn't really make sense.

Caine Mangakahia
03-05-2009, 22:31
I'm pretty sure that you measure the charge from the closest models in each unit, in other words, its the shortest distance the charging unit (from closest model in unit a to the closest model in unit B) has to travel to touch the other unit. Once the units touch you get a "free" wheel to alighn the units, effectivly putting the furthest models into contact.
The only restriction I know of is you have to attempt to bring as many models into the combat as possible wheeling if nessesary (there may be an exemption if this will cause you to fail a charge I'm not sure).

Chipacabra
03-05-2009, 22:37
No, no, no, no, no. You don't measure closest to closest, or furthest to closest, or anything like that. You don't measure from one unit to the other at all! You just move. That's all! The same movement rules you've been using all game. If you have enough movement to touch, it works, if you don't, the charge fails. That's all.

Loq-Gor
03-05-2009, 23:14
Uh...no. You have to measure from one unit to the other, in which case you use the closest two points. This happens because the wheel is included specifically to bring as many models as possible into the combat. If you just move then you may have wheeled to far and fail or too little and not bring enough models into contact. Measuring from the furthest point puts you in the position that you might wheel farther than is strictly necessary. So declare charges, declare reactions, compulsory movement (which according to the faq can involve movements that should they not go your way will make charges invalid, so spawn ploy works), measure to see if chargers can make it (page 20 Move Chargers it says measure).

I use an extending pointer for this as it allows me to change the length to fit the unit's frontage. I simply measure the closest distance and determine how much distance I have left to wheel. Then the rod is placed before the unit one end stays with the unit, the other moves the wheel. It's not perfect but it works for my group, and wheeling isn't ever perfect anyway.

Chipacabra
03-05-2009, 23:50
Uh...no. You have to measure from one unit to the other, in which case you use the closest two points. This happens because the wheel is included specifically to bring as many models as possible into the combat. If you just move then you may have wheeled to far and fail or too little and not bring enough models into contact. Measuring from the furthest point puts you in the position that you might wheel farther than is strictly necessary. So declare charges, declare reactions, compulsory movement (which according to the faq can involve movements that should they not go your way will make charges invalid, so spawn ploy works), measure to see if chargers can make it (page 20 Move Chargers it says measure).

I use an extending pointer for this as it allows me to change the length to fit the unit's frontage. I simply measure the closest distance and determine how much distance I have left to wheel. Then the rod is placed before the unit one end stays with the unit, the other moves the wheel. It's not perfect but it works for my group, and wheeling isn't ever perfect anyway.

But the measuring isn't just comparing two distances. You measure charge movement the same way you measure all movement. If it's a borderline case, then leave the unit in place and measure with a piece of paper or something. But don't just draw a straight line and call it good. That is clearly wrong. If you just measure closest models, then it's possible to charge too far. It's possible, for example, for the closest model in your unit to be exactly 8" away from the closest model in the enemy unit, but moving in a straight line won't bring you in contact. By your method, the charge would be legal because you measured 8", but it would cause you to move MORE than 8" when you include the wheel. The charge should fail, because there's no way to move 8" and still contact the enemy.

Da GoBBo
03-05-2009, 23:55
As Chipacabra pointed out before this is not the case Loq-Gor. Wheeling towards a unit will also close the gap a bit, this is where the free wheel kicks in. I will alter the picture I drawed the other day. This alteration will clearly show why measuring the closest points and using leftovers for wheeling is not the way to go.

Hmm, its probably an 8" wheel in the pic below, but its the principle that counts.

edit: For completeness, I'd like to point out that the first diagram in the pic below is faulty because, as Chipacabra pointed out, the "6 inch directly forward is not 6 inch anymore but a a little less because of the first wheel. If, after wheeling 2 inch, the new distance between the units is indeed 6 inch, the diagram would be correct because wheeling allways takes (a little) more space than moving directly forward.

W0lf
04-05-2009, 00:24
Ok i got it now. I was always under the impression that it was from the centre.. have no idea why.

Funny to see you grasping at straws to avoid having to put a loss in your all-important win-record, which says it all really... you may be right to question this, it does sound weird, we probably can't be sure without a diagram.

Not really as we all ready agreed it would stay as a loss. The charge didnt cost me the game...

more me failing gem of blood (which would have killed his stubborn bsb and broke him), my lord miscasting twice and losing 2 lvls and a tactical error that saw my 2 hero vamps + 20 ghouls flank the chaos warriors in combat... do no wounds and lose both vampires.

Da GoBBo
04-05-2009, 00:36
Ok i got it now. I was always under the impression that it was from the centre.. have no idea why.

Ah yes, thats pivoting, which is used for single models (lone characters, lone -ridden- monsters and chariots). Pivoting is free and can be done ones during a charge, just like wheeling. The free wheel at the end (also called alligning) is additional.

EvC
04-05-2009, 01:55
more me failing gem of blood (which would have killed his stubborn bsb and broke him), my lord miscasting twice and losing 2 lvls and a tactical error that saw my 2 hero vamps + 20 ghouls flank the chaos warriors in combat... do no wounds and lose both vampires.

Heh, you must have accidentally picked up my dice a little while back (I had a game just like that recently, also against Warriors, also with Gem of Blood failing, miscasting horribly, while my opponent just gatewayed me over and over and over)...

Loq-Gor
04-05-2009, 02:52
OK I see where we are getting confused, or rather where I was confused. I, for some reason known only to the great god of brain farts, kept picturing that the corner of the charging unit was the closest point in all cases. That is obviously patently false. My apologies. I also spent quite a while trying to figure out how to explain this only to see that my description only works when the two units can line up flush. So bearing that in mind I will sit down and try to figure out what I meant, because I know it made sense somehow.

Godgolden
04-05-2009, 03:20
the latest picture is not entirely wrong, just adding more movement for some bizzard reason.

the charging unit moves straight forward 6 inches, contact with 1/2 models then auto shimmys to bring the most models into contact

Chipacabra
04-05-2009, 05:29
You're killing me.

No, charging straight forward and then sliding sideways into place is wrong. The horizontal slide is an OPTIONAL rule only, and even if you're using it, it shouldn't be used all the time.

WusteGeist
04-05-2009, 06:31
ARGH!!!!!!
Listen all of you fools.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE WHEEL. You must pay for every inch of the charge, you may make one wheel at any point during the charge. You still must pay for that wheel. The only thing that is free is maximizing, also known as clipping. For the love of all that is unholy stop calling it a free wheel, as there is no such thing not in this edition and not in all of 6th.

Chipacabra
04-05-2009, 06:43
Well, the alignment after contact made is free.

I don't know what in the world you're talking about as far as free maximizing being called clipping. Clipping isn't any type of movement at all, it's just a word for when there's no room to line up properly and a small contact is all that's possible. Did you mean to say alignment instead of clipping?

Lord Dan
04-05-2009, 07:21
the charging unit moves straight forward 6 inches, contact with 1/2 models then auto shimmys to bring the most models into contact

Not if you're using the 7th edition rulebook. ;)

Da GoBBo
04-05-2009, 10:10
the charging unit moves straight forward 6 inches, contact with 1/2 models then auto shimmys to bring the most models into contact

I'm really sorry, but this is very very much not true at all. In fact, moves don't get more illegal than this :) Please check page 21 where it says units "can and indeed must wheel in order to maximise the number if models able to fight". Nowhere do the rules allow you to shimmy and I can't think of any situation where it would be allowed.

ARGH!!!!!!
Listen all of you fools.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE WHEEL.

I stand corrected, the official term is alligning, which is a free move (page 21). We allways call it a free wheel because the unit does in fact make a wheel when maximising and, well, its a free move.

EvC
04-05-2009, 13:36
Ahh, good old clipping vs sliding :D

Suffice to say Godgolden is pretty much completely wrong. In that last diagram, the charger would wheel as much as he could, then move into contact with the enemy, trying to get as many models in as he could. If he can't, then he and his opponent would be free to slide across either unit if they agreed, but if not, then they'd be stuck with however many as were possible.

Godgolden
04-05-2009, 14:54
i guess i fail to see the reason to wheel when the end result is the same.

funny how completely wrong equals same result...

Ravenousone2
04-05-2009, 14:56
no its not farthest point if you have a unit w/ frenzy and they can only get the closest model in b2b then it still counts as a legal charge....then free wheel to line up. the 1st wheel just allows u to get more into contact if u have the movement left.

Mercules
04-05-2009, 16:25
i guess i fail to see the reason to wheel when the end result is the same.

funny how completely wrong equals same result...

Because it isn't ALWAYS the same result. Only in that case is it the same. There are many situations when just running straight ahead your full charge range would end up with you only touching a few models in each unit together and a wheel would not bring ANY into contact.

The result then would be for only those couple models being able to swing. This is "clipping" and can't be done by the rules except under specific situations. These situations are hard to produce so you would have to try very hard to create clipping on purpose.

Sliding is an optional rule in the FAQs that is only used by mutual agreement usually at the start of the game.

As for my "trial and error" method, it works.

Da GoBBo
04-05-2009, 18:13
Yes, your trial and error method is indeed the best method when a lot of wheeling is involved. Its just using common sense when performing your chargemove. Most of the time measuring from the furthest point is sufficient. As for completely wrong equals same result, its just not true because a move like that is not allowed by the rulebook.