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darkace77450
01-05-2009, 21:54
I'm sure many of you already know that GW hobby center staff members have enough to do for their paltry minimum wage, but now their duties just got a lot bigger.

We already know GW is targeting little kids, but to offer to build tank and Valkyrie models for them now just to get them to buy the big expensive toys is a bit too much. The staff is going to be overwhelmed with this new responsibility (from the business side) and we move one step closer to the pre-painted models (from the hobby side).

Do you guys think this is a good or bad move by GW?

devilchild
01-05-2009, 22:23
A brilliant sales idea from GW,

There are plenty of parents that buy presents fo their kids, but dont wish to spend the time to help the child make his new land raider/stompa/whatever!


However in my opinion the child loses out on an important part of the hobby- get their fingers stuck together for the 20th time that day;)

darkace77450
01-05-2009, 22:27
A brilliant sales idea from GW,

There are plenty of parents that buy presents fo their kids, but dont wish to spend the time to help the child make his new land raider/stompa/whatever!


However in my opinion the child loses out on an important part of the hobby- get their fingers stuck together for the 20th time that day;)

Its exactly this lack of blood, sweat, and tears that makes it easier for that child to move on to the next thing that catches his attention. The more you put into your hobby, the more you appreciate it. The more you appreciate something, the less likely you are to walk away from it. Or at least that's how I see it.

Yarick Zan
01-05-2009, 22:30
A brilliant sales idea from GW,

There are plenty of parents that buy presents fo their kids, but dont wish to spend the time to help the child make his new land raider/stompa/whatever!


However in my opinion the child loses out on an important part of the hobby- get their fingers stuck together for the 20th time that day;)

Even adults still do that.....see my project log in my signature. Especially the parts where I got my glue.

CaliforniaGamer
01-05-2009, 22:44
Are they building any of the big mulitpart kits or just select ones?

I find this intriguing...

penguin663
01-05-2009, 22:47
Wait I'm confused. Where is your evidence for this, for all we know you could be making this up?

The closest thing I have been able to find is the staff in my local are offering to help you build them on realese day, undercoat and spray them in a select few colours. Which to be honest is a pretty nice thing for them to do.

JLBeady
02-05-2009, 03:29
The US GW stores are running a "you buy it, we build it" promotion. It's legit. According to the red shirt I talked to he said it is good for any one unit (not a whole battle force or boxed army). They will cut, clean mold lines, and assemble it to your specifications assuming it is a standard configuration. No conversions allowed.

Nephilim of Sin
02-05-2009, 03:47
This. Is. Awesome. The best idea GW has come up with. Honestly, read some of the threads on 'You you pay me to paint'...etc...and you will see some people actually saying they would pay for things to be built for them.

Cleaning and building can be tedious, but it helps some hobbyist and is nowhere near as time consuming as painting. This is brilliant.

New Cult King
02-05-2009, 04:34
However in my opinion the child loses out on an important part of the hobby- get their fingers stuck together for the 20th time that day;)

Or get their finger stuck to their nose. Um. Not that I've ever done this myself.

*cough*

BigRob
02-05-2009, 05:11
Why do I see an image of a horde of kids turning up at GW for a game with a baneblade splodged in Ultramarines blue backing up their space marine army that the staff helped them pck out.

Personally I think its a good idea but it takes away from the "hobby" part of the hobby. Sometimes I'd like GW to make prepaints, since for me, gaming is the main action, I can't paint very well at all, however I am getting better and nothing looks better than opening a new box and trying out the different options. I've just brought a new box of Nobz for my space orks and there are so many good options I just don't know which ones to put on the models.

Lord Humongous
02-05-2009, 05:50
I'd personally much rather assemble my own models.... and then have somebody else paint them! I've actually met people who say they hate assembling models, but none seem willing to trade assembly work for painting.

DarthFreder
02-05-2009, 05:50
Its exactly this lack of blood, sweat, and tears that makes it easier for that child to move on to the next thing that catches his attention. The more you put into your hobby, the more you appreciate it. The more you appreciate something, the less likely you are to walk away from it. Or at least that's how I see it.

Amen and agree 100%!

zedeyejoe
02-05-2009, 05:59
I like the idea. I did used to make kits when I was 10 or so but I always messed them up and was disappointed with them even then. Children have standards too.

darkace77450
02-05-2009, 06:09
The US GW stores are running a "you buy it, we build it" promotion. It's legit. According to the red shirt I talked to he said it is good for any one unit (not a whole battle force or boxed army). They will cut, clean mold lines, and assemble it to your specifications assuming it is a standard configuration. No conversions allowed.

Its also on their website. It says any tank or the Valkyrie qualifies if purchased up until early/mid May. I assumed that they would just clip the main parts out and slap them together with glue. The "cut, clean mold lines, and assemble it to your specifications" part is going to be brutal for the staff.

I don't know how GW expects they will have time to do this if it is as successful as they want it to be. Perhaps they are expecting the staff to take these things home and work on them in their spare time? :eyebrows:

ToXin
02-05-2009, 06:35
While I understand those who say that making models is part of their hobby, I have thousands of models myself and prefer the building / painting to playing games!, this is all about MAKING MONEY. A business does not consider the moral aspect of who, how, when models are prepared and painted, as long as they left the shelf as a sale.

The staff will not be expected to do this to the detriment of the main function for their employment, nor to 'take them home'... absolute nonsense. "Customer specification" can be translated as "which gun would you like to select to be stuck on, Sir?" and there will either be a que or a come back later philosophy.

Also, consider how many people will want to do their own thing and enjoy clipping building and glueing themselves. Assistance is available for all inexperienced modellers with their purchases, the release of a new model is purely promotion to this aspect of the GW stores and reminds people that if they are intimidated by larger kits help is available.... remember, it's about the sales.

Harry
02-05-2009, 07:06
Why do folks always see the negative side?

Kids are going to want the big tanks or valks or whatever regardless of their ability to build it.
If the parent or the child are going to spend that much on a model is it not a wonderful service to offer a very well made model to customers.

Some folks are just not interested in modelling and painting they want to Wargame.
Thats why professional painting services exist!
I have seen members here with sigs offering to build Baneblades and forgeworld models.

Perfect for parents that do not feel they have the skills to help their children. (We didn't all grow up on Airfix kits ... although I did. :D) or for children for whom the kit is too advanced.

Surely better that they can own and enjoy the model rather than have something they are too embarrassed to put on the table due to the ammount of glue running down the outside of the model and fingerprints melted into the pieces?

Don't get me wrong everyone has got to start somewhere. You should have seen some of my first airfix kits. But surely better children work on cheaper more easily assembled kits whilst their skills develop? Better than they get in such a pickle with a big kit that either they decide the hobby is not for them OR Mum decides she is not wasting that much money on something if little billy is going to make such a mess of it.

What would be especially cool would be if staff were sitting down with youngsters and helping them build them. Showing them how to clean the mould lines and helping them put the kits together so the child got some sence of achievement and his confidence and skills grew at the side of a good teacher.

Yes I know this should be the job of a parent BUT 1) Not all children are lucky enough to have Dad on the scene. 2) Not all children are lucky enough to have a Dad that gives them this sort of time. 3) Not all children are lucky enough to have a Dad with the skills and interest to help them with this sort of activity. (Apologies to all mums out there happily involved in this activity).

Yes it will shift more models I imagine.

But anything that encourages and supports more people in the hobby has got to be a good thing.

I say 'Bravo!'
What a great offer for those who want to take advantage.

Not so great for the over worked and underpaid store staff but ....

Everyone needs good teachers.

C-Coen
02-05-2009, 07:10
Somebody has a new Ogre Scraplauncher, not build yet?
Lets see whether they manage to build that thing...

Chaplain Mortez
02-05-2009, 07:25
Don't know but I still have about 70 unassembled orks.

If a store offered to assemble these for me, I'd take it so that I could spend more time converting and painting than cleaning and clipping.

Tarax
02-05-2009, 09:05
Its exactly this lack of blood, sweat, and tears that makes it easier for that child to move on to the next thing that catches his attention. The more you put into your hobby, the more you appreciate it. The more you appreciate something, the less likely you are to walk away from it. Or at least that's how I see it.

There's nothing more to say.

Or there is. If a kid is to young to be able to put a tank or other model together he is also to young to play the game. IMO.

freddythebig
02-05-2009, 11:23
I must try this concept with my wife with regard to beer. She buys it and I drink it :angel:

On a serious note, I can understand that there are gamers out there that are not so interested in the modelling or painting side of the hobby, and this would appear to be a good idea for those individuals.
I think that with the move towards 'instant gratification' that is seen in products aimed at younger people these days, anything that may encourage them to continue to game has to be encouraged. At least with this they will have a model that they can game with rather than a half built box of bits sitting in a cupboard somewhere because they have given up on it.

Max Jet
02-05-2009, 13:44
The concept itself is a nice idea and certainly clever. However I have two problems with it.

1. The staff.
They are allready underpaid and overburdened and now they even have to glue your models AND on the top of it file your mold lines away? I pitty them from the deep of my heart. It's not as if they would allready have to be nice to all those extremely loud and hyperactive children (admitted I know some boys only 10 years old that can sit for 5 hours, just painting their models and never ever stepping on someones nerves and who on the top of it are a pleasure to play against!)

2 The learning experience
Of COURSE you screw up your first models and I would categorize even the most detailed model kits of GW as beginners kits. They have almost no little parts, that can be broken easily when cutted from the sprue, the plastic is thik and solid and some model kits like the carnifex only consist of 10 parts per build! These ARE beginner models in my opinion, so when do you expect someone to learn building kits when you take everything from them? I screwed up at least 50 model kits in my career (beginning as a 11 year old child) but nowadays I would consider myself a pro.. why? Because I had the possibility to learn. I think it is a bad idea to take that away from children.
I remember my very first kit.. oh how badly did I paint it and how bad was the result but it was such a pleasure for me, sitting there with my father, laughing.. trying not to break those little parts.. he being there always watching carefully, teaching me to hold those extremely sharp scalpells right, so I would not hurt myself. These are times I wish to every little boy buying a model kit and not going to the store and saying "My Father doesn't want do spend time with me.. would you construct the kit for me?" Of course.. nobody forces you to go to GW and let them assemble the model for you, but the lack of this possibility perhaps forces your parents to watch your shoulder while handling with those sharp thingies. Because of that they will spend some time with you!

Cane
02-05-2009, 13:56
So this isn't an extra service that you have to pay for? Its just done for you?! It would really suck to work during the holidays with this kind of job.

monkeymatt
02-05-2009, 14:09
I don't know how GW expects they will have time to do this if it is as successful as they want it to be. Perhaps they are expecting the staff to take these things home and work on them in their spare time? :eyebrows:

Wait a minute...Staff have SPARE time! *Calls up head office to make sure Staff are working 24 hours a day*

On topic now, I don't think it is a good Idea as when I was a kid I wanted the big things but knew I would screw it up when making it, Because of this me and my Dad proabley have a better relationship, It's all about growing up IMO.

EDIT:I agree with you Max Jet.

sheck2
02-05-2009, 14:12
It' a good business idea..services like building, converting, painting, etc. will improve the hobby. And are generally more profitable than product.

I completely dis-agree with those folks who think new players should be hazed and have to go through the same 'hard-knocks' we did.

The easier, the faster, and the better we bring others to adequate skill levels and / or having the 'right' stuff to play...the greater and more enjoyable our hobby (assemblying, converting, painting, playing, etc.) will be.

However, pushing this to under-staffed GW hobby centers is doomed to fail and kill a good GW value added enhancement.

RCgothic
02-05-2009, 14:14
I think this is too much of a burden to put on the staff. They already have extremely heavy workloads for not enough pay.

If the customer really can't be arsed to do it themselves then they should be pointed in the direction of a professional painting service.

Fredox
02-05-2009, 14:23
How will this work with one man stores? I'm assuming the USA has them.

Templar Ben
02-05-2009, 14:44
I am normally a bit critical of GW but I must say if you are paying full retail this is a good service to add.

Harry
02-05-2009, 14:55
"A bit critical" :D

spetswalshe
02-05-2009, 14:58
Speaking as someone who did not have a father on hand to help me put together models - and a mother who worked 16 hours a day - this would definately have kept me involved for longer. Painting was (and is still) a challenge, but a much more enjoyable one than gluing something together and removing mould lines. I mean, at best your model will look like it does on the box. That doesn't give much of a sense of acheivement, not compared to painting it (and hence it being made uniquely yours), anyway.

Of course, with less complicated kits like infantry, a lot of the fun was putting them in different poses, etc., as opposed to kits without much in the way of choice like a tank. Cleaning mould lines is still a chore, and not something I'd expect a young person to go all the way with - hence why my old High Elf Spearmen are only properly de-moulded on the first few models - but they'll see how much difference it makes, and that it doesn't actually take long.

I'm assuming there will be some kind of framework in place to give staff time to perform this service. I also think that GW models are already pretty far from an instant graticifation object to begin with, and they have to compete somehow.

Duke Georgal
02-05-2009, 15:16
This makes sense.

Plastic model building is a dying hobby.

Does anybody remember 20-25 years ago when every toy store had an extensive plastic model section, and a model railroading section. These hobbys/pastimes/toys all required a skill set that required a learning curve.

My dad taught me how to build plastic models 35 years ago. I taught my son-in-law as much as he wanted to learn. He builds Rhinos with ease now. However, I doubt he will ever build an accurate 1/35 Tamiya model of a PzKfwIVausfH with individual track links. Serious scale plastic model building is fading fast.

How many of you who build your own models have a collection of styrene plastic strip, special shapes, and embossed sheet? Do you have a full set of wire gauge drill bits? Brass tubing on hand? 2000 grit sandpaper? Have you ever looked into the plastic detail parts (gears, bolts, etc.) offered by Grandt Line? Have you developed the skills necessary to use a Dremel Moto-Tool effectively?

Games Workshop probably knows that in less than a generation there might not be anybody available to mentor kids on how to assemble a styrene platic model kit.

There is another possible problem...

I have taught a few kids how to assemble GW kits. Those kids also see my collection of scale plastic models I have in display cases. Some of these are really cool, and most kids have never seen a skillfully assembled and finshed model of a classic car or WWII armored fighting vehicle. Some of these kids drifted from GW models into serious scale modeling.

GW kits require no special skills to assemble and paint acceptably, but if a kid gets "bit" by the plastic model bug they could leave GW and not come back.

I think the offer to assemble models for a true newbie is a good idea.

Stormy
02-05-2009, 15:47
Its a good idea, it will stop the kiddies having wonky tanks.

Pokpoko
02-05-2009, 16:05
it's...well, i'v got really mixed feelings-yeah, it'll probably be good for the kids in the short run,but...in the end, you still get a lot of manually-incompetent players,who simply can't put together even the most basic kits(GW kits are The basic really) for lack of any experience...and how can they gain experinece,if everything's done for them?

Netherghoul
02-05-2009, 16:06
retarded action imho, spoonfeed the kids even more.
maybe rent a redshirt to build up the army too, and oh wait let him play the game for the kid too?! :P

cool0001
02-05-2009, 16:16
I like it if you're doing a 6 valk Guard army then getting someone else to build one would be good and help get rid of the bordom of doing the same thing 6 times in a row.

Mannimarco
02-05-2009, 16:18
i agree, bad idea

theres a greater sense of satisfaction in building your won models as well, just seems more perosnal that way

Brother_Chaplian Raimo
02-05-2009, 16:54
(We didn't all grow up on Airfix kits ... although I did. :D)

*raises fist*
Represent! Revell, Tamiya, Dragon...,man, brings back memories...

Harry
02-05-2009, 16:58
*raises fist*
Represent! Revell, Tamiya, Dragon...,man, brings back memories...

Built more than a few Tamiya models in my time. Nothing new about multi pose plastic. Happy days.

JLBeady
02-05-2009, 17:39
Guys, I think some of you are really making a mountain out of a mole hill and seeing a slippery slope that will lead to a weaker hobby. It is not the end of the world. It seems like a great promotion, especially for younger hobbyists. By the way, I stand corrected on one thing. The promotion is any plastic kit including battle forces (I thought it was single units).

BrotherOfBrass
02-05-2009, 19:51
This is a cracking idea as it makes the hobby more immeadiately accessible. I'm also surprised to hear that it may lead to the loss of certain skills. Are the staffers under instruction not to explain what they are doing and how they are doing it? As a child I always wanted to know how things were done rather than rely on always having someone there to do it for me and so I believe that having someone demonstrate how to assemble a kit, particularly if it is your first can only be a good thing.

Also this hobby of ours is not cheap and getting more expensive. If you were to spend £25 on ten plastic figures and make a hash of assembling them, there is a greater chance that you would view this hobby as a waste of time and money. If they were made up for you, you may be more likely to see the value (and I use the term lightly) of the product.

Just my tuppence.

LonelyPath
02-05-2009, 20:03
A nice idea for people who lack the time or physical ability to assemble things, but I prefer to assemble things myself, it's half the fun.

Templar Ben
02-05-2009, 21:04
"A bit critical" :D

Was I selling myself short? ;)

Nephilim of Sin
02-05-2009, 21:13
A nice idea for people who lack the time or physical ability to assemble things, but I prefer to assemble things myself, it's half the fun.

As do I, but..... four battalions of the last O&Gs, 2 Battalions of the newer ones, and an army box later and I realize that I wouldn't mind having on of those professional assembled to help me save time. I could always convert them later.

Also, were I painting in a shop, I would rather be painting something than assembling another Devilfish which doesn't require any conversion. I just can see how it can help, even for those of use that love building/converting more than painting.

boogle
02-05-2009, 21:20
I think it would be more beneficial to have this as a 'build your big models day', where the staff assist you to build it, but don't do the whole thing for you, I've never had help with any of my model kits, from 1/75 matchbox tanks up to FW Baneblades, the only cock-up i remember making was putting the legs on the plastic sentinel the wrong way round at 4am, whilst drunk

stroller
02-05-2009, 21:33
I pay my son (in kind) to build and paint my figures. I don't feel I'm losing out. He sure doesnt as he get more figures himself that way.

So - why not? It's not a sin. This hobby is what you make it. Or in this case what the staffer makes it. I'd be up for it, and get in more gaming time.

darkace77450
02-05-2009, 21:51
There's nothing more to say.

Or there is. If a kid is to young to be able to put a tank or other model together he is also to young to play the game. IMO.

This is exactly what I was thinking. If a kid is too young or impatient to have the motor and coordination skills to assemble a Lemun Russ tank then he is probably too young to grasp the concept of a strategy game or have the patience to learn all the rules and fully enjoy the hobby. A kid this young will in all likeliness view the hobby as playing with army men, in which case a bag of said army men (the little green plastic ones) would suit him better.

If his hobby experience starts off with instant gratification, then when he does have to assemble that challenging tank down the line he may say "screw it" and move on to something else. Assembling (not so) complicated models can act as sort of a screening process to weed out all the people who aren't going to stick around the hobby for any period of time anyway.




it's...well, i'v got really mixed feelings-yeah, it'll probably be good for the kids in the short run,but...in the end, you still get a lot of manually-incompetent players,who simply can't put together even the most basic kits(GW kits are The basic really) for lack of any experience...and how can they gain experinece,if everything's done for them?


retarded action imho, spoonfeed the kids even more.
maybe rent a redshirt to build up the army too, and oh wait let him play the game for the kid too?! :P


I think it would be more beneficial to have this as a 'build your big models day', where the staff assist you to build it, but don't do the whole thing for you, I've never had help with any of my model kits, from 1/75 matchbox tanks up to FW Baneblades, the only cock-up i remember making was putting the legs on the plastic sentinel the wrong way round at 4am, whilst drunk

If it were a build-a-tank day where the staff walks everyone through the paces like boogle said, then this would be a much better idea imho. Sort of a teach-a-kid-to-fish vs give-them-a-fish thing. If it is just "leave it here and we'll assemble it for you when we can" thing then it can't be good for the hobby.

To some this is just a game, but to others it is a hobby. The hobby side can suffer when things start heading this direction. The day I see GW advertise a "we'll paint it for you" or "they come prepainted" is the day the hobby I got into is truly dead. This takes us one step, even if it is a small one, closer to that day.

And with all the staff already have on their plate, not least of which is pressure from up high to sell more, I predict many a mold line will be unfilled during this promotion even if advertised otherwise.




I must try this concept with my wife with regard to beer. She buys it and I drink it :angel:


:D

I have many friends that are trying the reverse concept, they earn the money and their wives spend it. ;)

Alfie
02-05-2009, 22:10
This is exactly what I was thinking. If a kid is too young or impatient to have the motor and coordination skills to assemble a Lemun Russ tank then he is probably too young to grasp the concept of a strategy game or have the patience to learn all the rules and fully enjoy the hobby. A kid this young will in all likeliness view the hobby as playing with army men, in which case a bag of said army men (the little green plastic ones) would suit him better.

If his hobby experience starts off with instant gratification, then when he does have to assemble that challenging tank down the line he may say "screw it" and move on to something else. Assembling (not so) complicated models can act as sort of a screening process to weed out all the people who aren't going to stick around the hobby for any period of time anyway.

If it were a build-a-tank day where the staff walks everyone through the paces like boogle said, then this would be a much better idea imho. Sort of a teach-a-kid-to-fish vs give-them-a-fish thing. If it is just "leave it here and we'll assemble it for you when we can" thing then it can't be good for the hobby.

To some this is just a game, but to others it is a hobby. The hobby side can suffer when things start heading this direction. The day I see GW advertise a "we'll paint it for you" or "they come prepainted" is the day the hobby I got into is truly dead. This takes us one step, even if it is a small one, closer to that day.





I have to disagree with some of this.

For example, I dislike building the models, i find that i am impatient when doing this. However, i really like painting the models (in fact i dont play, just paint) and am happy spending a long time on one model (not that the results reflect this ;)). This service would suit me to the ground if i was buying a large model.

The 'hobby' also has a range of aspects to it, each of which people enjoy to different levels. Because people get assistance in some parts that they either dislike or arent good at then fair enough.

Also, as others have mentioned, painting services have been around for years. Arguably this has more of an impact on teh hobby that a service to build models.

Though, i do agree that an open day to assist people build models is a good idea.

stroller
02-05-2009, 22:13
What arrogant errant nonsense....

If a kid is too young or impatient to have the motor and coordination skills to assemble a Lemun Russ tank then he is probably too young to grasp the concept of a strategy game or have the patience to learn all the rules and fully enjoy the hobby. A kid this young will in all likeliness view the hobby as playing with army men, in which case a bag of said army men (the little green plastic ones) would suit him better.

So what next - if a kid is too young or impatient to have the motor and coordination skills to spell a LEMAN Russ tank properly, they're probably better off going "broom broom bang I got you"... and not bringing their pusillanimous views into this debate...

Where DO you draw the line? I'm 48. I remember being 8, and playing toy soldiers in the garden. I remember it being fun too. And for me - that's what this hobby is about.

Nephilim of Sin
02-05-2009, 22:27
What arrogant errant nonsense....

If a kid is too young or impatient to have the motor and coordination skills to assemble a Lemun Russ tank then he is probably too young to grasp the concept of a strategy game or have the patience to learn all the rules and fully enjoy the hobby. A kid this young will in all likeliness view the hobby as playing with army men, in which case a bag of said army men (the little green plastic ones) would suit him better.

I remember being just a few years older than that, and just got into miniatures. After putting a few together, I sliced my hand pretty good, taking a chunk out of it. Years later, I have pretty good motor skills now, and there are still cases where I knick myself pretty good. That is with handling tools safely.

I also remember being young, having a full grasp of the rules, loving the strategy element, and completely supergluing Nagash to my fingers, long-ways. That was an experience, and at times I have messed up with the superglue even as an adult. Guess I am better off with plastic army men then...:rolleyes:

Papa JJ
02-05-2009, 22:39
If this were my business I too would want to assist any new customers and help them get the most out of their purchases. Although I don't envy the extra work that will be required of the employees, I think this is both good business sense and also a useful courtesy for those younger players. If the game is rewarding enough then they will stick around and at some point being doing the assembly themselves.

Natura
03-05-2009, 12:27
and we move one step closer to the pre-painted models (from the hobby side).


To which I say: so what? I see pre-painted models as a terrific step forwards for the hobby.

The simple fact is that many players have neither the time, willpower or ability to paint up their armies. They want to play the game, and show up with their unpainted/basecoated army and do just that. Giving them the option to instead buy models that are pre-painted allows them to field a reasonable looking army as well. Any player who has seen, or created, a fully painted army knows that it's a great thing to have.

If you're deathly worried that GW would then phase out unpainted minis, take a good hard look at the facts first. Unpainted models need paint brushes and paints, both of which are supplied by GW. Removing this aspect of their business would make no sense. Pre-painted minis would naturally be sold at a higher price to cover this, which would lead to people tight for funds buying unpainted. There already exist (and will continue to exist) far too many people playing GW products who enjoy the painting aspect, or who collect purely for modeling purposes, for unpainted minis to vanish.

With regards to the pre-assembling, whilst I sympathize with overworked employees in any profession, offering this service does make financial sense for GW, and provides newcomers to the hobby with potentially valuable experience. Consider that the person wishing the assembly done could very easily watch the process. Many of us learned the hard way how to assemble our, at times, quite complicated vehicles; having an expert there to guide you through it makes things a lot smoother and shows you how best to do it yourself.

Natura
03-05-2009, 12:40
To some this is just a game, but to others it is a hobby. The hobby side can suffer when things start heading this direction. The day I see GW advertise a "we'll paint it for you" or "they come prepainted" is the day the hobby I got into is truly dead. This takes us one step, even if it is a small one, closer to that day.


I really don't understand this attitude. Did farmers lament the coming of the combine harvester, wailing that it took all the craftsmanship and honest labour out of reaping grain? Did housewives bemoan the vacuum or washing machine, weeping that now the housework would be far too easy to be considered work at all?

Labour saving devices do just that: make things easier. If you are so against them, why are you buying your miniatures at all? Buy some lead and get casting; that's REAL hobby work. Using pre-bought paints? Poser. REAL hobbyists seek out natural ingredients and craft their own. And if you even consider using a manufactured paintbrush, as opposed to one crafted from hand picked hairs and mounted in a receptacle of wood you personally sculpted from a tree you felled, then all I can say is this hobby is not for you.

Duke Georgal
03-05-2009, 12:48
I'm also surprised to hear that it may lead to the loss of certain skills. Are the staffers under instruction not to explain what they are doing and how they are doing it? As a child I always wanted to know how things were done rather than rely on always having someone there to do it for me and so I believe that having someone demonstrate how to assemble a kit, particularly if it is your first can only be a good thing.

I did not mean to suggest this would lead to a loss of skills. I was saying that in general modelling skills are disappearing from the mass of young boys. This lack of skills (or available adult help) could be responsible for some loss of sales. Certainly a kid could learn from this program, and that will increase future sales. I hope the kids do learn as much as they can.

Kids seem to be less curious these days. When I was 10-12 years old and a neighbor was working on his car I was over there and in it. I wanted to know everything about cars. When I have the hood open on my classic, the kids are not interested at all. You could not have kept me away when I was young.

Anyway, I still think the "you buy it we build it" promotion is a good idea,

Fire Harte
03-05-2009, 13:00
Maybe if the staffer/employee/GW regular sat down with the child and ran through the assembly and all of that yet still managed to get the kid's hand's stuck in then I'm all for it!

Ah yes this is already done isn't it? I believe I have had one or two lessons with the staffers myself.

But just building it for them doesn't brood well with me...

boogle
03-05-2009, 13:04
Maybe if the staffer/employee/GW regular sat down with the child and ran through the assembly and all of that yet still managed to get the kid's hand's stuck in then I'm all for it!

Ah yes this is already done isn't it? I believe I have had one or two lessons with the staffers myself.

But just building it for them doesn't brood well with me...

My thoughts exactly, when i was a staff member we did our best to dissuade young kids from spending £35 on the metal balrog on the premise that they would find it too hard to build it, as we found it a massive pain in the backside to do, I know at my store the staff will help with construction, but not do all of the work for them.

Lewis
03-05-2009, 13:25
Are we allowed to watch them build it? Are we allowed to stand over them yelling "Work faster you dog!"

A guy at my local store was dressed as a Catachan on IG release day (despite possessing the least Catachan physique in the world). I might dress as Commander Chenkov for this promotion and summararily execute GW staff members who fail to produce a model to my specification. After all there's plenty more where they came from.

Send in the next wave!

boogle
03-05-2009, 15:12
which isn't too hard due to the fact that working for GW ian't worth anything these days

ToXin
03-05-2009, 15:53
A model SOLD with the added incentive that a person doesn't have to buy everything else to try to asemble it at home is still a model SOLD.

Whether the person is a new cutomer or existing is irrelevent, I don't recall any criteria that defines whether they should be 'allowed' to purchase complex models that may be beyond expertise either...

It's a SOLD model, whatever.

thinkerman
03-05-2009, 15:53
Its 1 more step towards pre-painted - i wouldnt be surprised if eventually your able to buy painted units from stores painted by the staff for an over the top price

With the easy of having it built etc kids are more likely to drop the hobby in favour of the newest fad

phoenixlaw
03-05-2009, 16:00
Its 1 more step towards pre-painted - i wouldnt be surprised if eventually your able to buy painted units from stores painted by the staff for an over the top price

With the easy of having it built etc kids are more likely to drop the hobby in favour of the newest fad

Some Indies already do this. Its not necessarily a bad thing.

Lewzardman
03-05-2009, 16:46
I personally much prefer having something that I have built, and painted on my own. I find it much more satisfying seeing my miniatures on the shelf and thinking "Theres something I made and painted" than "I remember when I bought that pre-painted and pre-built".

To me it makes it seem more a toy than a miniature if it were to come already done for you, but i enjoy the hobby side of it first as well as the gaming side. Pure gamers I can understand would like to be able to just take things out of the box and get cracking.

boogle
03-05-2009, 18:51
Sadly this isn't GW's fault it's the fault of the 'want it now and done for me' generation that has sprouted up

Nephilim of Sin
03-05-2009, 19:08
Its 1 more step towards pre-painted - i wouldnt be surprised if eventually your able to buy painted units from stores painted by the staff for an over the top price

With the easy of having it built etc kids are more likely to drop the hobby in favour of the newest fad

What? How is this a step towards prepainted? Is GW going to start releasing models that don't require any assembly, because that would be a step towards prepainted. Wait......they already have. Skull Pass, AoBR, and almost all the plastics for 4th/5th Warhammer and 2nd 40k. I think they still have some snap-fit models on their webstore somewhere.

This isn't the death of the hobby, this isn't a step to prepaints. This actually, to me, seems more like a step back to the old days of GW, where it was more hobby-centered. Instead of just selling you a model, they are offering to build it. Offering, it doesn't mean they will pry it out of your hand at the till and demand to do it themselves. Was that their intent? No, obviously it is about getting people to the store, and getting models sold. Which is good for everyone. Buy a battleforce? Since it will be built, people would probably buy something else to work on in the meantime. If there was a GW around me, I know I for one would be more than willing to stop by it now and pay retail, since they are actually trying to offer a hobby service again.

As for the whole 'latest fad' thing that people keep mentioning, honestly, the kids that are going to do that already do, and will continue. There are kids everyday who jump into the hobby, try it out for even a few years, and see that it is not for them. We have vets that are doing the same.

Bookwrak
03-05-2009, 19:26
Sadly this isn't GW's fault it's the fault of the 'want it now and done for me' generation that has sprouted up

The odd thing is that it's posts like yours that _really_ come off as being whiny.

"GW is doing something I don't personally agree with and that makes it WRONG!" :cries: :cries: :cries:

Laser guided fanatic
03-05-2009, 19:30
Sadly this isn't GW's fault it's the fault of the 'want it now and done for me' generation that has sprouted up

Oh blame the infamous 8/10/12 year olds it's always their fault :O

Why haven't GW gone bust? Kids.

See always their fault.

darkace77450
03-05-2009, 22:49
I really don't understand this attitude. Did farmers lament the coming of the combine harvester, wailing that it took all the craftsmanship and honest labour out of reaping grain? Did housewives bemoan the vacuum or washing machine, weeping that now the housework would be far too easy to be considered work at all?

Labour saving devices do just that: make things easier. If you are so against them, why are you buying your miniatures at all? Buy some lead and get casting; that's REAL hobby work. Using pre-bought paints? Poser. REAL hobbyists seek out natural ingredients and craft their own. And if you even consider using a manufactured paintbrush, as opposed to one crafted from hand picked hairs and mounted in a receptacle of wood you personally sculpted from a tree you felled, then all I can say is this hobby is not for you.

You are comparing manual labor to a recreational hobby. People don't buy and assemble models because they are easy. They do it because it if fun or challenging or rewarding. Labor saving devices aren't wanted; the labor is what attracts people to the model assembling hobby in the first place.

That said, not everyone that wargames does so with an interest in the modeling/painting aspect of the hobby; and I do appreciate this. Some people are drawn to the hobby purely for the gaming or camaraderie aspect and don't want to be bothered with spending time assembling or painting models and would jump at the chance to have their assembling done for them free of charge.




What arrogant errant nonsense....

If a kid is too young or impatient to have the motor and coordination skills to assemble a Lemun Russ tank then he is probably too young to grasp the concept of a strategy game or have the patience to learn all the rules and fully enjoy the hobby. A kid this young will in all likeliness view the hobby as playing with army men, in which case a bag of said army men (the little green plastic ones) would suit him better.

So what next - if a kid is too young or impatient to have the motor and coordination skills to spell a LEMAN Russ tank properly, they're probably better off going "broom broom bang I got you"... and not bringing their pusillanimous views into this debate...

Where DO you draw the line? I'm 48. I remember being 8, and playing toy soldiers in the garden. I remember it being fun too. And for me - that's what this hobby is about.

Debating my point of view is welcomed, but try to do it with something more substantial than criticizing my spelling or using non-applicable words (what in my post was pusillanimous?). :rolleyes:

You are missing my point. It isn't about age so much as maturity. I have seen kids 12 years old who were more than mature enough to learn how to assemble and paint an army, write a proper list, and understand the rules. I have seen kids 16 who were immature enough to mix up a wad of green stuff then proceed to cram it up their nose.

I have seen a kid no more than 13 years old at a Grand Tournament who was allowed to enter without even having written or submitted an army list and had to write one up at the table after being seated for his first game. And I have seen 13 year old kids who were able to paint better than the vast majority of us in the hobby.

The hobby is meant to be fun, but it is not meant for everyone. Some people are in the hobby one week and out of it a month later. That doesn't really do anyone any good, with the exception of a quick impulse buy for GW's bottom line. GW needs to focus on how to recruit and retain the people who their games are intended for, and not selling a starter set to every Timmy whose mom is willing to buy him one.

If GW wants to return to prosperity then they need to stop targeting the ADD kids and start recruiting long-term hobbyist and treating veterans like they appreciate them. From where I sit, and please don't construe my posts are arrogant or condescending, GW needs to stop selling little kids games and start selling strategy gamers and painters/modelers a hobby.

To draw this back on topic, if you want to buy a tank and have it assembled for you buy someone else, more power to you. I just think that GW is, to again play upon an old proverb, giving a man a fish with this promotion. If you want to train fishermen, you teach them how to fish. If you want to build hobbyists, you teach them how to assemble and paint their models, not do it for them.

I'm sure there are as many people who only enjoy playing the actual games of 40k and WFB, just as there are some that build and paint the minis without playing at all. You don't have to like or participate in all areas of the hobby to enjoy yourselves. But to me this promotion feels more like a pitch to little kids whose parents are ignorant to what their child is getting into or unwilling to help their kid in his hobby endeavors more so than a perk to those legitimate hobbyist who just want their models ready to play as soon as possible.

If this offends anyone or comes across as arrogant, that is not my intention. That is just the way I see things. You are free, of course, to disagree with me and tell me why you do so. But try not to put me down by telling me I misspelled a fictional model of a tank in a fictional universe. ;)

Emperor's Grace
04-05-2009, 02:45
Even with over ten years in, I still find cleaning mold lines tedious.

I wonder if they'd just cut them out and clean them but leave assembly to me? :)

Maybe the extra staff/time is funded by selling the unused bits onto the secondary market?

venus_redscar
04-05-2009, 04:29
They are running a super special Christmas program if this succeeds. You buy it, we play it.

People buy the figures, and the GW staff play the games for them.

Very cutting edge. Ahead of the market curve.

Did anyone point out must of these models need to be partially assembled, painted, then finished?

spaint2k
04-05-2009, 05:00
You are comparing manual labor to a recreational hobby. People don't buy and assemble models because they are easy. They do it because it if fun or challenging or rewarding. Labor saving devices aren't wanted; the labor is what attracts people to the model assembling hobby in the first place.

I personally find removing mould lines to be manual labour. It makes my hands cramp terribly and I find it tedious and irritating in the extreme.

Steve

Hellebore
04-05-2009, 06:07
The odd thing is that it's posts like yours that _really_ come off as being whiny.

"GW is doing something I don't personally agree with and that makes it WRONG!" :cries: :cries: :cries:

It's a fact that attention spans have plummetted amongst people in the last 20 years. Attention defecit disorder has sprung up in many (but not all cases) because parents are just not interacting with their children enough or teaching them anything.

The instant gratification generation is not personal opinion.

When someone throws a tanty because the computer takes 2 minutes longer then they are willing to wait for it to load, or when it takes them a hour longer to put together a miniature, it's pathetic.

Patience isn't a virtue, but demanding something without effort isn't either.

I fall victim to this myself. I have no patience for people with the attention span of a gnat.

From a business perspective I don't know if this particular endeavour will actually work or not. GW's staff will be flooded by kids who don't want to do it themselves and a fair few adults that cite completely 'grown up' reasons for not wanting to do it themselves in an effor to not look lazy.

GW probably won't get positive feedback from their staff for this either. I'm sure the staff weren't asked their opinion on whether they would like to build 20 tactical squads every day for other people.

Then there is the risk of not 'getting it right' and parents demanding refunds because little Jimmy's toy soldiers don't have their guns pointing the right direction.

For these reasons I can't see it lasting very long, no matter how 'good' it might look on first inspection.

Hellebore

__ALEX__
04-05-2009, 06:52
As a business strategy I think it's very sound, it gives people more incentive to a) buy models and b) buy from a GW store where the service is available, rather than an indy or ebay (i.e. pay full retail price). It will also encourage the fairweather players since there is less work involved to get a playable army together.

I do however think this will increase the number of 10 year old's with baneblades and leman russ formations in GW stores, but since I wouldn't go for a GW store looking for a game then this isn't really an issue for me - but it might be an issue for some people.

As regards the 'hobby side' of things, I think it takes away a very important part of the experience, but not everyone is a dedicated hobbyist who wants to assemble, convert, paint etc every model they own.

To whoever used the farmer/combine harvester and housewife/vacuum analogy earlier - there's a difference between getting a tool to make your job done more easily, and getting someone else to do it for you.

Pokpoko
04-05-2009, 09:37
you know, apart from the whole fish/rod thing...how do they expect those poor chaps to keep up with it? if it's one LR a day,they could probably manage,but if it's more, they either have to do it in the buisness hours, and it's one less staffer in the shop(because he's doing a soviet labor camp on the modelling table with Timmy's/Johnny's valkyries all day),or they do it in their own time,after the shop closes,which is deplorable practice.Or am i missing something?

Sirroelivan
04-05-2009, 09:46
Hmm, battleforces as well? That's quite an amount of work.

I see no problem with it though, as not everyone does and has to enjoy every part of the hobby, I just feel a bit sorry for the staff who has to do it all.

boogle
04-05-2009, 11:16
Thanks for the expansion of my post Hellebore, if people actually read what i said, even after quoting it, they would notice that i said i don't blame GW for this in any way shape of form.

Furthermore i never said i didn't agree with the premise of the idea, rather i offered an option that would allow GW staff to offer the HELP the kids build the models that they own, rather then do it all for them, after all, 'watch, then copy' helps them a lot more than 'hand over and go off and play a game with the models you have' which could very well happen.

Personally the ideal conversation should go:

Staff member: i see you'e bought this Leman Russ, what i can do is sit down with you and help you build it, i'll do one half of the track assembly, you watch me and do the other half, then once you've got the hang of it, you can finish it off, but i'll be around if you need a hand'

Funnily enough that's exactly what i and my fellow staffers used to do on Beginners Sunday, and a lot of kids and early teenagers actually turned out to be very good hobbyists, because they actually learned how to build the kits, rather than one of us sitting putting a load of model kits learning nothing about the model building side, whilst everyone else is gaming.

Hlokk
04-05-2009, 11:39
I think its a great idea as long as the staffers actually show the kids how to do it and its not a case of "here's a baneblade, I'm off to Adsa, I'll be back in an hour".

It does 2 things:
1: It gets the kids to actually see how to do things properly rather than bodging them at home and then crying because the marines they put together have an arm coming out of the **** and a pair of legs where the face should be.
2: It gives the kids an idea of what decently built models should look like so when Timmy gets that box of marines for Christmas, he actualy has an example built by someone who knows what their doing to go and look at hence avoiding him having a marine armed with a backpack and a spare head.

However, it does need to be implemented properly. Maybe by only offering it on beginners days (weekends and slow days during the holidays). However, knowing GW is run by crack addicted chimps wearing blindfolds and driving unicycles, it won't be done properly. If it is implemented in a way that doesnt cause a massive amount of problems, I will youtube myself eating my own ****.

boogle
04-05-2009, 13:11
I think its a great idea as long as the staffers actually show the kids how to do it and its not a case of "here's a baneblade, I'm off to Adsa, I'll be back in an hour".

It does 2 things:
1: It gets the kids to actually see how to do things properly rather than bodging them at home and then crying because the marines they put together have an arm coming out of the **** and a pair of legs where the face should be.
2: It gives the kids an idea of what decently built models should look like so when Timmy gets that box of marines for Christmas, he actualy has an example built by someone who knows what their doing to go and look at hence avoiding him having a marine armed with a backpack and a spare head.

However, it does need to be implemented properly. Maybe by only offering it on beginners days (weekends and slow days during the holidays). However, knowing GW is run by crack addicted chimps wearing blindfolds and driving unicycles, it won't be done properly. If it is implemented in a way that doesnt cause a massive amount of problems, I will youtube myself eating my own ****.

My thoughts exactly, and if you do have to youtube yourself eating your own ****, then you'll probably get more hits that wassherface from Britain's Got Talent!!:p:p:D

sliganian
04-05-2009, 13:23
Stepping around any other debates, I wonder how the staff will handle this one:

Staff: "Here's your tank!"
Kid: "I don't like it. It's wrong."
Staff: *blink blink* "Nooo..... it is put together just like you said."
Kid: "No it ISN'T! I want Heavy Bolter sponsons!"
Staff: "No, you said here on this form...[hope to HELL they get the requests in writing!]...you wanted LasCannons."
Kid: "NOOOO!"
Parent: "Well can't you just fix it back?"

etc. etc.

Llew
04-05-2009, 13:53
While I feel for the staffers and the increased work load this is bound to place on them, anything that makes it easier for new players to get involved is a good thing.

GW desperately needs to make it easier for people to start playing their games. Frankly, I think they need core pre-paints, but that's a whole different debate.

Templar Ben
04-05-2009, 15:05
Stepping around any other debates, I wonder how the staff will handle this one:

Staff: "Here's your tank!"
Kid: "I don't like it. It's wrong."
Staff: *blink blink* "Nooo..... it is put together just like you said."
Kid: "No it ISN'T! I want Heavy Bolter sponsons!"
Staff: "No, you said here on this form...[hope to HELL they get the requests in writing!]...you wanted LasCannons."
Kid: "NOOOO!"
Parent: "Well can't you just fix it back?"

etc. etc.

They will offer to do it again if they purchase a new one. :angel:

Codsticker
04-05-2009, 16:01
In any other buisness it would be considered a Value Added service; generally regarded as a good idea as long as it increases sales. I'd take advantage of it especially if it was for my own army.

EvC
04-05-2009, 16:06
I'd love to get them to build me a Scraplauncher. I'd probably happily watch too :D

Mannimarco
04-05-2009, 16:07
am i the only person who feels a sense of pride and acomplishment looking down at models, built and painted by me?

models built and painted by sombody else? yeah they could be better than what i can do but i wouldnt get the same feeling of pride using them

Batwings
04-05-2009, 18:20
'If you want to train fishermen, you teach them how to fish. If you want to build hobbyists, you teach them how to assemble and paint their models, not do it for them.'

Here, here!

Llew
04-05-2009, 18:24
am i the only person who feels a sense of pride and acomplishment looking down at models, built and painted by me?

models built and painted by sombody else? yeah they could be better than what i can do but i wouldnt get the same feeling of pride using them

I do all my own building and painting. I hate the building, love the painting. And even if I were forced to buy from GW, I wouldn't use the service. I'm still more confident in my ability to put the model together the way I like than I am with some random staffer.

Of course, the amount of painting I do now is very, very low. As I age, my eyes are getting bad. It used to be nothing to paint for 12 hours. Now, within an hour I have eye pain and double vision, and that's *with* my reading glasses.

But not everyone plays the games because they like modelling. In fact, a lot of people don't like the modelling. They just want to play a cool miniatures wargame.

If GW really wants to take advantage of the market, they need to remove "barriers to entry" for their games. Since they've clearly decided to not remove price as a barrier, they desperately need to come up with incentives like this.

EDIT: Haven't you guys noticed that GW doesn't really want to build hobbyists, but just shake down people for cash and spit them out? Churn and burn is the thinking.

LordofLizardmen
04-05-2009, 19:20
This just shows that it is not worth money or time to collect GW stuff anymore. Overpriced and now even more. You still don't get to play it out of the box. I could buy more video games, stamps etc, with the money I could spend at GW trying to get a unit finished.

Codsticker
04-05-2009, 21:01
am i the only person who feels a sense of pride and acomplishment looking down at models, built and painted by me?



I don't mind the painting and I enjoy scratchbuilding but I'm not inspired enough to make time in my busy schedule to glue 100+ infantry together. Besides, I have already done enough of that...
...maybe when I am retired.

Duke Georgal
04-05-2009, 21:13
Out of curiosity:

Does GW classify their sales staff as service personnel on their Workers Compensation disclosure forms? I would hate to see what would happen if a sales staff member injured themselves with a hobby knife, on the clock, and was found to be misclassified by WC insurance.

Also, if a kid is watching, and the tip of a #11 blade comes off and enters their eye, is there coverage for that?

Building a model is infinitely more dangerous than rolling dice and pushing toys around a table.

I hope they thought this through.

Ben
04-05-2009, 22:28
I can picture a child telling a staff member "My daddy doesn't have time to make it with me, he's very busy." and the staff member going home and crying about some poor kids ruined childhood.

Templar Ben
04-05-2009, 23:03
Out of curiosity:

Does GW classify their sales staff as service personnel on their Workers Compensation disclosure forms? I would hate to see what would happen if a sales staff member injured themselves with a hobby knife, on the clock, and was found to be misclassified by WC insurance.

Also, if a kid is watching, and the tip of a #11 blade comes off and enters their eye, is there coverage for that?

Building a model is infinitely more dangerous than rolling dice and pushing toys around a table.

I hope they thought this through.

Wouldn't that have been an issue before now?

shadowskale
04-05-2009, 23:13
I must try this concept with my wife with regard to beer. She buys it and I drink it :angel:
Wise words indeed.

I think this is a BAD move by GW myself.
if you cant build a figure then your to young to be playing the game nuff said.

Sirroelivan
04-05-2009, 23:22
Not everyone does and has to enjoy every part of the hobby in order for them to participate. I remember I spend quite some time on assembling my WoC battalion in the holidays, however this was no problem, since I enjoyed it.

But if you don't like assembling stuff, I can imagine that people rather spend that time painting/playing/doing something else.

cool0001
04-05-2009, 23:35
Does this work with the apocalypse boxes like the space marine company or the new strikeforces? (starts checking dusty corners of Local Store for space marine companys)

Bluto
04-05-2009, 23:43
While I do have the standard reservations about staff time and work load, I think the rest of this is a fine idea.

Buying direct from GW is often at a premium cost, as all my local retailers, as well as online ones all sell at a discount below MSRP. So, what do I get out of paying full retail? My model built for me. No, it's probably still not enough of an incentive for me, but it might be for some.

If a few more people buy something because of this, that is good for everyone. More opponents, more profitable GW, etc.

As for the "pride in building your own" that is so important to some of the above posters, I have to say, rubbish. I own 4 Leman Russes. 3 of them I built myself, one was bought second hand already built. Now that they are all painted, I couldn't tell you which was which, to be honest - and what is more, I don't care. I painted them, they look good, and I'm more than proud to put them on the table. If someone wanted to build by next purchase for me, great. For myself, cost comes first, but assuming that was equal, I would not turn down a free build.

JLBeady
05-05-2009, 03:21
Don't be a hobby snob. Just because someone chooses to have someone else build or paint their models does not mean they are any less capable of enjoying the gaming aspect of the hobby. Just as there are those who do not enjoy gaming at all but enjoying strictly building and painting.

If you get maximum enjoyment out of this hobby by building, painting, and playing, great, I am happy for you. Allow others to seek fulfillment in the hobby in the way they choose.

GW's decision to try and offer a service like this doesn't mean we are on a slippery slope to the end of the true hobby, because this hobby has never been defined strictly by an individualís ability and build, paint, and play. Or are some of you saying that if you donít build, paint, and play you fail?

Personally, I am very tempted to buy a box and let the GW build it and turn around and let my two young children have a hand at painting them (or just pushing them around the table).

Poseidal
05-05-2009, 13:44
My memory is a bit hazy, but I do remember going into a GW store when I was about 12 or so and the staff offering to paint (or help paint) the blister of 4 Howling Banshees I bought (or maybe only one of them, can't remember that well).

I declined then, but was that dropped and is sort of re-emerging in a way here? Painting always takes me a lot longer than building though.

Ravenous
05-05-2009, 14:55
Its a good idea, it will stop the kiddies having wonky tanks.

Instead all the hard work the GW employee did will be covered by an ass paint job. You can polish a **** all you want but in the end its still a ****.

Im glad the Canadian stores decided against this, it seems more like slave labour IMO.

Eldorad
05-05-2009, 15:08
To be honest I like to build, but clipping and cleaning mold lines...?

Outsourcing that sort of job is full of win. If someone presented my with my valk pieces all clipped and cleaned up that would make my day.

Can still assemble it to my standard and paint, but don't have the mind numbing depression of cleaning shoddy mold work.

Duke Georgal
05-05-2009, 20:33
Hmmmm...

I don't mind cleaning mold lines.

If I bought a new Valkerie, took it off the sprue and cleaned all the parts... I wonder how much I could get for it on eBay as an "improved kit" for the lazy modeler?

Templar Ben
05-05-2009, 22:54
Many are paying full retail for that service. I presume you could sell it for that much.

Hellebore
06-05-2009, 02:48
So, buy 30% off from online retailer and sell for 100% RRP after assembly. You could make a pretty good profit on that so long as the construction times could be reduced.

Hellebore

Duke Georgal
06-05-2009, 10:20
I wouldn't build it, just get all the parts ready for assembly.

It would probably take about 90 minutes per kit.

I would need to sell it for 150% MSRP for it to be worth doing.

I doubt anyone would be that interested.

pyremius
06-05-2009, 16:42
A full box of minis cleaned and assembled? I think my friend will be kicking himself for a while over buying that Green Tide box a bit too early :)

Personally, if GW sold prepainted basic troopers I'd have happily purchased a few squads worth just to spend less time painting yellow marines. Of course, I'd have supplemented them with multiple command squads so I could have decent weapons, and a few extra poses, etc., etc. - but it would've meant about 40 less basic troops to paint, giving me more time to focus on the specialists and armor that I prefer painting anyhow.

finbob
06-05-2009, 19:42
I think it's a good idea. If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. Easy.

Emperor's Grace
06-05-2009, 20:13
90 minutes?

It takes me 4 hrs to clip and clean and 10 man tac squad.

Am I doing something wrong? Just too obsessive? Or just pacing badly work I don't enjoy? :D

Duke Georgal
06-05-2009, 20:38
90 minutes?

It takes me 4 hrs to clip and clean and 10 man tac squad.

Am I doing something wrong? Just too obsessive? Or just pacing badly work I don't enjoy? :D

Just guessing, but you probably use different tools than I do.

Squadron makes a tool for removing cast on rivets and other small details that is perfect for removing mold lines. It cut the time required in half.

For inside areas (like in inseams of trousers), I use a brass wire brush in a dremel moto-tool on low speed. So fast, so easy.

X-Acto also makes a line of blades for wood carving that look like loops. These fit in a special handle. They can be wonders at removing some mold lines and even unwanted details.

boogle
06-05-2009, 23:25
As a guy who has spent 2 hours today trimming up more IG, i can say that i hate the trimming aspect more than any other aspect, but still feel great pride in having all of those models ready for the next stage of the hobby process.

Emperor's Grace
07-05-2009, 21:04
Just guessing, but you probably use different tools than I do.

Squadron makes a tool for removing cast on rivets and other small details that is perfect for removing mold lines. It cut the time required in half.

For inside areas (like in inseams of trousers), I use a brass wire brush in a dremel moto-tool on low speed. So fast, so easy.

X-Acto also makes a line of blades for wood carving that look like loops. These fit in a special handle. They can be wonders at removing some mold lines and even unwanted details.

Yep, I still go "old school" :D with just a #11 blade (GW yellow and black slider from late 90's?) and a selection of steel needle files (bought in 1989).

I'll definitely try the dremel thing next Wednesday. TBH, it never occurred to me to use it for cleaning as I thought I'd damage the surrounding plastic. Maybe the brass wire makes the difference, eh? What rpm do you use?

I'll have to check around for the rivet tool. Might be a good excuse to order from Micromark...

Thanks much for the ideas!

Duke Georgal
08-05-2009, 00:52
TBH, it never occurred to me to use it for cleaning as I thought I'd damage the surrounding plastic. Maybe the brass wire makes the difference, eh? What rpm do you use?

I'll have to check around for the rivet tool. Might be a good excuse to order from Micromark.

The wire brush does in fact scratch the suface of surrounding plastic slightly. That is why I only use it on inside areas where it is not noticable. I use the slowest speed available. My dremel tool is a Roto-Zip motor with a flex shaft adapter. I have a foot pedal on/off switch. I have found by pumping the foot switch I can control the speed very well.

Oh... Use any excuse you can get to order from Micromark! I spend hours perusing their printed catalogues... dreaming... ahhh... such lovely ingenious tools.

Xarius
08-05-2009, 18:55
my dad wouldnt dream of letting me get staff to build a tank for me, we do that stuff together, not cos i cant but cos its a shared hobby we both are good at and enjoy. i know a staffer who has special needs kids and a wife with depression and no real chance of promotion beyond basic full timer. i would do the assembly for the stupid kid for him so that he could get on with everything else they need to do.

Duke Georgal
08-05-2009, 20:28
my dad wouldnt dream of letting me get staff to build a tank for me, we do that stuff together, not cos i cant but cos its a shared hobby we both are good at and enjoy. i know a staffer who has special needs kids and a wife with depression and no real chance of promotion beyond basic full timer. i would do the assembly for the stupid kid for him so that he could get on with everything else they need to do.

Three cheers for you and your father!

I love working on any project with my daughters.

swordwind
10-05-2009, 01:29
Do you guys think this is a good or bad move by GW?

Will staff be changing their diapers too? You wouldn't walk into debenams, go up to the checkout girl and say "yeah, I'd like these ridiculously overpriced jeans please. I'm a bit thick so if you could dress me, that'd be great" would you?

I was considering getting back into the hobby by running some kind of painting service but now I know where the real money is! Personal dice roller!

ctsteel
10-05-2009, 03:31
It's a good start to get people invested in using their models rather than buying them and leaving them on the shelf because it's too hard.

A better step would have been to make it so that the customer makes a 'booking' with a staff member, say in 30min blocks, where the staff member instructs the person how to assemble their model, taking over for difficult bits as necessary and explaining how to do it.

This would end up with the following outcome:
- Model gets built with the benefit of an experienced person advising
- The customer builds most/all of it themselves and can learn how to do the rest of their force
- The booking system keeps demand down to a manageable level
- Larger models, would be assembled over multiple bookings, which encourages the customer to come back (possibly spurring more impulse buying or just socialising and emotionally investing in the store/hobby)
- The customer can see the progress of their model, and feel pride in doing it themselves, without stressing about getting it 'wrong'.

Templar Ben
10-05-2009, 13:20
If we are teaching it may be worthwhile for GW to produce an hour long DVD to tell people how to remove mold lines, assemble large models, pin, and paint.

That would be crazy talk though I suppose.

monkeymatt
10-05-2009, 13:25
If we are teaching it may be worthwhile for GW to produce an hour long DVD to tell people how to remove mold lines, assemble large models, pin, and paint.

That would be crazy talk though I suppose.

That would become crazy talk when it goes to the GW Management, Gold DVD's all round!

boogle
10-05-2009, 14:08
Or why not utilise something like Youtube

Templar Ben
10-05-2009, 14:09
Can you imagine a nicely done DVD? They could even make shorter videos for each large model (Baneblade kit, Stompa kit, Cities of Death) and it would be available for free on the GW website for you to get a step by step on what to do and you can pause it until you get caught up.

That would be great for people at all skill levels and would teach instead of doing it for them.

Netherghoul
11-05-2009, 09:43
er why do you need dvds:s?
there are building constructions in the kit and there is internet too.
come on, people cant be that daft

Templar Ben
11-05-2009, 11:34
Because that is them reaching out and teaching.

PP started a DVD series. It shows clearly how to get the paint effects in a manner you will never get from stills. GW could one up them by having a free one or having the video for download.

FictionalCharacter
11-05-2009, 12:27
Will staff be changing their diapers too? You wouldn't walk into debenams, go up to the checkout girl and say "yeah, I'd like these ridiculously overpriced jeans please. I'm a bit thick so if you could dress me, that'd be great" would you?

I was considering getting back into the hobby by running some kind of painting service but now I know where the real money is! Personal dice roller!

it must be downright difficult to be as awesome as you think you are.

some people interested in the game may not have the time, motivation, or knowhow to want or be able to assemble some of their units. the game doesn't lose anything by them having this option, and why shouldn't they have it if it gives them some enjoyment and exposure to the hobby? you're still free to put your stuff together yourself, taking plenty of pauses to look down on casual gamers.

Templar Ben
11-05-2009, 12:47
Is this different than purchasing models off of eBay that are already assembled?

swordwind
11-05-2009, 16:22
Pro-Assembled?

Codsticker
11-05-2009, 18:05
I wonder if we would see adds for minis that PROASSEMBLED, PROPAINTED, NIB, NOS and OOP all at the same time?