PDA

View Full Version : Square Based daemons!



hendybadger
01-05-2009, 13:52
I am just starting a dual project.
Part 1 ) Iyanden Eldar
Part 2 ) Tzeentch daemons.

This will end me with 3 40K forces but no WHFB armies.
Unless.... I square base the Tzeentch daemons.

Would you play 40k against an army of Daemons on square bases?
Yes , No , Why?

I know this has been discused in the past but i wanted personnal opinions

mattjgilbert
01-05-2009, 13:55
There is no issue putting them on square bases. Many people do, myself included.

However.... I have my larger models on square bases. Those "rank & file" models which will fit onto a movement tray I have used round bases on. The movement tray does the "squaring up" for me :)

x-esiv-4c
01-05-2009, 14:07
I really wouldn't care.

satanslandlady
01-05-2009, 14:07
In 40k? Some times there will be issues. I had to take all my daemons off square bases and put them on round ones (bought them pre-assembled on ebay).

yabbadabba
01-05-2009, 14:10
In 40k? Some times there will be issues. I had to take all my daemons off square bases and put them on round ones (bought them pre-assembled on ebay).
Why? How?
No probs from me, go ahead.

Bookwrak
01-05-2009, 14:17
The only types of players who will take issue with daemons on square bases are the ones not worth playing anyway.

satanslandlady
01-05-2009, 14:18
Why? How?
No probs from me, go ahead.

It was for a megabattle. How? Well I bought round bases and cut them off their square ones. I would think it would work more to your disadvantage to have square bases since they have more surface area (it can actually make a different on template weapons being used on you).

pookie
01-05-2009, 14:37
The only types of players who will take issue with daemons on square bases are the ones not worth playing anyway.

Ditto,

it'd take a fairly anal retentative person to complain.

Grimtuff
01-05-2009, 14:39
It was for a megabattle. How? Well I bought round bases and cut them off their square ones. I would think it would work more to your disadvantage to have square bases since they have more surface area (it can actually make a different on template weapons being used on you).

Both the square and round bases that (lesser) Daemons are supplied with are 25mm.

@OP: Please do a search next time. This has come up so often is it not even funny.

incarna
01-05-2009, 14:49
Put them on round bases and glue magnets to the bottom. Then, get square bases and glue magnets to the bottom of them. Place the round base on top of the square base and the model will be slightly elevated but on a square base.

www.amazingmagnets.com

satanslandlady
01-05-2009, 14:54
Both the square and round bases that (lesser) Daemons are supplied with are 25mm.

Yes if you bought them in the box but I said i bought them on ebay. A circle base has less AREA than a square one... you can do the math but it's quite obvious if you stick them on top of each other the corners are adding extra :eyebrows:

incarna
01-05-2009, 15:00
In casual play most people wouldnít have an issue but satanslandlady is right.

In competitive play, such as a tournament, the cornerís add additional surface area that can effect the outcome of a game. While you might catch some disadvantage when it comes to template weapons being shot at you and even measuring range for shooting attacks, when it comes to charging, a diagonal charge will have a marginal advantage over a direct charge.

I personally wouldnít have a problem with it but letís take the question a step further. How would you feel if someone arrived with a corn berserker army mounted on square bases with the corner of the square base pointing directly forward? I think Iíd have a little problem with that and itís probably best to just avoid the issue and use my magnet suggestion.

Bookwrak
01-05-2009, 15:45
I would have an extraordinarily hard time saying the the square bases have any noticeable chance of affecting the outcome of a game.

satanslandlady
01-05-2009, 16:00
Well it could and it could not. If I have a unit that can't make the range to assault then yes it will be a big deal especially with most daemons. Sometimes it does come up when you're close yet not quite though this is rarer. Template weapons it will make a big difference for that unit. Many times I've had models saved by mere millimeters. It can be the difference between loosing 4 vs 6 and if you really wanted those models and needed them... well it will hurt you (hello screamers vs tanks).
The point mainly is you can run into situations where the tournament will require you to have appropriate bases.

As a note it was not entertaining in anyway to remove 30 bloodletters, 3 screamers, 10 daemonettes etc etc from their bases to transfer them to circular ones. Rules were rules though and if that's how it's played then that's how it's played. I guess you can use trays for fantasy if you feel like it so it's not like you're limiting yourself.

Grimtuff
01-05-2009, 16:05
The point mainly is you can run into situations where the tournament will require you to have appropriate bases.

Rulebook says "Bases they are supplied with". They are supplied with both. Apart from the issue of aestetics, there really is not one.

Also, what tournament? Tournaments can make up whatever rules they want, there are no guidelines for their rules. I could ban all armies painted red if I ran one for example.

satanslandlady
01-05-2009, 16:25
Ok well here for example
http://battleforgegames.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/faq-version-102.pdf
Not my gaming store but question 14 clearly states it. This is in texas. I'm in massachusetts so I think there is some understand somewhere that they should be based by the system they're in. I mean if you want to argue a loophole go ahead but I'd rather be painting. Painted figures also being a requirement in every tournament I've gone to. Not sure if that's in the rule book though I don't know it cover to cover.

popisdead
01-05-2009, 17:47
the new LotR movement trays solves your problems.

Grey Man
01-05-2009, 18:03
Casual play: not a problem, I'd gladly play you.
Casual tournament: I'd play you, but would take off painting/modeling points.
Serious tournament with WYSIWG rules: I would not allow those models, and would be seriously irritated if I was asked to play you.

So, it all depends on the setting.

Hlokk
01-05-2009, 18:16
Greyman, surely any tournament where the judge is going to disallow models on slightly different bases just proves one point, that point being the judge is a gimp and should be taken out the back and shot in the face with a firehose full of projectile goat vomit.

WYSIWYG rules would still be ok. Im looking at a tzeench daemon model representing, guess what, a tzeench daemon model.

How is this in any way an issue at all?

yabbadabba
01-05-2009, 18:19
Casual tournament: I'd play you, but would take off painting/modeling points.
Serious tournament with WYSIWG rules: I would not allow those models, and would be seriously irritated if I was asked to play you.

Sorry, I am having a genuine problem understanding why the above reasons?

sprugly
01-05-2009, 18:51
As grimtuff stated, RAW seems to clearly say that the shape of the base is no issue. I personally can find no rule that states that all models must be on circular bases. Just that they should be mounted on the bases supplied.

Also, while the slightly increased area would give a disadvantage (though tiny) when being targeted with template/blast weapons, i don't see how it could possibly give an advantage to movement/assaults.

After all, aren't we supposed to measure from the same point of the base at all times during the movement of a model? And without turning the model round while moveing you could gain no extra distance. (and if you could turn the base then you could gain an inch even with round bases.

But personally even without over thinking this like i just have, i would be happy to play you with any shape base you can think of in any setting.

sprugly

Bookwrak
01-05-2009, 18:57
Sorry, I am having a genuine problem understanding why the above reasons?

There are no reasons. Square bases abide by all of 40K's rules, and are completely irrelevant in terms of WYSIWYG. It's very hard to come up with any scenario where square bases present some sort of problem which doesn't include your opponent being TFG.

Chaos and Evil
01-05-2009, 19:05
Square based Daemon armies would be fine IMO... there's very little mechanical difference in the game.

tristessa
01-05-2009, 19:11
No issues at all. I know a chap who had daemons on square bases at last years GT. He emailed the events team in advance and they were fine with it.

decker_cky
01-05-2009, 19:48
They're from an alternate dimension, so having 'quirky' bases makes sense in a way.

Bunnahabhain
01-05-2009, 20:38
Every time this comes up, the same answers come up.
99%* of people can't see any problems with it, and that vast majority genuinely have difficulty in seeing what the other 1% are complaining about.

If we contrast this to a question like " do you prefer facing fully painted armies?" where you will get a similar response of 99*% saying yes, but the 1% saying 'No, I'm just a gamer, I don't care what it looks like, we could be using card counters for all I care' at least have an understandable reason for their opinion, even if you don't share it.


* made up, but fairly accurate figure

Angelwing
01-05-2009, 21:14
square bases are fine with me.

Kaihlik
01-05-2009, 21:29
Other than I think that it doesnt really look right when playing 40k (dont know why, it just doesn't sit right in my head) I dont have a problem with playing against it.

Biggest difference is during a deepstrike which happens alot in a daemon army where arraying around the centre model puts 8 guys in b2b whereas with round bases its only 6. It is really a disadvantage now that there is no partials and thus you get 9 hits from a small blast, there was more of a problem when the square bases turned the results of a direct hit from 7 hits into 1 hit and 8 partials.

Grimtuff
01-05-2009, 22:26
Other than I think that it doesnt really look right when playing 40k (dont know why, it just doesn't sit right in my head) I dont have a problem with playing against it.

Biggest difference is during a deepstrike which happens alot in a daemon army where arraying around the centre model puts 8 guys in b2b whereas with round bases its only 6. It is really a disadvantage now that there is no partials and thus you get 9 hits from a small blast, there was more of a problem when the square bases turned the results of a direct hit from 7 hits into 1 hit and 8 partials.

All of this is assuming they do not opt to run on the turn they land. ;)

chromedog
01-05-2009, 23:27
I think the people who do have issues with square bases in 40k weren't playing in RT, when we had square, round and hexagonal bases and it was all good.

Most infantry had round bases. Large creatures (like wraithlords/warwalkers and ogryns) had 40mm square bases and flight stands were hexes.

I've got no problem with square bases in 40k. My wraithlords are still on their 40mm square 'monster' bases and no-one has told me to rebase them yet (well no-one whose opinion I care about.).

Corrode
01-05-2009, 23:46
I think the people who do have issues with square bases in 40k weren't playing in RT, when we had square, round and hexagonal bases and it was all good.

Most infantry had round bases. Large creatures (like wraithlords/warwalkers and ogryns) had 40mm square bases and flight stands were hexes.

I've got no problem with square bases in 40k. My wraithlords are still on their 40mm square 'monster' bases and no-one has told me to rebase them yet (well no-one whose opinion I care about.).

This is actually a good point, I didn't start that long ago (mid-3rd edition, so 2001ish maybe?) and even I remember things like Wraithlords and Dreadnoughts wandering around with square bases. It really shouldn't be an issue.

Bathawk
02-05-2009, 01:22
the new LotR movement trays solves your problems.

Yeah was waiting for someoen to mention this...guess it depends on whatever you play more Fantasy of 40k, I myself plan on using round bases with LotR trays

decker_cky
02-05-2009, 01:47
This is actually a good point, I didn't start that long ago (mid-3rd edition, so 2001ish maybe?) and even I remember things like Wraithlords and Dreadnoughts wandering around with square bases. It really shouldn't be an issue.

Most cavalry/bikes still operate with rectangular bases.

Rioghan Murchadha
02-05-2009, 04:33
Yeah was waiting for someoen to mention this...guess it depends on whatever you play more Fantasy of 40k, I myself plan on using round bases with LotR trays

Only problem with the LotR trays is that the infantry tray is bigger than the small GW movement trays that fit 8 25mm square based troops. You end up with a larger unit footprint, and because the models are divided, you have base-to-base issues in combat.

Pink Horror
02-05-2009, 06:43
Biggest difference is during a deepstrike which happens alot in a daemon army where arraying around the centre model puts 8 guys in b2b whereas with round bases its only 6. It is really a disadvantage now that there is no partials and thus you get 9 hits from a small blast, there was more of a problem when the square bases turned the results of a direct hit from 7 hits into 1 hit and 8 partials.

Couldn't you circle them around corner-to-corner? I don't think they have to be perfectly aligned. You just place them in a circle. The direction they face is up to you, as long as they touch.